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01:18
I don't think they are programming on a terminal called cancer...
 
2 hours later…
02:49
@NewPosts looks like there's a continuation at MSE...
0
Q: Why does stackoverflow choose the rightmost tag to feature in the HTML title, and sort tags in the opposite order in the question?

John HornerI asked a question about cron. I entered the following tags, in this order: cron cron-task time and that is in order of decreasing relevance; I only entered 'time' because I thought I should add at least three, just to be helpful. cron is very much the focus of my question. Now when I look at m...

 
1 hour later…
03:52
@VLAZ I want to report users on another site entirely for not upvoting my question.
 
2 hours later…
05:49
@CodyGray >member for 8 years, 9 months
 
4 hours later…
09:21
Recently I've been noticing a lot of questions where the code inappropriately has backslashes before square brackets (the OP isn't complaining of syntax errors or anything, so it presumably has just been posted incorrectly). Did something go wonky in the post editor again?
Square brackets only?
Or just inappropriate multiline code?
I've seen it relatively often recently that multiline code just...wasn't. And often it's something like:
`line1
line2
line3`
09:49
@KarlKnechtel Theory: text copied from Markdown mode and pasted into non-Markdown mode
superuser.com/questions/1770768 is superuser allergic to closing things as duplicates?
oh wait or:
that seems more plausible
ew.
that seems very much reportable as a bug.
I mean... no single thing it did there was wrong, by the design of the editor
I don't even know how you'd fix this without some very fundamental changes
The fundamental issue is that it's converting back and forth between Markdown and rich text on each switch
I guess actually you could probably remember whether a given bracket was escaped
that might help fix a lot of the more aggravating issues
it's almost 2am here though - if you want to write it up you're more than welcome to borrow those recordings
especially if you have real-world examples, which would make it more compelling
10:08
proposal: I should not get the "thanks for flagging!" banner when marking a question NLN when it gets auto-deleted (meeting the regex)
@RyanM The fundamental issue is with WYSIWYG editors. And yes, the incompatibility with "plain"/"raw"/notSureWhatTheNonWYSIWYGeditorsAreActuallyCalled editors. But WYSIWYG is a special hell case of its own. As it tries hard to keep track of intent but usually internally just keeps in in some sort of markup. Which can get mangled and corrupted while a user interacts with it absolutely normally.
The flipping does exacerbate the issue.
after playing around with it myself, I see that there isn't an obvious resolution
@KarlKnechtel You could probably have a userscript for that. Or just removing the flagging notification in general, regardless of flag.
indeed.
I really need to figure out that userscript thing at some point.
Proposal: remove "Markdown only" mode and add a warning dialog about "possible breaking change" every time a user wants to switch between WYSIWYG and "Markdown w/ preview" mode...
10:15
I've got an ugly userscript that's not "officially published" (need to do that at some point) that allows one-click flagging of comments. If you want to use it source is here | direct install is here
Adds buttons for NLN, U/U, and Rude to each comment. Also, you can queue up several flags. Known limitation: you need to keep the tab open until all flags are processed. Takes 5 seconds per flag (API limitation). The pending flags are yellow, processed ones turn red.
I've not "officially" published it because it needs a major re-write. I want to process flags cross-tab. But right now it's just one queue per tab. Which works in most cases. If you try to flag a lot of comments from multiple tabs, you still have to keep all of them open, though.
That and also I need to generate the proper StackApps documentation and stuff. And to be honest, I've been avoiding doing work outside of work lately. Hence why there hasn't been a lot of changes to it since (checks commit history) last June, apparently.
@KarlKnechtel BTW, just in case you weren't aware - there is a chat room for userscripts. Which sees activity occasionally but still. Also, over at StackApps for more general queries, not just userscripts. If you also have questions about the API or other things.
10:49
@VLAZ keeping the tab open is, I assume, only so that the highlighting works? because presumably it has already submitted the flag
11:28
0
Q: Should [meta] be a synonym for [meta-tags]?

A-TechProblem As of now, the tag is misused for question regarding Facebook/ different products by Facebook (aka. Meta. Given the relative recency of Facebook's rebranding, this issue is with newer questions.) the programming language r Proposed solution Make meta a synonym for meta-tags

@KarlKnechtel There is a queue where each quick flag is added to. It just retries until it can submit them. So if you close the tab, the queue is gone and thus all tasks on it. Which just means that you need to go back and re-add the flags.
Shouldn't be a huge issue. Unless you really go out to flag a lot of things. Like, if you do 10 flags, you need to wait 50 seconds with 5 seconds per flag.
The "known limitation" is mostly if you try to add 2-3 flags quickly and decide to close the tab immediately. Then 1-2 might not be submitted.
This is where I want to do a cross-tab queue but also couldn't be bothered to work on it. I've been using the script as-is since I've made it, mind you. Works well enough for my purposes. Which is reducing the RSI of trying to flag several comments in a row.
 
3 hours later…
14:10
0
Q: Help me improve my questions

Andreas SabelfeldI was banned from creating questions on StackOverflow as my prior questions apparently weren't fitting. I would be very glad if someone could take a look at them and tell me what exactly I should edit, or if someone is willing edit the question themself. I tried improving the questions myself, bu...

14:35
@NewPosts The scores are -1*2; 0*3; 1*1. Which is -1 on average. It's not a terrible track record. I've seen worse. A bit on the harsh side, perhaps. Although with that said, the six questions were in a short span. 5 of them within three days. The last one 10 days later.
Ah, my count seems to be off. OP edited at least two questions (well, I saw two) on 20th of February. Which lead to downvotes. One of the question I saw went from +2 to +2 / -2. The other got one downvote (forgot the total score with that). So, it seems the user did have a better track record before.
15:04
Isn't it possible to remove a tag and block/blacklist it from being created again?
Yes, but it has to go through the processes
blocklisting is a nuclear option. It's possible but there has to be a really good reason for it.
It takes dev time to add a tag to a blocklist. Also, I've been told it has performance cost associated with each new tag blocklisted. So, SE tries to avoid it when possible.
At the very least, the criteria is that the tag was burninated once and it was returned.
its about the meta tag
I assume you're asking for and it probably fits, IMHO.
yeah
im gonna add an answer proposing that then
15:44
@VLAZ really?
That's fucking stupid
@A-Tech that should just be synonymized to
@ZoestandswithUkraine I assume you're asking about the performance cost. In which case - I'm going off memory. And that's far from reliable for me.
but it needs to be cleaned up first
@TylerH it should not, at least not without cleanup
because many people use to refer to Facebook companies
15:45
@VLAZ yeah
@ZoestandswithUkraine I ninja'd you :-)
@TylerH Also meta programming. At least from a quick skim down the list.
fair, but that's also why we can't directly synonymise it
@ZoestandswithUkraine Yeah, I meant instead of blacklisting
not "just do this now and be done with the problem"
Ah, okay, that makes sense
15:46
sorry
all good. Miscommunication happens :p
TBH, I don't really see it as a good synonym for meta tags. There are more meta things out there. IIRC, it's also one of the core concepts of LISP. Being able to "meta-program" your program. To make it do more things without changing the code. At least, from what I remember.
There was at least one question I saw about Python. I've linked it in the comments. I don't know how much it applies to "meta" but it was an example of a question which had the tag before the tag was made for meta tags.
So, it seems there are quite a lot "meta" things. Not just the tags. Seems like a synonym would just mean people will be applying [meta-tags] to their questions which aren't about meta tags.
@VLAZ But the thing is the tag description is about meta tags
should we change the tag description and invalidate the, I dunno, 1000? questions that use the tag correctly?
@TylerH My point is that the description was done in lieu of the current usage at the time.
really? It was changed in a way that invalidated most existing questions with the tag, to be what its description is today?
15:51
@TylerH I mean 500. At most. 1.6k total, 1.1k don't have [html]. I'm not sure how many of those are about meta tags but at a guess - not a lot.
(I haven't looked, myself)
Check my last comment on the question.
@VLAZ You may be surprised how many questions about HTML don't include that tag... sadly
Oh, gets better... seems that tag was already removed. See revision #2 from 2012 (points to this MSE question but I get a 404 for it). Then in 2013 (revision #4) it was made to be about meta tags. I suspect the tag wiki update wasn't correct according to the usage at that point. So, it seems like nobody really cleared what the tag was about. A tag wiki was added but didn't match usages from before itVLAZ 3 hours ago
OK, so it was recreated in 2013 to be about <meta> tags.
That doesn't seem to conflict with its use today as being about <meta> tags
Prior to recreation, I am assuming all uses of it were removed
15:54
And a question from 2011 is about Python and not meta tags in HTML.
since they were ostensibly about MSO questions
The question from 2011 only has a single revision. So, the tag was never touched on it.
Also, that was just a random example I picked. See more.
So, like I said, it sounds like cleanup is needed regardless
@VLAZ if we can split the tag into general categories, we could get CMs involved
But they're apparently backlogged
@TylerH And figuring out what the tag should even be about. Somebody, apparently out of the blue, decided it's about HTML meta tags. Which the previous usage didn't support. And I'll take a guess but people haven't really kept to since 2013, either. I do not believe Meta Stack Overflow is used or should be used about HTML meta tags. Seems to be entangled into multiple concepts. From before somebody decided it's HTML, apparently.
To me the tag usage is clear as mud. Some words on a page don't actually seem to clarify it.
16:03
See my comment on the Meta question
Close to two months, though a CM has seen at least
i summarized the conses of the chat/comments to an answer, feel free to add to it/edit it
@A-Tech Typically someone creates a suggested steps answer once the question has reached some concensus
Currently there's no consensus and the question is... rather negatively scored
And if you are doing a non-CW answer to a tag cleanup question, it should probably be in the format of "here's what I recommend" rather than "here's what is happening for sure"
Uh...just brilliant: Django permission inheritance problem and Meta - the answer couldn't be more link-only.
And the next answer sounds like a weird thing a cryptic mythical creature might utter: "In my case explicitly inheriting the Meta didn't work because of South. "
I assume they don't mean the direction south. But, to be honest, who knows. I hope it's some sort of library.
16:17
Hard to tell, the ticket link is dead
Just found out, as well...
You guys clicked the link instead of flagging as NAA?
@VLAZ It's a tool
The URL is https://south.aeracode.org/ticket/211 which...clears nothing.
I've edited the question and that second answer
@VLAZ oh I thought you were talkigna bout the accepted answer
The accepted answer is the one which couldn't be more link-only.
16:20
@VLAZ There are 4 deleted questions if that changes your estimates.
@TylerH Archive.org link added (CC @VLAZ @aynber)
@HenryEcker Ah...um, forgot that questions could be deleted for a moment.
@TylerH I would say there is an overall conses to get rid of the tag and not rename it. Anyway I changed the wording on the answer.
@A-Tech I recommend making your answer CW
CW?
nvm
16:23
@VLAZ FWIW several of the regex in the blocklist could be made more efficient if we needed a performance bump.
done
@HenryEcker I know how we can have it even more performant. Disintegrate anybody who uses a wrong tag and use their molecules to power SE. There is probably a small flaw in the plan: the technology hasn't caught up to the demand yet. Well, also "ethics" and "morals" if you're into that.
In meta-related news: this is just terribly tagged: Complex SQL Query . It's just about SQL. I avoid making edits when trying to research tag usage but this one I retagged to because the other tags didn't make a lick of sense.
And yes, the title is also terrible.
when literal spam is posted to the blog
> How do we identify and prioritize chores like these? I have a whole self-paced online course about that
16:48
@KevinB Is it the tech debt one?
16:59
Displayed content before the template while reading meta description tagged and . Guess how many of the two it actually refers to. Spoiler: neither. It's apparently just about some PHP (no tag, obviously) which generates HTML (well, meta tags but probably doesn't matter one bit).
@KevinB OK, didn't want to "waste" 30 seconds skimming an unrelated article. So, it seems like a lot of the others which are similar: "Here is a problem. I'll talk broadly about it and mention my book/course/magic pebble that you can use to get rid of it".
"There's this big problem in tech. Here's all the things that lead to it and why it's such a big problem. Oh, btw, i have a course that helps you solve it, check it out"
Yep. There's been few of these articles.
i mean otherwise it seems like a fairly good article
17:07
@VLAZ actually is probably relevant there but the question needs an MCVE
I doubt it's relevant, to be honest. I do agree that the question should be closed, though. It's just about generating HTML. I doubt it's just meta tags that are an issue.
This can't be answered without seeing the contents of $banc. — TylerH 5 mins ago
From my knowledge of PHP and the timestamp - I'd say the user forgot a print or a var_dump somewhere.
Uh, common problem of that era. Back when I did a bit of PHP myself.
@VLAZ see their comments under PeeHaa's answer
they have unescaped content in the variable
Ah, yeah - probably just mismatched formatting and closing the tag early, then.
Also a common problem. Because "WTF is even safe preservation of data" is something I remember as somehow an insurmountable problem in the PHP world.
In that - yes, there are well-known, time-tested, and quite safe practices for, say, saving something to a database then putting in HTML. Yet many PHP developers couldn't quite grasp it.
(timestamp still relevant for this assessment)
17:26
At this rate though we probably won't need a meta thread... just keep posting the bad ones you find her and I edit them and the whole tag'll be clean by the end of the week :-P
I've posting exceptionally few of the bad ones I've found. I've gone through almost the last few pages.
(last two sorted by Newest)
I'm saying there might be one or two more questions that deserve attention.
18:16
*sigh* this is your regular reminder that the regex tag is a joke. Keep only alphabats (upper and lower) and number, Remove rest from the sentance through Javascrpt
- Closed for not being focused. When it really can't be more focused than it is. Well, except it says "regex preferred" but that never stopped anyone before on [regex] tagged questions from disregarding other solutions
- One of the most prolific people on the tag asks for what regex OP used. Which we all know is super useless. Because *regardless* or what (if anything) OP used, an answer will *completely ignore it* and just post the correct regex.
- Two answers already. And here I turn on the question - for a *pretty basic* like "tutorial in regex material" type of question.
And obviously - no dupe proposal.
Of course finding a proper dupe is an uphill battle because of so much of this.
@VLAZ I see you found a dupe target. If there's a third user here who can assist, I can help you reopen it so it can be re-closed as a dupe
Yeah, finding a third person is the problem...
Back in the day the issue was finding a fourth person to play cards with.
We can just say bad things about Kevin B until he reappears
OK, let's see "The B in Kevin B stands for bad!"
Doesn't seem bad enough.
18:31
Kevin B secretly loves jQuery
I went ahead and cast a reopen vote
in case another vote comes along
while we wait
19:00
i mean, that's no secret but ok
my name might still be on their site
yeah, it is
lol
there's a 0% chance i'll cast a reopen vote on a question tagged regex
19:19
Come onn
even if it's gonna get mjolnir'd immediately?
even you could mjolnir it
20:10
-1
Q: Shouldn't users be citing ChatGPT?

Travis JI know this sounds counterintuitive, who would out themselves? We are all aware of the Temporary policy: ChatGPT is banned. However, this post has to do with the plagiarism aspect of using ChatGPT. While it is a bannable offense to post content from ChatGPT (the first offense seemingly being a we...

Maybe give double the penalty if the user doesn't openly disclose that they are violating our policies
20:21
@VLAZ Can I help? I love questions being properly hammered regardless of tag and am happy if temporary reopening is required. I do, however, need to be adequately convinced of the dupe
it's 100% a duplicate
perfect match
I took the inputs/outpus from the closed question and applied the answer I linked to them.
@KevinB it is. I was just saying that as a general stance, I hadn't looked at it yet
there's your third reopen, go swing
er, there ought to be a proper idiomatic expression for that, you know what I mean
20:27
I think "hammer" (as verb) is idiomatic around SE
uhoh, i found a question that i casted a reopen vote on that was tagged regex
also, imo you should absolutely hold yourself free to chew out that other commenter for risking derailment
Flagged that one NLN
I do that with most "what have you tried?" type comments.
but tbf i was suggesting a non-regex solution to the problem
;)
Meh, I try not to get involved in regex questions any more. The one I gave (what I thought would be) a good non-regex solution was closed as a dupe to a regex.
20:30
this one's from 2015
wow, just saw the "deleted" banner's date, and it made me realize how long ago that was
Yeah this one I'm still annoyed about. While looking for it, I also found this one (also a non-regex solution) which I thought was a useful answer. But alas, "too broad" and also Roomba-deleted. This one also too broad for reasons that defy me. Not deleted (yet?) though.
20:50
>for reasons that defy me
in general I consider these sorts of things unclear or nmf
because "How do i get the asin number?" leaves open the question of "what is the rule that tells you where the asin number is?" it's not clear why the shown result for the given input is correct, nor is it clear what rule should be used.
also, the question should at least have been formally tagged with the language
but my general sense with the distaste for regex questions is that they don't show analysis
like, "what do you want the regex to do" "I want it to give me X output for Y input" "Okay, but why is that the correct output? In plain English, what is the pattern you are looking for?"
the other possible quibble in favour of NMF is: there are separate steps here - figuring out a regex that matches the asin, and then telling the language to use that regex to extract the asin from the input
if figuring out the regex answers the actual question, then it should have been written that way (and also I would be wrong about the tagging, but either way the title should be edited)
if not, then OP needs to be sent to some kind of canonical about how to use regex matches to parse strings
even if it's something as simple as (in python) "why didn't re.match find something in the middle of the string?" (or whatever the js equivalent is)
 
1 hour later…
21:59
@KarlKnechtel It's a parameter in the query part of the URL. It's not exactly "unclear". The question does specify exactly what's it looking for in the URL.
@KarlKnechtel It was tagged with
Heck, looking through the history - it was made more unclear after the closure. See revision #1. I mean - needs editing. But it's far more direct. Handling URLs, even with regex, isn't some vast ocean of knowledge which is undistillable to a Q&A. I'd accept it being a "localised problem". But at the end of the day it's just finding a well-defined part of a string. Or URL. Both things we can do.
I'm not able to imagine how it would be more focused. "How do I extract n characters from this n+1 long string"?
Also, quite important - it's not just a URL. It's a known URL. From Amazon. They have a structure to them and aren't just anything.
22:42
okay, so separately we should ask why OP wants to use a regex to split a string at &s (or just what, exactly?)
In general, we need much better policy for how to deal with "how do I [use inappropriate tool] to do the thing?" questions.
of course, in the "not a discussion forum" viewpoint, the fact that OP doesn't know an appropriate tool is not our problem; the question has been prematurely focused
 
1 hour later…
23:53
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ questions tagged were often answered with just JS answers without jQuery. Well, and other answers focused on the jQuery aspect only. I'm not that familiar with how questions are handled in other tech stacks but I'd expect an [a] [b] to be answerable with A or B. Well, assuming they are equal in terms of being able to be solved. is likely not answerable with "array knowledge".
It's this all consuming thing where its presence somehow trumps other tags. I've been called out for providing JS solutions to questions. Because OP asked for regex (even when there is a simpler more robust solution without regex).
That's why I've stopped bothering with . I'd say half of the questions are wrong but that'd be an improvement of the current state. And when you do try to interact with them, it's just full of frustration. Especially if you were to ever try to commit the sin of not using regex for something that's not a regex task.

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