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12:02 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Alexei Levenkov
The "SO for beginners" is discussed meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/252781/… to save on detailed reasoning. — Alexei Levenkov 42 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
I have answers of my own on "SO for beginners/homework" scattered elsewhere on Meta, too. It was easier for me to retype a summary than to go searching for a link. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Alexei Levenkov
I just started to write the answer when I saw notification about your answer (which would endup 99% the same as yours, just without "a"/"the" :) ), so I had a link for it handy. — Alexei Levenkov 58 secs ago
 
12:20 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
There's a reason I led my first comment with the statement, "it's not critical information". If this were critical information, then I agree, there needs to be more signals other than color for accessibility reasons. But non-critical information, information that is merely supplemental and whose lack of accessibility does not in any way interfere with one's usage of the site, does not need to be rendered in multiple ways. A single one (color) is sufficient. I wouldn't have objection to adding a border to the background, but I dislike changing to italics or adding icons. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
 
12:36 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Alexei Levenkov
cs.stackexchange.com is equivalent "need a book to understand answer" tier for SO... — Alexei Levenkov 46 secs ago
 
12:48 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by John Montgomery
I'm not entirely clear on what's happening in the situation you're describing and what the third person's involvement is, but suspensions are handled manually, so it would be up to the moderator's judgment whether their involvement was problematic. If it was just that one comment, I can't imagine they'd get punished for it. — John Montgomery 1 min ago
 
1:44 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by BSMP
Their posts will also be removed. Do you mean their comments? Or are you talking about a question or answer post with inappropriate content? As for how long a suspension lasts, that’s also up to the moderator which they normally base on how bad the problem was and how long the user’s previous suspension was. — BSMP 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by BSMP
If you’re concerned that flagging one comment will get some other commentator in trouble, that is highly unlikely. Moderators don’t even see the surrounding comments when handling flags. You can use a custom flag to point out that there is a fight happening. But even if the mod just deletes the whole thread, that doesn’t mean that everyone who commented got suspended. — BSMP 34 secs ago
 
2:06 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by BSMP
It probably doesn’t check whether the entire question is a link. I’ve seen that happen before. It otherwise has a title, tags, and the minimum amount of text. — BSMP 1 min ago
 
2:38 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by 1201ProgramAlarm
@VLAZ they do get a notification Unless there's a bug (since fixed) where notifications don't always go out. — 1201ProgramAlarm 18 secs ago
 
 
2 hours later…
4:26 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
FYI: That comment got auto-flagged by the rude comments bot. I removed the sentence you're referring to, which was rude, wrong, and irrelevant. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
 
4:36 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Alexei Levenkov
@CodyGray I didn't find that part to be rude, I can see "irrelevant"... but I bet my comments get some of those flags too so not going to judge bot on it :) — Alexei Levenkov just now
 
4:52 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Martin James
I would be LOL if the situation was not so tragically bad. The worst of it is the almost total lack of debugging attempts. I blame Hollywood for portraying software as written by a gifted few 'smart' hackers in a few minutes and so hard work with the debugger/logger is for other people:( — Martin James 1 min ago
 
 
1 hour later…
6:12 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by ivarni
If you misunderstand an answer (and I'm not saying you did), then by definition it is not useful. — ivarni 26 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by VLAZ
@1201ProgramAlarm I think it's redundant to say "this is how it works unless there is a bug" because that's true for every single feature. — VLAZ 1 min ago
 
6:30 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by J L
Yes! Thank you :) — J L 57 secs ago
 
6:52 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by yivi
No, the question was a typo. The best possible course of action was to vote to close as a typo. You can help the user with a comment about their typo if you want, but closing these questions as dupes is not helpful in the long term. We do not need thousands of trivial questions pointing to the same canonical answer. You are taking away the wrong conclusion from this. — yivi 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
I regularly disagree with the bot. This wasn't one of those times. Attempting to dictate how people vote is a pretty clear line for me. — Cody Gray ♦ 57 secs ago
 
7:12 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Martin James
The comment is self-inconsistent anyway. If you avoid downvoting because you misunderstand something, then you must have understood that you misunderstood something, so you would actually end up understanding and so not downvoting because of misunderstandings. Surely that's clear? — Martin James 5 secs ago
 
8:02 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
I have no idea. The closure looks invalid to me. Note that the question went through Triage twice. Probably a victim of a moderator in a hurry, trying to put out a forest fire with a single blanket. — Cody Gray ♦ 28 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by VLAZ
Question looks OK but I'm really out of my depth with C++, especially with language-lawyer. So, I cannot vote for reopen in clear conscience. — VLAZ 5 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
"Mobile apps" is two words, not one. But if the goal is native mobile apps, I have to lend this project my strong support, typos and/or grammatical mistakes notwithstanding. :-) — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
 
 
2 hours later…
9:48 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Hans Passant
Victim of this audit, the mod is cracking down on "requires editing" review votes where nobody other than the post owner could reasonably edit. He probably didn't see it was an audit. Why the user passed the audit is hard to guess, there are a lot of things wrong with that review queue. Anyhoo, the question is open again. — Hans Passant 37 secs ago
 
10:30 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Martin James
Just downvote them out-of-hand. This selfish approach of 'post anyway and let someone else put in the effort of searching' is past annoying. Same with 'i++ + ++i' - two of those in the last hour. A 'homework/beginners' site would be a cucumber-fest where immoral/uncaring askers give free rep to the immoral/uncaring answerers:(( — Martin James 1 min ago
 
10:46 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by yivi
@Hans Picking "requires editing" on a "known good" post is a way to pass an audit. A good post may benefit from editing. Choosing "unsalvageable" would fail the audit. — yivi 21 secs ago
 
11:14 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by E_net4 removes meta-commentary
Too many users of this site don't know better. I'm not sure whether we need more Meta questions like these or one FAQ to rule them all. — E_net4 removes meta-commentary 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Asti
This got me too. It's not clear what the "you" in Requires Editing means. First time I'm looking at the Triage queue. I usually fix some typos in the edit reviews, but now that's blocked too. — Asti 1 min ago
 
11:30 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Scratte
I just read Failed audit: question needs editing. It seems one can also fail an audit by editing a good post. — Scratte 1 min ago
 
 
2 hours later…
1:02 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by BDL
Does this answer your question? z-index issue in "Review First Post"BDL 6 secs ago
 
1:20 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by greg-449
This is Meta Stack Overflow, for discussions about how Stack Overflow works. Your question is off-topic here and belongs on the main site. — greg-449 22 secs ago
 
1:56 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Braiam
@MartinJames I think that, if I'm not misunderstanding (?), the user is saying that if you are unsure you shouldn't vote. — Braiam 1 min ago
 
2:10 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by E_net4 removes meta-commentary
@Braiam Did you misunderstand what Martin James said? ;) — E_net4 removes meta-commentary 19 secs ago
 
 
1 hour later…
3:16 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Teemu
There's a grace period while you can answer a closed question. How about no rep for an answer upvoted during the grace period? The timer is already running, maybe it could be applied to this "rep ban" too ..? — Teemu 32 secs ago
 
3:50 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by F1Krazy
What kind of flag did you raise? — F1Krazy 16 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Coli
"Moderator invention" flag. — Coli 20 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by yivi
It's up to the user to remove their personal information from the post. Did you post a comment warning them of their mishap?. Once published it's too late to put the genie back into the bottle. The user can raise their own redaction request if they are interested. You can submit a suggested edit to help the user, if you believe it's worth it. Although the email will remain in the post edit history. — yivi 58 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by yivi
 
4:24 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
This is almost certainly the same issue as meta.stackexchange.com/questions/345598/…Martijn Pieters ♦ 23 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
Yup, looking into this this is the exact same underlying problem. — Martijn Pieters ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
How do you know that the email is private? Is this your email and you want it to be removed? If not, then it's up to the question asker to indicate if the email was meant to be published or not. Just because there is an email in a post doesn't make it private and requiring moderator intervention. — Martijn Pieters ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Triby
@MartijnPieters, doesn't seem to be the same issue that you linked, all review sections looks like this, even after refresh (F5) or (CTRL+F5) — Triby 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
Sure, but that's because review, for certain configurations, starts with an AJAX request to load the next available review item. That's not always the case, but it is for you. This is absolutely the same issue. — Martijn Pieters ♦ 34 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
Then do as Yuvi did and edit the question yourself. — Martijn Pieters ♦ 11 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Coli
@MartijnPieters Okay could be, but I think its not very clever to post it as plain text in a stackoverflow question (think of bots). But I get your point, although I don't think the E-Mail in this posting is a intended publishing. — Coli 55 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Coli
This does not solve the edit-history problem, thats why I asked here/raised the flag. — Coli 15 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by rene
Once it is posted it probably is too late already. The Google crawler is pretty aggressive with indexing new content. — rene 1 min ago
 
5:00 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Shai Almog
Thanks. Fixed ;-) — Shai Almog 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by John Montgomery
@yivi I'm referring to this meta question, not the original one. — John Montgomery 51 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by 1201ProgramAlarm
@VLAZ I thought it worth mentioning because it was a very recent problem — 1201ProgramAlarm 31 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
Glad to hear! The devs must've rolled back whatever caused this. — Martijn Pieters ♦ 52 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Triby
It's working fine now! — Triby 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by yivi
@John, I was not replying to you but to the question asker. I voted to reopen this que question. — yivi 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
Looks like all the issues I've seen have been mitigated now. — Martijn Pieters ♦ 16 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Greg Harner
I agree this would be helpful. For me, it is the exact opposite reason. I want to answer more questions on StackOverflow, but a lot of the questions that are asked exceed my skill level. I do not think I have a lot to offer someone with 15,000 reputation points. However, someone with 150 reputation points my find my answer helpful. — Greg Harner 25 secs ago
 
5:48 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by machine_1
Even if the weather is bad? :) — machine_1 21 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Don't Panic
@machine_1 yes, I upvoted your comment just now because it is too sunny where I am. — Don't Panic 1 min ago
 
 
1 hour later…
7:02 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by John Montgomery
You posted this on Meta, which is for asking questions about Stack Overflow works and for help using the site. You want to ask this on the main site. But you should probably try to add some more detail to your question first. — John Montgomery 1 min ago
 
 
1 hour later…
8:10 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Kevin B
the automatic reopening... does that mean it would have to go through the close process again from scratch? 3 more close votes from users who hadn't voted yet? — Kevin B 7 secs ago
 
8:32 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dharman
What about duplicates? Does the same automatic reopening logic applies to them too? — Dharman 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by CertainPerformance
Today on Stack Overflow, roughly 20% of questions are edited after they are closed and just 3% of closed questions are ever reopened This indicates that around 86% of edits post closure are insufficient to make a post re-openable. Automatic reopening may well result in a huge proportion of false positives that then need more curation effort from the community to revert. — CertainPerformance 30 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dharman
@CertainPerformance I completely agree. It would make sense to make the question public again, but still closed. — Dharman 37 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe
Also roughly known as the mentorship programZoe 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by TylerH
Interesting metric for "old" questions there... I consider questions old once they are over about 6 months to a year old :-P — TylerH 11 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by VLAZ
@Dharman Then there is the "hidden"/"closed" thing - as far as I understand they are the same now closed is hidden, so it can be edited in peace. If a post is then subsequently shown but still closed...then what can we do about it? The post author can't do anything, and people can only vote to re-open. Which is basically what we have now but with a bit more enforced "quite time" for editing, while the post is hidden. — VLAZ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by VLAZ
@Dharman to be honest, I'm really not sure what's best here. The reopen queue is full of questions that were edited after being closed but the edits don't actually address anything (e.g., fixing few spelling mistakes but not the lack of code). On one hand, taking those off the queue would be welcome. On the other, if that means that reopened questions would still be bad, then...we just merely turned needing 3 VTCs into needing 6. — VLAZ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dharman
@VLAZ What would happen is that the post which do not get edited in the quiet time are never shown to me again and they will be removed properly from the site. If someone made proper edit I don't mind taking a second look and voting to reopen. — Dharman just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by double-beep
This question should be featured. — double-beep 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by TylerH
@Dharman That's a great idea (make the question public again but still closed) that meets the proposal halfway from the current implementation. — TylerH 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by TylerH
"What about people who edit their question to ask for a reason for the closing?" Indeed; I've seen plenty of edits to closed questions where the edit is a huge paragraph (or multiple paragraphs) complaining about incorrect closure or going into ridiculous detail about why the Q should not be closed... — TylerH 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by VLAZ
@TylerH as I said, depends on the traffic. I see questions that get to just abut 10 views in 5 minutes then people just stop opening them. Even days later they might get only a couple of more views. I've also seen clearly off-topic questions hang at 1-2 close votes for a week without getting more VTCs just because nobody looks at them. So...yeah, some questions get old fast. — VLAZ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dharman
It is a little bit insulting when you realize you want to let 1 person who has probably no experience with this site overrule a decision made by 3 people with ceratin amount of experience just because they have edited the question. If 3 people closed the question then 3 people need to review it after edit is made and decide if it can be reopened. — Dharman 44 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by VLAZ
@Zoe I was just thinking of doing something like VTC -> seeks debugging. Then doing (some form of) "Add improvement step" -> needs code. Or "Add improvement step" -> explain the problem, what is happening now, what's supposed to be happening. Then those get shown in the edit wizard as a checklist the user can go through while editing. So, the curators are more hands-off - they can just specify more specifically why a given close reason applies, so the asker can then be better informed what to improve. — VLAZ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by gnat
[ Boson ] New comment posted by bahrep
@gnat this does not answer my question, but rather raises the same question. But thank you. — bahrep 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
"they are usually placed between answers that were not removed" That is odd. Make sure that your sort order is by votes. — Cody Gray ♦ 55 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
That is not a programming question. Please review the Help Center. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
 
9:24 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by gnat
increasing limit of close votes and reviews is unlikely to help: we tested limit of 60 before and results weren't much encouraging (my own experience was that 50-60 votes could be too much to me - even though I picked easiest, low hanging fruit during this experiment). Other point in this answer look good to me — gnat 38 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Scratte
So.. If I create a Question that's not very good, I can't ask a friend or any of the vast majority of users. I have to go and chase down a high-reputation user? I'm not sure that would work out very well. — Scratte 51 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by bahrep
@CodyGray I do not want to sort posts by votes. I want to hide posts that were removed. — bahrep 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by gnat
there would be no need to add gibberish to break the system relying on automatic detection of substantial edits. I bet that top hit on google when someone enters "my homework was deleted at Stack Overflow" will become a recipe of an easiest way out, "copy some code from somewhere, indent it with 4 spaces and add it to your question and it will be immediately salvaged". And no automated system will be able to tell whether this is a random code dump or a relevant mcve. So this will essentially turn into increasing close vote threshold from 3 to 6 for vast majority of homework dumps — gnat 1 min ago
 
9:52 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Rubiksmoose
Something that is good to note: this is a test/plan, nothing is set in stone. So don't panic. :) — Rubiksmoose 1 min ago
 
10:14 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Des
@Dharman we plan to treat closed as duplicate slightly differently. Current thinking is to allow the user to confirm if it’s a duplicate question by selecting from suggested duplicates. If it is, the question becomes public and references the duplicate. If it isn’t, the question will need to be edited before automatic reopening (if it’s the first closure). — Des ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Des
@Scratte You’d still be able to share the question. We haven’t landed on the UX for discovering hidden questions. I think we need to strike a balance between Askers feeling intimidated because of how public the experience is and supported because the folks best equipped to help can easily do so. — Des ♦ 57 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by VLAZ
@gnat agreed on the close vote limit being too high. Well, again - for me. Although, I do agree with TylerH that something should be done. Splitting the close votes into "for the queue" and "outside" seems quite good, actually - I avoid the close vote queue because I ran out of votes fast. Then it's really frustrating to later see a question that is off-topic and I cannot VTC. I also don't want to do the close queue last thing in the day because I don't want to plan my day around this. Leaving some flags is sometimes not enough. It's just overall too annoying to use and manage. — VLAZ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dharman
Maybe the target question should get the tag status-review? — Dharman just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Temani Afif
Current thinking is to allow the user to confirm if it’s a duplicate question by selecting from suggested duplicates. --> most of users don't agree with duplicate simply because they don't like their question being closed as duplicate not because the duplicate isn't suitable ... the question will need to be edited before automatic reopening --> most of the edits are my question isn't a duplicate! so I don't agree at all with an automatic reopening of duplicate closure ... This will give us more job to reclose them again by calling another gold badge. — Temani Afif 17 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
"...or put them at the bottom so that they are not mixed up with other answers."Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
I categorically oppose the hiding of deleted posts from users with moderation privileges, so I don't think it needs to be reviewed or revisited, @Dharman. — Cody Gray ♦ 9 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by bahrep
@CodyGray I want to opt out of seeing those deleted answers. Please. — bahrep 17 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dharman
@CodyGray I do not want to hide them permanently. Just put them at the bottom of the page and ideally collapsed on load. I still want to be able to see them if needed, but they should not be as prominent. — Dharman 28 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dharman
e.g. here stackoverflow.com/questions/60174/… 28/113 are not deleted and the page loads extemely slow, because all answers are loaded. Maybe the deleted ones could be lazy-loaded — Dharman 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by gnat
@VLAZ well my recollection of that ancient experiment is that votes over 50 would be too hard to me and probably to most other 3Kers - except for votes in my familiar tags. Guess this later led mo to proposing vote limit increase for tag badge holders here (or maybe it would be more accurate to say it was proposed by Tim Post because he filled my initial vague draft with concrete reasonable details — gnat 23 secs ago
 
11:00 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Makyen
@VLAZ You just said "agreed … close vote limit … too high" and "[I don't do some moderation tasks because] I ran out of votes fast". Those are really opposite statements. I know you specifically mentioned that you'd want the close-vote queue votes decoupled from votes which you are able to cast in the normal course of using the site. However, wouldn't it be a reasonable solution to just increase the overall number of CVs such that there are enough for both? Doing so would allow users to concentrate on what they choose to, unless the goal is to push people into servicing the CV queue. — Makyen 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Scratte
Not sure I quite follow the logic for two reasons: 1. Being told off is not going to feel better just because it's done in hidden posts. 2. Nobody knows who users are unless they deliberately choose to reveal that information. — Scratte 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Makyen
If this is just for yourself, then it's easily accomplished by adding the CSS: .answer.deleted-answer {display: none;}Makyen 44 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Alexei Levenkov
Some good numbers are needed for this FR - I (as I suspect a large majority of users) use "by votes" view and yet to see case where deleted answers consistently show up next to top rated answers. As result I don't see any value in this request for me. — Alexei Levenkov 27 secs ago
 
11:50 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by TGrif
You might find some help on superuser. — TGrif 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by TGrif
I tried to hit the back button on your screenshot... — TGrif 15 secs ago
 

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