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10:03 PM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Shog9
I've had folks write me lengthy, multi-paragraph answers in the form of a string of back-to-back comment replies. Not only is this nearly impossible to respond to in any sane way (if I need 800 characters to respond to each 600 from such an author, and they need 42000 to respond to each of my responses, the comment thread becomes unmanageable almost instantly), it effectively means that no one else can get a word in edge-wise. Someone can be perfectly civil and even tangentially on-topic, and still provide an utter waste of everyone's time. — Shog9 ♦ 50 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by James K Polk
Hmm... seems like a reasonable answer, but it seems to have pissed some people off. I'm guessing it's because of the sentence Practice is that the community treats questions often unfairly,...James K Polk 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tiny Giant
I agree with @mason's reference to moving to chat. In my opinion that should basically never be done on meta, ever. — Tiny Giant 19 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by James K Polk
Did you really have a comment deleted, or did you just want to document the remediation process? — James K Polk 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tiny Giant
"Answering a question or providing an alternate solution to an existing answer" what if I don't consider it an answer, but someone else does? Your going to delete my comment because you think it could possibly have been an answer? — Tiny Giant 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Hovercraft Full Of Eels
@JamesKPolk: I agree. I see that Peter H often makes some very intelligent insightful observations on the dynamics of the site, but then injects emotional and argumentative pokes that detract from the nuggets of quality that are present. — Hovercraft Full Of Eels 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Catija
Ah, on re-reading I think I misunderstood your question, @mason - They certainly can be hurting things. They can confuse people so that it's difficult to follow the discussion. Think of potholes on a freeway. You're supposed to be able to move quickly and smoothly through a discussion but you're constantly having to swerve around or get bounced all over the roadway. Jokes and sidebar discussions that should be their own meta question or an answer to the question shouldn't be impeding the flow any more than our system already does. — Catija ♦ 16 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tiny Giant
"If there is a lack of clarity about a comment or comment thread, the comment(s) will be deleted" So if you don't understand something in a comment thread, you'll delete the whole thread? What if those engaging in the discussion understand the thread perfectly? — Tiny Giant 16 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tiny Giant
"When dealing with the unwieldy activity of such a large community the onus is to keep the site clean" I think the onus is always to preserve useful information and discussion. If we the ultimate purpose is to have a clean site, we should just delete all of the content and make it read only such that no one can ever post anything. — Tiny Giant 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by mason
@Catija I think you're really overestimating how serious those potholes (comments) are. Those that do care to read everything can do so already. Those that just want to see the highlights will see the comments that got upvoted. It's not perfect (I want threaded comments!), but it's better than just nuking everything, which is what the moderators seem to be doing these days, and it's far better than chat. In chat, there are lots of off-topic discussions or jokes happening concurrently due to the rapid fire nature. And not a good way for useful statements to rise up and be seen. — mason 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tiny Giant
"There needs to be a level of personal responsibility for each person participating on the site for their own contributions. If you are finding your comments are being flagged/deleted, consider reevaluating what you are saying or how you are saying it." It is somewhat impossible at the current time to "reevaluate" what or how we're saying it as the policy around deletion is so vague and open to interpretation it is impossible to know whether or not a comment will be deleted when posting it regardless of the content of the comment. — Tiny Giant 50 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tiny Giant
@Shog9 "and they want to hammer out guidelines" so far all I've seen is moderators not wanting guidelines at all, and their attempts to derail any discussion around said guidelines, including this one. Could you please provide some clarification as to how they "want to hammer out guidelines"? — Tiny Giant 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Catija
@mason We disagree, and that's fine... but it's also tangential to this answer because the answer doesn't actually take a side. What I said in my first two comments is what I'm trying to suss out. This answer doesn't actually set a policy that mods can follow because it's unclear. We need to do more to help the mods here on SO understand what the users think. You clearly have ideas about what the policy should be; write them up and put them in an answer and let people vote so that we can see what they think. :) — Catija ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tiny Giant
@GeorgeStocker "comments rate at the least effective way to do so and are discouraged when better options exist" Chat is 100% not a better option, and many times an answer is definitely not a better option. Comments are largely an effective way of discussing things and have been for 10 years. That said, your "discouraging" people from using comments as opposed to anything else is by deleting the useful information. You aren't converting it to (in your opinion) a better option, you're just getting rid of it entirely. — Tiny Giant 37 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tiny Giant
@Catija "You're supposed to be able to move quickly and smoothly through a discussion" says who? When has it ever been said that discussions must be smooth and quick to read? Any discussion worth having is going to be a lot of reading, and you may be sent all over the site visiting links to relevant information etc. Any discussion that is a straight path between point A and point B is generally going to not be very interesting or useful. — Tiny Giant 5 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by George Stocker
@yvette incidentally Tiny is proving how ineffective comments are for conveying viewpoints. — George Stocker ♦ 46 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Yvette Colomb
@TinyGiant stop spamming the post with comments. — Yvette Colomb ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tiny Giant
@Catija "This answer doesn't actually set a policy that mods can follow because it's unclear." it seems like a very clear policy to me. That you don't agree with the proposed policy doesn't make it unclear. — Tiny Giant 51 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by George Stocker
@tinygiant as always you are welcome to write up a new meta question or answer conveying your views, depending on what you want to “discuss”. — George Stocker ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tiny Giant
@GeorgeStocker My first five comments here were requests for clarification against individual points in the post (this being an explicitly recommended use of the comment system). My sixth comment was a request for clarification of a comment posted against this answer, no other medium would have been appropriate for that comment. My seventh comment was a rebuttal of your comment here, again no other medium would have been appropriate for that comment. — Tiny Giant 20 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tiny Giant
@GeorgeStocker Also, none of my comments would make any sense whatsoever as a new answer here or as another meta question. — Tiny Giant 37 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Clive
(Pretty sure that last comment demonstrates my viewpoint pretty succinctly, so yet another petty nonsense has been disproved...) — Clive 43 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Clive
Erm, we haven’t decided whether we want to keep comment threads on meta long yet. That’s what this is all about. To reduce someone exercising their ability to post multiple comments to a “spammer” is pretty offensive. You lot really should know better. — Clive 2 mins ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by George Stocker
@tinygiant this comment you left “That said, your "discouraging" people from using comments as opposed to anything else is by deleting the useful information.” represents a viewpoint that would be very useful to be fleshed out into a new meta question or into an existing meta question as an answer. Maybe even a new answer on this question. Putting it into a comment all but guarantees you can’t flesh it out further, people can’t find it, and no one can debate it in an easy to follow way. In short, comments keep you from being able to point to your viewpoints or others to find them. — George Stocker ♦ just now
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tiny Giant
Honestly, how am I supposed to request clarification of a post now if I can't do it in a comment? Do you want me to post a new meta question for every point that I would like clarified on a meta answer? With all due respect, that is pure nonsense. — Tiny Giant 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Catija
@TinyGiant If I can interpret it to mean that jokes can be removed (which I can) and mason can interpret it to mean they should stay (which I think is the case)... then it's unclear. — Catija ♦ 30 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Yvette Colomb
@TinyGiant you have no interest in clarification. You are only interested in arguing with a hostile undertone. That is how you come across on meta and frankly, a lot of people are tired of it. — Yvette Colomb ♦ 57 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by George Stocker
(As always, the above comment will self destruct since comments aren’t a great place to keep long lasting information. Once you’ve seen it it’s served its purpose in me writing it.) — George Stocker ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Clive
@YvetteColomb if you’re actually interested in talking about what people are tired of, you need to open your ears a bit. Otherwise I guess you can just keep on deleting everything that makes you look bad. It’ll come back to haunt you though, I guarantee it. — Clive 33 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Yvette Colomb
@Clive you need to open your ears. The site has put down a directive of how it wants meta to run. There's been a line drawn in the sand. We're telling you this. It's not optional, it's the site owners' wishes. You and I don't have a say in it. We're simply informing you - "this is the way it is" You don't have to like it, but you have to accept it, as no amount of complaining and blackening people's reputations will change a thing - except perhaps cause the network to dramatically change meta or kill it. — Yvette Colomb ♦ 13 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Clive
I’m willing to accept those odds. I’d rather see it die than become the pathetic little PC bubble you seem to be trying to turn it into (I don’t aim that at you in personal sense, but it appears a couple of you are more prominent in fighting for this bubble). I’m to the mattresses and I imagine I’m not alone in that. — Clive 48 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Yvette Colomb
@Clive it's clear there's people like yourself who'd rather see the site die and it's people like you, we're sick and tired of. — Yvette Colomb ♦ 23 secs ago
 
11:31 PM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tiny Giant
@GeorgeStocker I was responding to your comment, not starting an entirely new discussion. You started the discussion by posting your comment. If you don't want people to reply to you, don't post comments. The other comment about comments self destructing is yet another example of a comment that will start a discussion, violating your own rules yet again. I have no interest in following you down that rabbit hole. — Tiny Giant 13 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Shog9
Actually... It's not fine, Cat. @mason, it was just a couple of months ago that you were giving me grief for not replying to one comment out of over 100 in a single thread. Don't be a hypocrite now. — Shog9 ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tiny Giant
@Yvette I have done nothing but try to be as constructive as humanly possible, and the only thing that I have gotten in response is ad-hominem attacks from elected diamond moderators, and gas-lighting to make me believe that I'm actually doing that instead of those that are. — Tiny Giant 19 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tiny Giant
@YvetteColomb I absolutely have an interest in clarification, as I've said repeatedly. I am not arguing with a hostile undertone, I literally posted 5 specific, on-topic clarification requests that have no hostility whatsoever. You can read whatever you want into my responses, but that doesn't make them anything than what they are. It seems to me that you are the one who has no interest in clarification, and you are only insterested in arguing with a hostile undertone, something that I have yet to do here. Also, who is this "lot of people" who "are tired of [how I come across on meta]"? — Tiny Giant 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Clive
@TinyGiant there’s a very good chance it won’t lead anywhere, but you should flag these personal attacks. I have to believe there are still some proper mods left in there. — Clive 18 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tiny Giant
@Catija It seems to me that if the joke was relevant to the topic at hand, it would be allowed. If it was completely unrelated to the topic at hand it would be deleted. That doesn't seem very complicated. You seem to think that jokes should inherently be treated differently than anything else. A comment, if civil and related to the topic at hand, should not be deleted. If it is not related to the topic at hand or is not civil, it should be deleted. — Tiny Giant 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tiny Giant
I'm actually really offended by these repeated personal attacks that have nothing to do with my actual responses but peoples own personal opinions of me. Why do I have to be singled out and targeted? Other people have commented here and elsewhere without being accused of spamming, trolling, or arguing with hostile undertones. I don't see how my comments are somehow abhorrent and their's are not. — Tiny Giant 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Clive
@Shog9 I would dearly love your opinion on my comment that you replied to having been deleted. As an SO citizen of unquestionable standing yourself, was that worthy of unilateral deletion in the new way of things? — Clive 24 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by George Stocker
Let’s try this again: if you have an alternate policy you’d like to float, make it an answer. @tinygiant, mason, Clive. Using the comments here to make an alternate policy does not allow anyone to follow the “policy” easily. — George Stocker ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tiny Giant
@GeorgeStocker You have yet again violated your own rules. You're specifically going out of your way to derail the conversation, yet again. Please restore the comments of mine that you have deleted. This is a travesty, it is not your responsibility to destroy meta. — Tiny Giant 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by George Stocker
Yes, somehow keeping the comments on topic is derailing them. — George Stocker ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tiny Giant
@GeorgeStocker All of the comments you deleted were on-topic. Deleting on-topic comments will most certainly derail a discussion, yes. — Tiny Giant 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tiny Giant
Regardless, it seems like a damn good idea to refrain from deleting comments in the discussion about what comments should be deleted. That seems... logical... — Tiny Giant 6 secs ago
 
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