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15:00
@BenjaminGruenbaum I don't know, I think it's really confusing to have your hello world in a class when you don't even know what an object is
@SomeKittens CS degree will get you much, but in terms of having a broader horizon, there are some jobs you can't get unless you have a CS or Math degree
When I was looking for an internship in Germany, most of the companies wanted java developers for some reason.
@FlorianMargaine Java doesn't infer anything or understand anything on its own
@BenjaminGruenbaum Will they take you just for the degree or look for internships, code, etc?
@SomeKittens Depends where, a lot of students here get student jobs during their degree
user2157210
15:01
Well I am not even quite sure if i should go for CS
@SomeKittens I'm worth ~70% less as a CS graduate than as an experienced programmer.
See, I disagree with the idea that CS degrees don't get you much. In my experience, they get you a good theoretical foundation in algorithms, efficiency, data structures, and networking.
2
user2157210
i rather want to go into Consulting
Is it worth the cost? That's a different debate...
@RyanKinal Exactly
In here degrees cost ~2000$ a year and you work from your second year on making ~15$ an hour (if you have no previous experience)
The degree is, however, very hard
user2157210
15:02
Cs degrees teaches you alot of the basics you wouldnt get by just coding
user2157210
i would say
user2157210
or well i hope so thats why i plan on getting it
@RyanKinal Oh, I'm not arguing that they're useless (getting my own, in fact), just that companies that want to hire look for more than just the degree (github, internships, etc)
@Nexxpresso It teaches you all the basics, that's the good part
It was very common to stay overnight and study or program here for freshmen
user2157210
thats what i need
user2157210
15:03
I mean i can code but I lack some of the basics
@SomeKittens Agreed. You have to put some practice on top of the theory in order to get a good job.
@Nexxpresso Math, Math is really important at a lot of fields of programming and is really hard to learn on your own without already having a solid foundation
user2157210
which i can probably get by a CS degree but I dont know if that is the degree brining me near to be a Consultant
Ah yes. Math. :shakes fist:
Math is awesome ^_^
4
user2157210
15:04
Math will be hard
user2157210
but needed
@Nexxpresso When you say "Consultant"... what do you mean?
Not just needed, but fun. Schools make us hate math with a passion, in university level math you see how beautiful it really is.
There are many different kinds of consultant...
user2157210
Well IT consultant id say
15:05
I enjoy thinking about Math. I don't enjoy being graded on my understanding of it.
Constantly getting better and knowing more programming best practices, reading books on design patterns, writing good programs etc. That's all expected of you regardless of a degree. At a degree you cover stuff like basic types of algorithms, how algorithms work, formallity, computability, etc.
^ that
user2157210
I just want to have to some position where i am near the business and where I can have some start to get into some managing position later on
Ugh. Management. Screw that.
user2157210
Nah
15:06
If you read less than 3 articles about JavaScript or programming.. never-mind if any of you didn't read that much, you wouldn't be in this room to begin with.
user2157210
I dont want to go for Business studies
I want to make stuff. Not manage people.
Management is evil.
user2157210
thats why i am doing my business studies thing right now
user2157210
so i am certified in that
15:07
Once you start hiring people purely to manage, the company begins to slide downhill.
user2157210
and then CS degree
@RyanKinal My before last job was mainly management, I really hate management stuff. I hated firing people, I hated screwing people over because it was the right thing to do economically and I hated not making stuff, that's why I quit that job :)
That said, I have a folder full of bookmarks about managing geek-types.
He wants to get super rich and then buy all the happiness
Management isn't evil, I'd just rather not do it
user2157210
15:08
Well my dad wanted me to study business studies
user2157210
or even law shit
@RyanKinal The less people you manage the nicer it gets
You can be a coder who's also a leader. That's fine, and crucial to an awesome company.
leading !== managing
@BenjaminGruenbaum I can only assume. I've never really had to manage.
user2157210
Yeah you can do Project leader
15:09
I do, sometimes, have to lead, though
user2157210
but thats not what i really want
user2157210
I just set myself some high goals so i have something to work for
hebrew on my facebook
The product manager or to the lesser extant the project lead isn't really the type of management I was talking about. That's perfectly fine :) You do all the coding but not the dirty parts
@FlorianMargaine lol, that's my friend in the Aquarium (computer lab in the university)
user2157210
15:10
I think by defining yourself high goals you strive to get better
@Nexxpresso At the end, the race is only against yourself :)
@BadgerGirl are you Eva?
user2157210
Sure it is we are humans we always race ourselves to get better
@FlorianMargaine Yes.
user2157210
I do think thats the right way to go
15:12
@BadgerGirl ... yes or no?
!!is BadgerGirl Eva?
user2157210
You do not want a job where you just have to do things you are told you want to get better and command yourself
@SomeKittens Of course not
if yes, then @copy is Fabian?
that's such a typical german name...
The bot has spoken.
user2157210
15:13
typical german name ..
@FlorianMargaine Ask him
@Nexxpresso You get a big degree of autonomy as a senior programmer
user2157210
@BenjaminGruenbaum yeah sure I am just not sure if programming is my way to go
user2157210
It's fun of course but am I good enough in it to make a living of it?
@Nexxpresso I tried running from programming for a while since I was doing it since I was 6, ended up coming back every time :)
@Nexxpresso You can be good enough if you constantly code
@Nexxpresso You don't understand how bad people can be and still have well paying jobs..
6
15:16
^ also
I've found developers who are actually pretty good put themselves down a lot
user2157210
but I dont want to do something and be bad in it
user2157210
and the biggest point against being a programmer is
user2157210
if people know they ask you to fix their windows
lol
15:18
Not since I was 16
user2157210
i mean Programmer != Windows Support or electrical engineer who can tell you why the pc doesnt start anymore
@Nexxpresso they used to when I was "the IT guy", now I'm the "programmer guy" though, they don't ask anymore
@Nexxpresso It's really simple to deal with
@Nexxpresso Charge them hourly, and charge double as much as you would for programming. People tend not to bother you when you ask them for 60$ an hour for fixing their windows
@FlorianMargaine Who is Fabian?
user2157210
15:20
Copy is Fabian
Ah, cool
Your salary is determined by how good you are at convincing non-technical people you're good at technical stuff
user2157210
well i want to end in some job where i can manage some guys be near to business and such
@Ben you don't charge your parentd though
user2157210
@FlorianMargaine oh i do
15:25
@FlorianMargaine Lol, I charge them with food I like XD
user2157210
when fixing my dads problems i charge him 20€/hour
@BenjaminGruenbaum hahaha
He had to raise you, isn't that punishment enough?
@Nexxpresso that's... bad
I charge my dad $0.00 because he already spent tons raising me
15:26
in my opinion though
Yeah, how big a deal is helping them out?
I'm glad to help my family out
user2157210
@FlorianMargaine Well that originated in him telling me I had to learn how business life is going and how to make money
@FlorianMargaine That's the meaning of family
user2157210
I just backfired it to him
user2157210
15:27
He made me fucking take accounting classes
@FlorianMargaine that.
@Nexxpresso I'd say you're just ungrateful, but I don't know the whole story, so I'll just ignore you
sounds like a good tradeoff
user2157210
I am grateful it is not really serious in charging him
user2157210
but he got this philosophy that people have to work for the money they want
user2157210
So he wouldnt give me money for weekends party
15:30
What an asshole
My parents helped me a lot but it always came with strings attached. At ~14 I got good enough at programming to make enough money to get by. The first time I started making money programming is the first time I really got along with my parents. It made highschool a pain though because I was young and arrogant and disrespected a lot of my teachers. FWIW they were assholes to begin with
@jAndy ^
@jAndy The Game!
user2157210
15:33
@RyanKinal cant read that
@Nexxpresso It reads "You just lost the game. <3 Mom"
user2157210
lol
I can never recall what FWIW means...(already searched)
!!/urban fwiw
@SomeKittens FWIW "For what it's worth."
15:36
Aw, but that's the real meaning...
...hrm
!!/urban cheese
@Zirak cheese The greatest substance known to man,Worshipped by pagans, exploited by me!
PHP is a minor evil perpetrated and created by incompetent amateurs, whereas Perl is a great and insidious evil perpetrated by skilled but perverted professionals
Hello
Is it possible to count object's values in jquery?
"testObj" : {
"k1" : "v1",
"k2" : "v2"
}
i want to count testObj's members
in jQuery
15:46
You can't do that in jQuery because that's incredibly simple JS.
You mean to say its possible in simple JS
?
bonjour all
@FlorianMargaine who is this person you have suggested?
user2157210
@SimonSarris You should not be here
user2157210
15:48
You shall write books
I am! You people are my inspiration
my muses
What's our % again ?
I'm a mews.
user2157210
Needs "Inspired by Nexxpresso" subtitle
@SimonSarris That better be in the book
Wait, no, don't mention this chat
15:49
PLEASE don't mention this chat
user2157210
just mention Amaan
DON'T MENTION THE CHAT !
you get Math.floor(0.9)% royalties
@SimonSarris That's nice.
course thats as a percent of my own
15:50
Which changes everything
user2157210
Now you can mention the chat
@dystroy DON'T MENTION ZE WAR
user2157210
if you could hotlink in a book
the war?
know whats funny
the most-linked website in the book by far
Makes sense
Is MDN next?
15:50
@SimonSarris copy
MDN might be next
@FlorianMargaine ahhhhhh
!!should I bother or shouldn't I
@Zirak You should bother
Damn right
Oh, you improved the responses?
Nice
15:52
Whats the war!
It's been here for ~2 weeks
I thought it only responded with "You should" and other generic responses
@SimonSarris You weren't supposed to mention it!
ServiceFactoryFactory.java
Sounds promising
15:56
@Zirak Needz moar abstraction. You'd better create a ServiceFactoryFactoryFactory interface.
There's some enterprise name gold here
Math.floor = function(){ return 100; }
@SimonSarris
ChannelServiceFactory.java
ChannelServiceFactoryImpl.java
IChannelServiceFactoryProvider.java
user2157210
@BenjaminGruenbaum :D
@BenjaminGruenbaum hahahaha

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