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user1596138
21:00
Anyone want to sell a 1080 TI :)
user1596138
I mean. I'll call you stupid after you do because Idk why you'd go 20XX.
user1596138
But I need a 1080 ti
user1596138
Just finished last in-sprint task. Sprint ends in 1 hour. Time to breathe
i just bought a 1080 ti
omg vscode is acually really good lol
21:02
yeah but they're gonna see your semi-colons
@LuckyKleinschmidt for ray rendering that no one supports lol
user1596138
@KevinB Nice. Second thoughts or you happy?
user1596138
I'm going 2700X and 1080 TI
well
user1596138
Paying $650 for the TI from what I can find so far, tbh seems like a great deal
21:03
the 970ti i had was crashing frequently
the 1080ti doesn't
so, yay!
i think the 970 was faulty
@KevinB I have a 1080, do you think the ti is worth the extra?
user1596138
Ah. I have 860M atm and the paste has apparently deteriorated or something because it hits 85C and throttles within 20s of opening anything on the GPU :(
@DavidKamer i don't know enough about hardware to make such a comparison
user1596138
Was going to pay my car off before I built a new PC, this thing is OLD. But looks like I better hurry up
there are plenty of benchmarks out there though
user1596138
21:05
@DavidKamer It seems to be an extra $100-150 for a shit load more perf. That's my reasoning
none of my cards have had temp problems
user1596138
AMD afaik isn't planning to roll out any gamer oriented decent priced GPUs. So it seems like I'll have the 1080 TI for 3-4 years at least
at least not in the past 5-10 years
user1596138
@KevinB this is a laptop.
@LuckyKleinschmidt fair enough. I got the 1080 when it was released. I'm not certain but I think the 1080ti came out after
user1596138
21:06
Yeah the TI came out about a year after
@rlemon Thanks for the reply, Rob. Working on cooking together a minimal example. Of course it worked when I cut it down to a few pieces, so will try to figure out where the actual problem is coming from.
yeah, that's why I have the 1080. I don't think I'll upgrade; at this point, what difference does it make
user1596138
@KevinB what specific card did you buy?
i don't recall, and can't look it up atm
user1596138
@DavidKamer You'd be better off buying a $700 monitor so that you actually benefit from the upgrade lol
21:07
yeah monitor is my next upgrade
user1596138
Tbh. Unless some big game changer happens.... My next HW upgrade would be simply SLIing 1080 Tis
this one is quite old
both of them are quite old
@LuckyKleinschmidt true lol. I have a 2k monitor from benq. I only like widescreens but they are fairly expensive for what you get most times.
it's 120hz
user1596138
I have a new 75hz 1440 but nothing crazy. I imagine the TI won't have any issue with 60fps 1440
@TylerH Server farms never shut down and if they do they are constantly replicating on other servers. Google's servers will never shut down( I get it, the earth will be swallowed up the sun someday) for them to be started back up again from the database.
It would probably be cheaper for them to replicate the caching servers than to ever read from the database. Even though they probably still write to a database. I am not saying this stuff is easy or that it is relevant to most companies. However, that is what makes it worth noting, not necessarily having or that they do it everywhere
21:08
@Magnus well, if you get anything to show me, shoot me a link and I'll take a look
@LuckyKleinschmidt honestly I have no idea to set it to 120hz... I tried to but can't find a good way to do it in linux...
I don't really care though..
@rlemon Perfect, thanks a lot!
user1596138
@DavidKamer Score 1 for windows ay?
user1596138
;P
user1596138
I've never used a real GPU in Linux. No need. I run my integrated over there
21:11
@LuckyKleinschmidt not really. it worked but caused bugs in windows which is somewhat worse, and I can edit a few settings on linux and tweak it just right, but I don't have the patience lol
@LuckyKleinschmidt let it die
user1596138
Let what die? We're having a nice conversation dude
user1596138
Imma just shrink you. All we do is confuse and antagonize each other apparently. Never had a useful convo together :P
@LuckyKleinschmidt I use a proprietary extenal gpu dock with a laptop and I just install the nvidia proprietary driver for linux
it works fine
user1596138
@DavidKamer Oh you've got alienware right?
21:16
@Rick If you wanna keep moving the goal posts then I won't keep playing. Have a nice evening
@LuckyKleinschmidt yep. I think I'll do System76 next
I know that the Windows operating system has that minority angst. Being on so on few devices this year and on even fewer devices next year would make me feel vulnerable too.
user1596138
Gross
Does Linux feature windows on its kernel.
@Rick it'd probably be illegal and pointless lol
you can install powershell though
21:18
O wait it's the other way around. windows features Linux on it's kernel
I do have windows on a vm though
@DavidKamer you don't have to do that much. they have a switch in the windows setting to turn on Linux subsystem.
@Rick I don't use windows and I think WSL is just embrace extend extinguish
probably will result in the first ever virus that effects linux lol
> first ever virus that effects linux
ummmm
@DavidKamer it's sarcasm. windows users don't even want windows.
21:23
I want an os that works the way i expect it to
@rlemon I was using hyperbole
windows fits the bill
is it because i've always used windows? absolutely
@KevinB to each their own. That's the same reason I switched to Linux..
i think there were other reasons involved
@KevinB used to feel the exact same way.. Windows just lost it's usability for me when I got really serious with stuff. I think there a things you can do on Windows that are alot easier, but doing multiple types of development was just easier and safer on Linux. Also I liked running the same system I used server side for testing locally and getting predictable results
21:25
"safer"
lol
"easier", for me, I need access to microsoft products to access information/data that is given to me by other people i work with who also use windows. Yeah, sure, there's ways around that, but it's so much more convenient to just open excel, or open photoshop, or whatever other application i happen to need.
@KevinB What do you think is less safe with Linux?
?
you said it was safer on linux, not me
@KevinB yeah, so what do you think isn't "safer"?
i think that's a bogus argument
plain and simple
it is meaningless
@KevinB photoshop is a good reason, but I'd use a mac for that in a perfect situation
21:29
mac has the same problems as linux
@KevinB ok, what are they?
it has an excel alternative
but it's no where near microsoft excel
it's like comparing gimp and photoshop
We do use linux for our webservers
user1596138
I know I've done a lot of OT here today but
you can install microsoft office on linux if you really want
user1596138
Why is a 1tb SSD cheaper in m.2 factor vs 2.5"
21:30
yeah
@LuckyKleinschmidt isn't m.2 faster?
i've ran WoW on linux before
it "worked"
user1596138
NVMe is faster.
user1596138
M.2 is a form factor
user1596138
I am specifically asking about Sata (6gb/s) M.2 and 2.5"
21:32
even did a full 20man raid with it lol. it was choppy as hell and had screwy graphics, but it worked
@TylerH I'm not here to play. I am here to have fun and learn. I might troll on occasion but I am never adversarial. You don't have to believe everything I say but hopefully, I leanred something from you, and you learned something from me. And the bad parts we can both leave behind. Good luck dude.
doesn't make it ideal
found a bug with Mojave
they forgot to delete an alias
lol
@KevinB I mean you could also use the web apps. If you really need to use spreadsheets on excel then by all means, but I don't really know why anyone would absolutely need to. I think most enterprise solutions for payments and what not use proprietary software. Any newer business probably wouldn't need or want to be stuck with excel file fromats, but that is my opinion and very subjective
When comparing linux and windows as dev environment, i only see downsides with linux
21:33
@KevinB how?
if you want to use linux, you have to jump through hoops to do the things you can do with windows. If you want to use windows, there's nothing you can do in linux that you can't do in windows.
@KevinB not true...
user1596138
@KevinB What about jumping through hoops to run Windows apps?
user1596138
I've never seen someone do that on Windows
i mean, you can run a vm in windows of linux with wine installed
user1596138
21:34
@DavidKamer do tell
Windows has almost always been more difficult when it comes to development. no package manager.
it doesn't need one
they block everything or make things really hard to do.
@LuckyKleinschmidt I can adjust anything without breaking the law
and it's made to do it
how did you download python before they had an msi
user1596138
21:35
Sharing software on windows: Hey here's a exe
user1596138
Sharing software on Linux: lol okay so first install Python
which version?
apt and other package managers are worth it alone
idk man, I just ship a .deb
done and done
:D
user1596138
If only other people would do that :O
21:36
2.7
the fact that you are navigating to a site and downloading a file from the website seems ridiculous to me now
so many things were out of reach on until recently on windows
@rlemon luckly there is a local package manager for that galled gdebi
how about build binaries, that was hell on windows
doesn't your ide do that for you?
21:38
ide does not do anything
I don't think navigating to a site to download something is in anyway convenient.
subjective, people might prefer that vs trying to find the ppa location.
if it's not in the registry
I haven't heard any downsides that aren't just opinions
@Rick yeah I'd have to agree on this. I'm not sure what you mean @KevinB unless you're talking about something like android studio
heck, even muddling with a registry might be enough to turn people off
21:40
@KevinB as the chinese say, same same
@rlemon I'd agree to an extent, but 90% of the applications I use are in the ubuntu repos
i mean... not being able to open an excel doc isn't an opinion
that's just fact
they make it hard to get access to the GPU. Windows makes development feel like hell. nothing is strate forward and everything is hidden behind some magic door like msconfig
having ppa's has better tracking then downloading a binary off the interent though..
@DavidKamer and maybe 90% of the apps Kevin uses are already at an arms reach
tbf i don't even use excel
21:41
@DavidKamer but you literally are just downloading it from the internet
except not from a browser, from your terminal
@rlemon how though? I was speaking to how it's done
i open it in google docs because this pc doesn't have the resources to run more than chrome + my ide
Right, so, you're downloading it from a repository. what happens when that repository doesn't have it, or it's out of date?
you find another repository, set it up, or, you go to the web and find a url
@KevinB I'd think that the ability to use any app is an opinion. It's like saying "I can't put candy crush on my pc so it's garbage" It's just not designed that way.
the app that is
I didn't bring up games
revisit your driver argument with that mentality ^^ :P
or was that Rick
this conversation has taken wild turns today
21:44
games not being compatible is quite a different argument
@KevinB does it matter what app it is? That difference of "games" is cosmetic
it does matter
because we're discussing this in the context of development
it's a cosmetic difference that you only care about because you don't like video games.
games aren't built to support linux because the market doesn't use it
Excel isn't for development is it?
21:45
that says nothing about linux vs windows
Depends on what kind of development you do
If your job is to literally sit there and write code all day, probably not
I'm saying that picking an os based on one specific application speaks much more about the app and nothing about the os
but it's not even about just that one application
I can't run the iPhone phone app on my desktop that's why I don't use it as an iPhone?
at any point in time i might be expected to have x or y to be able to do z
there's almost always a windows version
that isn't the case for linux
@KevinB I can say the same for windows about certain linux programs. but that's less true because you can build from source when something is open source
21:49
That would be true, if the people i worked with also used linux
but... i mean, here we are
@KevinB I believe the tied's are turning. Give it 4 more years.
haha
YAYAYAYAY
I am serious. Linux is democratising software
I GOT JABBER TO WORK ON MOJAVE MESSAGES
21:50
@KevinB you've got to use what you've got to use, but all I'm saying is it isn't always a good idea to pick an OS based on one set of applications or even a single application.
look at all the android games
i don't pick windows for a single or a set of applications
That's my point. you will have more verity on Linux since everyone can build software on it for free. it makes more sense that it will eventually dominate.
I pick windows because it does the job better. It doesn't get in my way, it doesn't impede me in any way shape or form regardless of what task comes my way. I don't have to work with it to get it to support x y or z, i don't have to find a repository to install things that i need, I don't have to convert things into formats that other people who use windows can use, the list goes on and on
Linux is great for very specific tasks
@KevinB I'm literally using Linux for the same reason.
21:52
if all you do is program
it's great at that
@KevinB and ssh imo
agreed
literally no config for ssh
those are two things i don't need in windows
i have putty
it does the job
doesn't get in the way, doesn't impede my work, i just double click the icon, click open, and i'm connected
i can even do it from powershell or cmd if i like
and I like it better for running vms. In my experience I get more out of my harddware running vms on linux
21:54
this pc can't run vm's
@KevinB it probably could with linux
at least one
doubtful
i mean
it can probalby run 1 with windows
"run"
if you like to work with 1gb of ram
you should switch to linux if you have bad specs. There is less bloat
there's less everything
Linux always runs better on worse hardware than windows
@KevinB more is always better? ;)
21:56
when its' things you need, yes
Windows only make sense when the few hold all the cards. They can bully other companies and crush creativity in favor of bureaucracy. Guess what. When Microsoft fails they fail big, they layoff 50 thousand people or some god awful number recently. if some small company fails only a couple of people are laid off.
@KevinB ok, what's something you need on windows that you can't get on linux that isn't exactly one app made by Adobe or Microsoft?
there isn't one
you can literally run any windows program in linux if you try hard enough
@Rick exactly. Any enterprise app that works only on windows should be put on a VM that runs windows on a Linux server
@KevinB same goes for windows I guess
I think it's opinion based at this point
mostly
but you cant deny the numbers
21:59
@KevinB what that Linux is more widely used regardless of the type of device?
I mean you can say that "phones don't count" but my favorite youtuber uses his android phone as a desktop pc half the time
No, that there's far more applications that support windows out of the box
IDC that every tiny little device out there that you can think of that runs linux exists
i don't care that cars run linux
it's irrelevant
those arent PC's
they are irrelevant to my choice of OS
@KevinB If it was relevant i'd expect you to use a mac lol
I dont' choose my applications based on popularity
@KevinB I'd think you probably would not say that considering your argument is that windows has more apps because it's popular and that is why you use windows lol
That is simply the cause of the situation we are in
22:03
I actually do: popular applications get more support due to more people actually using it. So choosing applications based on popularity means it is probably better for the future, even though it might be inferior.
There are far more people using windows, therefore apps will almost always favor windows
I don't see any reason for that to change in the near future, windows is only getting better
@KevinB yikes. I think chrome books might actually start getting really popular.
I am not saying Windows is no good. Dictatorships are efficient, they can marshal resources toward some single-minded goal and they do it well, but only in the short run. Openness transparency and rational discourse go the distance. Linux will go the distance for these reasons. However, Microsoft has been a good king but his rule has come to an end. We need to evolve.
among who?
I disagree with that statement ("therefore apps will almost always favor windows"): most applications are not meant for "everyone", rather they are build for a niche: and that niche might very well not use windows (server admins for example).
22:05
@KevinB a lot of schools are giving them to kids. Windows is popular because people are used to it, you said that yourself. Google is smart and kids are learning to use Chomebooks and subsequently they are learning how to use linux
BUT
all major companies use linux, not windows
Linux is basically working every angle at this point besides enterprise IT
All major companies use both
Point is moot: everything will be cloud based in the future and run through a browser.
@KevinB Google?
I did not know that huh
22:07
I can absolutely guarentee that there is a computer somewhere in at least one of their buildings running windows
it is unavoidable
@KevinB that's not what I meant...
@KevinB I think there is an app for that now
I always find it weird: asp.net is quite popular, mostly the language of choice for students when learning about mvc/servers. On the other hand the "docker" technology is also shining and gaining traction, yet they combine horribly. (Docker really likes it's linux os, where the kernel can be shared and you can make small images, asp.net works best on windows).
you see what I just did there.
22:09
@paul23 yeah I think that ASP.net is really a thing because of small to mid size IT
Just one of those things where it's easier to stay the same than to change
And to put it frankly: for larger applications I think asp.net will outshine javascript in the field of maintenance and codebase clarity. I find c# much better at encapsulation and splitting of responsiblities...
i think it's more because of the partnerships between the universities and microsoft.
the educational programs/discounts that microsoft provides
$$
@KevinB I know for a fact all universities here pride themselves on not having such partnerships.
@KevinB probably to some extent. Not the case for places like MIT and I think Purdue (not sure on that)
Definitely was the case when I went through college
22:11
they use asp.net (and java) due to the language strong typing and forcing students to think about what data should be private/public etc.
@paul23 I disagree. Use something like typescript
roughly 10 years ago
@DavidKamer it's still easy to poke through the permissions.. Typiscript is more akin to python, but you still need to adhere to the "we're all adults here" mentality. If you get to the size where the company is so large that one part of the devs doesn't even know the other devs working on the server application...
I don't have any comment interms of language x vs y, not enough experience in the other languages
my college course taught using asp, but asp itself wasn't the focus
You'll have to truly enforce data encapsulation then; and what better point than having a language that supports this natively.
I'm thinking about groups where you have like 40-50 engineers working on a single server application; where you can't have a meeting between all engineers and have to work by means of subdivisions.
22:15
I'd only say that there are probably groups out there using Node.js for the same reason you think C# is better because JS lets you approach things how you see fit rather than only in a certain way.
@paul23 yeah idk really.
I'd do it with packages
it's not hard to define specifications on how things should be approached with JS such that a team can follow similar pattern of production
@KevinB why do you think so?
the tooling available today makes it so
Oh sure, but I wonder what those really large groups would do; it seems the current 'modern' languages don't really help there. - And if you have to adhere to "company specifications" which are just a way to say "use strong typing and data encapsulation", wouldn't a language that supports those be better?
Instead of relying on tools/runtime checks/code reviews.
idk, I think it's preference
22:19
Both are viable options
It's just that for linux systems I'm kind of forced to either use a real "modern" language such as python or javascript. Or go the truly old fashioned way and write in C(++), there seems to be a large gap where you have languages not focussed on speed per se and has modern features; Yet a language that is popular.
coldfusion is a rather poor choice, considering the lack of available resources compared to most modern languages. but comparing C# and JS? meh
I just found that there are dockers for windows, but do those still share the memory etc, or are those basically VM's with a docker stamp on them?
i don't recall
@paul23 I'm not sure what that means lol. Either you use a low level language or a high level language? Isn't that always the choice lol
22:29
@paul23 it uses type-one hypervisors
afaict if you're running Linux containers, they'll all share one Hyper-V vm
23:26
Is it bad form to npm link to yourself? Like, say my package is @foo/bar - and I link with npm link && npm link @foo/bar. Then in my package I use require('@foo/bar/bang/quack')
is that weird, or a good thing?
as far as i'm aware npm link is just for testing
ultimately you want to publish @foo/bar properly
user8871181
Can someone point me in the right direction for the following:
Consider this JSFiddle: https://jsfiddle.net/j3d7zo1w/27/

What might I have to do in order to detect if the userBox is highlighting at least part of `desktop-icon`? I only want a hint - not an entire solution ;)
23:41
google rectangle collision detection/overlap detection
@david so it's considered proper/preferred to use relative requires instead of the package name? I haven't found any good guides for it in my 10 minutes or so googling around
user8871181
Oh rip.. MDN is linking to a JSFiddle that does not exist:
http://jsfiddle.net/knam8/ from this page: https://developer.mozilla.org/kab/docs/Games/Techniques/2D_collision_detection
23:59
works on the english site
it's a wiki, so you can update it with the proper links

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