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8:02 PM
sounds about right
 
we're all towc
this room is just me talking to my socks, pretending to have friends
 
Some guys suggesting to use regex to do a DOM query and set the innerText stackoverflow.com/questions/50805201/…
People make me want to die
 
@ndugger That didn't make you want to die?
 
Oh, he deleted his comment
 
@ndugger did an event make it get to a close, or have you been thinking about it for a while
 
8:06 PM
I want to die less now
 
I tried to give up a few times, and it seemed to be working for maybe half a day every time, and then I'm right back to where I started
 
@towc I mean, we got really drunk one night, made out in a pub, things were going really well for a couple of weeks, then she got sick and basically stopped messaging me entirely, and when I brought up the absence in communication, she got mad at me for not giving her space.
Well, now a few weeks have gone by without any indication on how she's doing, what she wants, etc, and it's just not fair for her to expect me to just be completely cool about it for a few weeks. I think at this point she should at least say no, she doesn't like me, or give me a small update to say how she's doing.
 
when was the last time you communicated?
 
So I messaged her an essay this morning telling her that I'm frustrated with the way she's been [not] handling "us", and of course she's mad again because I'm not giving her time
Like, woman, is a few weeks not enough time for you to even just say "hi"?
 
I've been in a similar situation before
 
8:10 PM
I mean, you could have written "hi" instead of an essay
but I'm sure you've been beating yourself over it enough times by now
 
I have been
 
They don't want to say 'yes' or 'no', they just want to keep you waiting at arm's reach
 
I had sent a few messages here and there that were just random friendly things, like about my dog, or about the weather, trying to get her to reply
 
@forresthopkinsa that's a dangerous generalization
 
But she responds when it's a long essay calling her out, lol
I'm so done
 
8:11 PM
@towc does that not sound like what's going on here?
 
@ndugger you didn't ask for my opinion, but to me it looks like you're really not done
 
@ndugger at some point I think we've got to take responsibility for knowing all this shit and people still getting it wrong and improve the web platform and its docs.
 
user1596138
@forresthopkinsa What he meant to say is that is "unwelcoming" and we don't do that
 
At least it's better than wanting to die.
 
grab a drink, and when you wake up tomorrow, you'll probably forgive her everything
 
8:12 PM
oh I didn't mean "they" as in "women", I just meant it as a gender-neutral pronoun for the "other person" in a relationship lol
I think men are probably just as susceptible to this as women
 
user1596138
So you meant to say everyone
 
that's why I said "they", because I feel like it's a common issue
basically yeah
 
@forresthopkinsa honestly, not really
 
user1596138
I'll leave this be but I don't think we do relationship talk here for a reason
 
@towc you don't know the full story; it's full of 2.5 years of going well, then she disappears, or going really well, then she runs back to her abusive (now ex) boyfriend. It's a long pattern of the same thing over and over again
So I called her out on it being the same exact shit, just for a different reason this time, but apparently I'm the bad guy
 
8:14 PM
and you're still there after 2.5 years
 
She's just not sane
I mean, neither am I
 
that means something. And it's not just that you're dumb
 
hey how about that weather
 
but we're not good for eachother
The weather sucks today
 
@ndugger communication is hard <3
 
8:14 PM
It's so overcast
 
sun is nice
 
I think it's gonna storm
 
alright I can't speak for every situation ever and I don't pretend to be a relationship counselor, but in my experience, I had to just say "Listen. I love you. But I'm not going to wait for you to keep going back and forth indefinitely. It's not fair to me. So, unless you have any objections, I'm moving on to someone who will know what they want."
 
I've been waiting 5 days for a PR D:
 
@ndugger Can I give you a piece of advice? Run away, she is poison.
 
8:14 PM
WEATHER
 
My coworkers are too . busy
 
I'll be more explicit; Kendall wants to change the topic
 
I've seen this sort of thing a few times before.
 
@KendallFrey shut up this is important
 
don't you shush me
 
8:15 PM
@KendallFrey would you like us to change topic?
 
guess
 
Dude it fucking rained so hard here yesterday
I turned off my PC
 
You are entitled to ask, but you have to ask explicitly.
 
I feel like this is a reasonable conversation
 
I agree ^
 
8:15 PM
I would prefer the topic change, if that's ok. It's reasonable, but it's happened before.
However, if you disagree I will not enforce it unless it devolves
 
Ok, let's change topics then or take it to another room.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum As of this morning, I sent her a bit essay detailing it all out, and she responded that she'll read it later, but that she's mad. So yeah, it's a nightmare, but I basically did end it this morning
I'm done
 
Nah, if a conversation makes 2 ROs feel uncomfortable let's take it elsewhere.
 
the sun is a star
 
<3 @ndugger you deserve better
 
8:16 PM
@ndugger you're a star
 
the problem with most other relationship talks is that I was the subject of it, no need to stop other ones
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum it's a reasonable conversation, I have no problem stepping away for a bit since I do not have an on topic topic :)
 
@towc that's not how it works
 
No dude it's fine, that's the reason we have this rule.
 
I just don't want you guys to think I only popped in to shut you down
 
8:17 PM
@towc we have decided to allow ROs to opt to not have conversations about topics they consider with a drama potential. I think it's a reasonable policy but if you disagree take it to the culture repo.
 
This room has been dead anyways
 
Yeah, rough week :D
I did a podcast, that was fun although they sort of misrepresented me since it was not JavaScript specific.
 
Unfortunately dead room has done wonders for my work ethic.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I didn't see that issue. It probably wasn't open to plebs like me
 
What issue? You'd have to open one for a policy change
I'm going to vote against it - because traditionally people have been using this policy very reasonably, including in this case.
 
8:19 PM
I just haven't had the willpower to talk in here unless something javascript was being talked about. So if I haven't responded to anybody, it's not personal. I'm doing it to everybody for my own benefit
 
oh sure, it's reasonable, I just don't like it when I'm assumed to know something I can't really know
or wait, maybe it was in the room rules
I'll go hide in the corner now
 
Did you join the depression club? We don't ever meet, and we hardly ever talk, but we're here
 
have you ever met someone that was continuously happy for a full week?
by continuously, i mean no more than 3 second intervals where you could categorize them as "sad" or "meh"
 
My shrink told me often to not shoot for happiness, and just shoot for contentment
My shrink moved away, so now I need to get a new one
 
@SterlingArcher can i have discord
 
8:21 PM
Try meditation
 
didn't your shrink hand you over to another shrink? I thought they had to do that
 
lol
 
Did wonders for me, I talked about meditation in the Node.js summit - turns out everyone in a high stress position does it
I'm looking for a therapist too
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum but they're still highly stressed, right?
 
I haven't been able to find one, but I have a lot of shit to work out with a qualified person. Sometimes I don't do things I need to do and don't know why.
 
8:22 PM
"everyone in a high stress position does it" slightly odd statement there
 
@towc they're not, I'm not too.
@KendallFrey in the summit obviously, not everywhere in the world.
Sorry if that wasn't clear.
 
which summit
 
huh
 
Everest?
 
node summit
 
8:23 PM
G7?
what is a node summit
is that a fancy new word for a conference
 
I assume
 
missed opportunity to call it G8
 
GR8
 
wow even better
 
oh wait, we changed topic
 
8:28 PM
To answer your question, there is no plan now. It's over. Time to move on like a normal person.
 
shush, I facebooked you
 
@forresthopkinsa You need Russia for that
 
@KendallFrey exploring any interesting maths stuff?
 
well i had a funny thought the other day
 
I don't believe you
 
8:30 PM
do you know anything about the different levels of multiverse
 
don't think so
 
well basically, a level 4 multiverse is the "real" existence of every possible mathematically/logically consistent fact
 
I've seen enough flash to understand the multiverse
 
so then i wondered what if there are other multiverses
with different rules
other than the rules of logic
 
that aren't logically consistent?
I honestly have no clue how that could work
there would be no way to measure what's going on, even if you were right in it
there would be no things going on
 
8:32 PM
they wouldn't be logically contradictory either
"going on" is a kind of thing that happens in our multiverse only
 
how would you describe it?
is it something you can even describe?
 
well I just did
as best as I can
 
describing involves reporting patterns
in a place with no rules, patterns don't really emerge
so you can't really describe what's in it
so what's there to think about?
 
Basically, I imagines the level 4 multiverse as an entity. Then imagined another entity, but different
 
not saying there isn't anything to think about, but I can't think of things to think about
 
8:34 PM
but "entity" surely is something that can only exist in our mathematical reality
 
user1596138
I;m thinking about the pisspoor bug assigned to me
 
not outside it
 
user1596138
> Coose a list ( I chose cos co Oma Rec 40)
 
so idk what else to think
 
well, it is a funny thought
 
user1596138
8:35 PM
What's worse is 3 hours ago they asked and I confirmed it wasn't even a UI bug :)
 
I think that rules are a fundamental part of any possible "thing"
you can have all possible rules
 
@KendallFrey If I'm understanding what you're saying, I think there actually is a way for that to happen. The universal constants could change in a different universe.
 
and if you have an absence of rules, things just break, and that's fine
time doesn't go on, there's no way for it to affect other things
 
somebody here who is familar with react native?
 
@Allenph no, that would be part of our multiverse
 
8:38 PM
Also I think the higgs field can theoretically quantum jump to another energy state; it's not at its lowest energy state.
 
The multiverse (or meta-universe) is a hypothetical group of multiple separate universes including the universe in which humans live. Together, these universes comprise everything that exists: the entirety of space, time, matter, energy, the physical laws and the constants that describe them. The different universes within the multiverse are called the "parallel universes", "other universes" or "alternative universes". == History of the concept == In his book, Opticks (1704), Isaac Newton suggested the idea of a multiverse: And since Space is divisible in infinitum, and Matter is not necessarily...
 
have a very special problem but i dont know how to ask it at stackoverflow
 
As Wikipedia lists, that would be a level 2 multiverse
 
So you mean the like overall rules are completely different.
 
8:39 PM
which rules
 
There in lies a Euthyphro Dilemma type question.
 
i have the problem that i have an error in normal mode but in debug mode it works fine
 
@KendallFrey it's not a conference, it's the core team doing a bunch of meetings and drinking beer with each other to talk about technical differences.
 
Which question?
 
Would there be a set of rules governing whatever the multiverses are in is in or would it be like...recursive?
 
8:39 PM
We got async stack traces in V8 for production from it.
 
hello?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum So, a meetup :P
 
There was a conference - JSConf, but that wasn't the summit.
 
@Allenph Recursive in what way?
 
how can i find the problem?
 
8:40 PM
It's not a meetup, meetups have talks usually. It's just a bunch of people doing a bunch of meetings un the same subject.
 
user1596138
!!define summit
 
@KTWorks good for you.
 
If universe A and B are siblings, is there a parent set of rules which governed their existence? @KendallFrey
 
It's not like I came up with the name lol
 
Talking about multiverses makes me uncomfortable; let's talk about the weather.
 
8:41 PM
i created a repo github.com/guitar9/hafas-client-example with the example
 
user1596138
I don't think "summit" transfers to other types of meetups
 
There are families of universes, no doubt
 
@Allenph no, all universes are just there, there is no sibling relationship.
 
much like the 4 levels
 
Well, then the problem just shifts @KendallFrey.
 
user1596138
8:41 PM
Summit is a very specific type of meeting
 
user1596138
</pedantic>
 
That's the recursion I was talking about.
 
although I wouldn't say they are related
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum That is a deeply unsatisfying answer.
 
ok I think here arent interested programmers only people who want to talk trash ^
 
8:41 PM
causally or whatever
 
I can completely grasp the entirety of what the 5th dimension must be, if the 4th is time, but I can't fathom anything beyond that.
 
Neither can I but that doesn't stop me from pretending to imagine I can
@Allenph Which problem?
 
@KTWorks Just because we don't want to answer your extremely vague question doesn't mean we're not programmers.
 
@Allenph Imagine an axis and the universes are based around it and the axis controls one characteristic, now imagine an axis for each charactaristic. The points (0.1, 0.2) and (0.2, 0.3) aren't siblings.
 
@ndugger well, you can have non-graphic ways to describe it
 
8:43 PM
In fact, there are infinitely many points between them if we're working with the field R
 
Right, but I want to actually fathom and visualize what it is
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Sure, but the graph itself then has behavior which governs the universes.
 
user1596138
@KTWorks We all know each others capabilities, want to show us that YOU are a real programmer? You may have a language barrier because your message comes off quite hostile.
 
Which is what I'm talking about.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I think a tree describes it better, where each branch consists of one possible set of axioms
The way I see it, axioms are the foundation on which the bricks of reality are laid
Excuse me while I go dream I'm a butterfly
 
8:45 PM
@Jhawins yes my english is not so good i am from germany. I dont want to attack you
 
user1596138
@KendallFrey I mean... By definition yea?
 
@KendallFrey There's been several times we've thought that we found the fundamental root axioms in the universe.
 
oh really?
 
user1596138
@Allenph I must not understand the context. What do you mean? Example?
 
laws of physics != axioms
 
8:46 PM
I wonder if it's just an endless recursion of never ending rules increasing in subtly and complexity.
 
@Allenph there are multiple universes, the graph is just a graph.
 
It's all turtles
 
@KTWorks the room rules state that people here are not obligated to help you. For example, I saw that your github link didn't explain what was wrong, and didn't use technologies I'm familiar with. The best you can do is ask your question as clearly as possible, with your error message, and a small snippet where the problem lies.
 
@KendallFrey it's not a tree since there are infinitely many branches and everything is "connected" to everything close to it.
 
@KendallFrey Sure...but what's an axiom then? If your universes can have different truths then...
 
8:47 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum to me that sounds like a tree
 
What is the truth above those truths?
 
Posting a github link and asking multiple times tends to make people ignore the question
 
user1596138
An axiom is an idea...
 
@KendallFrey wait, are we talking about actual theories of multiverses or just cool concepts?
 
user1596138
A premise
 
8:47 PM
@KendallFrey did you ever think that maybe no matter how deep we go, we'll always find some more general thing that puts together a bunch of the other rules we've seen?
and not just because we're "not there yet", but because there just isn't an end
 
@Jhawins A premise that can be reasoned about and found to be inherently true.
 
@Allenph Inconsistent systems of axioms do not exist. All other system of axioms do exist.
 
@Allenph yes but i am really in despair. Because i dont where the problem is and it is only not in debug mode
know
 
It's all quarks and strings, my mans
 
user1596138
@Allenph Axioms are inherently true?
 
8:48 PM
@KTWorks Post code.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Mostly, the mathematical universe hypothesis
 
and the laws of physics we see are just emergent patterns of other meaningless laws?
 
@Jhawins I wouldn't say so
 
user1596138
> a statement or proposition that is regarded as being established, accepted, or self-evidently true.
 
Oh, by the way who recommended "How Randomness Rules our Lives"?
 
8:49 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum As far as I'm concerned we're rationalizing our way through some kind of pseudoscience as a thought experiment. :p
 
user1596138
@KendallFrey I wouldn't either...
 
@Allenph ah, if it's pseudoscience then a tree works
 
i'use strict'

const createHash = require('create-hash')
let captureStackTrace = () => {}
if (process.env.NODE_DEBUG === 'hafas-client') {
	captureStackTrace = require('capture-stack-trace')
}
const {stringify} = require('query-string')
const Buffer = require('buffer-ponyfill')
const Promise = require('pinkie-promise')
const {fetch} = require('fetch-ponyfill')({Promise})

const md5 = input => createHash('md5').update(input).digest()

const request = (profile, data) => {
	const body = profile.transformReqBody({lang: 'en', svcReqL: [data]})
 
Why are you using pinkie-promise?
 
user1596138
I'd like to think there is a root, one premise or fact that cascades into all others
 
8:50 PM
If any of you care to read the background for my musings, Our Mathematical Universe by Max Tegmark.
 
here i get error unrecongnized token in JSON '?'
 
user1596138
But that's just because of how we do science
 
Why aren't you using async/await @KTWorks? Does this need to run on Node.js 0.12 or something?
 
@Jhawins There are some quantum processes that do not have a chain of causality if I'm not mistaken.
 
it runs in react native
 
8:51 PM
If I'm right then you probably don't get your wish.
 
@Allenph Can you elaborate?
 
@KTWorks then use async/await and all the good stuff :D
React Native also has fetch IIRC
 
user1596138
I don't exactly mean causality
 
@KendallFrey Let me Google. I think I remember something about this when I was reading about Bell's Theorems.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I still prefer full-fledged promises to async/await
but I'm weird, so
 
8:51 PM
the weird thing that it works in debug mode
 
@KTWorks also, probably your backend is returning bad JSON, use the inspector and tick 'pause debugger on uncaught exceptions'.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum 0.12 is reserved for using serialports :P
 
@Allenph local realism maybe?
 
Then you're getting different JSON from the server, you can --inspect in production.
 
quantum mechanics is deterministic and local, IIRC
 
8:52 PM
yes i debugged it. And the request is in normal mode is not the same than the in the debug mode
 
@towc I'd like to give a formal statement. The Node.js project officially does not care that you like promises over async/await. We will develop all future tooling to work with async/await and not "raw" promises and any debugging wins you may get will be coincidental.
 
@KendallFrey I was right; Bell's inequalities.
 
This is the official opinion of the Node.js project :D
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum oh, that's good to know
also bad for me. But good to know
 
@Allenph What do those have to do with violating causality?
 
for example i have somerwhere invalid date or the the checksum from create-hash is different
 
Yes, I've watched that a couple times
 
Pretty sure either this video or the math sibling of it talks about it.
 
@KTWorks you can attach a debugger in production too. You can also catch the exception and log the object to see what invalid JSON there is. Be sure to look at the stack trace.
 
Just because two events are not causally connected doesn't mean they don't have causal chains
 
8:54 PM
@KendallFrey You'd have to have a hidden variable.
 
I have no idea why you say that
 
I can't remember the details, but a part of the Bell Inequalities disproves that you even could have such a variable.
 
@Allenph there is no concept of siblings between most things in Math, some things form a metric space (and distance exists) or even a norm (and then there is a meaning to where you are in the space).
 
i have stringifyed it and showed coppied it to the clipboard
 
The cause of both events is the source of entangled particles
they're not directly causally connected, but they share a common cause
 
8:56 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum btw, is this based on a poll about usage of async/await over raw, a prediction, or what else?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum with debug mode i mean when i shake my phone and go to debug mode and look at localhost... When i stop debug mode it does not work
 
I mean, a poll wouldn't be fair, because you'll always get the old farts pushing the language back
 
@towc the decision of me, Anna and Reuben from the Node.js side and Benedikt and Maya on the V8 side as well as a discussion we've had.
 
a prediction would be reasonable, although someone (like me) is going to dislike it
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I'm not the greatest at the math part.
I more like the philosophy part. Trying to learn though.
 
8:57 PM
I have already created an issue 2 weeks ago github.com/public-transport/hafas-client/issues/56
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum sure, but what's that based on? I'm not challenging it. I'm just curious
 
@Allenph Math is fun, be careful to make statements about it which you can't prove. If you've never tried doing college level courses in Math they're quite fun.
 
this project is to look at train stations and trains when they come and go to a station
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I'm just regurgitating. The bit about the tree was just me trying to rationalize it and ask questions, not trying to make assertions.
 
@towc user surveys, GitHub repo surveys, StackOverflow questions stats, JavaScript usage surveys and how we all write code. We also spent about 4 hours with 20 other people discussing how people use promises.
 
8:58 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum The way I see it, the reals are a descendant of the rationals, and a sibling to the complex numbers. You get them by adding additional axioms.
 
^ I made one of those polarized lens things just for shits and giggles. Every time I look at it and try and figure it out I just go "WTF?"
 
@Allenph I'm sorry if I sound judgmental. I was just handing out advice and trying to provoke you to trying higher education Math which is a lot funner and less tedious than high school math.
@KendallFrey what Axiom do you need to get the complex numbers?
 
i^2 = -1, I think
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum that's still really vague. Were the surveys about "would you prefer more tooling based on async/await rather than promises", or something else? Do people use promises badly, and they wouldn't with async/await?
 

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