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04:01
@littlepootis clever using js.org to host your site
hadn't seen anyone really use it before
@William ha, just their subdomain
js.org is underused
@William try JW.org
almost as cool as mormon.org
What did tbe homless man get for Christmas?
04:04
I give up
Nothing.
sorry googled it before you post.
still a little funny
We can give them hope.
who can help me with finding the fastest 8gb memory for my ram? :/
imagines a raid0 of 1GB flash drives
04:09
@qaispak that does not make sense
I know. I am just annoyed with all this reading. Find it boring :(
it gets cached then the "ram speed" becomes irrelevant
Get an SSD too
@qaispak what motherboard have you decided on
SSD is a good idea
honestly, I have to read more to "decide" on one. So far I am looking at this:
ASRock Z170 Pro4S LGA 1151 Intel Z170 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
04:11
Id suggest an SSD and a HDD
@qaispak check the motherboard capabilities, it will tell you the max memory clock that they tested
this is just based on the cpu I kind of wanted.
the limit is often intel's limit, you have to overclock the uncore to exceed that
motherboard manual will say the one that's certified to work, it will be the highest one that doesnt say (O.C.)
intel's uncore can be safely overclocked but if data is important, I wouldn't, I suggest sticking with max certified clock
I see I'll keep that in mind
I've had enough of reading about building PC's for now.. urgh
at first I thought you thought different addresses were different speeds, lol - js dev perspective
which 8gb is faster, lol
in reality the heap in js is constrained and can't be a huge amount of memory
in node you can allocate lots of buffers but they are not really on js heap
04:23
@qaispak if you are not overclocking you can get a H170 instead of the Z
ASRock H170 Performance LGA 1151 Intel H170 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
@qaispak this tells you the differences in the 1151 series en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_chipsets#LGA_1151
This one?
Alright. :)
I like buying overclocker boards and running all defaults. lasts forever
yeah i am pretty sure Z allows you to overclock while H doesn't
same with the intel CPUs, the ones ending in K are unlocked
04:25
$msg = "warning, it's true!"; echo '<script type="text/javascript">alert("' . $msg . '"); </script>';Andreas 15 hours ago
"defaults" on a modern memory controller, is amazing
kindky some body answer this question
i'm no expert though :) e.g. i don't know if getting overclocker boards and leaving them stock is better or same
That's ... not a question
-2
Q: displaying a message as pop up when my condition is true

Waqas_aamerI need a pop up message whenever this if conditions run. Code below is here Code is this <?php if(isset($session->data['GlobalMessage'])) { ?> <div class="errors"> <?php echo $session->data['GlobalMessage']; unset($session->da...

sorry this the question
04:27
... and the question the answer the comment is under is under is too broad.
one thing i don't know is if it's worth getting an i7 over an i5 for run of the mill development
> Today I wanted to burn a lot of calories, so I found a fat kid and lit him on fire
@JanDvorak i dont understand what you have said??
@qaispak logicalincrements.com this is a fantastic site for looking at what experts reckon are decent builds
huh... who upvoted this?
04:29
i don't know about that
...sure.
i have used this for login. now i dont how to trigger the a tag when the global message is set
could you help me please
@RyanAllen That looks like a really nice website. Unfortunately, I feel like the builds are for gaming PC's :(
One does not simply trigger a tag, though one could possibly try to trigger its default action by pretending to click on the element the tag encodes.
@qaispak Make a game
@JanDvorak haha. Good idea!
04:33
@qaispak you are building a computer for programming?
@RyanAllen programming: which means having eclipse and browsers open smoothly on a linux setup
or maybe visual studio
@qaispak in that case i would get a better cpu and ram, i run visual studio with resharper and it is only using 7gb total so far, so 16 would be more than you need for sure
i don't know for sure but an i3 or i5 would be perfectly fine
My IDE uses 50mb
so budget might be i3 with 8gb of ram and nicer might be i5 with 16gb of ram
my IDE + IIS uses 300 MB
04:36
@littlepootis that's great if you live in 1995 sure
buy a laptop if you can. They aren't that much more expensive.
@RyanAllen or use vim
@William too small
@littlepootis i use vsvim and that extension probably takes up more than 50mb of ram
@littlepootis you can always get an extra screen
the thing about ram is... it doesn't matter how much stuff takes up, it matters if you run out
04:38
@RyanAllen because vs..
i have so much ram spare i couldn't care how much ram vs takes up
Yeah I am looking at the i3 and 8gb ram one. I think I should get two monitors. Will make things smoother.
@William a 21:9 is better than a dual monitor setup
don't get me wrong i love vim :)
@littlepootis if you get a thinkpad you can have three monitors easily
04:39
Win10 provides more snapping spaces with the former
I can't use laptops. They suck at gaming. I can't play TF2.
@William i got banned from bot for playing ith her
why does getting which power supply matter ? :
:/
I was just trying to make her learn a stupid command
@thepiercingarrow ahh well I can't unban you but that is good to know.
04:41
I think ndugger banned me
:)
past midnight here... i have school tomoorrow, cya all!
bb
@qaispak try finding a pedal-powered Ferrari
I have 3 ferraris
could spare one
you are obviously joking
:(
goodnighht
04:45
haha
yes.
would i-3 with 2 8gb rams leave me with unused ram?
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2133 (PC3 17000) Desktop Memory Model F3-2133C10D-16GXM
The less RAM the better. Make sure you don't waste any.
@qaispak 16gb would be good if you want to run eclipse and/or visual studio
that coupled with
Intel Core i3-6100 3M 3.7 GHz LGA 1151 BX80662I36100 Desktop Processor
make sure you get an SSD, it's so much better than spinning drives
yeah i think that would be good
SSD is for the hard drive right? :)
04:48
yep, SSD is hard drive, if you can afford an i5 i would get that
It is embarrassing that I am a computer science student haha.
i5 has 4 cores and i3 has 2 cores
@qaispak Today you are one of the lucky 10 000
@JanDvorak lucky 16 ? :D
what is your budget for the computer?
04:50
@RyanAllen are the cores significant advantage?
do you want a laptop or a desktop?
a desktop
you may notice your computer chugging if you only have two and you are doing programming in an IDE plus having a web browser and all that stuff
and budget is under 800 with monitor(s)
04:51
that is US 800?
but flexible budget
yeah
!!s/with//
@JanDvorak and budget is under 800 monitor(s) (source)
so yeah..
hmm i'm at work i'll figure out a build for you in a few hours lol
when i get home :)
04:57
@qaispak Unused RAM is not bad. They are used for disk cache, for example. Some OS even preloads files, such as Window's superfetch.
@Sheepy In that case does the unused become used?
@RyanAllen Alright :) I am currently tracking down the things I feel might be good for me and I can share them with you to get your input on them later
my usage is at 7gb right now, if i had to do some photoshop on top it would exceed 8 probably, so i want 16 so i have headroom
In Linux you can use it as tmpfs
at home i have 32gb but.... i haven't ever seen it go above 16 :)
@qaispak But 16G ram is quite a lot. You need that to do very intensive things - things you don't want to do on an i3. Better buy an i5 with 8GB ram.
04:59
(ram was cheap when i built that pc)
@qaispak The RAM will be reported as "free", because disk cache is an OS level optimisation.
ahh I see.

But I see good rams being sold in pairs of two. This is why I went for 16 with i-5.
aah i think sheepy is right, i5 + 8 is better than i3 + 16
think I should definitely go for i-5. Price difference is little.
8gb would handle visual studio + browsers pretty well then?
You can buy 2x4GB. That's what I am using for now.
Yes. No Sweat. Your VS may even eats less RAM than your browsers.
05:04
ahh I see. my current laptop is at 4gb and does get the job done... but freezes everynow and then so it should be fine
My Firefox is at 1355MB. My NetBeans is at 770MB. SQL Server takes 3rd place at 260MB. Obviously I didn't use it much this session.
There are so many versions of the core i-5... how many ghz should I look at?
Freeze can be caused by many reasons. RAM may or may not be the cause.
Will you have a discrete graphic card?
I don't think so. not yet.
Maybe in the future but no plans for it right now. I want to use it mainly for development purposes.
You'll need one
05:07
Really? For which things?
To us, a PC without gfx is not a proper PC. Where us means I and little pootis, because we are computer gamers. ;)
haha I see.
quad channel those
on a xeon
Ced
Ced
05:10
Hey, dumb question: what time difference can I expect from localhost vs hosting a website ? should it be around 2 trips to the hosting machine ?
It's just that it would cost money and I don't use my PC for high intensity games.
Ced
Ced
like if my website loads in 600 ms on localhost, if I have a good host I an hope for sub 1s right ?
what localhost? same os as server?
Ced
Ced
yeah
no you have latencies into the microseconds on localhost
05:12
@Ced It depends on many factors. DNS lookup (initial connection) and HTTPS handshake easily takes over 1s, then we start talking about your site.
there are tools that introduce delays into it, then you can simulate locally somewhat
@Sheepy i think the current gen embedded gfx on intel are pretty good now though, and fine for development though right?
would you need a dedicated GPU for comp sci curriculum these days?
Ced
Ced
:( ok ty
easier: use sshfs or something and edit directly on the vps, with git push periodically
maybe for like... i dunno... masc...masc...hine.... learning? lol
05:13
@Ced On the other hand, if you run a heavy site, your PC's IO may bottleneck your localhost more than a real server.
@RyanAllen Definitely good enough for web development.
Ced
Ced
my site renders in 400 ms on localhost
with self signed cert
@Sheepy
on the other hand it was 14 sec at one point so there is that
lol
@qaispak If you can, aim for i5-4590 or i5-6500. They cost 189 usd a piece where I live.
@Ced in real life the server is physically far away so there is a time significant delay between your transmit and the reply. testing on localhost will test how fast the linux kernel can schedule a task in the kernel to wakeup the listener. short answer: instantly. long answer: in my measurements around 33 microseconds
@Sheepy what about 6400 ?
Intel Core i5-6400 6 MB Skylake Quad-Core 2.7 GHz LGA 1151 65W BX80662I56400 Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 530 is what I am looking at right now
Ced
Ced
@doug65536 yeah my question was about what kind of delay to expect
05:18
1/3rd of 1/10th of 1ms approx (is how fast a server can respond to a connect locally approx ymmv etc)
@qaispak It'd still be faster than any i3. That's all I can say :/
Ced
Ced
ahah I meant a round trip to the host, I know it's user dependant but like east coast west coast, should be + 200ms, then there is the ssl handshake as said above
Or switch to AMD, like me. You can buy a 8 Core 4GHz CPU at that price, with some spare :p
round trip locally is tens of microseconds
@Sheepy man where do you get it for 189? I am seeing it for 204 on new egg.
Ced
Ced
05:20
I meant when it's hosted
whatever
@Sheepy I wanted to go AMD route but someone told me it doesn't support linux well? have NO idea how true that is.
@qaispak We don't have VAT in Hong Kong ;)
@Sheepy ahh.. far away. Well the one you suggest is around 204 so not that bad. will a 3.2 ghz show any signficant improvement over 2.7 ghz though?
@qaispak I'll confess that I never ran a linux on AMD. I expect that the major chipset and CPU have no problem; most problem is with graphic card. But you should do your research...
!!> 3.2/2.7
@Sheepy 1.1851851851851851
05:24
my experience with amd on linux was at a bad time when, by default, it locked up with the gpu I had with the linux I had. it could be convinced with text kernel parameter, and some links text-mode web browsing, to install the non-free driver
I had some problems with AMD .. the graphics driver .. but I think those are solved by now
@qaispak Sorry, battery ded. You'll need one not just for gaming, a lot of things depend on it. Take visual effects on your desktop, for example.
DEs like Cinnamon complain if you don't have one.
And your experience will not be as smooth.
If you're not the gamer time, get Intel HD5000 or HD4000.
Just disable the fancy effects.
pooo tizzzz
Well I might run some basic games (which I run on my laptop)
05:26
You'll definitely need one.
so maybe a standard graphics card is fine -- nothing too fancy
Define "basic".
Even chrome uses it
Dota 2 :
You'll need it.
05:27
hmm... more things to look at then.
That's pretty standard.
@qaispak I'd advise against it, for now. First the i5 can runs Dota at ~20 fps. Second, nVidia and AMD are going to take a big step ahead later this year.
No... software rendering sucks. Even for the most basic stuff.
@Sheepy Okay. In any case I need to figure out an SSD and motherboard for my setup first
05:31
The i5's gfx is better than the card I had 5 years ago. It is not software rendering.
Get a Hybrid SSD for $200 and use the extra you'd spend on an SSD on a decent graphics card.
@littlepootis even for ASCII art?
I am a long time Hybrid user - ever since Seagate makes their first hybrid. I must say even a cheap SSD is faster than Hybrid.
much smaller, though
05:33
Of course
Yeah. As far as development goes, how much you need mainly depends on project size/count and how many VM you (plan to) have...
One advantage of having a lot of RAM is that you can run a lot of VMs
dev VMs don't consume much, but still
It's much on a SSD. MS's official Win10 VM is taking me 20GB.
But then, we just bought a 64TB NAS for a client who has lots of videos on their site. (shrug)
any windows > 7 is baad
05:41
Too late. I am trying to decide whether to stay on 8 or up to 10......
Go for Win10
!!s/> 7//
@littlepootis any windows is baad (source)
Yes. That one is easy. Next question, 7 or 10?
M$ has been interleaving good versions with bad versions for ages. And they haven't failed to do so even now.
Win7 -> Win10 will be free until 1 Aug. I would say, update until then.
05:43
Haha.
run linux, use a vm for gaming
(is what I should do)
Run Linux, install Steam, install Dota 2
do all steam games work on linux?
The popular ones do
To be honest I expect that MS'll find some other ways to offer free upgrade. Such as the recent "we'll keep the offer for users who need accessibility".
05:46
Volvo games do
@Shmiddty Many of mine don't.
I only play Linux games, so I don't really know.
Hey guys, I'm lost. Is there a chat for meta SO? I need to ask about a question.
And VM is not perfect. Sometimes the gfx bridge is less than ideal. Some games will detect the VM and think you are a cheater. But then, if you play PC game, hiccups like this should not be news.
@cst1992 There's one for meta SE
05:48
@littlepootis I used the Low Quality Posts HQ. Is that the correct one?
@cst1992 It depends on what you want. There's also Tavern otm
There's also the SOCVR room
It's not a close vote actually, more like unsure about a question: stackoverflow.com/questions/37153603/… I think this question is an XY question, but I'm not sure
I'd vote that as unclear
Hello from Windoge 7
05:53
Is there a way to move the above post to SOCVR?
Not mine. "Windows Update Standalone Installer" has checking for updates online for 86 hours.
Is there a way to install apps from terminal?
Like
cd /path && install cornhub_client.exe
You can manually download the updates (installer exe) and execute them. In GUI or from terminal.
GUI just doesn't work. This isn't really an update. They were trying to install Powershell.
And this came up.
Can't Cancel.
Executing it just brings up the installer GUI
I don't want that..
Wait for the Ubuntu subsystem?
Windoge 7
05:59
A few apps - usually MS tools or linux ports - has command line (headless) installation. But other apps usually don't.
How do Windows servers work? They have a GUI too?
Most do, yes. MS tried to make a version without GUI. I never see it in the wild.
you are missing a semi-colon on line 4 — w43L 6 hours ago
...
06:01
Our IT use Remote Desktop like linux IT use SSH. If there is no mouse, they can't do anything. Well, they will call me, actually.
So, you can't SSH into a Windows Server?
(Why do people use this shit ugh)
Let's just say it's some very different mindset.
> I can't use it so it must be shit
It's ridiculously slow
I don't see any advantages over Linux.
Maybe it's because I hate using GUIs.
You can do pretty much all remote administration using powershell
06:08
I'm trying to install it and I don't even know what to do.
It's been 86 hours since it started checking for updates.
They don't see much advantage of command line over a nice GUI that an intern can pickup immediately, either, when RAM is dirt cheap.
Typical Linux user :P
I think It's not unlike text-based RPG. You can do much more, much faster, with text RPG. And those that are alive today has so much depth. As a bonus, you can use your imagination. But most people enjoy graphical RPGs more.
Oh, come on
Apparently you can msiexec /package installer.msi
But it's not an msi
Why isn't msi the standard..?
micsof pls
Command line switches are usually built into the packages
06:17
@Sheepy Well, sometimes you just want to be productive. My terminal looks more beautiful than most GUIs. I enjoy working on it. I use the GUI for Chrome and Steam Games. That's all.
If I want to install a program, all I do is type i program-name. That's all. I don't want to waste time downloading it from somewhere, wait for the installer GUI to load, and then accept license agreements, wait for it to install and waste a few minutes on one program's installation. And updating is as simple as typing a u.
If you already learned to speak command line, it may be more productive. But it took me almost a day to learn iptables and setup 3 chains the way I want. That's when I already speak service, yum, tail, vim etc. so that I don't need to learn those.
"You can do much more, much faster, with text RPG" Lies.
The subtlety that a mouse as input device offers, isn't available. PvP? not gonna happen
Raids? rolling a dice versus optimizing a rotation...
I played text-based MUD for many years over 14.4k modem, all the way to 56k. It's full of PvP at least.
And I've been Raiding before Ultima Online happens. Before Ultima 8, even.
cast frostbolt versus [1]
Have you played a graphical RPG, seriously?
Balder's Gate, Neverwinter, Mass Effect, Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic....
Too much to count.
06:27
Then how can you even say a text-based RPG is faster?
It depends on the exact game. But for command based games, if you use a client that support custom alias, you can act really fast. Faster than the server can respond, if it's online.
WoW macro's.
Exactly. Except before WOW.
So, now you have the macro's with the graphical features of a RPG nowadays
Me: "Do you still want to use Windoge"?
She: "No.."
:D
06:32
I don't think most graphical RPG assumes you use macro, do they? Or has support of macro, 3rd party or not.
Macro's are optional in WoW.
I use macros with graphical FPS and they're amazing.
Mostly for trolling, but stil..
Still, I don't see anyone going on a 40-man raid and fighting over safe spots in a text RPG.
No, but we have bluff, heal, tank, argo all the same.
Not as fast-paced as a modern MMORPG
06:35
That's where our opinion differs and I'll leave it as it :)
How would you possibly keep track of the health of 40 raid members, without a GUI?
Where seconds matter.
Meanwhile, you have 10 different cooldowns running that have to be triggered at the opportune moment...
Preferably before the boss does his <aww shit> move.
And for crying out loud, Bob, get out of the fire! [Shield]
They run in ticks, which is configurable and in a few seconds. The one I played most is 2s, if I recall correctly. Instead of cooldown, we get limited action and resources (hp/mp/energy) to manage.
Then how can you argue that it's faster than a modern MMORPG?
By it's very nature, it's limited in speed.
In, for example, WoW, you can get obliterated by a boss, then battleressed within those 2 seconds. Meanwhile you're still waiting for the message that says you're dead...
To me, the boss playing his <aww shit> move is slower. We don't have animations. We each cast many spells in a tick. It always scroll out of screen but as long as we have the latest status at the bottom we know what is going on.
Ah. I see what I missed. The enemy may act in tick, but we don't. If we have sufficient resources, we can clean a dungeon in a few seconds. There are builds optimised for that, to farm exp for other team mates.
Hi guys
this is 1 demo js bin which i have created:jsbin.com/kakoritate/edit?html,css,js,output
06:47
Still, there's nothing "real-time" about a text RPG.
but problem in this demo is animation is not running smooth
can anybody tell me what could be the problem
it stuck alot
@Cerbrus Not in sub second interval, no. But if you played it and watched your hp drops while you are swapping out your wand of fire, it is real time enough for a game.
Swapping out a weapon shouldn't take enough time to watch your health drop...
not when you are learning the rope and you really have to open your bag and stow your current wand and take it out.
And then discover that the command failed because it is in your backpack, not bag :)
@Cerbrus ever tried pulling out a polevault out of your backpack during a fight? I DIDN'T THINK SO!
06:53
(And don't forget to close the bag. Or some NPCs will help themselves.)
True
I just rightclick my 2-handed axe. not even half a second of time to equip that.
GUI > Text. Admit it. ;-)
@Cerbrus that's so OOC
It's the original context of this pointless discussion :P
@Cerbrus That's only because you are playing a dump game where you only have one big bag and no thieves will pickpocket you for leaving it open. (roll eyes)
06:56
@Cerbrus wait, there was actually a context?
@Neil Good point
@Sheepy They won't get the chance to. I'll see them coming <rimshot>
I love how when you're low on health in skyrim you can instantaneously gorge 50 apples and you're in perfect shape. #gamelogic
Meanwhile the dragon's like: Did ya really stuff a tree's worth of apples down your gullet? Screw this.
What if real life were like that? "Nurse! Apple, stat!"

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