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00:15
I wrote a polyfill for classList
Is it shorter than that wall'o'code on mdn?
Possibly, but it's in ES6
I'm working on one giant polyfill lib that will modernize the DOM for IE8
each chunk is its own module, though
oh that sounds cool
00:17
Here's the ClassList object: paste.ofcode.org/i3zbTHaHSEQ2btQa5RtGwW
Works to spec, but doesn't work around DOMStringMap, or whatever it's supposed to
user3233318
Doesn't support for ES6 implies support for classList?
Nice. I have to admit es6 makes for some gorgeous code...guess i should try to get over my babel aversion
Not always; I transpile my code down, so it's ES5- in the end
Also, forgot this part; actually uses the ClassList object in the Element prototype
if (!('classList' in Element.prototype) && 'defineProperty' in Object)
Object.defineProperty(Element.prototype, 'classList', {
    get: function() {
        return new ClassList(this);
    }
});
else if (!('classList' in Element.prototype) && '__defineGetter__' in Object.prototype)
Element.prototype.__defineGetter__('classList', function() {
    return new ClassList(this);
});
user3233318
00:33
Isn't IE8 unsafe as a browser?
yes, but try telling that to the morons that use it
user3233318
One day I saw a website that wouldn't run on old browsers to force people to update.
I wonder what the bounce rate was
user3233318
bounce rate?
"The percentage of visitors who enter the site and then leave ("bounce") rather than continuing on to view other pages within the same site."
user3233318
00:46
Well, I think that was extreme, but If I am not mistaken only about 5% of people use IE8, so not much damage I guess.
Depends on the product I'd imagine
your percentage of IE8 users depends on your demographic. At my last job, we had a lot more than 5% of users on IE8
user3233318
@Nick What was the percentage?
I don't remember; I wasn't looking at analytics all day
user3233318
@Nick Do you think it was like 10%?
00:52
at least, yeah
user3233318
Well, I always try to make my websites compatible with all the browsers that I can. Is already hard to get viewers and I am not in the business of educating people about security.
01:11
hallo all
anyone have success setting up a ghost server on a remote machine?
@dopatraman Yeah, what trouble are you having?
so iv installed ghost
i can run it in dev mode
i get the output, ghost running on xxx.xxx.xx.x:2368
but if i try to hit that ip:port, i get a connection error
ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED
Sounds like there's a configuration problem somewhere in the network
01:13
so hered the weird part
if i run a node server on port 80
i can hit it no problem
Where's this server, AWS?
digital ocean
heres another weird thing
DO is probably blocking ports that aren't 22/80/443
if i mod the ghost config to run on port 80
i still cant hit it
thoughts?
can you curl it from the server?
01:16
hm thats so obvious i havent tried it yet! lol
lemme see
so im a sysadmin noob
heres whats going on
i can curl the loopback, 127.0.0.1 no prb
right output, everything
but if i curl the external ip, i get this: curl: (7) Failed to connect to xxx.xxx.xx.x port 80: Connection refused
what does that mean?
well, that's good news
both your PC and the server can't access the server using the external IP
helps narrow down the problem range
wait what do you mean
how come i could hit the node server then?
(the test server i threw up on port 80)
try curling the node server from the DO server, just for completeness sake
holy shit
new album from iron maiden
flying colors :O
I'll wait to listen to it on youtube before buying... I wasn't amazed by their last album
01:22
@SomeKittens yep i can curl it
something is up with the ghost server then?
Yeah, if it connects fine on port 80 to a dummy server, I'd say it's a Ghost problem
hm
how do i resolve?
Check Ghost logs?
@Nick it was great, but oldies are hard to top
I guess I was just too nostalgic
01:27
is there a such thing?
woooooow
@SomeKittens, if i change the server's ip to 0.0.0.0 it works
wtfuuuuuuuu
@dopatraman oh, yeah
can you explain what happened?
i was just bullshitting around
if it's only listening to 127.0.0.1, then it will only pay attention to connections incoming on loopback (i.e. ignoring everything from outside)
0.0.0.0 means "listen to all the things"
anyway, I've got to head home
i see
i dont actually understand
can anyone else here clue me in?
user3233318
@dopatraman When a service is listening on 0.0.0.0 this means the service is listening on all the configured network interfaces, when listening on 127.0.0.1 the service is only bound to the loopback interface (only available on the local machine)
01:39
what is the loopback interface used for?
user3233318
Is used for the local network.
oh i see
heres what i dont get
if im currently on my local network, i shouldve been able to hit the loopback right?
user3233318
Right.
user3233318
I am not familiar with the program ghost, but usually when a program says listening on xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx:xxxx that means that the server is expecting a connection on the xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx interface.
@SomeKittens Awesome! NASA's been tweeting a lot about #JourneyToMars too
user3233318
01:49
@dopatraman Where you able to understand what is going on?
so i think i know what happened
i was not tryingto hit the external address
xxx.xxx.xx.x
because my server is a remote server, i couldnt hit the loopback
thus the confusion
user3233318
@dopatraman I see. I am glad that the issue was resolved.
user3233318
@dopatraman Are you typing the real numbers? I am only seeing a bunch of x.
nope i was typing x's
user3233318
@dopatraman I was wondering if they put a filter on ip addresses.
01:55
i doubt it
was trying to be secretive
123.456.78.9
user3233318
I can the numbers.
user3233318
I have seen chat rooms before with that.
i guess it makes sense
theres prob atleast 1 troll on here
user3233318
I have been kicked from this chat room more than one time. I don't think a troll would pass the mod.
@user148098 my ip is hunter2
02:08
nobody trolls in here
I'd just like to point out that Spintires and Breach & Clear are crazy discounted on the Humble Store, and I recommend them both.
anyone ever think about doing andorid programming
i would, i just hate java so much
@dopatraman same, bout to have to get into it for work tho
xml makes my eyes bleed
im wodnering if i can use jade to mark up android views
and then just copy them over or something
phonegap + framework7?
02:17
phonegap is balls
its like looking at a webpage
eh
thats where framework 7 comes in
phonegap, cordova, all of those compile2android things
oh hey f7 looks cool
im dubious about whether its as good as native though
well unless you're doing something really processor intensive i doubt performance would be an issue...might take extra work for visual consistency between platform fragments tho
interesting
user3233318
Is better to use Java and sometimes you need to use C++
02:22
i figured
i just haaaaate java
im a bigger fan of FP
user3233318
What is the problem with Java?
but ofcourse, no one uses FP except for mathematicians
its clunky, verbose, and relies on your app having state
user3233318
I try not to judge the language. I have to use what I have.
user3233318
what I have available.
@dopatraman woo
02:24
thats fair
thats actually the better way of looking at it haha
@dopatraman You can use FP is practical applications, you just need to learn a new way of giving the computer instructions
cant make a gui with it
i think someone made a bridge for GTK for haskell
but i havent messed around with it
user3233318
I tried to use tk before. The app looked well on Windows and Mac, but on GNU Linux it had the motif visual.
user3233318
I am super disappointed with cross platform gui applications.
@dopatraman web apps
02:28
@KendallFrey I guess i could use haskell for a web server
i dont really know how to express a web server functionally
and i want to write it myself, no 3rd party. no fun otherwise
@user148098 totally
have you looked at electron shell?
it can do some amazing stuff
@dopatraman building an app in it now :}
its awesome
I wrote a little chat app with Haskell, for fun
wasn't too hard
user3233318
@dopatraman I know about it. I made my own "alternative" of 100kb. But so far I only made an app to move, delete and rename files.
@user148098 repo?
Anything with IO is a bit verbose, but the trick is to make as much of your app pure as possible
user3233318
02:30
I will put my code only eventually.
user3233318
Maybe next week.
user3233318
online*
I really like electron for how easy it is to get started, debug, package...but it is a bit beefy
user3233318
That is what motivated me to make an alternative.
user3233318
The app looks like a webpage anyway. So is not ideal yet.
02:43
@KendallFrey link to chat app?
do you use long polling or web sockets
TCP
no link, because not really a complete app worth posting
It's a total of 12 significant lines of code
I am writing a powershell program after our IT successfully borrowed me from my boss. I thought batch file was painful. Now I am not so sure which is worse: batch commands that is not a programming language, or batch commands that pretends to be a programming language.
Try { MySendMail -title $title -body $body } Catch { $_ | Out-File ( ( Get-Date -format y ) + ".log" ) -Append } } }
02:59
anything interesting going on?
trying to install java
this is so painful
liquids are bad for your processor
womp womp
We wrote a webpage robot using JavaFX WebView. Then we upgraded to latest Java (update 60). Then it crashed, and we had to uninstall it and reinstall old versions (update 40).
@Claies nah, quite good actually. liquids in general conduct heat better
it's conducting liquids that cause problems
03:02
java is so clunky
Well, on the good side, I normally expect it to work. Its backward compatiblity is not perfect, but it works - just like Windows.
it's really not bad, for what it is designed to do; would rather program java than php, for sure
Concur
I was working at a dentist office today, trying to help them set up this massive CT Scanner they paid over $10k for.... It has this "State of the art" software interface, except that they "ONLY support Windows 7". Their program crashes on windows 8, and won't even install on windows 10
the tech support guy says "Just go down to Best Buy and get a copy of Windows 7, don't be cheap"
lollllll
linux > all
03:08
Yeah. Each linux is better than other linux.
Oh... what is the plural form of linux?
hm
wait windows isnt unix based is it?
only mac os i thought was
I asked him how I was supposed to deal with the warrantee that would be voided on this brand new laptop when I wiped the factory install of windows 8, (if I could even install windows 7 on the UEFI bios), his answer was "If you can afford a $10,000 CT Scanner, a few hundred bucks in potential hardware repairs shouldn't be a concern" lol clueless!!!
Sounds like the common IT.
I seriously wonder what's up with a company that is comfortable with "We think Windows 8 is crap so we refuse to make our hardware compatible with it."
We also have them in programming. Those programmers who always tell you to RTFM; if you can't figure out how to use their programs, the exact correct click sequence, it is your fault.
03:14
I mean with that mentality, you may as well ship a computer running windows 95 with every hardware purchase.
Oh, Win 95 was good. And most people do hate Win 8.
hate doesn't have anything to do with it; you can hate it all you want, but when it's the majority of the market share, you can't stick your head in the sand and hope it will ignore you
especially when you are selling equipment to a less technologically savvy market, like dentistry.
I had lots of fun watching clever friends getting stuck in Win 8. Can't say it is a good OS from the users' pov and thus, the managers' pov.
like I was trying to tell my business partner the other day; if you design something that nobody wants to use, you can't sell it
pretty arrogant to assume you can just make decisions like that for people and that they'll just deal or gtfo...like what if the client already has some software that made the same decision but chose windows 8
03:19
he got mad at me because I refused to give a copy of the software I'm working on to some people before I have a chance to have a UI person look at it, because my UI skills are craptastic
That's noble of you.
but it does what it's supposed to do, right?
not noble, as much as practical.... you can't tell people they are buying a steak and then sell them dog food, right?
more people in software should have your mentality haha
It is like unseasoned beef. Sure, you can cook it right now. But spending the time to season it will make it so different that you can't tell it is the same beef.
yeah well maybe that's why I'm not a multi-millionaire lol
I'm not even 100% sure there is a market for the software I've been trying to develop :/
03:26
@dopatraman You get it all handled?
i did
thank you sir
am I the only one that doesn't get the Chocolatey Package Manager?
seriously? 51k pledged for an open source project that won't even be sold or sell anything?
03:42
link?
ok goodnight fellas
btw that kickstarter link is taking forever to load
dude this is something desperately needed on windows
Yeah, that looks great
You may be the only one who doesn't get it :p
People are pledging support because they want to be able to use it
03:54
Never heard of it, but looks promising.
Finally having an open package manager on Windows would be nice.
ok now this is an idiotic kickstarter project, that seems like people are dumb enough to throw money at....
user406009
04:13
@Claies That almost looks like a parody.
04:54
Is new Employee same as Object.create(Employee)? Employee is a Function constructor
@overexchange No, not same. You certain we didn't answered that last month?
from object representation perspective
What do you mean by that perspective? Is there a specific difference that you want to be ignored?
@Claies worse yet, it's a FOSS project with a pro level
05:09
hi all gm
@Sheepy How does the representation look like(below), if I say, Manager.prototype = new Employee.prototype instead of Manager.prototype = Object.create(Employee.prototype)?
is Employee.prototype a function?
!!>new String.prototype
@Cauterite "TypeError: String.prototype is not a constructor"
that's what will happen
@overexchange
05:26
is Employee.prototype a function? I dont know the answer for this question. What I know is, Employee and Manager are functions
Is Employee.prototype an object?
yep, it's just an object
and you can only use new with functions
If I say, Manager.prototype = Object.create(Employee) instead of Manager.prototype = Object.create(Employee.prototype), then how does the representation change in the above diagram?
@overexchange then Manager.prototype.__proto__ will point to Employee
ok. Is that the only difference?
05:35
When do we think of using, Manager.prototype = Object.create(Employee) instead of Manager.prototype = Object.create(Employee.prototype)?
never
When I use Object.create, I keep away from new and .prototype, and vice versa.
But I see some example here, WorkerBee.prototype = new Employee; using new instead of Object.create should not matter here,I guess.
Consistent style.
Your main question, new vs object.create, already have a few questions and answers on SO. Check them out first.
05:40
the difference is that Object.create doesn't call any constructors

`Object.create(X)` is equivalent to `{"__proto__" : X}` (except the latter doesn't actually work)
so new X calls the constructor X unlike Object.create(X)
@overexchange correct
i think new X is something like let Y = {"__proto__" : X.prototype}; X.apply(Y, arguments); Y;
@Cauterite It works in ES6. It only not works in early IE.
Should be X.apply(Y, arguments)
!!>({"proto" : 6}).__proto__ === 6
@Cauterite false
05:47
@Sheepy thanks
Don't you think there is one mistake in this diagram chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/25428227#25428227 there is no such constructor property in Employee.prototype. am I correct? we need to set explicitly
took an off from college today :D happy new morning peeps
@AwalGarg which college are you from?
torture
@overexchange sorry i don't know anything about the "constructor" properties
05:52
morning
What does it mean to cancel an event, of course, in JavaScript?
@ZhengquanBai Normally that means calling event.preventDefault
the event of cancelling an event is called cancelling an event
@AwalGarg Said equals not said.
if you then cancel the event of cancelling an event, you cancel the cancelling of event, and thus the event cancellation is canceled, resulting in the event not being cancelled
HaHa, that is Chinglish I invented. Do you understand?
I'm impressed
Nice tongue twister
05:57
your tongue is too easily twistable, easily twistable tonguer
@Sheepy Yes. That seems to be the case.
@ZhengquanBai if you 'cancel' an event, i think that means no other listeners will be called for that particular event object
@Sheepy incorrect, mr. sheep
@Cauterite Isn't that something called stopPropagation?
@ZhengquanBai isn't that the same thing?
06:00
no. not at all
okay then
@ZhengquanBai it is stopImmediatePropagation
Do you mean that what Cauterite said is stopImmediatePropagation?
This drives me to figure out the difference between stopPropagation and stopImmediatePropagation
06:03
stopPropagation prevents further bubling of the event object (so it doesn't reach the parent, or the child if in capturing stage)
Then how about stopImmediatePropagation?
> no other listeners will be called for that particular event object
how about preventDefault?
one event can have multiple listeners. if you stopImmediatePropagation in one of them, the rest of the listeners aren't called
preventDefault tells the browser to not do anything special
preventDefault on ctrl+f will cause the browser to not popup that search bar thingy
@AwalGarg That clarifies
06:06
yeah that's a good explaination
@Cauterite Here, when you say, latter doesn't actually work you mean not callable?
shame i'll probably forget in an hour or so
@overexchange i mean it doesn't actually set the __proto__
@Cauterite it does, but not how you think of it
!!>({"proto" : Math}).__proto__ === Math
In my own words, a default action is something browsers do for you even if there is no attached handler.
06:08
@Cauterite false
If you drag something in firefox, the browser will open what you dragged in a new tab.
@Cauterite think again
But in chrome, the browser just does nothing
@AwalGarg oh, it's true in my browser
guess Caprica didn't do it right
Hey I have a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE question guys !
06:11
@user3930699 Welcome to the JavaScript chat! Please review the room pseudo-rules. Please don't ask if you can ask or if anyone's around; just ask your question, and if anyone's free and interested they'll help.
user3119231
morning
And we have a huge welcome message for you.
Morning, I try to use React from CDN and with only the latest typescript compiller.
I can not understand how to use requirejs to require react from cdn.
you don't
... ok
@Cauterite When you say X.apply(Y, arguments); Is it something like Employee.apply(Y, "", "general") for below constructor
function Employee() {
  this.name = "";
  this.dept = "general";
}
@overexchange nope, that'd be Employee.apply(Y)
where Y = {"__proto__" : Employee.prototype};
ok
the `arguments` are what is passed in the `new` operator,
`new X(<arguments>)`
as the constructor does not have parameters. OK
06:22
@overexchange correct
@Cauterite AFAIK, Caprica is using SpiderMonkey, with some tailor made command protections. IIRC, her source is available on GitHub.
@Cauterite so Y; is the object created after calling new X. am I correct?
@overexchange yes
$(".d-maximize .count-msg").text(parseInt($(".d-maximize .count-msg").text()) + 1).css("display", "inline-block").prop("title", "You got" + $(".d-maximize .count-msg").text() + " new messages"); &  $(".d-maximize .count-msg").text(parseInt($(this).text()) + 1).css("display", "inline-block").prop("title", "You got" + $(this).text() + " new messages"); -- are these 2 same ???
user3119231
what. the. fuck.
user3119231
06:36
@Simply yes it is. in this case this is .d-maximize .count-msg
user3119231
"this - the object who called me"
@Cauterite thank you
ding ding
@overexchange no problem
06:41
@argentum47 o/
Another phrase I find being used quite often by native English speakers is "pretty much".
@Maurize Thank you
in addition to the previous "basically"
What is going on with the flags again
Another grammar phenomenon I discover is that native English speakers tend to say "going to be doing", instead of "going to do"
06:47
Different meaning
user3119231
I can speak German. That's enough for one life.
@MaiLongdong Don't worry, nothing meta post worthy. just kids fighting.
@MaiLongdong If there is some difference, I think that should be "going to be doing" implying things you wanna do in a very short time, while "going to do" isn't that urgent.
hiyo/ moining
@SomeKittens +20! very nice (the swag meta post)
06:54
@ZhengquanBai No, the first is a longer-taking action, the second is short-lived.
@MaiLongdong In some youtube tutorials, I often hear tutors say "In this lesson, I'm going to be teaching you..."
Youtube tutorials are not exactly what I would consider a reference on English grammar
But usually -ing: habit, long-lived action. No -ing: short, punctual, finished.
In some contexts both may be correct, in some others one only.

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