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00:00 - 15:0015:00 - 00:00

3:00 PM
The value has different meanings
for object properties
it means that they don't exist
 
Huh? it has different meanings?
 
for variables it means that they have not been assigned any value yet
console.log(foo); undefined!
var foo = function(){} // function expression!!!!
 
It means the lack of information regarding the value, correct? (You don't know enough information to give back an answer)
if you do var foo; console.log(foo); what do you get?
 
undefined
 
@AndyE oh shit. :(
 
3:02 PM
no value has been assigned
 
So when does null come into the picture?
 
null is... well null
bla.foo = null; // no value atm but it's there!!!
 
it is? But null is technically the lack of a value (hence why null !== null in technical semantics)... So undefined is a subset of null. So why the heck does undefined exist in the first place?
 
@Raynos You can create your own 'disabled' buttons by cancelling the default action and stop event propagation with a event handler
 
@ircmaxell Undefined is just another thing that gets assigned to anything before that has any other value
 
3:05 PM
You'll of course also want to use CSS to style those disabled button
 
more or less a placeholder
but in the end you use undefined to indicate that it's "not there"
 
@IvoWetzel: I understand that, but what I'm saying is that there's no semantic difference between undefined and null. So why have both. Sure, I guess you could say to distinguish between a compiler null and a user null, but that's stupid since both are the same and should be treated as such...
 
@ircmaxell Ask Eich what exactly his thoughts on the topic were
null is just another value, like anything else
just that it's ... well null
 
@YiJiang I thought emulating title would be easier then emulating disabled.
 
@Raynos Perhaps not. I also didn't know that hover won't fire with disabled
 
3:08 PM
but it's not a value. It's the lack of a value. It's everything and nothing at the same time (which is why null !== null, since if it was, it wouldn't be nothing)...
 
> null === null
true
 
@IvoWetzel That's because it's wrong...
 
var foo; // undefined. Declared but unassigned. A pointer to nothing
var baz = null; // null. Declared and assigned to null, A pointer to null
 
same holds true for undefined, they are just values, one more or less special then the other
@ircmaxell Guess I have to dig around in the reference a bit
 
Most languages allow null === null to be true, but it's technically wrong (Hence the existance of IS NULL in SQL). In ANSI SQL mode, NULL = NULL is false...
Null is a special marker used in Structured Query Language (SQL) to indicate that a data value does not exist in the database. Introduced by the creator of the relational database model, E. F. Codd, SQL Null serves to fulfill the requirement that all true relational database management systems (RDBMS) support a representation of "missing information and inapplicable information". Codd also introduced the use of the lowercase Greek omega (ω) symbol to represent Null in database theory. NULL is also an SQL reserved keyword used to identify the Null special marker. Null has been the focu...
 
3:13 PM
@ircmaxell I'm afraid your confusing nice mathematical concepts with whatever the writer of the language was thinking at the time
 
@Raynos: That's my point... It's a defect in the language.
 
@ircmaxell in javascript undefined is your mathematical concept of null
 
@ircmaxell I'd say it's a theoretical error, but a practical advantage
 
@Raynos: Correct, but then why does null exist as well...
 
"null, which is an object of type 'object' that indicates a deliberate non-value" The purpose being is that you can overwrite something to null. The only difference is that null happens to inherit from object which is useful in some obscure edge cases
 
3:16 PM
the more I think the more stuff I add to the list ><
JS you're soooo broken
 
@theChrisKent: I'm not arguing if it's useful or not, just that it's wrong (lots of bastardizations and boken thinking can be extremely powerful if used correctly)
 
@Raynos Edge cases, which we still have to encounter
 
@ircmaxell I agree, I'd bet if we look closely at most languages, from a theory standpoint we'd be horrified, but then we probably wouldn't get too much done!
 
@Raynos: Deliberate non-value. But that's a value then isn't it? And round and round we go. The paradox collapses and the bit in the processor ceases to exist...
 
Oh, if you guys like, feel free to write something for that almighty ref/faq/thingy
 
3:18 PM
I can see the uses of undefined. I cant really see the use of null
3
 
@theChrisKent: Yeah, that's a very valid point. The important thing is if it's practically worth it (some things like goto are abused far far more than used well)...
@Raynos Well, that's my point. Rename undefined as null, and that's it...
 
@Raynos Indeed undefined is way more useful
We need a coreJS language...
which fixes all that shit
adds in some really needed stuff
like... a WORKING typeof operator
 
@ircmaxell I always feel bad for language designers. They have to balance theory with making stuff work for a group of people who only care about the abstraction, not the reasoning behind the structure. Then when they make some compromise, people use it like crazy not understanding that it is a pretty horrible work around (like GOTO)
 
How do I trigger a click event on an input button? My attempts call the hander but dont show the standard click animation
 
@theChrisKent Well Eich basically had to hack it together and make it look like Java so the management didn't kill it
JS has awesome parts
and a lot of broken stuff
 
3:22 PM
Can we just abandon backwards compatibility and break old websites :) Someone up top says thats it. screw backwards compatibility were doing it right this time.
 
And it's missing one friggin' thing
a BDFL
We need something like Python3... only with 5000% more breakage
 
@theChrisKent That's fair. Again, don't take this to think I'm bashing the language for one flaw. It's got it's flaws, but this is more of a pet peeve than anything.
 
We should propose the "is" method and the "for on" for ES6 :P
 
for on?
 
basically a implicit hasOwnProperty
as well as "if ('x' on foo)"
 
3:28 PM
meaning if(foo.x != undefined)?
 
If you think about it, they could have used "use strict" to break bw-comp
no, meaning if (foo.hasOwnProperty('x'))
foo.x will still do the prototype lookup
but no they just did a tiny amount of what was possible with strict mode...
 
ahhh
 
Can I use the jquery selector to recurse through the dom and any sub doms contained in iframes?
 
no
 
@ClemDesm can you fix jQuery and tell me when the pull request went through
 
3:36 PM
no
 
lol
 
no
do you see the pattern?
 
no
 
damn, that's too bad
 
3:58 PM
is bored
 
you broke the pattern.
 
is answering yet another node.js question which could have been avoided by looking at the docs
@ClemDesm new pattern.
 
doesn't like the new one
 
Still, it's a pattern.
even though I find it particularly limiting
 
It's not that limiting
 
4:06 PM
hey, can I play?
 
sure
 
wonders how long this will go for
0
Q: show TABLE status and return 1 field

kusanagii need get only one field Update_time from array or returns data, is it possible do with only sql?

 
We are delivering >700M ads / day at @applifier with a pure Javascript stack: #ajax frontend, #node.js delivery and #mongodb backend <- wow
 
Not bad at all...
 
4:25 PM
Can I overwrite the standard setter for input.disabled with input.__defineSetter__("disabled", function() { ... }); ignoring cross browser problems
 
0
Q: HTML capture enter key and tab key

sikasI want to prevent the enter key from submitting the form, I want it to act as a TAB key to just jump to the next field in the form or the next element. Is this possible in HTML/JS? if not possible to make the enter button act as a tab, is there a way to prevent the submission of the form and ma...

 
.....
at times I hate linux
trying to record vim
 
@IvoWetzel: Record?
 
ffmpeg crashes because it doesn't like the 32bit color depth of the xterm window?!?!
@LucasJones Screencasting thingy
 
@IvoWetzel Doesn't sound right... hmmm
 
4:34 PM
Ah. You can use ffmpeg to record screenshots?
I usually just use RecordMyDesktop.
 
I'm using xvidcap
 
How do I go about wrapping setters & getters around DOMObject.disabled. I can't set the disabled property inside the setter because that just recursively calls the setter.
 
but everything + compiz = instant crash
 
then disable compiz? duh
 
4:36 PM
I have never seen compiz crash (I'm sure it happens)...
 
Well it crashes a lot of programs or makes them slow
 
fair enough
that's why I've switched to KDE
 
I can't stand KDE
 
KD-urk
 
@IvoWetzel implement pointers in javascript. I could use them right now
 
4:39 PM
:O~~
 
record my desktop sucks
it sucks so hard
 
0
A: HTML capture enter key and tab key

Thrustmaster<html> <body> <script> function tmpFn(val){ if(event.keyCode=='13'){ if (val<4) eval('document.yourform.box' + (val+1) + '.focus()'); else document.yourform.submit(); return false; } return true; } </script> <body> <form ...

 
Anyway, compiz is for people coming from windows just to pretend linux is better :p
 
nothing, not even the holy VLC can play the stuff it produces correctly
 
if (val<4) eval('document.yourform.box' + (val+1) + '.focus()'
sigh
 
4:41 PM
@IvoWetzel: Well, whatever works for you!
 
@LucasJones atm, nothing's working...
 
KDE rocks
 
@ClemDesm: Yes. Real (wo)?men use twm.
 
(4.4 at least)
 
@LucasJones Erm. No please. No.
extrem people.
 
4:43 PM
OK. I'll concede to using fvwm sometimes.
 
@IvoWetzel please, a new pattern.
 
ok giving xvidcap a normal piece of desktop at first seems to get it to work
 
var storage = htmlObject.disabled;
delete htmlObject.disabled;
htmlObject.disabled = function() { ... }; // overwrite disabled with something
htmlObject.disable() function(val) { ... }; // still disables or enables it
Is the above possible ?
 
yes
 
how do I disable it whilst having overwritten the disabled property
 
4:55 PM
ES5 setter?
 
@IvoWetzel It has to work in ff 3.6 and an ES5 setter results in recursion
 
then, well no chance
 
:( no chance isn't an option
 
2 up-votes away from being 1/2 way towards silver in MySQL (lol)
 
and yet another node.js answer got accpeted! Without any upvotes!
SO is sooo awesome
not..
 
5:02 PM
lol
 
hm snipmate for vim is kinda broken
it somehow messes with the undo history
 
@IvoWetzel seems like you break everything dude.
 
an undo leaves });
obj.on('event', function(arguments) {
    coon.foo.hasOwnProperty(
    if
});
that's after redo...
 
Time to leave work
bye everyone
 
take it easy
 
5:31 PM
0
Q: VIM, SnipMate breaking the undo/redo history

Ivo WetzelSo I recently made the jump over to VIM and I'm still testing out all sorts of plugins. Now, I installed snipMate and the snippets work really great, but I'm encountering a strange bug. When doing undo / redo the buffer ends up in pretty strange states. Before the undo (just some random test co...

 
Hi. Do you know whether parseFloat() used regional settings when parsing floats?
i.e. Does parseFloat(1234,567) return 1234.567 in France?
 
6:32 PM
Wow, I must say that I'm impressed with the new Ubuntu 10.10 installer...
 
hi, i wanted to know something about java date
no one in java room
!!
 
@Noor Read the source. Java source
 
what source??
 
hehehe
 
Java Date sucks
google joda time
be happy
 
6:39 PM
Ya everyplace I have seen people complaining about java time
& date
 
anyways, I'm off for today... got to fix my sleep rythm...
:kitten quote
 
> "Don’t worry if it doesn’t work right. If everything did, you’d be out of a job." - Mosher’s Law of Software Engineering
 
and with this great quote, kitten and I are leaving for today, have a good <timezone dependent time of day> everyone
 
have a good one
 
7:01 PM
0
Q: Regex to find sequential integers

Tonto McGeeHi, I am having a difficult time getting my regular expression code to work properly in PHP. Here is my code: $array = array(); // Used to satisfy the 3rd argument requirment of preg_match_all. $regex = '/(012|345|678|987|654|321|123|456|789|876|543|210|234|567|765|432)/'; $subject = '123456'; ...

Why does that scream code rot to me?
but then again, I can't think of any significiantly better way short of brute-forcing it...
 
a simple algorithm would do
 
such as?
 
im writing it and debugging it.
 
cool
I'm curious
 
It doesn't do the reverse. hmm. Fixing that is a simple exercise for the user
 
7:10 PM
Well, but that's still brute-forcing (it's walking the entire string looking at each character)
(not saying it's bad by any means, just that I can't think of any other efficient way than brute-forcing)
 
run in firefox: +{valueOf:function(v){alert(v);}} (FUN!)
 
:) just testing
 
doesn't run unknown code...
 
7:25 PM
it reveils a weird firefox bug (anomaly) ... nothing scary
 
is there a way to have a function use an older version of a framework?
so if on page load i am loading jquery4.4 but for a specific function use 4.2?
does $.getScript() work for that?
 
so tell me, isn't this chat just a place to spam your stackoverflow questions? or am i missing something?
 
You're missing something
 
jon3laze: run $.noConflict for 4.2
how can i mention other people?
 
put an @ infront of their name
@ircmaxell for example
 
7:30 PM
@jon3laze check out jQuery.noConflict
 
@TimMolendijk thanks
 
@ircmaxell I cant imagine doing it in anything less then O(n)
 
@Raynos, yeah...
 
7:45 PM
Where is the google based javascript documentation :(
 
I dunno...
 
@Raynos "google based" ?
 
@TimMolendijk I meant documentation on the V8 variant of javascript
 
@Raynos ah yeah. good question
 
 
1 hour later…
8:53 PM
hi all! I wanna play around with the upcoming jQuery 1.5 templates. Anyone know if they're available somewhere as a plugin or something? I've found the code for the original proposal from Microsoft, but not sure if they're what's actually going into jQuery 1.5?
 
there seems to be a link to a beta version of it here: api.jquery.com/category/plugins/templates
 
@david that was the one I found too
 
9:10 PM
that's quite cool
 
he had 0.87 seconds to take that picture
(That was the transit time of the ISS across the sun)
 
wow
lols, rinnestam.se has fighting squirrels?
 
It's a cache someone took before the main site got /.
 
ah
 
 
2 hours later…
11:26 PM
Windows is a curse. I had the spent the entire evening fixing the linux partition it corrupted
 
:S how did you manage that?
 
God knows
I removed the windows partition though
good riddancec
Have to reinstall everything now ._.
 
virtualise!
I still need to check what kind of performance hit i'd get if i tried to run a 3d game in a virtualised windows 7 environment on a linux host...
 
You mean WINE emulation or an actaul virtual box?
I'm going to need a second hard drive and another 4 gigs of ram to try it. Unless you mean UT1 with a 3d game rather then crysis
 
and actual virtual machine
will probably use virtualbox cos i'm used to it...
but will see
i'm thinking just cause 2 >.>
 
11:47 PM
There are so many frameworks and libraries out there I'm just not aware of :\. Look at O3D. That looks fun to play with. I need to crack on with my own before someone comes up behind me with a better one
so much technology out there I know nothing about
 
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