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00:00
thanks so much
love u
not necessary
var personCollection = new PersonCollection();
put that in initialize ? inside the Collection or View init?
user1385191
distinguish the blockquote
user1385191
faded background is preferable
user1385191
00:07
along with italicized text and quotation marks
@MianKhurramIjaz see the code block
console error : personCollection is not defined
its working
Thank
raynos i see what you sayin but i think people that already understand will be the only ones that understand
how could someone change that to be compliant?
Plates.bind on the server should still make html strings
but Plates.bind on the browser should take an element and append children to it
not just return a string
or it should return the same
for you to append somewheres
HTML string concatenation is ^somtimes^ evil.
@MianKhurramIjaz I was more going for content
but thank you
@ThomasBlobaum no, html string concatenation is always evil
its not evil if its done in a templating engine
I meant in application code
00:21
But the point stands I need a good way to explain to them noobs that html in ma javascript is doing it wrong
plates could be pretty cool
if it did this
persuasive writing is best done without absolutism
fwiw
thats gibberish to me
no it aint
write a code example showing whats bad, write another example that does the same thing the right way
00:37
Oh I see
00:49
I cleaned the article up
I also corrupted the date :3
So what's the topic on this time?
01:08
why i keep getting the message view not defined? jsfiddle.net/tWrG7/4
@Tomas Blobaum: jsfiddle.net/tWrG7/5
this.el.html(template);
this.el.innerHTML(template);
$(this.el).html(template);
but why ? cuz the previous worked without innerHtml?
also raynos feel free to advise
01:11
ah i c
For one, no where have you ever defined Backbone, and when you use var to make a variable in a function, the variable becomes isolated. Because of this, any references to the script from outside of the document.ready(function() { ... function will be undefined.
lol
@Mikett actually jquery has some magic that makes those drop into the global space
but normally yes
still the same error => zview is not defined, even after $(this.el)...
@ThomasBlobaum that is how you do underscore templates :\ yes it sucks
});
why is it there
01:15
@ThomasBlobaum "Magic?" Maybe in the newer versions, but I'm still using jQuery version 1.6.1. The only logical magic I know that would change the scope is either using the .call, or .apply methods on functions, and making a isolated variable global by defining it in the window. By what means do you mean magic?
im sorry i do not understand
el: $('#personTable'),
that is wrong
thats how it is in examples as well but how do you know it is wrong what documentation are u reading ?
you should only define el like that if you are passing it in as a parameter
then what should i have there instead ?
01:17
Whats with the extra closing statement?
I'm guessing you just copied and pasted Thomas' code into a JSFiddle page hoping it would work?
You have a basic syntax error like @Mikett pointed out
brb
RT @paul_irish: Block Formatting Contexts are a primitive of layout in CSS. Learn the science behind them: http://www.yuiblog.com/blog/2010/05/19/css-101-block-formatting-contexts/ /by @thi ...
RT @ariyahidayat: Rickshaw: #JavaScript toolkit for interactive real-time #SVG graphs https://github.com/shutterstock/rickshaw #in
RT @jerome_etienne: inpiring post about javascript speed by @mraleph - a nice guy working on v8) http://blog.mrale.ph/post/12396216081/the-trap-of-the-performance-sweet-spot
RT @anssik: Nice "Bleeding Edge HTML5" preso by @paul_kinlan is so bleeding edge no browser ticks all the preflight boxes yet: http://t. ...
there was extra }); thanks for pointing out it is working wihtout errrors but a different error is comming now saying age is not defined ?
?
01:27
1
Q: Functions in object literals

Jack TradesI have 2 questions about functions inside object literals. I have included the workarounds I've been using, but they seem hackish. Is there a better way to do this? ns = { a: function (x, y) { return x+y; }, // Problem 1 // This does not work: Error: ns.b is not a function b: this.a,...

As you can see...
thanks it is working now
Backbone isn't defined. I don't see how "age" being undefined would be your problem at this point. Are you using a different type of computer? Different platform? Different Javascript engine? Nothing in that example works...
it works that was a problem of jsfiddle
if i take out the name and age tags from the template it works
01:38
Google Chrome Error Console:

Uncaught ReferenceError: Backbone is not defined

On line 23. The content of line 23 is as following:

var Person = Backbone.Model.extend({

---------------------------------------------------

How could it be working at all?
Wait, are you using IE?
IE = Internet Explorer
Mikett: have a look at the the latest one jsfiddle.net/tWrG7/12
all problems fixed except i want to view to show all the persons inside the collection
What browser are you using?
firefox
thats could be only on jsfiddle
but i am developing on localhost loading libraries on run time
<script src="https://ajax.googleapis.com/ajax/libs/jquery/1.6.1/jquery.min.js"></script>
<script src="http://ajax.cdnjs.com/ajax/libs/underscore.js/1.1.6/underscore-min.js"></script>
<script src="http://ajax.cdnjs.com/ajax/libs/backbone.js/0.3.3/backbone-min.js"></script>
now i am stuck in displaying the list of person from the collection to this new div
?
You never added a single script tag to that JSFiddle example. I just don't see how it is working at all. Maybe Backdone would be defined if you added that backbone.js script you showed above, but you never added that script in your example.
01:55
sorry i did not added the above pasted scripts in jsfiddle
are there anyone here ?
Mikett: can u please look what i am doing wrong jsfiddle.net/tWrG7/12
yo
document.body.appendChild(
    extend(document.createElement("div"), {
        textContent: "text",
        className: "bar"
    })
);
Raynos who is this for ?
Anyone
02:09
$('#search').keypress(function (e) {
var str = $('#search').val();
var url = "default.aspx?search=" + str;
if (e.keyCode == 13) {
location.href = url;
}
});
it's just kind of a neat way of writing code
what it does
Raynos can you please help where i am stuck jsfiddle.net/tWrG7/13
pretty cool but document.createElement is verbose :) how about element.make("div") or something
it creates a div and adds it to the body :\
02:10
@Raynos Can you help me explain why this my code snippet doesn't work as I expect : "when I enter in the input the browser will redirect to another page ", but it goes to ~/.default.aspx [ without paramter ] T.T
@Esailija lol what?
@nXqd NO U
@MianKhurramIjaz NO U
document.createElement is annoying to write :;(
sorry can sone one please help jsfiddle.net/tWrG7/13
Esailija :)
@Esailija how is Element.make any shorter
If we had Element("div") then that would be nice
hmm maybe el.make("div")
then you could have
el.byId( "id")
and so on
very short and yet still descriptive somewhat
:D
02:13
all i want is to populate my view with data from some collection
@Esailija i hurd u liek maek library
var div = document.createElement("div")

extend(div.dataset, { dateId: calendarEvent.Date
                    , calendarId: calendarEvent.CalendarId
                    , eventDateId: calendarEvent.Id
                    })

extend(div, { className: [ "event"
                         , "cal" + calendarEvent.CalendarId
                         , calendarEvent.CalendarClassName
                         ].join(" ")
            , id: calendarEvent.EventId
            , textContent: calendarEvent.DisplayName
I can't tell whether that code is ugly or nice
it doesn't get much nicer with regular js
I actually thing extend(div, props) is a nice readable pattern
yes it's certainly better than setting them one at a time
A neater way is like this. ;D

$("<div class=\"bar\">text</div>").appendTo("body");
02:20
@Mikett a neater way is a punch in the fucking throat
It was only a joke, you don't have to take it so literally. xD
jQuery you could just use:
$("<div>", {
text: "text",
className: "bar"
} ).appendTo("body");
it won't even use innerhtml
@Esailija again thing is why bother
document.body.appendChild(
    extend(document.createElement("div"), {
        textContent: "text",
        className: "bar"
    })
);
It is nice to extend things, but the process of extending properties to anything takes more time to load than a simple string combination.
I mean why bother using jQuery :(
02:22
and what if you need innerText :( it's why we bother
@Esailija hurr durr y u no dom shim
cos just writing innerText support in that you are already on the way to reinventing the wheel
@Mikett ... You think the overhead of "extending objects" is larger then the overhead of jQuery parsing your string to extract the properties then to attach them?
your "wheel" , @Esailija , comes with a whole garbage dump and a kitchen sink
02:24
Why bother using jQuery? It makes short work of your code, (that means you won't have to spend as much time typing,) as well as keeping it legible.
@tereško, well that would happen eventually not at first :D
@Mikett
gist: jQuery library critique, 2011-12-01 14:15:09Z
# jQuery

`$` itself is a god object. Everything goes on it. The standard plugin / extension architecture that is recommended is to just bolt more methods on `$` itself!

Surely this is bad. An example would be how we have both `$.load` which is overloaded to do completely different things. If they were on two separate sensibly named objects `$Container.load` and `$EventTarget.load`. Personally I would deprecate the latter in favour of `.on('load'`

The animation should be it's own little modular thing, not bolted onto `$`. Ajax should be it's own little modular thing, not bolted onto `$`

# `$` 

This is overloaded to three functions. It would be more sensible to have `select`, `construct` and `domready` as there seperate entities.

# `$.get`, `$.getJSON`, etc

We have some subset of `$.ajax` short cuts which are uneven. These should be removed.

# `$.attr`

What does it even do? It doesn't just set / get attributes. It does a whole bunch of weird logic for backwards compat.

# `:text`, `:checked` `:button`

Useless, slow utility selectors. Having these things promotes bad and slow code. You wouldn't want to use them for performance penalities. They also make the CSS selector a joke by throwing propitiatory selectors in the mix. 

At least split the selector engine into two, one that adheres to (a subset of) standards and one which have their own extensions.

# `.css` 

css isn't bad as such. But it's overused, a lot. We do need a cross browser style manipulation utility but we don't need documentation recommending you use it everywhere.

The community seems to _forget_ the massive penalty that is causing re flows. editing in-line css is slow and should be avoided

# `.toggle`

Another overloaded method that shouldn't be overloaded, that's just plain confusing

# `.wrap`, `.live`

These shouldn't exist.

# `.each`, `.map`, etc

Doesn't match the `.forEach`, `.map`, etc signature. Massively confusing

# `.map`

Hey, lets flatten the returned array! Surely that's an useful "feature"!

# `.domManip` 

domManip executes all scripts irregardless of their status. It does not bother to check whether they are [inserted into a document][1] nor does it bother to check whether their "already started" flag is set.

> The first is a flag indicating whether or not the script block has been "already started". Initially, script elements must have this flag unset (script blocks, when created, are not "already started"). The cloning steps for script elements must set the "already started" flag on the copy if it is set on the element being cloned.

# `.bind`

`Function.prototype.bind` exists. Pick a better name

# Swallowing exceptions and silent errors

jQuery never gives any error messages and tries as hard as possibly not to fail or bubble up internal exceptions. It just likes to swallow all errors.

# `.data`

It only _reads_ from `data-` properties once on load and never reads/writes to them again. This is frustrating. 

Either it shouldn't have anything to do with `data-` properties or it should be a cross browser `.dataset` emulation, not some kind of halfway in between thing.

This does not help debugging at all.

# `.extend`

extend only deep copies "plain objects". Which is rather useless if you use prototypical OO because properties with enumerable non-own properties are not plain. 

This basically means the deep extend is a joke and should be avoided. There is no warning about this "feature".

  [1]: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/infrastructure.html#insert-an-element-into-a-document
its just no use @Raynos , they wont listen
@Esailija again all you have to do is Element.prototype.textContent = { ... } to fix the dom, problem solved.
@tereško some of them might just be uneducated rather then retarded
no help for me today ?
02:25
@MianKhurramIjaz no help for you :(
why please
@MianKhurramIjaz did you even open the console? :\
Did you bother reading the error
@Raynos , they are uneducated because they are willfully ignorant ... you would have better success with the retarded
02:26
i am debuggging
@Raynos and then what, make a setter? IE7 doesn't support Element prototype let alone setters :P
Element.prototype isn't supported by IE8 and below.
(Haven't checked IE9).
@Esailija who supports IE7 :\
Raynos have a look at this new one jsfiddle.net/tWrG7/13
@Mikett Element.prototype works in IE8
02:27
Not in standard mode.
and you can support ie6/7 with htcs
@Mikett ... y u troll
@MianKhurramIjaz why you no debug yourself
i wish i was like you people
@Mian_Khurram_Ijaz What do you mean?
but i am very quick learner and if the backbone.js would have thrown good docs i would pick stuff up from there normally
i want my view to get populated with the Models data but it is not happening
@Mian_Khurram_Ijaz It just takes practice. I taught myself all I know. Started out with HTML, then JavaScript, then CSS, PHP, ect...
02:30
do u know backbone.js
if even the basic stuff in backbone.js is so hard for you I don't know why you bother.. IIRC I helped you for a few hours just to get an ajax request done
the framework is pretty unusable if you aren't ready to understand the source code IMO
thanks Esailija and i proceeded further with that help i understood what the docs wanted to say
do u understand backbone.js because you have read its code ?
other wise it is not good documented yea?
well I made my own framework from it
I just can't stand the syntax some people use, I spent the whole time rearranging your code Mian, just to add one line. >.<
@Mikett that's what the tidyup button is for
02:33
i am sorry Mikett i am just practicsing thats why other wise i put comments
thanks i pressed it now jsfiddle.net/tWrG7/14
its all tidy
Mian, try Google Chrome or Apple Safari for a better capable browser. (Webkit is the best right now.) Or if you insist, use the FireBug plugin for FireFox. Either way, if you don't understand a method any script uses, go to a page the script is on, open the console, and type in the method to see the function. I'm sure you can understand it by reading it, right?
since he asked what document.body.appendChild( document.createElement("div") ) does.. it's very doubtful =D
i am using firebug console
I don't really like JSFiddles syntax all that well either.

JSFiddle:

var name = function([arguments])
{
if(condition)
{
/* Code Here */
}
}

Me:

var name = function([arguments]) {
if(condition)
{
/* Code Here */
}
}
Dang, the chat makes it look the same.
your one looks nice :)
02:38
press ctrl+k to format
can some one have a look at jsfiddle.net/tWrG7/14 and tell me what golden words i require to display data from collection ?
No, it looks crappy. xD Dang chat and its non-preservative white spaces.
@Mikett ctrl + k
how did you do that
02:40
amazing
...
thats backbone.js
hahahahah
haha jquery kids
sorry
02:43
lolz
@Esailija Thanks? x3
@ThomasBlobaum, what's this github.com/tblobaum/nodeQuery
thats the new internets
didnt you hear
so should i go and start smooking or would i get any one to help this poor backbone.js guy ?
Would it be considered "funny" if I put reddit in feeds?
02:44
@MianKhurramIjaz show me the money
I mean the spam would come in hard and fast
ok how much
@ThomasBlobaum your expensive :\
i dont even get the quarter of this maan
02:45
I only charge £100/hr
it probably wont take me long
or 500/hr
depends on how much I feel like helping
hmm well it is not a good day for me then
wish you lovely life .
Everything about the backbone code you did is wrong, like I said before, read the tutorials
may be some other time i find some one like Esailija :) i miss you brother
02:47
@MianKhurramIjaz I helped you earlier
dont guilt trip
Sailija: i have almost memorized the tutorial but it does not help in syntax
initialize: function() {
            model: Person,
            this.render();
        }
how does that code even run
i.e. what syntax it requires from me to pull the data out from the collectiona nd dispay it
@MianKhurramIjaz i tutor for $75/hr
02:49
I didn't know either Esailija. xD When I was rephrasing it, the comma and colon confused me.
it looks like it would be interpreted as a label
[Here](www.the-random-website.com/pages/games/shooter/index.html) is an example of my work. Works best in a webkit based browser.
I tried to use marquees as much as I could to save the computer a lot of looping.
I was originally making it for a HTApplication is why there are a few bits to it that don't make any since. (Like the fact it tests for a no internet connection situation.)
cool
02:54
Are you using a webkit browser? xD
yes google chrome
but why aren't you doing it in canvas
Google Chrome is the browser of choice for me. x3 I like the fact that is launches multiple applications for each tab and extension that the browser uses.
Because it is meant to be cross-browser capible.
@Mikett why u no canvas
02:57
* capable
Y U NO CANVAS
Didn't you read my last message?

Because it is meant to be cross-browser capable.
well it doesn't run in ie8 for me
how to get the model instance from within a different view ?
and ie9 has canvas
oops I was in IE7 mode
02:59
how to make a independent view update him self from different model
but it lags like hell in ie8
For me it does, and I have IE8 as well.

It just notifies you when you run it in IE (or any non-webkit based browser,) that the game won't be running at it's full abilities.

I know, and in FireFox. The animation for the cursor freezes all the marquees.
Well, I gotta go.
03:40
What am I doing wrong here pastebin.com/VAhBmF9K . I changed something inside chkPosNum() and the script stopped working but I can't find any error
Back.
Use JSFiddle. jsfiddle.net And use Apple Safari or Google Chrome's error console. Or the Firebugs extension if you use FireFox.
 
2 hours later…
05:51
hello every one
anyone around?
06:34
hey is any around? i need help with ajax and javascript!
i shall state my problem here.. I have an index.html page which has a prettyPhoto.js script in it. i have some menu links on my index.html. say one of these is "video gallery" now i load video gallery through Ajax and it loads fine. but the problem is i cannot get prettyPhoto.js to work in the external loaded file. Does anyone know how to do this?
06:54
Is there any simple and easy method to pass code to a new window . I want to duplicate the code of the parent window and then edit it accordingly. Is this possible ?
07:45
“Today, the IETF published RFC 6454, The Web Origin Concept, and RFC 6455, The WebSocket Protocol” @adambarth http://www.schemehostport.com/2011/12/rfc-6454-and-rfc-6465.html
Hyperlinked HTML versions of the Web Socket and Web Origin RFCs http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6455 http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6454
08:11
Hi everyone.
08:54
hi
I am in need of help with jquery for my ruby application. I am displaying items in a tree fashion.I want to maintain expand/collapse state of the tree
I have used the jquery treeTable plugin
Please let me know a suitable way to implement it
09:58
@ramya: you're better off asking obscure jQuery-plugin questions on the main site. Many people here are JS purists or just don't have experience with many plugins.
If you did ask on the main site, posting a link to your question might also be a good idea.
ATTENTION: Ask questions on the main site before asking for assistance here. Start by posting a single link to your question.
14
room topic changed to JavaScript: Discussion for the language and its libraries - jQuery, Prototype, MooTools, et al. Expect some constructive criticism if your code sucks. [cowbell] [javascript] [jawesome] [jquery] [mootools] [nyan] [prototypejs]
0
Q: loading javascript in Ajax loaded page

Tanmayi shall state my problem here.. I have an index.html page which has a prettyPhoto.js script in it. i have some menu links on my index.html. say one of these is "video gallery" now i load video gallery through Ajax and it loads fine. but the problem is i cannot get prettyPhoto.js to work in the ex...

could any answer this for me please!
@Tanmay: good example, thank you.
@AndyE good example for what? the guidelines that you posted for the chat room?
Correct.
10:14
ok. but more importantly do you know the answer to the question i posted?
@Tanmay: I'll have a look for you.
alright. Thanks a lot! spent neaarly 3 hours searching the net for some results..no luck yet
@Tanmay: haynar's answer is pretty much the first thing that came to mind when I read your question. You're initializing prettyPhoto before the content is loaded via AJAX.
yes i corrected that piece of code and made it like this
<script src="../js/jquery.prettyPhoto.js" type="text/javascript"></script>
<div class="article-box">
<a href="images/featured-side-1.jpg?ajax=true" rel="prettyphoto">Image test</a>
</div>
<script type="text/javascript" charset="utf-8">
$("a[rel^='prettyPhoto']").prettyPhoto();
</script>
Hello
is someone there??
10:22
that didnt do any good for me.. then i removed the script tag from there and put it in index.html
same problem
@Tanmay, I don't see how that would help, but I can make a few suggestions you can try
hello Tanmay... and Andy E
sir i have a small problem ..
ok. i shall try those also if you could give me a name to search on Google. I am clueless as to what to put in as the search query
@raman hellp
*hello
hello sir
sir i have a hidden field and i m setting its value using javascript
but i dont know y its value at server side coming null
my code is
<script type="text/javascript">


function Selected(obj, id) {
var hdd = $('[id$=hdd_jobid]')
$("#tableOne tr").removeClass("selected");
$("#tableOne tr").addClass("even");
if (obj.className != 'selected') {
obj.className = 'selected';
hdd.val = id;
alert(hdd.val);
}
else {
obj.className = 'prev_class';

}
}
</script>
@raman really sorry about that. but i dont have your solution. why dont you try posting a question and then come here if it is not answered. This is what Andy E wrote ATTENTION: Ask questions on the main site before asking for assistance here. Start by posting a single link to your question. as guidelines
10:33
@Tanmay: I've posted an answer for you
0
A: loading javascript in Ajax loaded page

Andy EAs haynar mentioned, the content is loaded after prettyPhoto has been initialised. To work around this problem, you need to call the prettyPhoto initialisation function after loading the new content. To make your life a whole lot easier (and your code a whole lot neater), change your loadXMLDoc...

i am on it now..will get back to you in some time
I want to build a mobile website, and I wonder how you acheive effects such as pushing/popping on a stack? The same way iOS do? Do you use JQuery for this?
10:49
0
Q: how to insert a HTML form into a javascript popup?

DanielI'm working on a plugin that generates a list of candidates as output. For each candidate there is a link (View Details) that once is clicked, a popup appears. I need to put a simple contact form into that popup, so when a visitor click on the candidate's link, the popup appear and the visitor ca...

0
A: jQuery - create an array containing images located in a server folder

Rory McCrossanjQuery is a client-side language, so it is impossible for it to directly interact with your server to get a file list from a folder. To achieve this you'd need to use a server-side language such as PHP or ASP.Net to get the file list. You could then write this straight to the page, or use jQuer...

lololol
haha
That was actually funny:)
he is saying jQuery is a language like ASP.NET and PHP are languages
=)=)=
or at least implying
11:06
@Esailija: he's fixed it now :-p
but you didn't fix him
he thinks it's semantics! :D
@Esailija: perhaps, but maybe he'll think about it before calling jQuery a language next time
The quote by teresko isn't starred anymore but it's related
"If someone calls themselves a jQuery developer, there is a big vast empty space between their ears" or something :D
heh
of course it didn't apply to someone actually being a jquery developer, as in developing the jquery core :P
12:05
room topic changed to JavaScript: Discussion for the language and its libraries. Expect some constructive mockery if your code sucks. [cowbell] [javascript] [jawesome] [jquery] [mootools] [nyan] [prototypejs]
> constructive mockery
My favourite \o/
Who knew Yale had Open Courses as well?
12:26
posted on December 12, 2011

Last week I did some research on the resize event on mobile and tablet browsers. Executive summary: it’s a mess. And the best browser, surprisingly, is Samsung’s Dolfin. My conclusions are, summarised: Many browsers agree the resize event should be fired when the dimensions of the visual viewport, the layout viewport, or the HTML element change. If a browser can change the s

WORLD Y U SO SMALL
12:54
1. Inside which HTML element do we put the JavaScript?
<scripting>
<script>
<js>
<javascript>
lol
Is that the JavaScript quiz from W3Schools?
Yep
chuckles
not a good question imo
im curious about shouldilearnjavascript.com
it says: Seriously, learn Javascript, not just jQuery.
And please, don't use w3schools.com as a learning material.
is it possible to know jQuery without knowing JavaScript
@tehdoommarine are you trolling?
13:04
no, i'm still very new to this stuff
@tehdoommarine "HURR DURR CAN I .NET WITHOUT C#"
or "HURR DURR CAN I J2EE WITHOUT JAVA"
"CAN I RAILS WITHOUT RUBY"
@tehdoommarine jQuery is a mediocre library, ignore it.
Go spend your time on something useful like learning javascript
and ofc not by w3schools
correct
MDN is a reasonable place to start
kk
mozilla?
yes
13:12
alrighty, bookmarked. thank you very much.
i use firefox btw for browsing
man being sick sucks
I cannot even remember my phone number let alone do some good coding
:D
@Esailija could be worse
also, cannot smoke :<
Smoking is bad anyway.
@Esailija see, it got worse.
13:16
@rlemon, yeah true lol
@copy reminding smokers that it is bad for them is also bad for your health.
Only if you were here and could beat me.
I just lit a smoke - the second hand will get you eventually. ftw
ugh - stupid updates.. bbl
13:51
@Esailija , do you have have Swedbank on your side of puddle ?
hmm
seems that they operate in finland as well, yes @tereško
where there any indications about it "sinking" ? because on this end people began to panic yesterday
I have no idea, actually never heard of it before, I had to google to know if we had it :D
heh
so its not big on your end
something on the news about people panicking about it in latvia :P
13:57
how would i determine if an element is contenteditable.
yeah , twitter .. hear-say .. people are jumpy
to clerify - i know how to check for it - however i keep getting stuck checking the attribute and the property (set in html or js seems to make a difference here????)

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