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12:01
o/
@Meredith Yes, you should.
@darkyen00 Nice
As you go between form pages (in order), you may want to display the details already entered so far
Also, what's that green $200 at the top left?
@SecondRikudo straight checkout
That's not clear
Add a shopping cart icon or a tooltip
12:12
am terrible at dawing icons. :-) and yeap will do :D
ps i wrote this all in 6 hours :-D on hipster-delorean
needs more states etc though
@SecondRikudo font-awesome won't suffice
You can use it as inspiration for SVG stuff though
12:12
i use typicons
TypeError: Cannot read property 'length' of undefined
hmm :-)
@BartekBanachewicz where at ?\
welcome again, old friend
@darkyen00 everywhere
it's pretty much the only error I ever get in JS
@BartekBanachewicz y u no traceur]
@darkyen00 There's a shopping cart icon there too
12:13
and use the :array ?
@SecondRikudo I want to add something like a lid
@darkyen00 implicit nullability?
@BartekBanachewicz Maybe an extension?
or do type annotations guarantee non-nulls?
@BartekBanachewicz :-/ have u seen the facebook typechekcer ?
@darkyen00 no.
12:15
^ I am using it now, gonna push it in the next commit
> but traditional type systems would consider it well typed:
they meant shitty type systems
well, it looks pretty okay
@darkyen00 Interesting
no dumbfuck type annotations at least
:-) Facebook's Flux, Flow, React <3
@BartekBanachewicz I like type annotations
12:17
and it's written in OCaml, which is a reasonable language for this thing
@SecondRikudo noise. most of the time
Not for compilers and checkers, but for other devs reading it.
Is it comparable to Purescript's type system?
@SecondRikudo if you wan't to use Flux someday check out github.com/deloreanjs/delorean
@JanDvorak i don't think so
or github.com/darkyen/hipster-delorean <- for a complete starter kit (WIP don't bite atm)
12:17
Purescript has real type system. What Flow proposes is more a guessing game about JS programs
@BartekBanachewicz Flow handles most of cases for me
@SecondRikudo yeah, keep them on outer APIs. Inside of the implementation they're mostly just noise
my productivity has increased ~10% since using flow
@BartekBanachewicz No arguments there.
no more type errors
but i am using most of facebook's toolchain
12:18
Purescript's inferred type for {x:1, x:2} is forall a.{x:Number, y:Number|a}
function foo(a: mixed, b: number): void { ... }
var x: boolean;
class Bar {
  y: string;
}
flows annotations btw ^
doesn't look terrible
oh, look at that
function length(x) {
  if (x !== null) {
    return x.length;
  } else {
    return 0;
  }
}
that's well typed
looks a lil like Action Script or some language i have used .
12:20
wut ?
I mean sure, Flow looks like an okay tool for existing JS code.
Con: it's from Facebook
But it's really not comparable to proper type systems of good languages, imho, if they propose to solve nullability like this.
true... Maybe FTW
I mean, they have to work with what JS offers.
12:21
Con: type error swallowing
@JanDvorak why is being from facebook a con ?
@darkyen00 because facebook sucks
So yeah, yet another tool that works around JS being shitty.
Making even more workarounds
It's not that bad...
4/10 would use if forced to write JS
@JanDvorak what, Flow or JS?
12:22
I'd rather use Javascript (even if ES5) than PHP
But then again I'd like to learn Purescript
@JanDvorak I'd totally go against that
the engineering team at facebook is damn good (Flux, React)
Flux + React >> Angular (There is no way you can write crappy code after you start understanding flux, understanding it takes half a week though)
your call. There's still type error swallowing.
@JanDvorak how are they error swallowing
in build step flow throws errors straight on your face
@darkyen00 I call bullshit.
add it as a gulp / grunt task just after ES6ify -> roll !
@BenjaminGruenbaum I call having to port all my angular 1.x -> angular 2.x utter bullshit
12:24
You sound just like you did after you started learning Angular.
length(null) //=> 0; length({}) //=> undefined
@BenjaminGruenbaum meh :P I have spent a month on react now :-) am quite happy with it
There is no silver bullet, not in languages and certainly not in frameworks. Flux has a lot of weak spots.
12:25
Lots of global state ends at the dispatcher.
flux for small projects is an overkill, also for good old web pages it is just useless
Not the disadvantages at all...
length(undefined) //=> typeError
Flux seems in early days of evolution, multiple different implementations
and analogies out of it.
It's been what? Half a year now? Probably more?
12:26
@BenjaminGruenbaum yeap, still people are damn confused about how to flux
Flux is an architecture, there are no 'different implementations' of it any more than there are different implementations of MVC - it's just something you design your code in mind with.
@JanDvorak well that's not really a big achievemnt
@BenjaminGruenbaum interpretation*
Flux is really simple, it's not any more confusing than MVC or MVP - it's just a UI architecture.
Also, Flow is a nice idea. I think it has a long way to go though. It's kind of weak.
Also, it has some terrible defaults.
You use trypescript ?
12:28
I still don't get why put all this effort into Flow instead of pushing for bytecode spec
@BartekBanachewicz rapid deployment, they want to port their code one file at a time.
We have how many, 10? 15? different ways to type JS now
["Hello",5] is not usually intended, you rarely have that and flow assumes it's an array of string or number.
maybe more
12:28
boom boom
good morning!
Having multiple compile to languages is good. Sure - it creates fragmentation but it also evolves the web.
Typescript is kinda devolving the web TBH
I used TypeScript btw, I didn't like it but they fixed a lot of stuff very recently (like union types and reasonable inference)
so they're approaching Java 7 finally?
12:31
I am doing lot of OO PHP these days. Superb fun! :D
@AwalGarg I didn't know you were into BDSM.
@BartekBanachewicz ;P
c'mon dude... it is good.
what is good
BDSM? I suppose it's a matter of taste
lol nope
A lot of people swear by it
12:32
PHP
grabs popcorn
I am not sure if it's funny or sad
I mean we've been over that so many times
I am not going to have a language battle now
@SecondRikudo ... :D
@AwalGarg I mean if I pointed out at something you consider absolutely awful, like child trafficking, you'd also give me a weird look
for someone who likes languages, like me, saying that PHP is good publicly is a faux pas
12:34
sips on drink
Child trafficking doesn't have goto and a horrible type system and a lot of globals. So probably better than PHP.
6
@BenjaminGruenbaum goto cage;
@BartekBanachewicz I know what is wrong with PHP, but I know how to use the good parts, the good way.
goto colombia
I feel bad for starring that.
12:35
@AwalGarg So what? PHP's good parts are relatively good compared to all of the shit in it. Compared to other solutions we have, they are mediocre at best.
If they drop the $ sign from variables, and remove all globals, and maybe have some module system for functions, ... and yeah, rename all functions consistently, (and some other things), the language is best of all.
@AwalGarg that just makes it painfully obvious you don't really understand how serious PHP problems are.
@AwalGarg Won't happen, hopefully will happen eventually, won't happen, (won't happen).
Also what you said is years of development.
Development that isn't being done. Or started. Or even planned.
I know
12:37
PHP glorifies BC way too much to do said work.
@AwalGarg I understand you might like the feel of easily achieved success that PHP brings. But if you spent some time learning some other technology, you'd start appreciating the difference.
I think PHP 7 was the perfect opportunity to set things straight and start doing good
IMO, backwards compatibility should be dropped altogether from development. It is meaning less.
But of course, nothing happened.
@AwalGarg All of that is wishful thinking.
12:39
@AwalGarg Backwards compatibility will not be dropped altogether because they fear (and rightfully so) that it will divide the community.
@BartekBanachewicz goto hell;
Look at Python
There's Python 2 and Python 3
NOT THAT PART, rest python is pretty
And many are still using Python 2 XD, even for new projects.
Not everyone, that's the point.
12:40
@SecondRikudo honestly speaking, I do aswell.
Personally, I don't think it should be an issue.
FWIW I still use Lua 5.1
Development carries on, and eventually the 5 branch will be dropped/EOLed
FWIW I use Borland Turbo C 3.1 in exams.
FWIW I write all my code in handwritten ASM
12:41
FWIW I write all my projects with MSPaint
FWIW Computer writes code itself Jon Skeet, when JON SKEET gazes at it
PHP gets shit done, and the benefits of investing time in a new language are not worth it.
46
Q: How did this person code "Hello World" with Microsoft Paint?

Eamonn O'BrienI have just seen this within the past few days and cannot figure out how it works. The video I talk about is here: It's the top rated answer from this Stack Overflow question: Why was this program rejected by three compilers? How is this bitmap able to show a C++ program for "Hello World"?

@AwalGarg if you want a dildo try Laravel
you'd get more fun out of BDSM
@AwalGarg The problem is that with most software development, it's not "getting shit done" that's the problem.
12:42
@AwalGarg are not worth it - what do you base this assessment on?
It's "keeping it working, and not devolving into shit that's done"
@AwalGarg try same thing in python
@SecondRikudo which you sure know is perfectly possible with PHP, don't you?
you won't hate your own soul for the rest of your mortal existence.
@AwalGarg Indeed, but it depends on a lot of things.
12:43
@AwalGarg you might wanna ping php room people for backup.
Most PHP configurations cannot sustain 100 concurrent users
Not because it's impossible, but because most people have no clue on how to setup PHP correctly.
@SecondRikudo not the problem of the language
@AwalGarg PHP hides important things from beginners and that's the problem of the language
The major problem I have with PHP isn't the language itself (although there are problems)
It's the community.
@AwalGarg just try python will you ?
12:44
@darkyen00 nope :p
@SecondRikudo > Php is the worlds biggest templating engine
@AwalGarg see, if you didn't ever try anything else, your assessments about "it's not worth it" are just pulled out of your ass
@darkyen00 That was true 10 years ago, maybe.
@SecondRikudo I see. Most of the problem is with the crap load google suggests as "tutorials" about PHP.
@SecondRikudo people still use it like one.
12:45
@darkyen00 That's true.
<input value="<?php ?>">
my eyes can't sustain that Shit :x_x:
@AwalGarg Which keeps the level of the developers low
@BartekBanachewicz I tried python. I tried node. I have to try to try ruby. In all cases, yes, the benefits of the efforts are not worth it.
Which, in turn, affect decision making for the language's direction
Keeping the entire language aimed at medicore users at best.
@AwalGarg How many years have you spent on trying them compared to PHP?
12:46
@AwalGarg what did you try in python ?
Django / Flask / Web.py / <Something else> ?
@SecondRikudo That is unfortunate. But still not a good enough reason to put PHP behind the bars.
@AwalGarg it is, you just don't see it.
@AwalGarg Keep reading.
@darkyen00 pure python. Too lazy to get into django.
I'm tired with those debates
<bartek-mode>
12:47
@AwalGarg oi genius, use flask
you'd regret using php forever.
PHP is shit, its community is shit, its users are shit, its ecosystem is shit
ps what do you use in php ? some framework ... atleast a router ? or just do vanilla php files ?
stop using this POS
kill it with fire
everybody switch to Haskell
</bartek-mode>
@BartekBanachewicz fractional, I know.
@BartekBanachewicz Haskell is liesure
12:48
@darkyen00 is what
libuv exists, everyone should write their servers in C++
</BadJoke>
@darkyen00 yeah stop telling bad jokes
Aha, a mention of libuv...
@darkyen00 vanilla php files, a package for debugging while in developement. And a very simple custom routing lib I made myself.
libuv is neat :-)
teaches u so much :D, and basically tells you --- you know nothingm, GTFO.
12:48
> And a very simple custom routing lib
If anyone can explain to me in derp terms what I have to do to compile a version that will work with Kestrel on linux, I will award you one internet
BUT THERES NO POINT IN LEARNING FLASK YOU SEE
that's not even unreasonable. It's plain dumb.
12:49
@AwalGarg Well without writing a single line of code flask can give you proper routing, even security modules for users, handle orm like things for you
and you wouldn't feel haywired by the final product.
> Oak's words echoed... Be nice!
just saying give it a shot, its not bad to learn new things.
too much PHP
@AwalGarg open-source your custom router lib :-)
12:51
Hi. I have a JSON file with some data I want to use. What's the simplest library that would let me just loop through it? e.g <h2>{{data.title}}</h2>. There seems to be a lot of things out there
I want to see it :-)
@darkyen00 wait for january! ;p
Haskell is a terrible language.
It's not ready for prime time.
grabs a pizza
@JanDvorak ^
12:52
People who say Haskell is awesome (but don't know Haskell): Bartek
People who say Haskell is not really usable nor ready for prime time: People who created Haskell
Also, shitty whitespace sensitive syntax, hard to reason about abstractions and composability that does not work as promised.
@BenjaminGruenbaum bullshit
@BenjaminGruenbaum bullshit.
@BenjaminGruenbaum bullshit.
EVERYTHING IS BULLSHIT PHP ROCKS!!!
12:54
wow hulk.
in Lounge<C++>, Nov 13 at 12:08, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@BartekBanachewicz ITT Bartek humiliates himself by openly admitting lack of understanding of fundamental Haskell principles.
@AwalGarg stop embarrasing yourself already
@BenjaminGruenbaum CONTEXT, FOR THE SAKE OF FUCK
sigh
he's trolling me again, isn't he
@BartekBanachewicz please, be nice.
12:55
in Lounge<C++>, Nov 13 at 12:07, by Bartek Banachewicz
I totally don't get >>=
stop wasting my time ben.
Stop arguing against PHP
No.
PHP is a piece of shit.
It's a beautiful abstraction, tell him @AwalGarg
Yes
@BenjaminGruenbaum i guess he just wants Awal to give a shot to python.
12:56
@BenjaminGruenbaum It is not beautiful at all, unless they drop the $.
PHP is much better than Haskell, it's easier to reason about, it's simpler to use (why do new programmers start with PHP and not Haskell, eh?)
Haskell, however bad it is, with all of its flaws, is still orders of magnitude better language than PHP
@BenjaminGruenbaum because of the social reasons.
Which is why new developers are learning it, right?
Social reasons = it's not as shitty.
PHP is a solid and beautiful abstraction over web development.
12:57
I thought I am the one on bandwagon fallacy
1 min ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
he's trolling me again, isn't he
And I don't know Haskell, just tried there interactive tutorial once... it didn't suite me.
You are, I'm just giving you a taste of your medicine.
@AwalGarg you haven't tried anything.
@BartekBanachewicz How do you know?
Stop bandwagon and carpet argumenting.
12:57
@AwalGarg because your previous statements expose your blatant hypocrisy and lack of understanding about anything than PHP.
See ^ That stuff.
for fucks sake
@BartekBanachewicz One last time, be nice.
I think @BartekBanachewicz just doesn't know PHP very well, maybe you should write some PHP to get to know it better.
@BenjaminGruenbaum I'm done with you.
12:59
@BartekBanachewicz I know I am not as experienced as you guys, but that doesn't mean you will insult my tools with pointless points and I will listen to you nicely.
@AwalGarg they aren't pointless. You just lack perspective to see a point in them.
You've said openly that you haven't spent enough time with other solutions.
26 mins ago, by Awal Garg
I am not going to have a language battle now

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