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12:00
sure
Imagine Google doesn't like a politician in England, they got an infinite amount of dirt on them, or is it their wife? Or kids?
I have nothing private
"because you have agreed to the terms and conditions" isn't really something that can hold up in court, unconditionally.
They can leak their schedule, future plans, emails, etc.
@BenjaminGruenbaum that's good
12:00
How is that good?
@ziGi no, because it is controlled by a single for-profit company
@ziGi what if google goes evil ?
politicians should suffer for their misery
google is umbrella corporation
@ziGi well, they can also know all your banking credentials if that matters more for you
don't you get it?
@ziGi they can instill Politicians who agree to give them tax cuts.
you are seriously mentally challenged, don't you get it ?
They're also incredibly wealthy.
12:01
Oh you're so goddamn funny, @ziGi
@dystroy not really, I use a random reader to log in, so there are no banking credentials
The only thing keeping companies like Google intact is that as a company they're mostly filled with awesome geeks :P
Or, it's what they're having us think.
@BenjaminGruenbaum And the enormous amount of money Google generates ...
people are always scared from what they don't understand
they rule the world god damit
why would they messup ?
12:02
@ziGi imagine in 10 years you want to start a family, or start your own high tech company with a cool product idea
I'm waiting for Google to start a bank.
people are also scared from other people knowing their personal details which is a bit strange
GBank would be great, I'd use that.
Privacy is overrated.
@BenjaminGruenbaum and they steal it?
@ziGi now, you've got an awesome idea, a cool team and you're working hard on your way to be successful - the only problem is your product undermines a service of Google
12:02
i wonder if google read my emails about snapick
@ziGi they can extort you quite easily, they don't have to steal it.
oh fuck i am fucked Oh no :-/
The only think keeping them from doing so is bad PR
@ziGi: If your address is easily found online, and you post on facebook: "I'm off on vacation! Yay!", what if someone with malicious intent saw that?
That's like inviting burgulars to your home
Everything you've ever said on this chat or any other chat - they can use it against you in 20-30 years if they so please.
12:03
if you post that on facebook, you're just asking for trouble anyway
I have noting to be stolen
Bullshit
some cuttlery
@BenjaminGruenbaum you you you are scaring me
12:03
a laptop that I carry with me
@Cerbrus That's a bad idea by default
and books and clothes
Not just this place, stuff you think is private, they don't actually need thinks like tracking cookies, they have smart enough ML to figure out who you are by usage patterns.
@AbhishekHingnikar Google gonna steal you ;D
@BenjaminGruenbaum it is quite true
user1994804
12:04
wow... looks like i started a storm
How fast you type different letters, your writing style, mouse movement profile, interests - the possibilities are endless and they have the smartest people working on profiling users.
@BenjaminGruenbaum not "any other chat"
@Sippy they already have a product which goes against me
They have an infinite amount of training data.
additionally they might scan all that information and use your ideas because they are residing in their services
12:04
It doesn't really matter if you have anything that's worth stealing. as long as they think you do, they might break in
@AbhishekHingnikar I know haha, should we say bye now or later? :D
@BenjaminGruenbaum Stop, just stop now
HAMMERTIME!
Hahaha
i was about to get my android phone repaired
12:05
@AbhishekHingnikar oh, it's not just scary - it's insanely cool.
now i wanna nuke it.
You're not worth enough money to them :P
@BenjaminGruenbaum we could say the same for Microsoft or Apple
@AbhishekHingnikar Bit late for that, lol
@BenjaminGruenbaum Exactly this.
12:05
@ziGi no, not nearly.
@BenjaminGruenbaum well snapick goes against google + photos
Apply still sell you stuff, stealing your information is not their business model.
its like a battle i know i will lose :-/
Neither does Microsoft.
MS / Apple aren't nearly that big in the "user" business as google.
Not even close
12:06
@BenjaminGruenbaum yeah, right
They won't attempt that either since they're not nearly as good at it.
Facebook on the other hand...
The sheer amount of data google has on so many people, I wonder what they log and how they keep it, but I can imagine they could do a personality/character analysis based off just your online behaviour, or the parts they logged anyway
Same core business model - users are the product, advertisers are the client.
@BenjaminGruenbaum i am not on facebook
12:07
What facebook did - in that people are manually inputting all their private information is amazing, almost rude compared to the amount of work Google put into it :D
@BenjaminGruenbaum it hurts when you formulate it like this
Guess why FB bought whataspp? It's not because Whatsapp is very profitable
@JanDvorak If you aren't paying, you're the product
@BenjaminGruenbaum It's retarded how many people do that T_T
@JanDvorak but he's right
12:07
@BenjaminGruenbaum: And FB keeps nagging at you to enter more and more information
@Magikaas I'm using ABP
@JanDvorak advertisers are the client in most websites today - people are not very used to pay. What do you think Stack Overflow's business model is exactly?
@JanDvorak And thus you are untrackable?
@Cerbrus I like how they use a psychological model of completeness as well, that's very clever.
anyone with backbone.js
12:08
We create content, they make money, we also do free QA for them.
@Cerbrus they say they will close your profile if you don't update regularly your info
@Magikaas and thus I'm worthless to advertisers
People love 100%
An important thing to note is that Apple says it will collect almost no location information from your phone if you don't have location services turned on. To adjust your preference open up your device's Settings app (the silver cog) and toggle 'Location Services' to 'Off' if you don't want to be tracked.
I still think it's a good bargain and love SO, but it is what it is.
12:08
@ziGi: I've never seen that
I have read it in the Terms and Conditions because I read them
@AbhishekHingnikar they also anonymize it, and forbid apps to use a unique identifier for your phone for cross pap stuff.
Now I have a tool to know at what time precisely I walked to the bakery fetch a sandwich at any day... Thanks @AbhishekHingnikar
Hello All
@BenjaminGruenbaum best case: "sell swag" ? :-)
12:09
@ziGi I call BS, no one reads those - they're especially written to be hard to read :P
@JanDvorak Not really, you contribute information about an audience, your statistics help targeted advertising, even if you don't see it, personally
@AbhishekHingnikar and then they trace you without you knowing
@JanDvorak I wanted to buy swag, they're not selling :P They did however send me a t-shirt (I didn't get it yet)
@BenjaminGruenbaum I read and try to understand what I can
and I am a hipster and want to be against the mainstream
I'm scared I'm being tracked but I'm in awe at how amazing the technology is.
12:10
@ziGi they don't its mentioned
I am so hipster that I use android because it is too mainstream throughout hipsters to use iPhone
why do you mind tracking, actually?
2 mins ago, by SweetWisher ツ
anyone with backbone.js
Well, the abuse potential is huge
@AbhishekHingnikar how do you know they are not lying
12:10
@ziGi use blackbarry
@BenjaminGruenbaum same
@JanDvorak a friend of mine does
@ziGi because there is no point in them for tracking you
@SweetWisherツ god no,backbone is a horrible library with broken abstractions :D There are a bunch of people here who know how to use it though. Don't ask to ask questions - just ask.
google / facebook on the other hand has the business model just to track you
12:11
@BenjaminGruenbaum I'm scared of what will come out of it but I don't want the future to be as boring as the past so I'm really interested
@ziGi apple most likely traces that location for findmyiphone
stuff
and findmyipad
then who is that @BenjaminGruenbaum
@AbhishekHingnikar how can you confirm the righteousness of your words?
!!welcome SweetWisherツ
ps everybody knows apple sucks horribly at cloud services :P
12:12
@SweetWisherツ Welcome to the JavaScript chat! Please review the room pseudo-rules. Please don't ask if you can ask or if anyone's around; just ask your question, and if anyone's free and interested they'll help.
will surely ask when someone gets the attention
"righteousness " Psh
"correctness" maybe...
@BenjaminGruenbaum hey can u test it ?
@AbhishekHingnikar please edit your message.
how to use "navigate" method of backbone.js.. what to pass in first param.. I'm not able to navigate to another page
12:13
well I thought righteousness comes from right
@SweetWisherツ you mean the router?
but apparently it means something else
@SweetWisherツ have you seen Addy Osmani's Backbone book and in particular the chapter on routing?
12:14
Nop...
credibility is the word I think
@SweetWisherツ See this book: addyosmani.github.io/backbone-fundamentals It contains a chapter on routing and you can jump to that, or you can check out the examples. It's free.
!!define righteousness
@Cerbrus righteousness (uncountable) The quality or state of being righteous; holiness; purity; uprightness; rectitude. Righteousness, as used in Scripture and theology, in which it chiefly occurs, is nearly equivalent to holiness, comprehending holy principles and affections of heart, and conformity of life to the divine law.
@BenjaminGruenbaum Can you test google's chrome browser on various devices to confirm if the issue of degraded performance with huge images is not just windows with mediocre gpu only ?
12:14
@AbhishekHingnikar I meant the u part.
yeah edited that.
@BenjaminGruenbaum checkng..thanks :)
@AbhishekHingnikar Nope
what is the difference between backbonejs and underscorejs
@BenjaminGruenbaum I re-wrote the whole message !
12:15
@SweetWisherツ you're welcome - for what it's worth I believe Backbone's time is over.
@AbhishekHingnikar :P
My Microsoft's Internet Exploder Browser handles image scrolls at 60fps so does iPad iOS safari 7 (with like 1/100th power of my desktop). But Google's chrome browser lags sluggishly
@ziGi: bb and underscore do completely unrelated things
@ziGi have you tried reading what either of those things are before asking in here :P?
12:16
yes
I am stupid
No you haven't
I only have 3 devices at my house, and hence I would like to request you to assist me with this.
@Cerbrus well, they're written by the same guy and _ is a dependency of Backbone - so I wouldn't call them unrelated.
You're just being a pain in the ass, as usual
I thought backbone is a library of functions similar to underscore
12:16
@AbhishekHingnikar file a bug report.
so I was wondering what might be the big difference
but apparently it is more of a MVP
Well, it is a library but it's focused on different things.
@ziGi: Try to understand what both libraries do
I know what underscore does
but didn't know what bb does
It's basically an event emitter, router and opinionated view/model system.
12:17
now I do
GOOGLE IT
Goddamn
It's pretty rubbish but it has a good code base.
from what perspective is it rubbish
do you have pretty good knowledge about backbone?? @BenjaminGruenbaum
12:18
@ziGi Its abstractions are slow and naive, it doesn't really give you anything and it forces you to use Backbone model objects instead of JS objects - mostly. It has pros and cons and you should definitely try it out before formulating an opinion on it though.
want to ask silly question, if you permit
@BenjaminGruenbaum so what's your choice on data layer?
@SweetWisherツ I am, I'm just not a fan :P Just like I know Angular, React and Knockout but I'm not a huge fan of either (Although I like them a lot better than Backbone)
@BenjaminGruenbaum sure but I use AngularJS mostly so I am not sure why I should switch
@SweetWisherツ for the third time: Don't ask to ask just ask.
12:19
@BenjaminGruenbaum UFff
I was just wondering because you were talking about it
"todo/:id": "viewTodo",
.....

this.navigate("todo/" + id + '/edit');
@KamilTomšík I'm not sure what "Data layer" means, it's a very broad term which has different meaning in different layered approaches. If you mean the DAL the answer is one thing, if you mean 'where the business logic happens' that's another.
i'm confused here
is todo/id a template ??
how to pass the page url here ? and define it the same?
@BenjaminGruenbaum How do you communicate with backend?
12:21
@SweetWisherツ you should read the TodoMVC example at Addy Osmani's book it should clarify things. todo/:id is a route and viewTodo is the action that is executed when you get to that route.
then where is the template defined @BenjaminGruenbaum?
@KamilTomšík it really really depends on what I'm building. If it's small enough then ActiveRecord (like Backbone), if it's bigger than mostly through repositories, it really depends - there are more complicated solutions for different projects too.
that's much better than apple
@SweetWisherツ the router is agnostic to that, the view loads the template etc although some Backbone extensions allow you to couple the route to a template better. You should really read that book instead of asking me because it will help you a lot faster in the long run.
:D
or google
12:23
@BenjaminGruenbaum so for more complicated stuff your business objects (plain JS) queries some kind of DAOs?
@BenjaminGruenbaum Yaa but I am in hurry to finish the task :( will surely read that book
so seeking for the quick help If you are experienced one
@SweetWisherツ your boss will appreciate you more in the long run if you act like a professional and properly learn the stack you're using instead of doing quick fixes. Trust me it took me some time to figure this one out.
@KamilTomšík We could talk architecture and I could call what I get from the server DTOs and we could talk about the domain models and the model layer and all that but that's kind of pointless most of the time :D In all honesty I just don't think there is a one size fits all - it really depends on what you're building.
@BenjaminGruenbaum Hmmmm OKies.. thnks for that link:)
@KamilTomšík if you're modeling something specific or a specific app - then I'm all ears though. There are a lot of different ways to do this and there is no 'right' way but I hold some strong opinions on what to do and what not to do.. For example I really dislike having anything that isn't presentational by nature governed by anything other than plain JS.
(Or, whatever language you're using)
@BenjaminGruenbaum I agree with your statement, I was just curious what's your favorite framework/way of dealing with persistence in single page applications
12:30
@KamilTomšík it's a very hard problem to solve in the general case, I usually do whatever is the simplest thing that gets me by and then pay the price of refactoring the code when it grows bigger.
what was that website, that showed a list of websites in various screen sizes!!!
!!google website, that shows a list of websites in various screen sizes
One of those, per chance, @blackbee?
you definitly forgot the !!!
12:34
looking .. @Cerbrus
nopes
jeez, that map history is scary
didn't know google kept that
What does it do?
Mine's empty.
Same, mine's empty too
it shows everywhere I've been
or well, the route I've followed
Who knew that keeping track of your location means keeping track of where you've been
12:40
2deep4me
@BenjaminGruenbaum ok, thx :-)
hahahaha I just opened the location history thing on my phone
Why does google need to know that xD
@FlorianMargaine Scratch earlier comment, my dok was being a fucktard
cool
tell me more about it later then
@Cerbrus If you have a google account that you use on an Android device, sign into that account then look at it.
12:44
I don't have an android device
iphone
Lucky you haha
let's see
interesting about me part :P @BenjaminGruenbaum
@SweetWisherツ thanks :D
Their terminal's default theme is "l33t h4x", which is a nice touch
12:45
No location history from august 7th 'till now
@Zirak your dog's default terminal theme is 'l33t h4x'?
@Cerbrus But there is some beforehand?
I knew you had a dog but didn't know it was a n00b...
hah, your about me is cool @BenjaminGruenbaum
Just saw that from @SweetWisherツ
Haha, well if it isn't from The Hackerzz Group, then it doesn't count
12:46
@BenjaminGruenbaum she'll DDoS into ur router u fagget
@Zirak haxor n00b, if she try I hax her and sedn nude photos of her to all ur frnds. My ip is 127.0.0.1
@Sippy *Your
@Sippy: can't find any location history in the past 5 months
@BenjaminGruenbaum Omg did that just happen.
maybe you turned it off on your phone?
@BenjaminGruenbaum People these days...
12:48
I'm pretty sure they'd have something, if it was enabled for me
"You have 10 seconds left for editing" OMGGGGG
I turned it off on my google account, afaik
@Cerbrus Ah right
I just used you're in place of your .. I feel dirty :(
I see everything in detail :P the zoo, the festival I visited, probably can even combine with terrain view to see which animal I saw! :p
12:53
posted on September 05, 2014

For the first time we’re going to organise a design conference: dsgnday; 11th of November, Amsterdam. We just unveiled our speakers, and it’s going to be quite a nice conference, if I say so myself. Seeing that he’s the designer, Stephen Hay curates this conference, and he invited the following speakers: Mark Boulton Bonnie Colville-Hyde Val Head Laura Kalbag Leisa R


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