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18:00
then I would make my own app and refer to references
Ok, so this book is like a tutorial for people learning HTML5
So why shouldn't they at least mention it?
I have a decent vocabularly
but these html5 and js and jquery books
they test my limits
Im not disagreeing with you on that, really, I would just gloss over it I imagine.
make it so much more difficult to read and understand just cause the author wants to sound intelligent
yeah I generally don't read tech books straight through
unless its something I am REALLY interested in
18:03
ive been getting these books from my uni for design
Internet has so much information available now for free.
half of them are great, they use some heavy vocab when absolutely necessary
but they focus on the art of simplicity and the ability to explain in detail
others are just throwing the dictionary at you.
@jcolebrand didnt see the 2nd question tbh I first heard about Razor on SO :P
@Loktar was it a comment on a Q?
probably so
but I am stuck developing in asp.net 2.0 :?
18:04
The point being, it has to get mentioned somewhere before you know about it
@Loktar ouch
yeah I want to use MVC, hear so many great things about it
but we are stuck in the stone age.
Yeah its a good point @jcolebrand
@Loktar stone age high five!
haha you stuck in 2.0 as well @RyanKinal?
@Loktar Yep. Web forms, even
same.
My biggest issue is I know this is hurting my marketability on the server side of things.
18:06
At least we're getting more into WebServices now
Which makes me happy
so Ive been really trying to concentrate on JS and client side technologies.
@Loktar Hah, definitely. never thought about that.
... now I'm a little sad
> In 2011, MS-DOS is still used in some enterprises to run legacy applications, such as this US Navy food service management system.
FAIL
lol
the rationale is, "It works"
and theres so much more tied to it on the government end... people want job security. Probably some 50 yr old still maintaining it whos had the job for the last 20 years :?
user1385191
government stuff is Microsoft everything
user1385191
18:12
$$$
its used at the dmv... hence why it takes 8 hours to renew your plates -.-
yes unfortunately.
@IvoWetzel It runs the phones here.
Oh, @IvoWetzel Reddit's making a stink about your garden. reddit.com/r/programming/comments/kketr/…
"Interesting, tell me more"
Reddit, apparently, can stink about anything, or so I've heard.
18:22
@Nathan Dude, I made a comment in there like "I thought everyone at least knew about this" and they're jumping all over me like I slaughtered an infant.
> I think I learned more from reading the code powering it than from the rest of the content on the site.
That's quite the compliment, there
not really
lots of $ in there
Ah, hadn't looked :-)
user1385191
there's a big fat $(window) that sticks out as well
18:27
I that case, "lulz n00b"
but... I blame @YiJiang!
user1385191
blame him for the wonderful styling
I have a server I'm not really using, it's 128mb ram 20gb, trying to think of what to do with the thing...
I own it for the next year.
in another story.. made a big mistake today... started watching DBZ all over again...
Seriously, I have no qualms about using jQuery when I need something done quick and dirty. Hell, I have no qualms about using jQuery when I have the time to do things properly.
18:30
@Incognito Minecraft will like your rams
@IvoWetzel Ugh. DBZ.
@RyanKinal Gnah... jQuery is nice for what it is: DOM manipulation on standard WebSites, but for huge apps or even Games it's way too slow and way to stupid in its error handling
user1385191
the only remote use I see for it is animation
@RyanKinal German version is actually pretty good, we also go the original japanese music over here (and only one dub... which also makes things easier I guess)
18:32
I just like using the selectors
but for that I could use sizzle I guess.
So I've worked with different softwares here at the hospital. The oldest, mainframey stuff (iSeries/OS400 greenscreens) is straight out of the 60s. But it's more stable and the user experience is better than the "newer" Windows apps from the 80s/90s
@Loktar Aren't jQuery selectors just sizzle anyway?
yeah
user1385191
@RyanKinal literally and figuratively
user1385191
it's such a perfectly named "engine"
18:37
0
Q: Can WordPress be made to support websockets?

EAMannWebsockets are a cool, cutting-edge technology wrapped into HTML5. Basically, you can open a websocket to enable persistent, 2-way communication with a web server. The client (user interface) can spontaneously send messages, and the server can send messages too. Existing technology (JavaScript...

I think next time I write a non-work application (that requires a decent amount of JS), I'll just use querySelectorAll
user1385191
try using NWMatcher instead
user1385191
QSA is buggy
18:58
Help learn from past mistakes: area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/5169/…
@Zirak If I knew more about history, I might commit, but I don't know much. Bits and pieces about things I'm interested in (like swing/blues dance, programming/computing, music, etc.) but probably not enough to answer questions.
Sadly, dance.stackexchange.com will likely never happen.
@Loktar :(
VB.NET 2.0
no markability
@MattMcDonald what do you mnean QSA is buggy?
@MattMcDonald what does that have to do with anything
you know QSA is native right
its not sizzle, its not jQuery
Please tell me your trolling
I expect more from you :(
anyone have much experience with JQuery Mobile?
user1385191
19:31
I know what QSA is, and its problems are very similar to the DOM's
user1385191
very inconsistent implementations
How can browsers mess up css selectors?
They already made them in...css.
@MattMcDonald really? can I see a list of bugs?
user1385191
19:51
@MattMcDonald I could not see any of those bugs as being actual bugs
@rlemon I have some experience with jQM
20:13
My goodness, what happened to the W3C this month? :) Dozens of new standards...
I just asked a question involving window.onunload and window.open
1
Q: Why does window.open(...).onunload = function () { ... } not work as I expect?

Steven OxleyI want to be able to tell when a window that I open is closed by the user. This is the code of my attempt at monitoring this: <html> <head> <script type="text/javascript" src="http://code.jquery.com/jquery-1.4.2.min.js"></script> <script type="text/javascrip...

can anyone shed some light on why this works the way it does?
and how i can get it to do what i want?
is there a script for JS or PHP I can make that auto triggers a redirect as soon as a certain url is visited in my browser?
could probably make an extension
if on windows you could edit the hosts file :P
there is an api I am using and its devs are shitty...once I submit a form using the API it redirects me to an ugly page with xml reports showing....they have a "technician" working on it....I prefer just redirecting...
@Loktar I don't think that's actually windows-dependent
20:22
their service is super slow considering I get a response after 2-3 weeks
dang cant edit it now @RyanKinal
and anything I report to them as an error they tell me " sorry will be fixed in future versions"
never thought about host file on other os's.
@Loktar Anything *nix based should have a /etc/hosts
20:23
makes sense
@ErrorErrorError Man. That sucks.
@RyanKinal so there is no way? :(
hey everyone :)
does anyone have any idea as to why this wouldnt work:

...
 <script type="text/javascript" src="jquery.js">
	 $(function() {
     $(".JMyCarousel").jMyCarousel({
         visible: '100%',
        eltByElt: true
     });
});
</script>
     <script type="text/javascript" src="JMyCarousel.js"></script>
</head>
<body style="margin:0 auto; background-color:#CCC;">
<div class="main_wrapper">
	<?php include_once "template_header.php"; ?>
        <div id="index_page_content">
        <table width="950" border="0" align="center" cellpadding="5px">
user1385191
problems aplenty
fml
i followed the (vague) directions from the plugin :/
care to point a few out @MattMcDonald?
user1385191
20:31
a: you definitely don't want to have script inside a script tag which has a defined source
where would I want it?
user1385191
b: your plugin script is below the script calling it (though this shouldn't kill it)
user1385191
c: you're using include_once
user1385191
d: missing tbody on the table
ok ignore the table, im getting rid of it right this second cause it isn't permanent anyways, just more for holding it together
20:32
@MattMcDonald What's wrong with include_once?
user1385191
easy to lose track, can bite you
yeah the include_once is for the header and the footer, just to keep things clean
user1385191
especially with nested templates
so for js and jquery you should put the script below the function calling it?
So, you mean require_once > include_once?
20:33
i thought require and include do the same thing?
require throws a fatal error if it couldn't get to the file in question. include just throws a notice methinks.
user1385191
no, include > include_once
user1385191
@Nathan you want to define what you're calling before it's called
well, where should the script be then?
what do you mean?
20:36
@MattMcDonald And if you want to include only once? :P
Make sure there are no duplicates?
user1385191
<script src="magic.js" type="text/javascript"></script>
<script type="text/javascript">
	Magic.init(params);
</script>
user1385191
@Zirak you're planting the idea of a singleton in my head, and it's scaring me
html is not a programming language. If there is a footer, it is perfectly legitimate to make absolutely sure it appears only once.
lol
so now its like this:
...<script type="text/javascript" src="jquery.js"></script>
    <script type="text/javascript" src="JMyCarousel.js"></script>
    <script type="text/javascript">
	$(function() {
     $(".JMyCarousel").jMyCarousel({
         visible: '100%',
        eltByElt: true
     	});
		});
</script>
</head>
<body style="margin:0 auto; background-color:#CCC;">
<div class="main_wrapper">
	<?php include_once "template_header.php"; ?>
        <div id="index_page_content">
    <div class="JMyCarousel">
	<ul>
	<?php echo $dynamicList; ?>
If you wanna call it singletons, then call it singletons. All elements with an id are singletons. It's fine to use an id.
20:40
@Zirak I tried starting a Trolling overflow site, staff personally shut the thing down in a few hours, we had 10 members.
Have you heard - IE9 gets 100/100 on Acid3 :)
Firefox 4 too
...
Check this out:

Old way:

var ev = document.createEvent("ProgressEvent")
ev.initProgressEvent("progress", false, false, true, 42, 100) // obsolete
document.dispatchEvent(ev)

New way:

var ev = new ProgressEvent("progress", {lengthComputable:true, loaded:42, total:100})
document.dispatchEvent(ev)
(DOM4)
am i so screwed that no one has any suggestions? :P
I can't wait for a new DOM. The old browser bugs and quirks started getting too boring
user1385191
20:47
...and it will be full-context production ready in 2016!
user1385191
the onus is on Microsoft right now to deprecate Windows XP
...f u, jQuery source. f u.
How can you find out how things are added to the jQuery prototype, if every single thing is added in a different way?
@Matt DOM4 in IE11 in 2014... trust me :)
@Zirak You mean added subsequently by plug-ins?
user1385191
20:52
certainly, a lot of progress will be made once the general populace shifts to windows 7 + IE 9/10
Added right there in the core. Took me quite some time to find out where $.fn.width and $.fn.height are
who ever changed the topic while i was getting helped can take a long walk off a short pier...
user1385191
IE 6 + 7 can be "dropped" in that scenario
user1385191
so CSS people get their beloved CSS3
Turns out, it's right towards the end. :P
20:53
@Zirak jQuery.prototype - just enumerate it....
I wanted to find it in the source: code.jquery.com/jquery-latest.js
@MattMcDonald yoru doing it wrong
IE6 + 7 can be dropped now
Full-screen > console screen
today. Here.
win8/IE10 hits. We drop IE8. end of
@Raynos save me :(
20:54
Ctrl + F ... then search for "height:"
@ŠimeVidas Ah, the nice days where that used to find you the result...
@Nathan do you have an actual question or should I just sit and listen to your compliants about your broken code
yes
/**
	pureJS - a jQuery extension that allows you to use normal javascript functions
		instead of jQuery functions.
**/
$.pureJS = function()
{
	$ = null;
	jQuery = null;
}
my question is
20:55
@Raynos Dude, I'm redirecting IE8 folks to getfirefox.com
0
Q: Opening a new tab with Firefox (middle click)- make it work with Javascript links?

Matt72I have this problem continuously. I read MSNBC news (and other pages). I click the middle mouse button to open links in a new tab, to read later. I go to the tabs later, at it was a javascript link. The tab title is something like "javascript:vPlayer(number)," and the page is blank. I can't e...

how much wood would a wood chuck chuck if a wood chuck could chuck wood?
And with that, goodnight everybody :-)
my jquery plugin is not displaying
any ideas on what could be wrong with my broken code
@ŠimeVidas on your personal website thats cool
but redirect them to chrome instead
user1385191
20:56
@ŠimeVidas that's nice, but you're alienating users who have "locked" implementations of windows
You cant do that with a mainstream public website though
@RyanKinal Oh, how's makePage going along? :P
I cant alienate windows XP users on IE
Not until IE10 gets realised
@MattMcDonald those locked in have tough shit
user1385191
there are many systems that have exe installation disabled for normal users
@Raynos Chrome is growing to big. I would like to preserve a balance between Firefox and Chrome
Although I personally use Chrome
user1385191
20:58
if you want a balance, start promoting opera + safari
my biggest regret is that one day i will be a programmer...
@Matt I doubt that Opera will ever grow... there can't be two popular alternative browsers...
@Matt People with "locked" PC's can always go home and view the web-site on their home computer...
user1385191
like Raynos said, it depends on the audience
opera is that one "artistic" browser , which is misunderstood by most of the public
though in eastern europe it is quite popular , especially in russia 30%+
Does anyone have a good site or program that they'd suggest to validate my jquery code? I have tried using firebug on firefox I can't always get it to work right. Usually, firebug only works for when I have a javascript variable that is set so that I can watch its value
21:06
@MattMcDonald meh. tough shit.
Get them to convince corporations to not suck
I'm all for alienating IE users
it forces corporations to deal with it
Is there anyway to rewrite the following code to remove the redundant $("#id")?

$("#id").html(parseInt($("#id").html()) + ((data == 'add') ? 1 : -1));
user1385191
A VARIABLE
oh no ... dom serialization
@Matt Yeah, that works; I just that there was a more jQuery-like way.
@moteutsch Read here why it's bad: stackoverflow.com/questions/7392930/…
user1385191
21:10
owasp has a DOM article arguing against DOMStrings as well
Is there a way to tell in the window.onunload event whether the window is actually closing?
@moteutsch What's a "jQuery-like way"? var id = $('#id').cache();?
user1385191
remember, text can be appended as a text node
$( '#id' ).text( function ( i, val ) {
    return parseInt( val, 10 ) + ( data === 'add' ? 1 : -1 );
});
user1385191
21:11
there is a difference between text and HTML
@Steven You mean the whole browser window or the just the tab?
OK, that's much better. Thanks for pointers.
@ŠimeVidas just the tab would be fine
@Steven You want to "tell" it to the unload event handler?
@ŠimeVidas I want to check in window.onunload whether the tab/window is closing or whether it's just navigating to a different webpage. I'd also like to be able to check the location of the new webpage if it's just navigating to a different webpage.
(I was using the definition of "tell": "to discover by observation, discern")
21:28
@Steven Note that there are more than just these two options. The others are (3) hitting the back/forward buttons, (4) manually entering a new URL in the address-bar, (5) reloading the web-page
@ŠimeVidas yeah, i think all of those would be covered under "check the location of the new webpage" - even if it's not technically a new webpage (in the case of reloading)
@Steven Aha you just want to isolate the case where the tab containing the web-page is closed...
@Steven That would make a fine StackOverflow question....
@ŠimeVidas kind of
Well go for it :)
@ŠimeVidas yeah, I guess I can write up a question. I don't think there's a way to do it.
21:34
@Steven Maybe if you had a "wingman" page in another tab which would keep track of the state of that page...
@ŠimeVidas yeah - i actually would be checking it from another page. And registering the onunload event from another page.
hey everyone
does anybody know how is autocomplete in comments done?
@Steven There you go. There are ways for two pages to communicate....
21:37
I can't find it in source code... I have looked into all javascripts, but without any luck
@genesis You bind the keypress event and check the input value.
@Šime I know, but please, look into SO's source and tell me WHERE it gets names it suggestst you
@genesis But I didn't know that comments had auto-complete ?!
@Šime for ~3 days now
0
A: jQuery .live() with a parent link

Joseph Silber$('.someButton .play, .someButton .stop').live(function(){ if ( $(this).hasClass('stop') ) { console.log('stop'); } else if ( $(this).hasClass('play') ) { console.log('play'); } });

@genesis Ah yes, I see....
21:39
Try "@tex"
@Šim and do you know, how is it done?
hey everyone
user1385191
it's a ul that should be z-indexed above the comment box
@genesis I guess I could write it, it can't be that complicated...
@Matt I'm not worrying about CSS
user1385191
you run it over a timer and send a GET request with the current message
21:41
@ŠimeVidas me either, but I'm interesting how SO does it. I cannot find it ANYWHERE
user1385191
the server checks the string against users in the chat, then returns those that match
@genesis Well, let me see...
@Šime thanks a lot
user1385191
looks like it sends onkeyup
@Matt I know
@Matt I'm not talking about chat now. about comments
user1385191
21:44
same concept, except it looks like it stores those who have commented on that answer/question block
@Matt I know ... so please, tell me where should I find proccessing of that autocomplete ;) I bet you won't find it
2
Q: Can I load an entire HTML document into a document fragment in Internet Explorer?

Andy EHere's something I've been having a little bit of difficulty with. I have a local client-side script that needs to allow a user to fetch a remote web page and search that resulting page for forms. In order to do this (without regex), I need to parse the document into a fully traversable DOM obj...

no luck so far
@ŠimeVidas good call - you got me on the right track.
@StevenOxley ??
@genesis Chrome Developer Tools has "Event Listener Breakpoints"....
21:52
@ŠimeVidas what you said about communicating between windows. I couldn't check the state of the window directly in onunload, but if i did a setTimeout and waited until the state of the window was updated, then i was able to check the window.closed property.
@Steven Yea, that's the general idea...
@genesis I think it's in stub.js
@ŠimeVidas exactly. but I do not know, where
It's not in stub.js. :)
@genesis Unfortunately, the code is minimized so my "even handler breakpoints" and "timer breakpoints" are not of much use...
because it shows current line 1? :p
@Šime where do you see these breakpoints? which tab?

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