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16:00
haha
I don't know either, and I'm waaaaay too lazy to download/install go etc
(I'm at work, don't have Go yet, dunno why)
It was supposed to show "You killed me! Try my !!die alias (!!kill), if I am interfering with another bot." when you put "!!die". *facepalm*
lol according to a pie chart I was just told to upload.. my company utilizes 104% of every dollar donated. 12% for maintaining funds, 92% donation. Now THAT'S monetary efficiency.
!!die
@Shea Registered; need 0 more to execute
You killed me! Try my !!die alias (!!kill), if I am interfering with another bot.
16:05
O.o
Doesn't die stop Caprica from running?
Shit I forgot about community commands. I'm going back to sleep.... Because I can.
user1596138
!!You're back!
@Jhawins That didn't make much sense. Use the !!/help command to learn more.
@rlemon tell me more about JS type system
as much as Cat rants and hates, he actually gave proper reasons this time
the argument that the language is bad because it is loosely typed is bogus. That is just a part of the language you dislike (also see ES6 if it is an issue for you)
you being the metaphorical *you
16:10
@rlemon it's not about "loose types". It's about type system that's FUBAR.
please note the difference and don't strawman that.
Please explain how you believe it is fucked up?
I can better defend my position if I understand yours fully.
@rlemon refer to the Wat video
link please
like I said I just jumped into the c++ chat
really? you haven't watched it?
I wasn't there for long before I commented.
I've seen a lot of videos. I'm sorry "Wat" isn't standing out for me
16:12
skip to JS (around 1:20)
anyone familiar with ejs?
user1596138
(console) So, document.html returns, obviously, the HTML portion of the document (duh I know). Great. document.body returns the body, still making sense. But document.html.body returns undefined. I understand why this happened, but it feels stupid.
-1
Q: Go: running a TCP server on two different ports at the same time?

vinnylinuxI'm trying to create a multi-protocol server using Go. One server is an HTTP server, listening on 80. Another, is a custom-made protocol (over TCP) running on port 8088. Is this possible with Go?

@BartekBanachewicz yea, those are all old arguments about some of the sillier things on JS but that doesn't mean the type system is outright broken
@rlemon it kinda does.
try doing those in Haskell
Also ==
16:17
and if you understand the associativity then it isn't as bad
@rlemon if you understand it it gets even worse
yes it is an extra layer of understanding, but if you ask me that is where more of the confusion comes in
idk, I seem to do ok with it.
@rlemon I understand why such things happen. And again, it makes it worse
@rlemon and this is relevant because? People do OK in PHP (Well, they say so), so what?
ofc at the beginning there were lots of head bangs. but honestly, I have yet to be introduced to a language that didn't make me think "wait, what?!" at least once
16:19
it's about head bangs / minute.
C++ lounge is really a bunch of assholes
I just see all of this as the "It wasn't what I expected it to be so it is bad" argument.
sure there are things that could be improved, but outright the entire system is not FUBAR
@rlemon That actually kinda makes sense, because a good language should be predictable.
@FlorianMargaine what's happening over there?
@rlemon there aren't many type systems, save from C maybe, that are more broken.
maybe you just have no reference to what a good type system looks like?
16:22
why does everyone instantly think that because someone writes JS they don't know what other languages are like
arrogance?
ignorance?
user1596138
Whitespace vs. Brainfuck
arrogance caused by ignorance?
@BartekBanachewicz genuinely interested: why is C type system broken?
Both I would assume.
I'm pretty sure a large percentage of programmers are arrogant, regardless of language.
16:23
@rlemon Your arguments made me believe that that is indeed the case.
@FlorianMargaine everything can be used as an int.
Int can be used as anything as long as it's 0
@BartekBanachewicz uh?
so because it can, it's broken?
then, C++ type system is broken too
@FlorianMargaine prolly. Less broken than in C, though.
My arguments that you didn't expect the type system in JS to be like it is made you think I don't write in other language nor have I ever?
@FlorianMargaine Also no boolean type.
that seems like a pretty big stretch
16:24
@BartekBanachewicz C++ can do just the same as C. So it's just as broken.
@BartekBanachewicz stdbool since C99
@FlorianMargaine Excuse me?
any ideas if base64 representation of SHA1 has is = SHA1 hash value then base 64 encoded or something else.
1 min ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
@FlorianMargaine everything can be used as an int.
same in C++ ^
@FlorianMargaine no.
note the can
16:24
stop FUDing
C is not C++
Well this is all over my head.
C++ is backwards compatible with C, if you can do something in C, you can do it in C++
@rlemon "if the type system isn't predictable doesn't mean it's bad" was one of the reasons.
"broken" seems like a strong word for any major language...
@FlorianMargaine except not.
16:25
oh?
is there something in C that you can't do in C++?
so please stop pulling things out of your ass for a moment and read some actual evidence sometimes.
@FlorianMargaine Of course there is.
ohh really?
God dammit people.
because all I hear is you insulting me telling me I dont' know what a type system is
that doesn't boast for a good debate
@rlemon I never said that.
16:26
I've always read Bjarne tell how important for him it was to keep backward compatibility with C, so I dunno now...
@FlorianMargaine he also said how sometimes he had to break it because C just sucks so much at places.
C !== C++
RAWR!
1 min ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
so please stop pulling things out of your ass for a moment and read some actual evidence sometimes.
ah, that's interesting, didn't know that. Mind telling me what he broke?
then please tell me what this was meant to convey
16:27
like, evidence?
@FlorianMargaine Not true. Ever since the first revision, C++ has been a non-strict superset.
24 secs ago, by Florian Margaine
ah, that's interesting, didn't know that. Mind telling me what he broke?
@FlorianMargaine you want actual standard paragraphs or what?
Simple things like int* x = malloc(sizeof(*x)); don't compile in C++.
@FlorianMargaine some implicit conversions, for one.
16:28
There are several other differences, but that's the textbook example.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I see, thanks
I'm just an observer, don't mind me. Does any other of you want some popcorns?
why isn't it possible in C++?
What's the asterisk after int mean?
@Jefffrey I would love some. light butter please
I don't like a greasy keyboard
user1596138
16:28
Holy shit. There are soooo many fucked up conversations in 1on1 rooms here. And everything is indexed. Some of you guys are pretty messed up hahaha.
@Jefffrey it's fun watching people get aggro over languages.
@FlorianMargaine Bjarne thought it was worth breaking the compatibility in favour of more type safety.
@rlemon Please tell me how predictability isn't important in a good language and a type system.
2 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
@FlorianMargaine he also said how sometimes he had to break it because C just sucks so much at places.
16:29
@RUJordan extremely fun
@RUJordan makes it a pointer t an int.
@R.MartinhoFernandes k
wish this oneboxed facebook posts :-( you guys would have had a laugh
user1596138
Like, to the point that I don't feel bad for being the way I am here. I actually feel like, maybe I actually have a sack, because I don't run off and make 1on1 rooms to bitch about other people all the time. Didn't find anything about me.
Also, the last time I spoke in here I was banned from the chat for 30 minutes or so, so...
16:30
@BartekBanachewicz I wouldn't make the argument that a predicable type system wouldn't be nice. but the fact that it isn't predictable for you first doesn't make it horribly broken
@Jefffrey don't worry, everybody's been banned at least once...
it just makes it a pain in the ass
are we on C compared to C++ ?
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'll have to look that up, I don't know what a pointer is either lol
or something
16:30
@FlorianMargaine not me yet :D
like I have said there are things that could be improved, but the system isn't horribly broken
@rlemon there are other things that are broken, like implicit coercions
@RUJordan Yeah, I suspected. You probably don't want to go too far on that.
Why are we discussing C/C++ in a Javascript room?
user1596138
It happens.
16:30
llike I said, there are things that could be improved upon. Every language has them
@rlemon and I am saying that, due to the amount of stupidity in it, it is horribly broken
@vogomatix cause we are the best community
@rlemon sure. But some languages get things more right than the others.
@vogomatix because florian here went to the C++ room talking about lisp and javascript :)
sure, and some people disagree on what is 'right' in a language
16:31
yeah, and then again most of the people agree on the fact that implicit conversions are usually bad
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah not really interested actually, I'm more of a PHP/JavaScript guy. -shrug- No harm no foul though.
@Jefffrey actually I commented on the hatred of JS from CatPlusPlus in here after lurking in there post that mystery flag.
and I am not even started on ==
Is that the room where I and florian speak about Go ? I don't recognize it...
@rlemon obviously ColdFusion10 is the one language to rule them all.
16:32
Javascript is not "right" it just warps your mind until you believe that wrong is right
@rlemon In some languages, right == ~left, in others right == -left, in others right == !left, in others right === not left.
@RUJordan good joke.
@BartekBanachewicz no one in this room will defend ==
2
@BartekBanachewicz I also don't understand something. Don't C compilers warn you about implicit conversions?
so you don't really even have to comment on it
16:32
@rlemon hint: it's a part of the type system
@dystroy hahaha
@BartekBanachewicz thanks, I spent all night writing it down. :D
@FlorianMargaine sometimes they do, usually they don't, but they should hard error, really.
@BartekBanachewicz isn't a warning an error anyway?
@FlorianMargaine by definition it's not.
16:33
@FlorianMargaine no?
== isn't important in practice. It should have been what does === and there should have been another operator for what does == but only noobs will have real problems with it.
which still makes it a part of JS type system.
which still makes JS type system terrible.
PHP's === is the best actually
room topic changed to JavaScript: Caution: Language wars! enter at own risk. [consistency-of-suckiness] [ecmascript] [horse-grooming] [java-sucks]
You can say that "A subset of JS type system is less terrible", but the whole JS system is still terrible.
16:34
sure I can
A subset of JS type system is less terrible
stick to it
a subset of <any language> is less terrible
@FlorianMargaine that's why it's a meaningless statement
every language has bad parts...
Any one have experience in using google maps api for web. I have no code issues or problems just wondering if when you create a search function you can control the final zoom level?
yes, even Lisp.
16:35
@FlorianMargaine and some have more bad parts than the others.
1 hour ago, by Kenjin
javascript is kinda bitchy today
'Java' > 'JavaScript' > 'Coffeescript'
word
I mean sure, JS has good parts
Looks like the sequence of coffee making
just type system is not one of them
16:35
@BartekBanachewicz This discussion is more and more childish...
@FlorianMargaine Would be too noisy.
@BartekBanachewicz a whole book of em actually. ;)
@rlemon I'll defend it. It's useful when checking against both undefined and null at the same time :P
@dystroy thanks ._.
16:36
Warnings are only interesting if they're not noisy.
@BartekBanachewicz and again, listen to the actual arguments we're making. The type system isn't great, and parts of it are actually quite bad. But I don't think the entire system is actually broken beyond repair.
@RUJordan coffee > more coffee > programming > cofee > programming
@IvoWetzel :P
@rlemon the amount of bad things in the type system makes it inherently bad, because you can't easily avoid them
@twiz maybe coffeescript then ?
16:37
lulz
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't like warnings. Either it's correct or not. When it's not correct, it shouldn't "compile". Warnings tend to pile up.
user1596138
@BartekBanachewicz Pretty much.
You can if you know the language...
@BartekBanachewicz I have both books and haven't cracked either - LOL
@rlemon that's like saying you can avoid buffer overflows in assembly
you can avoid buffer overflows in assembly if you know it, so what?
16:37
@BartekBanachewicz lol
owning both of those books. "The Definitive Guide" has a lot of bloat with silly examples and for some reason jQuery specific things :/
@dystroy thanks, you're actually making sense. Hence my message earlier, but it seems like it was either not understood (really?) or ignored (or pedantic-ed).
@rlemon it still makes it terribly easy to make buffer overflows
haha wait.... jQuery is in it?
16:38
@BartekBanachewicz because saying that you can't avoid it is wrong
user1596138
I've been working as a developer for 1.5 years now. I feel like I know PHP pretty well honestly, it isn't that hard to grasp, and new things are simple. JS on the other hand, I still feel like I know almost nothing about it. I learn something new almost every single day.
@Jhawins thats been same for almost 3 years with me now
@dystroy Yeah, that's what I mean by noisy warnings. I usually enable a large set of warnings I don't consider noisy, and set them as errors.
PHP has the same problem as JS. 90% of it are broken, if you know the other 10% you can do awesome stuff.
@rlemon but it's much harder due to the terrible language support.
16:38
No javascript book should contain jQuery - unless the title contains the word jQuery
and the more code i write the cleaner and better my code becomes, its one of those which require time i guess
@IvoWetzel both are heavily bloated
I wrote a lot of JS in the late 90's early 2000's and then started back again three years ago.
@jbolanos Shouldn't that be a jQuery book instead?
@IvoWetzel the problem with PHP is that you're forced to use the bad parts...
16:39
I mean the javascript as we see in the browser , so much bloatware
user1596138
@AbhishekHingnikar Right. I wanted to look for a job using mostly JS, but since there is such an immense amount of shit to learn I have absolutely no idea where I stand in knowledge. Maybe I'm a 3, maybe I'm a 4, I have no idea because it surprises me the very next day and makes me feel like an idiot.
@AbhishekHingnikar What is bloated in case of JS? The language is pretty small imo
Don't confuse JS with DOM etc.
Are we comparing client to server sided languages in a good and bad ultimatum..?
@IvoWetzel the window object in a browser
@rlemon so yeah, sure, you can avoid those errors in assembly and in high level language, but assembly is just worse on that. Same goes with JS and its type system. And its ability to fuck things up is just outstanding.
16:40
yeah i know what i am saying
That is why it's FUBAR.
I have a textarea with a onBlur event. When I click a button that refreshes the page the onBlur event is not called. Is there anyway I can make sure the this event is called with out applying anything to the button?
wtf... Why is there stuff about java in the Definitive Guide?
javascript itself is very light :-> , thats why node.js is so awesome
and thats why ecmascript6 will be so awesome
@AbhishekHingnikar you haven't seen Lua, have you?
user1596138
16:40
@Will You're using a stupid browser aren't you?
@BartekBanachewicz Can it run in a browser, no
@Jhawins Im using chrome
user1596138
Safari does that BS to me. Chrome actually works.
your move bartek
16:41
@AbhishekHingnikar you can compile it to JS or run the VM in JS, pretty much, runs rather well
@BartekBanachewicz why not learn javascript ?
user1596138
Weird. I had that issue the other day in Safari, but not in Chrome.
@FlorianMargaine Some diagnostics inevitably require a human to make a decision about that. But yes, most things considered "warnings", at least by C++ compilers, should really be errors.
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah - but I'm seeing a lot more javascript books hitting the market that don't mention that they are based on jQuery, underscore, or some other library. Hard to find pure JS books these days.
@AbhishekHingnikar I love how you changed subject.
16:41
@BartekBanachewicz I don't see much weight in that argument. I can do incredibly stupid things in almost any language easily. that makes me FUBAR not the language.
@Jhawins "Eich level" is not really that high, but it's pretty good already.
lua and JS ahve a lot in common
we know how performant vm's are
@BartekBanachewicz yeah i am a master of that :P
@Jhawins What did you do to fix your issue
@rlemon Try doing incredibly stupid things in Haskell
16:41
@R.MartinhoFernandes thank you :)
lua? isn't that what 2nd Life uses?
If you're profound in JS learning lua should take you less than a day
@BartekBanachewicz let me learn Haskell and i'll get back to you
@BartekBanachewicz "Try doing things in Haskell" FTFY
@jbolanos And many many other games like for example WoW
16:42
@AbhishekHingnikar Firefox with Asm.js is much much faster than normal JS
but be warned, Python and Lisp are on the list before Haskell now
@IvoWetzel I think you are asking for trouble :>
@rlemon Also, I didn't mean to do it on purpose.
@Jefffrey They both have closures, first class functions and prototypical inheritance :P
16:42
Because if that's what you meant, well...
well this is incredibly frustrating, it keeps saying a variable is undefined when I make an EJS object, but if I console.log it one line earlier, it's clearly there
user1596138
@Will I wasn't doing anything important so I didn't worry about it. It was something local only.
@BartekBanachewicz I know nothing about Haskell. so if you ask me to write you code right now you will get nothing
@BartekBanachewicz Chrome without asm.js is almost the same
@IvoWetzel yeah - knew about wow - never tried to make an addon for that. Have tried to make second life crap to sell but gave up on it
16:43
@rlemon What I meant was "try writing haskell and take note of how many stupid type errors you'd get compared to JS"
@AbhishekHingnikar Except it's about 5 times slower, yes.
@Jhawins :( damn it.
user1596138
@Will I'm the only one who'll be messing with it and I always use Chrome so I said screw it.
@BartekBanachewicz but I dont' get type errors in js ;)
@BartekBanachewicz Link ?
@IvoWetzel well, I don't know shit about both languages, so I'll have to trust you on that
16:43
@Jhawins Fair enough. I would do the same
@BartekBanachewicz the difference between haskell and JS, also: 5 minutes to get something done in JS, 1 hour to get something done in haskell. And you know it's true, don't deny it.
I tested that mozilla demo of asm.js and emscripten epic citadel, performed better on chrome then ffox
alright :P
FlorianMargaine you are all up on ES Next right?
16:44
@FlorianMargaine it's not true.
@rlemon uh... kinda?
@BartekBanachewicz oh come on.
@rlemon because you're way more experienced in JS. If you took someone with equal experience in both, still holds.
this discussion is pointless then
they completely changed the type system correct?
@FlorianMargaine ahaha I love your argument then
16:45
@rlemon not really
@rlemon what?
@BartekBanachewicz find me someone equally experienced in both and lets test it
@BartekBanachewicz seriously, every single fucking body knows that dynamic typing gets shit done faster than statically typing
because this is a lot of baseless claims.
user1596138
@FlorianMargaine What does this line even mean? Seems like he tried to overcomplicate the grammar on purpose. "Knows several ways to cast a value, and ways to implicitly force coercion"
16:46
@FlorianMargaine actually that's not true, because writing code is just a small part of it.
user1596138
What is this "coercion" word
Bleh, afk. This is too confusing for me
@FlorianMargaine Compare maintaining and fixing time too and get back to me then.
brb smoke (this means actually ping me so I can get it @all)
@Jhawins he didn't really overcomplicate
16:46
@RUJordan me too man.
@BartekBanachewicz did I say anything about maintaining? I said get shit done
I'm out of this discussion
@FlorianMargaine IME most people that "know" that conflate static typing with manifest typing.
@BartekBanachewicz seriously don't hate anything without trying
user1596138
@FlorianMargaine Sarcasm :P. I just don't know that word. Was poking fun at myself.
actually it is noon. so i'll brb in like 45 minutes (same things apply)
16:47
@FlorianMargaine that might explain a lot. If you write shit, not programs, then I don't see how I can argue further.
i had a girlfriend she never tried sex and hated it (was more insecure). then she did try it and became a whore :-(
moral of the story : atleast try it first !
@BartekBanachewicz how childish...
@AbhishekHingnikar have you tried eating shit?
and before I go. Does anyone else feel like half of @BartekBanachewicz comments are very condescending in nature?
@BartekBanachewicz yeah tried it
but it smelled wrong.
16:48
@FlorianMargaine no, because it was you who said you don't care about fixing bugs and maintaining.
so didnt :P
@rlemon whistles
@AbhishekHingnikar go figure.
besides people did try eating shit
@BartekBanachewicz where did I say this?
16:48
and now i'm off for a few minutes to get some soup
how I love soup
2 mins ago, by Florian Margaine
@BartekBanachewicz did I say anything about maintaining? I said get shit done
2 minutes ago.
Have you forgotten already?
user1596138
@FlorianMargaine I guess I'm a 2. I'm definitely not comfortable with regexpressions. I always ping @Shmiddty or @Zirak with my regex problems :P
@Jhawins Zirak is afk: hurricane
how does this sentence say that I don't care about maintaining?
maintaining is not in the scope of the discussion we are having, is what I'm saying.
user1596138
Wait, is Zirak over in that typhoon mess or whatever was going on??
16:49
imho javascript is decently mantainable
@Jhawins and now you know what you don't know :P
@AbhishekHingnikar you didn't get anything from the sentence I wrote, did you?
@FlorianMargaine how is it not, if it's the time you spend on the code and is directly related to the language you use?
@BartekBanachewicz you are being an obvious troll... and expect me not to be one, I refuse!
16:50
1 message moved to Trash can
Besides GIVE JAVASCRIPT A TRY its NOT SHIT ! there is a reason why its more used :P
@AbhishekHingnikar just because I used words indirectly it means I'm a troll?
these days
@BartekBanachewicz NO cause you are just invalidating proper points to stay in an argument
because you are arguing to argue
@mikedidthis Did you click it or something ?
> A metaphor is a figure of speech that describes a subject by asserting that it is, on some point of comparison, the same as another otherwise unrelated object.
@AbhishekHingnikar lol
16:51
@AbhishekHingnikar yes and it lacks the NSFW tag. Also in light of the events yesterday, I removed it
> I've only been using w3schools because that's what the Professor has been teaching from
3
m(
user1596138
@FlorianMargaine I know like half of number 4. All but regexp in number 3. I think that's where most of this room would fail though. That's getting bookmarked for sure. Great way to lay out what'snext to learn! Thanks
@mikedidthis lol kk
user1596138
Needs a new school.
@R.MartinhoFernandes i mean if javascript was comparable to shit
16:52
oh god
w'ed have a bunch of hippies eating shit daily !
A metaphor is a figure of speech that describes a subject by asserting that it is, on some point of comparison, the same as another otherwise unrelated object. Metaphor is a type of analogy and is closely related to other rhetorical figures of speech that achieve their effects via association, comparison or resemblance including allegory, hyperbole, and simile. In simpler terms, a metaphor compares two objects or things without using the words "like" or "as". One of the most prominent examples of a metaphor in English literature is the All the world's a stage monologue from As You Lik...
@AbhishekHingnikar It's time to stop posting
shall I spell it for you or what
@copy aiight :-(
16:52
Aaaaaaan bartek wins. Thanks for joining us in this exciting match. In an hour there's going to be the replays of the highlights of this honorable fight. Stay tuned.
@Jhawins I think regulars of this room are around 4-5 mostly
Where is meta-one, two and three?
user1596138
@AbhishekHingnikar you seriously just posted 2 girls 1 cup. What the fuck.
@Jhawins it wasnt the real one iirc
but i didn't saw it
@AbhishekHingnikar urm...
yes it was
user1596138
16:53
@AbhishekHingnikar Guess again.
@Jhawins no in the real one both girls were white !
this had a brazillian ... ah i posted a remake
I'm getting out of here.
user1596138
@AbhishekHingnikar I don't care. They're eating shit. That shouldn't even be in the trash can.
yeah i will be banned :-( soon
but well i d c !
ps i should off tagged NSFW :-\
Can we just move on and try and act adult? Just a little?
16:55
@Jhawins Hurry back, ok?
user1596138
!!afk
@Jhawins It's been 20 years. You can't just waltz back into my life like this.
user1596138
Nevermind, that wasn't a good idea.
If I order pizza, who else will have some?
@FlorianMargaine Anyway, it's not anywhere close to true. You can say JS has probably a richer set of libraries and code available to reuse, and I'd agree on that. But beyond that, no, this is not true. Haskell doesn't inherently require any significant amount of boilerplate nor exceedingly verbose code like, say, Java.
user1596138
16:55
@jbolanos If you ship it to Indiana.
@Jhawins It'll be cold :)
@R.MartinhoFernandes I just meant that in a general way, it's been proven that dynamic typing makes it faster to write POC
@FlorianMargaine Woah what
@FlorianMargaine source ?
looking for this...
meh, let's just say "empirical evidence" since I can't find the link back...
var CommaBomb = {
 defaults: ""
 , options: ""
 , settings: ""
 , methods: {
    getOptions: function () {
    }
    , setOptions: function () {
    }
    , getSettings: function () {
    }
    , setSettings: function () {
    }
 }
};
my eyes :-(
@FlorianMargaine lol
does anyone have an opinion on going semi-colon-less?
@jbolanos it's like spaces vs tabs
16:58
@jbolanos bad idea but yeah like spaces vs tabs
@jbolanos don't.
user1596138
@FlorianMargaine Wouldn't doubt it. Aside from the regexp part. I honestly think a lot of regulars would fail at that without Google.
@jbolanos go with it.
if you are going semi-colon-less in javascript ... good luck with minification :-)
I'm starting to see fancy smancy developers doing it and I'm all against the idea. Getting tedious fixing their code.
16:59
@jbolanos it will make you learn about js. And you may like it better
@jbolanos I approve. I also approve of trying to write all your code with just your left hand and using the bathroom in public places.
@Jhawins at regex?

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