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6:00 PM
why everyone here treating me as a joker?
 
not suck.. Just share the streaming live...
You can remove the tab's streaming using ctrl+W or stupid click
 
@Sajeetharan The real joker would've asked why Jan Dvorak was being so serious
 
@Zirak thats being sarcastic
 
@Sajeetharan American here, what do you need?
2
Need some freedom?
 
6:01 PM
@Jhawins That's really cool
 
we have already got freedom
 
Loktar can arrange a drop-ship of red-white an' blue FREEDUUUUM along with some very fine warheads and nuclear ships
 
A country willing to trade a little freedom for a little security doesn't deserve the latter and will fail to obtain the former.
 
^ just give me the long lat and I can send one of our 3 freedom packages currently on special.
 
user1596138
@Shmiddty It was awesome! There was a desk type setup attached to the screen so you could just pick it up and take it wherever you needed to go
 
6:03 PM
!!s/Loktar.+/Thanks Zirak\!/
 
@Shmiddty Most welcome
 
@JanDvorak A smart man said that
 
lel wat
 
user1596138
I tried quite a bit to find it but I can't. Ovation is where the crazy shit used to be I think all the stores are closed now
 
someone help me, will offer you 50 bounty
 
6:03 PM
@Shmiddty erm, whoops
 
@Loktar 127.0w, 0.1n. Can I ask for the fat man?
 
What else would you expect from America! :P
 
This feels... weird
 
@Loktar hamburgers
 
6:04 PM
@FlorianMargaine Yikes
 
i don't understand anything here
8
 
user1596138
@Loktar did you hint a job to me yesterday???
 
m59
What's this url about?
Url.parse('/path?user[name][first]=tj&user[name][last]=holowaychuk', true);
 
Interresting. I'm awaiting the commit message for the closing.
Fixed : author was dead
 
@m59 url-encoding for objects
 
m59
6:06 PM
why [ ] ? user%5Bname%5D%5Bfirst%5D ick
 
A_l
in epressjs expressjs.com/api.html. when I use res.cookies() this is add cookies or replace the cookies?
 
@m59 php will transform this in $_GET as an array with a named key
 
API design 101: If someone has to ask this kind of question, your API sucks. Thanks @A_l, I'll use that example.
 
m59
Ah.. still I just couldn't use it. That url is way too ugly.
 
@A_l It seems that it adds them
 
6:08 PM
@Jhawins yea
sorry misping
I mean we are looking for someone, however not sure youd love the current position
its for a wordpress dev 20% and ui dev 80%
 
user1596138
Thanks anyway :)
 
I can ask my boss though because they want to hire a UI team
not sure exactly what pay is but I want to say $30 an hour or more
 
m59
?user[name][first]=yourName is fine, but what it turns into is UCKKK
 
A_l
@Zirak same question about res.set()
 
user1596138
Eh I feel like it's important that my next job be in what I call the "right" direction, I don't particularly want to get into UI at this time.
 
6:09 PM
would be weird working together I couldnt treat you like a faceless internet person lol
 
user1596138
lol right I'd have to be nice
 
@Jhawins ah, yeah this would be front end primarily
haha same here :P
 
user1596138
People would always tell you to go smack me
 
LOL
 
@m59 who cares. Spaces turn into %20, it's ugly too, but you only care about the URL decoded version
 
m59
6:11 PM
I mean, why not user-first-name=yourName ?
 
user1596138
^ On the subject of html entities... I found "&éacute;" in code the other day
 
m59
@Jhawins your code is hitting on you, bro
 
@m59 because then you can't do user.firstName user["firstName"] in PHP.
 
@m59 because you get a nicely done array instead of a long-ass key...
 
@A_l Seems to be the same. Test it.
 
m59
6:12 PM
who cares about php :)
 
user1596138
More like someone tried to do "é" and used the entity it signifies within it "&éacute" hahaha
 
other languages do the same
 
hi can i ask a question
will anyone respond?
 
!!welcome saj
 
m59
Nope.
 
6:12 PM
@saj Welcome to the JavaScript chat! Please review the room pseudo-rules. Please don't ask if you can ask or if anyone's around; just ask your question, and if anyone's free and interested they'll help.
 
user1596138
&éacute; lol
 
the more you ask to ask, the less likely we will respond to you
 
user2620028
I would say no but @m59 responded to you so.... yes.
 
m59
lol
But I'm back to the same question, why do languages use an ugly syntax rather than a nice one?
 
0
Q: How to enable resize on JsPlumb widget?

SajeetharanAm building a list of widgets with JSPlumb and AngularJS, i need to enable resize using the handler on each widget. There is an example already on it, i have implemented , but resize does not happen. here is my code, HTML: <div ng-controller="CustomWidgetCtrl" plumb-item class="item" resizeable>

^ thats @Sajeetharan question.
 
6:13 PM
@m59 it's not that ugly
 
Thanks
 
m59
?user%5Bname%5D%5Buser%5D=yourName :O=
 
use Chrome
 
m59
I am
 
Chrome can render the square brackets just fine
 
m59
6:15 PM
sure isn't :/
 
LOL
 
user1596138
@SterlingArcher lol I don't Drake
 
user1596138
Is that what his songs are about?
 
Yeah he's made fun of for being so sensitive
 
user1596138
6:20 PM
Hahaha oh ok. Yeah I'm not big on lyrics
 
m59
does anyone else think express sucks?
 
user1596138
@Loktar if you guys have any positions come up with at least some backend work I'd consider them more. It would be quite the social experiment if we worked together lol. No I'm actually really respectful IRL :P
 
user1596138
I bet if your wife used me as a model she would sell tons of houses
 
tons of houses? How much does a single house weigh?
 
user1596138
Many tons. So I'm probably right
 
6:25 PM
What's wrong with express? a simple middleware model and a pcakge of commonly needed ones.
 
@m59 my experiences with express so far have only been good
 
m59
I think everything sucks, I guess :)
I've been doing some studying, and I see it a lot differently than I used to.
 
Something you don't like about it specifically?
 
m59
It's a big statey mc state hidden state fail
 
@m59 I do
Haven't found anything better
It's all crap
 
m59
6:27 PM
I'm presently convinced that all state should be utterly exposed, and any functions that need it should explicitly accept it as a parameter.
 
user1596138
@SterlingArcher gfycat.com/ShimmeringElaborateAlaskanmalamute // dog has oh shit moment
 
m59
An example that was given in a talk was about an OOP address book
addressBook.add(address) // hidden state
 
m59
addAddress(addressBook, address) // yay
 
I don't follow.
 
m59
6:28 PM
Functions are idempotent and such
 
What's that got to do with express?
 
m59
Oh, LOL, how did that become "price of eggs" ?
 
@Jhawins yeah Ill let you know for sure
 
it's an expression.
 
we do backend here (I dont) but its .net
all c#
 
m59
6:29 PM
Because express is a big object-y statey fail. (and so are most things) (assuming this philosophy is correct)
 
user1596138
Ooh yeah eh. Doesn't sound fun
 
yeah I'm not a fan of .net, mostly VS in particular. Hate being forced to use it
 
But that code exmple you posted has nothign to do with express
 
m59
in the case of express, all of this app.use is just consuming state into who knows where
 
user1596138
I wanna be the "do everything" type of guy but sometimes I'd rather be the "Do everything but PHP .net and VB" type of guy
 
6:31 PM
app.use is to add in middlewere. They do things that you'd do in a .net httprequesthandler or the like.
 
@Jhawins hah
 
user1596138
What do you do? I guess I've never thought of just how front-end bias our room likely is.
 
you wire your funcitons however you like, then just call express to map urls to actions. Express code shoudl be limited to a handful of files.
 
m59
A practical example is that the route state could be extracted
 
just front end.. everything from styling pages, to architecting and developing anything on the front end
once its beyond markup/css/js I dont touch it
 
m59
6:33 PM
Rather than pass around app, I should be able to pass around the state directly, and let things interact with it however they want
 
@MarceloBarbosa Welcome to the JavaScript chat! Please review the room pseudo-rules. Please don't ask if you can ask or if anyone's around; just ask your question, and if anyone's free and interested they'll help.
 
user1596138
Yeah I can manage front-end but I absolutely hate styling/designing pages it just doesn't come to me. I like to do the stuff that does work but if I'm working on making it look nice? Forget it unless someone draws me a picture to recreate
 
well I dont do any design
I get the designs and turn them into code, or rework badly implemented designs on the code side of things
 
@Jhawins just buy a stylesheet form wrapbootstrap for $10 and move one
 
6:34 PM
@CapricaSix is a robot?
 
m59
var addPost = require('express/routes/add/post');
module.exports = function(routes) {
  addPost(routes, '/foo/bar', function() {
}
that makes more sense to me ^
 
user1596138
@Loktar What did you work on today?
 
@m59 You can make your code however you want, then just add a thin wrapper that maps it to express setup in a separate file. I highly suggest doign that so you can throw away express and more to somethign else later when something strikes your fancy
 
I have these pdf's with the current design for our web application, with how much padding each element needs, colors, ect. and I have been doing those changes in the css markup
so like the design is done an implemented, but people did it terribly..
like elements that needed 15px padding, have 8 for example
so I have to go through change them, measure them and move on
 
ugh.
 
6:36 PM
but.. this application sucks, it doesnt use a grid system
everything needs to be pixel perfect, or theyd like it to be (they as in the designers)
they come from a print background though
 
sorry about your luck
 
also working on a proof of concept for OAuth and a client side app
 
Well, I'm done with the internet for a while. cocaine
 
my next project is building an application from the ground up using angular should be fun
@Luggage haha yeah its annoying
but the worst part is actually fixing other peoples mistakes, the designs themselves are easy
I posted that yesterday but thats an example of what I'm working with.
 
is that a plgin for VS?
 
6:38 PM
yeah
 
also TY, Microsoft, for the dark theme.
 
the left side is what a developer did to implement the designs :/
 
m59
@Luggage so, consider if I want to pass an extended app.get to a module. I have to fight with the object reference - I can't do app.get = function() { //etc because it will affect the entire application. That's bad already. So, I have to create a new object and all that junk and set the context correctly. It sucks to reason about. It's not that hard, but why make things complicated at all?
 
and the right side are my changes so far. Its just tedius as hell really
 
you don't 'pass an app.get' anywhere. That's just you telling wexpress "when you see this url, fire this function".
 
user1596138
6:39 PM
@Loktar interesting. Yeah ig that's not so bad that's the kind of shit I could do and I wouldn't be unhappy about it
 
yeah its cake honestly
 
user1596138
Backend is just so much more funz
 
and I get paid well to do it so meh lol
 
m59
@Luggage I don't think you followed my example
 
I don't.
 
m59
6:40 PM
// add routes
module.exports = function(app) {
  app.get('stuff' //etc
}
 
@Loktar what diff plugin is that?
 
thats just TFS
we have since switched to git (in the last 4 weeks actually) which is awesome
 
ohh, tfs. no deal. :)
 
screw tfs honestly lol
one of our newer backend devs took it upon himself to do it and get everyone on board
was really awesome
oh and we get like $200 a month in azure credit due to our msdn licensing here (per developer), thats actually a nice perk
putting it to use right now lol
 
// stuff.js
oops
gimme a minute to type up a gist with some psuedocode
 
user1596138
dear god dude
 
cc @Loktar
 
Dude I know
 
@rlemon lol wtf
 
filthy hobbittes ruined it
 
6:50 PM
oh man! hahahah @rlemon I need to get an email for you one sec
its hilarious
 
@Loktar did @SterlingArcher send you another dicpic?
 
lol
 
Ok ok ok ok. One more and I'm done I swear. I'm on lunch break xD classic
 
@m59 what 'context'? logged in user, etc?
 
user1596138
6:52 PM
@SterlingArcher also from comments i.imgur.com/frec74M.gif // it's a bit nsfw
 
m59
whatever.bind(app) @Luggage
 
@SterlingArcher once you see the video you are angered that the ruined it with a gif
 
@rlemon ok email one
> Hey Jason,

Can't help but notice that our ads are no longer appearing on zombiesgames.net. Is this a mistake? Since we paid for a year upfront back in August 2012 I assumed you'd keep them running until the start of August 2013. How long have you had the ads taken off?

Thanks,
 
THERES A VIDEO?!
 
user1596138
I really want source on that
 
6:53 PM
lol they run adblocker don't they
 
email #2
 
that is pretty funny @Loktar
 
> Hey,

Really sorry about that Jason. I looked at the site in chrome and I only just realized had AdBlock enabled... doh! Disabled it and now seeing the ads again. Didn't mean to scare you :-)
 
@Jhawins mother of god wtf is that
 
user1596138
@SterlingArcher Dude idk find the sauce
 
6:53 PM
haha yeah @rlemon I was like wtf?
 
A Nightmare on Penis Street?!
 
like.. they pay for ads.. yet use adblock
 
@Jhawins a bit?
 
whatever.bind(app)? you aren't trying to attach method into epxress routers are you?
 
user1596138
@Loktar Hahahahahaha
 
user1596138
6:54 PM
I've checked checked and rechecked to make sure adblock isn't effective on our site..
 
m59
@Luggage haha, I think we've got a long way to go here :)
 
yeah they wanted me to change the wording on their ads to make adblock not block them
 
You can block adblock...
 
@FlorianMargaine wat? how?
 
user1596138
I don't want to block adblock users.
 
user1596138
6:54 PM
You can block the user sure. That's just shitty tho lol
 
Nah, kidding. But you can display a message to adblock users
 
so my point is that you structure all your code however m59 wants. then just attached it to express so it can respond to requests. I've never been forced to do anythign I don't wany by express.
 
Well technically you can block the users too
 
@FlorianMargaine could that message be... an ad?
 
But.. no.. I am not even sur eI understand your complaint, yet.
 
user1596138
6:55 PM
You can also block users who have the noscript extension installed on FF
 
@Loktar I think adblock would catch it
 
m59
@Luggage most people don't. Dunno...
 
> we notice you are using adblock so we served this ad for you
lol
@FlorianMargaine haha damn
 
user1596138
I would rather block them than adblock users. Seriously you think you're safe because no JS?
 
if (adblock.enabled) { container.textContent = "You're a dick." }
 
6:56 PM
But anyway I've seen some messages yeah
 
user1596138
Hahaha
 
@Jhawins well, you're safer than with js enabled
 
user1596138
stackoverflow.com/a/22414559/1596138 // still probably my most clever answer
 
m59
var foo = (function() {
  var whatever = 1;
  return function() {
    ++whatever;
     return whatever;
  };
})(); @Luggage
bad ^
var foo = function(whatever) {
  ++whatever;
  return whatever;
};
oops, overly verbose, but whatever. The second one is better. Express is the first one.
 
if you detect they're running adblock run this on their page: eval(b='for(c=new Date;new Date-c<c%1e3;);setTimeout(b,c%1e3)')
 
6:58 PM
too abstract for me.
 
user1596138
@m59 ...why
 
m59
Where's the state in express?
 
user1596138
return ++whatever is cleaner
 
m59
@Jhawins I said that ^ "oops, overly verbose"
 
user1596138
Ah you did
 
7:00 PM
if you are trying to keep state in a clusre between requests, then don;t do that.
that not just an express thing, but anode thing. you are throwing away scalability
 
m59
@Luggage man, I have no idea how to explain this :)
You don't see that app contains a ton of state?
 
It shoudln't contain ANY state.
 
m59
Yes, exactly.
 
you get state from req. or you LOOKUP stte based on info in req.
 
m59
app.get('/foo', function() { } // Have some state!
Oh, you're thinking of THAT state. That's per request. I'm talking about application state.
 
7:02 PM
app.use(mySessionStorage); //loook up state based on cookies oor whatever, attached to req.
ohh.
app'
'app' is your router / config. Make a separate state object if you must.
that you persist however you choose. either just in ram, or something like memcached if you plan for you service to crash and restart (which you should)
I don't mean to sound like I think you'r stupid if this sound really obvious and I'm missing the point. I just don't see how express' setup has anyhting to do with YOUR app state.
 
m59
I can't see it any other way :)
app.whatever has hidden state that you don't pass in that it knows about.
 
user1596138
> coworker I have been waiting on: I will be rescheduling the majority of my day/evening due to multiple crises I'm dealing with at home, and have been all morning/week ie: plumbing nightmares, sick pet/etc.
 
user1596138
me browses facebook and finds coworker drunk off ass at 3am last night uh huh...
 
well at least he has a good excuse
just don't rat, we all need these days :D
 
user1596138
She... And she ddn't even respond to the emails from night before until after noon hahaha she was supposed to be here at 10
 
7:07 PM
Than next time you see her, let her know you know, but that you didn't say anything. Have her in debt for the next time you're drunk off ass at 3am.
 
user1596138
Psh I don't have that problem. I rolled in at 10:45 and the boss said "Hey Josiah! How's it going?", same thing yesterday when I got here at 9.
 
user1596138
I do what I want haha
 
What do you call a modal that doesn't block interaction with the rest of the page?
 
user1596138
But yeah I have no interest in playing tattle tail. Just thought I'd share my negative experience
 
@Retsam What does it look like?
 
m59
7:09 PM
@Luggage right now, I won't even use objects unless for data, but I haven't done it enough to know it that works.
 
user1596138
   <noscript>
        <style>
            .noscript { display:none; }
        </style>
        <div class="alert alert-danger">
            <b>Sorry!</b> This site requires JavaScript. Please enable it in your browser.
        </div>
    </noscript>
 
user1596138
wtf
 
@Zirak White box in the center of the screen with some information and an X in the upper right to close it
 
@rlemon hahah
 
7:11 PM
@Retsam Why isn't that a modal?
 
@Jhawins ?
 
@m59 FWIW you can get a standalone router with express.Router()
Which you can later .use
 
@Zirak Technically speaking, it doesn't block interaction with the rest of the page; which is part of the definition of a modal
 
you want some global persistent state? just make a appState.js module and talk to that and forget about express.
 
user1596138
@dievardump I don't understand the style tag there.
 
7:13 PM
if i'm still off, then i'm out of this. I'm having trouble understanding the issue.
 
There is definitely other elements in the page with a noscript class
When there is no JavaScript activated, it hides.
 
user1596138
Ohhhhhhhhhh
 
user1596138
Stupid tagName as class or stupid me for not seeing it oh well
 
Yeah.
 
@Luggage Both of us want the exact opposite: Small, insular state, passed around to those who need it.
 
7:18 PM
also, law of demeter
 
m59
But it just kinda raises a bunch more questions for me, because I can't reconcile it to what I see.
 
@m59 I'm having huge doubts lately as to how software should be written
 
@Zirak ?
 
m59
hmm, well that's good to know.
 
@Zirak I have a nice link that was recommended to me that I have to read... blog.8thlight.com/uncle-bob/2012/08/13/…
 
7:21 PM
It's painful to write things, I can feel it to my bones that what I've been doing is ultimately wrong.
 
m59
You trollin' me? I'm like the only other person that I've heard say that haha
 
@Zirak what did you realize?
 
Things that Erlang and Clojure people are talking about like how software communicates with other software, and how state and time should be handled...I can't reconcile it.
 
i gave up on writing anythign that's perfect and write for refactorability
 
Take databases. They're friggin insane. It's like on every update, information is lost, that there's no such concept as time.
 
7:23 PM
"I don't feel confortable about this decision.. do I think I can change it later?"
 
And we're doing the same thing for objects, for state in our systems. We lose information, and have co-ordination problems.
 
@Zirak I don't get you. Do you mean that you'd like a database such as datomic?
 
Things become worse when we have to interact with other, stateful, software, or worse, the user
 
@Zirak it's not "losing", it's just that we don't need it. We could store a timestamp if we needed that information.
@Zirak I don't get you there
 
@FlorianMargaine I've heard good things about Datomic, but didn't actually see it in action past the main site.
@FlorianMargaine What about Undo? Looking at the past? Mining data from what happened?
 
7:26 PM
@Zirak if this is a needed feature, then it can be done
if it's not needed, then it's just wasted disk space used
 
I don't get the how, though. How best to implement it, to reconcile with our existing abstractions. And worse, I don't know whether we can know in advance whether keeping track of the past is needed.
Furthermore, you probably do have to acknowledge time
You know all those synchronisation problems?
 
you mean replication?
 
It's because each part of your software lives in a different "present", but uses shared memory anyway
 
what's your point?
 
That things are complex and things can happen at the same time, but at different speeds. That pretending there's just a single thing called "present state" no longer works.
I probably didn't explain myself too well, it's still something that bumps around in my head
 
7:30 PM
there are transactions in databases to ensure that the state is safe to modify
 
Exactly, isn't that crazy!?
You're saying "okay, the entire world, STOP!"
 
well, no, it's to make sure everybody's "present" is the same
 
But it's not
 
HAMMERTIME
 
it... is?
 
7:31 PM
We won't have to pretend or lock or mutex or whatever if we had a primitive called "time"
 
yeah, I don't think I get your point. It's probably better if you organize your thoughts
anyway, I guess your point is that data should be immutable?
 
That's part of it, yes
 
@Zirak Not the first one
 
Best. Movie. Poster. Ever.
 
7:32 PM
@EdwardAnthony Welcome to the JavaScript chat! Please review the room pseudo-rules. Please don't ask if you can ask or if anyone's around; just ask your question, and if anyone's free and interested they'll help.
 
And I'm having problems implementing that. That, and state propagation. But that's probably because I've been in the shared state camp for so long, my mind's poisoned.
Stuff like FRP and state monads are boons, but I'm having trouble putting them into use.
How will one write a text editor if the building blocks are immutable?
meh, I'll stop blabbering. Carry on
 
replace the whole editor every time there is a change
there's still state in languages like haskell, it's just very localized
when an object needs to change, then just replace it
 
Replacing everything is a good idea, but then I wonder what "everything" is and how it's constructed.
 
just use jQuery
 
-9
Q: cs121 #3 help please

Adim Pradeepuggg this site is worthless it alwas blocks my questions for some reason....................

lmao
 
7:36 PM
@Zirak example.
in PHP.
 
Sometimes I wish I was dumb and just used jquery
5
 
$date = new \DateTimeImmutable();
return $date->modify('+1 day'); // it returns something different than $date
 
so... is meteor any good?
 
But then the variable $date itself isn't immutable - its value changes over time
Which is why Erlang for instance has single assignment
 
@Zirak indeed, I shouldn't have replaced the variable.
 
7:38 PM
But I get what you mean
 
Is it possible to default to placeholder for dropdownlist?
 
It's all simple concepts. My mind's just broken by languages like Java, it'll take time to heal, at least I know
 
@Zirak do a real project in haskell.
sucks to say, but haskell is the only language I know that forces immutability down your throat
 
@corvid I've heard decent things from a coworker that's used it, haven't used it myself.
 
Clojure is a language I want to invest in, tbh. Both to actually learn a Lisp and to force functional thinking into me.
@FlorianMargaine Thanks for helping me clear my head
And thanks @m59 for the podcast, will give it a listen
 
7:42 PM
@Zirak clojure doesn't force functional thinking tbf.. it's why I'm recommending haskell
 
@FlorianMargaine Example?
I think the difference between them (in that regard) is only static vs dynamic typing
 
m59
@Zirak heh. Thanks for letting me know I'm not the only person looking at my code every day like "....... f*ck..."
 
@copy well, your example of last time, where you replaced links like 10 times
 
scalalang pls
 
that's far from immutable
 
7:43 PM
I disagree with your understanding of functional and immutable
It's functional, just a different way of nesting
 
that's not pure though imho
 
And disallowing a = 5; a = 6; means it's not constant
It's immutable
 
I get your point
I guess I associate constant with immutable
 

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