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user3956566
01:21
@FélixGagnon-Grenier I think a mod needs technical knowledge or they're not going to understand the content they're moderating. Having said that - we can't be experts in most things, but an understanding of programming helps to extrapolate to other languages
02:18
Hi, where is the nominee that supposes himself to be the best, most awesome? Can't find him on the list anymore. Those comments really made my day.
Rob
Rob
@VinhVO They either withdrew their nomination, or a community manager removed it
@Rob Well, I just missed some later comments.
 
3 hours later…
05:39
It would be nice if the election notification in the featured sidebar would have the Stack Overflow icon as opposed to the meta Stack Overflow icon.
05:58
Kinda slow in here at night I guess :P
 
2 hours later…
07:34
the actual mod are bad , really bad , i got banned recently for no reason and when i asked why i had no answer , so i think that the mod shouldnt be some one from the comunity
07:50
Maybe if you read the mod message again you will find the reason. Anyway a mod from quora seems like fun :), I wonder how that would work... let me deleted all...
user3956566
@TravisJ lol yep
08:27
@AbdeslemCharif I am almost certain it wasn't for no reason but this isn't the place to discuss the ins and outs of that. With regards to a mod not being from the community, I find that difficult to understand. You're saying some random person who doesn't use Stack Overflow should moderate Stack Overflow when they have no vested interest in the community? You'll see a lot more banning for "no reason" that's for sure.
user3956566
@Bugs the community has its own social norms and rules (dictated in part by the actual rules and in part by the participants). An outsider would be at odds with this.
10:11
@YvetteColomb Yeah, I can't see it being something an outsider would want to do.
@AbdeslemCharif If you feel like you weren't treated fairly you can open a meta.stackoverflow ticket, I was never banned and mods have always been helpful in the ~5 years I've been around
user3956566
10:38
@Bugs especially not as a volunteer
@YvetteColomb Exactly that. I also don't think the general community would on the whole be happy about it
user3956566
@Bugs nope lol
user3956566
even the community team are technical
16:07
@AbdeslemCharif You were first warned about a rule violation for what happened on June 21, 2017: stackoverflow.com/users/4284170/abdeslem-charif?tab=reputation and then when we found this same behavior again on March 2 you were suspended. It is one of our jobs to preserve the integrity of the voting system. We did warn you first before temporarily suspending your account. If this doesn't happen again, you have nothing to worry about.
Moderators come from the community because we understand and care about maintaining the great resource that is Stack Overflow. One of things I personally find important is maintaining trust in the voting system. I want to make sure that you can be sure that something received votes not because someone's friends all voted for them or because they created falsified accounts to vote for themselves. Because we know the site well, we can spot when voting just doesn't look right and investigate.
pleasekeepupthegoodwork.gif #puppyphoto
NH.
NH.
16:46
@rene, I wish you would run for mod. You are such an asset to the community, and great at bringing order and sense when things get out of hand.
16:58
Honestly, with all of the moderators that are running that utilize and exercise the APIs for moderation, I wish my question in regards to that had been selected for candidates to answer.
It'd make it easier to have a few front-runners in mind, at least.
Hi all! o/
How's it going?
NH.
NH.
Dude!
(yeah, its going)
Good luck @BaummitAugen, nice to see you running!
@Makoto what sort of abusive patterns were you thinking of with that question?
Just targeting specific users, or something else?
how many times have you nominated yourself?
17:02
@Bugs Thanks, I appreciate it!
@PeterHaddad This is my second time, after summer last year.
ohh okay
NH.
NH.
@ArtOfCode Makoto was asking about whether they use APIs for moderation, not to gain an advantage.
@NH. I don't think so. This is the question:
> Our community is more sophisticated than ever before. We have the ability to script out a lot of the mundane and tedious parts of moderation, ranging from quality-of-life improvements while working the queue, to automated scripts being able to flag comments with incredibly accuracy.

> Suppose now that you're elected as a moderator, yet you haven't heard of these endeavors or haven't really seen what fruits they've bore. A user has come up for flagging an inhuman amount of content. However, their flagging accuracy is quite high (99.999%). Despite this, there is the impression of abusive f
@ArtOfCode: Let's say for starters there's a lot of targeted voting, or the odd (and bizarre) spam flag that comes up. Something that would suggest that there's automation, but that it's not very sophisticated automation, or is flawed to the degree that it targets a user or particular kind of users without much "emotion".
NH.
NH.
oh I see
17:05
@NH. I doubt your wish will be honoured. I'm not good enough, despite what you all believe.
@Makoto That... yeah. That'd be a complex situation. The targeted voting is obviously right out, so that gets a mod message.
Odd spam flags are easy enough to decline.
Did y'll presure @Makoto already to nominate?
No - no one pressures me like they'd pressure you @rene
You really should run though @rene
2
I think you'd be fine
It's the "unsophisticated automation" that's getting me here - we're looking at a user with 99.99+% accuracy in their flagging, but that's being fed by some relatively basic automation.
@ArtOfCode: It's not exactly a paradox. It can be the case that automation is 99.99% effective at removing or flagging content. It just happens to be the case that it flags content which probably shouldn't be, or should be given a little more thought or a little more due diligence.
It can be paradoxical in that wow, it's accurate, but it slips more into confirmation bias at that point. It's accurate, but still feels wrong.
17:09
@rene If you don't think you'd have the time or the desire to handle flags, I get it. However, if you think it's because you're not qualified, I'd beg to differ.
that pressure
Aye, I get that. My current thinking is that it's probably not a big issue, actually - I'd want to keep an eye on it, but it's not something that needs immediate action. The user is overwhelmingly flagging stuff that should be flagged, otherwise they wouldn't have a 99.99+% helpful rate.
Fair answer.
The invalid flags are easy enough to decline. Maybe if it happens frequently then I'd find them in chat to figure out what's going on and if we can improve it.
If automation is going awry, it's usually easy to pick it out (almost always due to someone blindly flagging in response to a simple query). I can't think of many cases where someone is flagging with a high degree of accuracy, yet shows anything problematic in that. Occasional misses, sure, but declined flags are usually enough to stop those.
17:13
It's an interesting take for me since, at least, we have had instances in which users who have had high volumes of flags/reviews and high success rates have been marred/slowed down by a system-defined significant amount of bad flags/reviews. Quick maths: this user had an accuracy ratio of 99.97% and was still banned (not that I disagree with the decision in any way shape form or fashion at all).
@BradLarson time is not the issue. I do think my style is or will be or will become an issue. I need to figure out first if and how I can get rid of some of my habbits that are not beneficial when moderating. My sense of humor (or the lack of it of the community) being the major deal-breaker atm, at least in my mind. Thanks for the support though.
@Makoto Huh, I think I missed that happening
You might've @ArtOfCode
But for the most part I'm extrapolating. This was a more visible look into accuracy guidelines for reviews rather than flags. Flags aren't reviews and they're not really comparable. But the data point in accuracy was, at least, curious.
@Makoto Was that here? That turned out to be a screwup on our end, not the user's fault. Fun fact: they currently have a 99.92% helpful rate on flags.
Aye. Any system is going to have false positives, and that includes the systems that apply automatic bans based on defined thresholds. Some of those moderators can remove, fortunately, but others not.
17:24
@BradLarson: No. The user had something like five or six orders of magnitude of reviews done. But...I only invoked that example to get some numbers on accuracy (which then kind of...melt...because reviews are important). It's more of a talking point than anything else.
There definitely is a trend toward more automation, which in general has been a positive, but I do like to keep a human in the loop at some point. It at least gives a second opinion on something.
I feel like automation's great. It seems to be helping in awesome and exciting ways. I just wish Stack Overflow had a manifesto to actually guide how automation is treated and handled, irrespective of mod status.
I think it's generally okay if that human is just the bot's operator looking at a dashboard of stuff to review what the bot's done, though. Particularly for moderation bots, there'll usually be a moderator looking at it as well, so there's already two humans there.
In theory SE is all for automation - that's why they have things like the API and SEDE. In practice it gets murky because not everyone is good at automating things well.
Hence "manifesto". Everyone can write bots. Few can write bots well. Even fewer write good bots.
Aye. I think part of that is actually down to the moderators - how moderators respond to bots' actions sets a tone for the rest of the community.
17:34
Some of that discussion is being had in questions like this: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/307585/…
Hmmm, I recognise that post :)
NH.
NH.
18:00
@Makoto What is the difference between writing bots well and writing good bots? Asimov's laws?
or is it just that you can be really efficient at writing bots that do really bad things?
18:26
@NH. Well...a bot that's written poorly is not something we need on the network or anywhere. A good bot written poorly may have limited applications or use.
I don't think Asimov would be bothered that much since there's no actual harm done to us as humans... But I see your point.
user3956566
morning all
morning
18:42
@NH. The difference is the only metric available...accuracy. Bot.IsAccurate ? Good : Bad. Doesn't really matter how it is implemented so long as it works.
Bot.IsAccurate && BotOwner.RespectsCommunity
18:57
If it is accurate, that is respectful as it is clearly acting within the defined bounds. With regards to respecting the community, that kind of addresses the hidden behavior of the bot in Brad's post as it isn't really a bot. It is a bot net, and that distinction can lead to some concerns.
I don't think that exact botnet is problematic, but creating one is certainly not something I would hope everyone does.
Aye. I threw that in mostly because of what we've been seeing with Smokey - the system we've built is incredibly accurate, but we can't just say "we made an accurate thing, gonna do what we want with it on your sites now".
evil laugh
:)
user3956566
19:12
@ArtOfCode and also the accuracy needs to be monitored - which it is
user3956566
19:25
@ArtOfCode I had to ask the question - you know I like you, so I hope you're ok with it.
user3956566
19:37
@ArtOfCode do you want to bring that discussion into here?
19:49
@ArtOfCode ok, well that's arguable, but not as important as to what I'm leading to. If you are elected it will hallmark a change in how we do things - as Rene's question asked - (and I'm not saying that is bad, I'm concerned) and will open the door for many others with lower candidate scores to nominate and possibly be elected. What do you think of that? Do you anticipate problems with this? we can go into the election chat room if you like. I don't want to clutter this up. Which is why I didn't post under your nomination. — Yvette Colomb 13 mins ago
@YvetteColomb I genuinely don't see why there should be a problem there. There are thresholds and requirements for a reason - 3000 rep and whatever badges it is you need these days. Anyone who meets those requirements is eligible to nominate.
The whole nomination-primary-election process is designed specifically to filter the nominees down to those who would be the best moderators in the community's opinion.
If people think they're mod material, let 'em nominate whatever their candidate score, just like we do now. They're not going to get elected unless they are mod material.
2
I agree.
user3956566
@ArtOfCode well - my observation is this: This may well be the type of shift @rene mentions in his question. In which case that's how the site is moving. My concern it that it may start a trend that disregards candidate score and we could end up with a mod base of people who really don't participate all that avidly on the site itself
I agree.
Damn, bad timing
user3956566
Don't forget many people who vote are not active on meta like many of us in here
user3956566
19:53
@BhargavRao it's ok we all got it
user3956566
omg @BhargavRao cringes and runs at agreeing with me LOL
I haven't even read your message to agree/disagree.
:|
user3956566
I also stand by my point - why are you not putting in the time on the site (Stack Overflow) and then running, rather than saying - I'll run, become mod then put in the time. Your reviews, votes and flags will be indicative of this, and contribution does count for something in learning what is ontopic and what is not
user3956566
@BhargavRao it looked funny - lol
19:57
@YvetteColomb Neutral there. I agree that general users w/o having activity on SO nominating is awkward, but I disagree that Art would start a trend. We all know how good a mod, Art is.
user3956566
@ArtOfCode also - I like you - I like @Magisch, but I honestly believe you both need to contribute more by way of content and @ArtOfCode you need to be on the review queues. It's like wanting to take the express train without doing the ground work. I understand you've done good work for the network, but so have many others and they also contribute more specifically on SO. to be cont
Random users can't say, OOooh look, Art nominated with 4k rep, so I will, because they would not have even half the stats of what Art has, network wide.
user3956566
My concern is it's supporting the mentality of "fast" we have a society that is becoming increasingly impatient and not prepared to wait. Fast food, for example. McDonalds apologises if you have to wait more than a few minutes for your food. Worthwhile things take time and effort. Careers, arts, relationships.. You have put the effort into the network, but not specifically SO.
@YvetteColomb I think you're right to a point, but that none of that is actually a problem.
We have always had people nominating at the lower bound of the reputation bracket. I don't think there is a trend to be created, in that it is already present. Moreover, the community at large for Stack Overflow is fully capable of weighing a set of contributions as it relates to moderation in my opinion. This is much ado about nothing if you ask me.
user3956566
20:00
And this is a moderator position for SO not the network
A trend that disregards candidate score? Why is that a problem?
More to the point, the leap from there to a mod base of people who don't participate is a long leap.
user3956566
@TravisJ not if people with low candidate scores are being elected
If people aren't good mods, they're still not going to get elected. Whether it's a trend of low candidate scores or not.
If they got elected, they deserved it.
user3956566
@ArtOfCode my points above. The candidate score is an indication of site commitment
20:01
@YvetteColomb Candidate score is an indicator of specific aspects of site involvement. There are plenty of ways to be involved in a site without ever touching your candidate score. — ArtOfCode 29 mins ago
user3956566
@ArtOfCode that's a statement that has no real substance, can you elaborate?
Candidate score is but the latest heuristic that has been tried to express some kind of moderator qualification. Before that, helpful flag counts were exposed and everyone hooked onto that. Before the moderator-related badge requirements were in place, people fixated on reputation score. People like having numbers to look at. But those numbers don't always tell the full story.
I think a more disturbing trend to create would be forcing other candidates out of running for moderator for personal reasons. There is a clear structure for being able to nominate, and so long as that is satisfied there should be no discussion who is eligible to nominate.
user3956566
@TravisJ currently? What if the trend of taking people with candidate scores of 20/40 takes off and we end up with a lot of people without the experience moderating?
@YvetteColomb Uh... I'm not sure how that's not got substance to it. Literally the entire election process is designed to whittle a bunch of nominees down to the ones who will be the best moderators.
@YvetteColomb Again, you're making a large logical leap there.
user3956566
20:03
@BradLarson of course, which is why we showcase what we believe we have done for the site/s
@YvetteColomb The idea of a large group of inexperienced users moderating is only conjecture, and at present I do not find any evidence to support that as a theory.
user3956566
@ArtOfCode but am I? I'm really asking for people to consider this. I'm not saying you shouldn't be elected. I'm discussing this as a potential issue of change, which it would be.
You kind of are saying that though, which is a much smaller leap to make.
user3956566
@TravisJ I'll repeat - change always starts small. There's always the first step. Do we run with it or can we discuss it?
If you would wish to discuss weighting the reputation in the candidate score higher, or raising the bar for entry higher, that would be a discussion best suited for meta to get the most consensus.
20:05
@YvetteColomb Yes, you are. On two counts, actually. Firstly that people who nominate with low scores would necessarily be elected - they wouldn't, we're still narrowing the field down to the best candidates to elect not the people with low scores.
user3956566
@TravisJ I'm more trying to stimulate a discussion about it, there's a couple of points. The idea of doing the time/dedication to the actual site. The other is what does this potentially mean for the future?
Secondly that my election would necessarily create an issue or a trend of low score nominations. In a community this size, the vast majority of people simply won't notice. You might see one or two more low-score nominations next election, but it takes more than one event to create a trend.
I don't think that discussing it in a small group here is going to get anywhere, and it just feels like you are implying in our small group discussion that art or magicsh should drop out. In this "stimulated discussion" I believe the consensus is "there is no risk".
user3956566
@TravisJ I'm not and I understand how meta works. I'm wanting to discuss this. As the majority are saying hey it's ok.. when historically people have queried it.
user3956566
@TravisJ there's been 3 of us active in the discussion, how can there be a consensus
20:07
Brad chimed in. And Bhargav.
That said, you kind of make my point. How can we in this small setting achieve a community consensus?
user3956566
Never mind it was a discussion and it seems people get defensive and @ArtOfCode you still haven't answered this question: Why don't you increase your activity on Stack Overflow then run for moderator, rather than run for mod and then increase your time? What makes you different from that scrutiny? Think about it
Let's get the idea that I'm different out of the way. I'm not different. I'm not exempt from any restrictions, thresholds, or scrutiny.
@YvetteColomb maybe he needs motivation and after he becomes moderator he will be more active
I'm not doing that because I don't feel I need to. Whether you're likely to be a good moderator and whether it's the right time to nominate is a choice each candidate makes for themselves. I feel that I have the necessary to moderate effectively, and while my lack of apparent actions will hinder my candidature slightly I don't feel that that's a reason not to nominate.
You've made the same choice for yourself. You've had a rocky few on Meta; a number of people are unsure of your ability to moderate. The same unsureness applies to me - but we've both made the choice that it shouldn't be a reason not to nominate, because we both feel that we're able to adequately fill the position.
user3956566
@ArtOfCode thanks for that. Also we're all allowed to be scrutinised. This is nothing. I'm not actually against you, just asking some tough questions. I think you'll be elected fwiw.
20:17
@YvetteColomb Thanks. I'm not going to try to predict the election beyond idle speculation for amusement... it's just too early to call at the moment.
user3956566
@ArtOfCode yes and as in last time I'm being scrutinised, this is something we'll both need to cope with if elected and I doubt I will be, but I think you will be - who knows, I lost my crystal ball ;)
It's nice to see that my questionnaire answers are currently at the top in votes, but that's not representative. It may well be because I was the most popular of the two or three early nominations, rather than the most popular overall.
user3956566
@ArtOfCode I'm not sure - I think you have the potential to be a great mod on SO - I wish you had been on the site more- that's all. I think you have a GREAT DEAL to offer and DO offer the network, as has @Undo. I've always admired you both. So please don't mistake my questions, as a disregard of that. :)
user3956566
With the work of Charcoal becoming known network wide - it (probably) goes in your favour. You are sensible and industrious. I'm sure you will have the time to do it. You are even tempered. All pluses @ArtOfCode
@YvetteColomb Yeah. That's a thing I need to work on. I am actually around SO quite a bit - I just don't do enough visible stuff, more reading.
20:22
I believe it's about time that the equivalence reputation === technical kowledge disappear, and a <10k moderator would go a long way for that
there are 100k users that I would hate to work with, and 1k users that know much more than these
Yup. Reputation is a rough guideline to technical_knowledge * time_on_site. Nothing more.
You need a degree of technical ability to get reputation, but it's more to do with the amount you're on the site.
user3956566
@FélixGagnon-Grenier I know many really good devs who have never contributed on SO - they don't have time, so I tend to agree that low rep != low programming ability. Now before people go and say - but you just said - it's called having a discussion and putting up an argument
user3956566
@ArtOfCode yep - you can't have a huge rep and not know anything about programming, I think the 100k rep and don't know anything is a myth.
user3956566
high rep and reviewing, flagging, etc shows a dedication to the site. An investment of sorts.
@ArtOfCode tbh... I'm just hanging around for about 4 months now... but got pretty much the hang of it without mod tools... Can't imaging having Svhinda's and 6 rep poluting electionlists... makes scrolling rather grinding teeth-work and perform a ... /bail-out on such topic.
So, I'm up for a minimum rep to get or nominate yourself.
20:27
@YvetteColomb I... would beg to differ. I see daily the same 100k users answering the same super basic sql duplicates. I'd hazard they don't care about advanced concepts, random number generation or cryptography.
yes, they're aware of programming. they're aware that there is cpus, hardware, memory addresses, and stuff
@FélixGagnon-Grenier: Do you know how simple it is talk about a bikeshed outside of the nuclear power plant?
I think I do. was I, just now?
Yes. Yes, you were.
Now to your point about those high-rep users answering those questions - can you point to how many users are actually asking the complex questions about the reactor itself?
It's a much, much smaller population of questions. Questions which are hard to actually find.
Questions which get drowned out about how "fuchsia" is spelled.
@FélixGagnon-Grenier don't you have a text file with default comments... and links to I downvoted becau.se? Makes life easy if you do.
I don't think it's anything to do with high-rep users not knowing advanced concepts. It's that they can't find anyone asking about them.
20:31
I believe that what I was trying to get at, is that the point I understand from @Yvette's comments, that low reputation users could get more reputation before running, is conflicting with how hard it is to find these questions. So, for a user who does not want to answer these, or do not have the energy to, it might be long to acquire all these reps.
user3956566
@Makoto totally agree. Knocking high rep users is useless - they bother to post. Even if the questions are simple. They're quick and knock out answers quickly. Something I'm not good at. I'll be writing an answer and by the time it's finished there will be other answers posted. So I try and find questions that have been on the board for a while.
user3956566
@FélixGagnon-Grenier energy - exactly - it does take energy - as does moderating - so it's not a bad yard stick as one type of measure
@FélixGagnon-Grenier: I mean...there are lots of people who want their bikeshed painted...so I don't see the reputation thing as much of an issue? I'd be looking for people who actually have their head on straight when it comes to what moderators actually do and what they'd be signing up for.
Tim Post was just a hair above 10k when he was elected, and Adam Lear was squarely below that (8k?). They were two of the best moderators (now employees) the site has seen.
user3956566
@BradLarson remember context - 8K and 10K was worth more then. The site was younger
20:37
Undo was 14k, got elected 2 yrs back, he's a damn good mod
(>10k, but still less than 20k)
It's worth about the same then as it is now @YvetteColomb, at least in my mind. It's not like it was any simpler to get rep back. I'd also conjecture that having seen the "great influx" and the shift in direction and cadence for the site back then would've given those old-time mods a lot of experience on what to do and what not to do going forward.
IMO it's more beneficial for them having seen the wild, wild west days than their rep score.
in 2016 Stack Overflow Moderator Election, Nov 19 '16 at 17:39, by Brad Larson
With all due respect to the other candidates (and there are plenty of good ones), I personally believe that ArtOfCode and Andy are the two who most understand the responsibilities of the position, so don't look past them just because of reputation score or some other number.
That was mentioned 2 yrs back, still totally valid.
user3956566
It's funny, I was queried about my rep being too low last election - I honestly think people are selective about what and with whom they choose to scrutinise people over - to me it seems an excuse sometimes to just discredit a candidate they don't like or to brush it aside to support a candidate they like. That's my conclusion from this.
Eeek, shoulda told me.
I hate it when people bring the rep argument into elections
(I'm probably biased given that I'm the second lowest rep diamond)
user3956566
I just can't figure out how to fit into this culture. I've tried for years. I don't always get the humour and honestly feel like an outsider much of the time. Obviously I'm doing something wrong and I don't know how to fix it. People often grill me and few come to my defence, if I choose to grill someone, it's like I'm hurting a unicorn. I don't know how to change that.
20:51
Take a neutral approach @YvetteColomb; kind of sit back and take everything in. Stack Overflow's culture is... complicated.
user3956566
@BhargavRao if it's not rep - I have people picking out my reviews, or past, or whatever, and there was so much pile on last year about issues that shall not be named it would have been easier to miss it. If I can weather the scrutiny of meta and chat, I can easily weather the scrutiny of being a mod.
People will look for every little flaw about you in an effort to discredit or disqualify you from modhood. The important thing is to be sure that you can respond to those challenges when and where it matters.
The "when and where it matters" piece can be tough to grasp. So it's easier to go outside and walk around in a park for a while until it matters. Works for me.
user3956566
@Makoto I've been taking it in for 6 years. I've learnt a few errors - not to discuss anything non-program related is one and that's ok. I know that people have no idea how hard I've tried to fit into the community. I don't think not fitting in will make me a bad mod, I think it will make me a better mod, as I don't like pile on and I'm compassionate with those who struggle
Well, tbh, I did not like your nomination/candidacy last time round, because of a very particular reason, but this time your nomination is clean and on the spot. There's not much to argue about it.
user3956566
@Makoto totally agree. That's why I have horses! They are like breathing in heaven itself :D
20:54
I admit I have the memory of a goldfish at times so I can't really recall what "issues" there were with your nomination. I believe we butted heads. But that was in the past. Let's see what you're up to nowadays.
One of the most valuable lessons I learned from watching Bill the Lizard moderate was how to de-escalate situations. Sometimes you have to let people take shots at you and you just have to walk away. Know that every single word you type publicly will be examined and used against you. Bill was a master of this.
5
user3956566
@Makoto oh many people butt heads. One person I've butted heads with over time is @Cerbrus and people don't realise that we're friends. I really like Cerb, we share a lot of the same outside interests. It's really good to be quick to forgive, or recognise that the disagreement is just that, it doesn't mean you don't like the person
user3956566
@BradLarson yep - and to reply to what you think is relevant and ignore the rest. Yes learning not to reply is an art. Similar to learning to press "skip" when reviewing
@BradLarson Sometimes the community defends you though, it isn't all bad :)
user3956566
@BhargavRao fwiw I voted for Undo :D
wim
wim
20:59
what is the lower rep bound for mod election, out of curiosity?
I also wish more people could see some of the mod message responses Tim Post and Ed Cottrell have written. People spew obscenities at them, they write an incredibly thoughtful and kind message back, and you get shocked when the other person apologizes and reforms.
3
@wim 3k
Not for nothing @TravisJ but that has to be the easiest defense of a diamond moderator's actions ever
@BradLarson Hey, talk to Tim/Ed and the users concerned, get permission to post 'em on Gems
buy that book :P
wim
wim
21:02
Surprisingly low. Should be 10k or even 25k, perhaps with the possibility of exceptions being made for users who aren't asking/answering but are highly active in other ways.
user3956566
@BradLarson I have to tell you Tim Post and Shog are two amazing people, so's Adam and the user formerly known as Bluefeet (Prince reference there). I've had a lot to do with tim and he's on the ball.
@YvetteColomb me too
user3956566
@wim well that's been a lot of the discussion here this morning
user3956566
@BhargavRao I voted for you too! lol
@Makoto - Yeah, in hindsight it looks pretty easy. Took a lot of heat to post that as an answer at the time though. Most of the heat was deleted. It is hard sometimes to be the first person to post an answer to an angry poster.
Ron
Ron
21:03
@wim Disagree. I know some 6k superstars in the tag I'm frequenting so that rep boundary requirement doesn't hold water imho.
@TravisJ That OP is a troll though.
@Cerbrus - Fully.
Ron
Ron
@wim They simply don't care about the rep. 200k people turn to them for advice.
Do you think our discussion with wim needs trimming here? meta.stackoverflow.com/a/364580
it's sure a lot of text :)
@Cerbrus - Was pretty irritated by the flippancy of his mod post, glad it got removed. Didn't he do the same thing last election as well?
21:04
I think he did
that was a different user.
user3956566
@ArtOfCode I have to say - I'm feeling reassured after our chat here. I had been genuinely fearful, not of you - of the possible trend leading to not so wise choices.
No that was definitely someone else
Oh, okay, well can we still blame him for it out of annoyance? :P
@BhargavRao orly?
21:05
ys
I think they made it to primaries if I recall correctly before they withdrew?
Nah, they were prematurely aborted
@Makoto: No, this time there was a troll nomination as well
user3956566
@Ron well there's a lot of very experienced programmers who don't have the time or inclination to be active on here - so the rep issue can be misleading
Yes I saw his briefly lived nomination
user3956566
21:05
@Makoto deleted as opposed to withdrawn
Ron
Ron
@YvetteColomb Indeed.
Ah.
(That user also nominated himself for spanish SO community manager, despite not speaking spanish)
@YvetteColomb Moderation isn't about being a good programmer though. It's about understanding how SO works.
3
user3956566
@Cerbrus is it bad I think that's a bit funny
I'd argue that high rep is a good representation of understanding how SO works.
21:07
Except if you don't know what those shiny things below your name are.
user3956566
@Cerbrus yes and know - we're actually debating that low rep doesn't mean you're a bad programmer. I think knowing how to program helps with closing and deleting questions
If you know how to game the system...
Ah, you're taking that route
@YvetteColomb I don't completely agree. Moderators are exception handlers.
These exceptions usually don't require programming knowledge
(Correct me if I'm completely wrong)
How many of those 54 nominations were Evan Carroll? — mmyers Feb 5 '16 at 1:25
21:09
@BhargavRao Didn't say high rep === quality ;-)
Oh yea, that was the name
wim
wim
@Jean-FrançoisFabre are you asking me?
@wim not only you. you read the blurb. I did too.
wim
wim
I think you should leave it, there is no harm. Other users might be interested in the answers to my questions, too, and decide to vote or not vote for you based upon your answers.
user3956566
@Cerbrus I have to feed my horse - I'll be back
21:25
@wim. ok let's leave it. If it bothers someone, they'll flag.
wim
wim
@Jean-FrançoisFabre should I take your answers to mean "no, I will not be joining the python chat room even if I become a mod?"
nice that you bring that up. I didn't want to add some more comments. I'm not sure I can take all the mod work + chat discussion in several rooms. SOCVR is already time consuming. If I'm needed in the python room, why not. Seems pretty crowded to me :)
And I'm not all python. I also do c.
even without mod duties I find that too time-consuming.
wim
wim
that's a shame, rm 6 could do with some fresh blood
okay, if you feel that I could add some value. Not easy to enter in a new room. I kind of get used to SOCVR.
wim
wim
it's a bit cliquey in there because the room owners choose the other room owners and that's somewhat a self-fulfilling prophecy. I was curious if that was keeping yourself and other active users in from participating.
wim
wim
21:50
How many moderators will be selected from the nominees? Is it a fixed number each year?
@wim: There's three slots available
It's in the sidebar
It changes by year; some years there may be more, but I don't think I've seen it dip much lower than 3 before?
Twas 2 last time
Andy and Cody
@YvetteColomb I have been spending in excess of 4 hours a week flagging stuff on SO for the past months
Just because you don't see it doesn't mean I'm not active on SO
wim
wim
@Makoto ah, thanks
4 hours a week? You gotta pump those rookie numbers up.
22:01
At least it's more than 30min/d. :)
I agree low rep does not indicate directly less time, I have not really followed the whole discussion, but according to me that reps make difference on SO there is no doubt... lower then 20 and it gets very hard to become mod. Right or wrong that's how it rolls
@BhargavRao Do you want more work? Because that's how you get more work
I don't mind, flag more.
I'm going to link this when JNat busts down my door
22:04
My exams are getting to an end, I'll be back on board will full strength in 1 week. ;)
1 week 2 days to be exact
plenty of time for me to reach 1k pending flags
:D
(I probably won't actually do that but the batch for this week is still pending so it'll be the 100 tomorrow and probably the day after that)
Ah, k.
Just two sleepless nights and the pending batch should be cleared.
wim
wim
^ I'm really looking forward to that final round of the election
22:06
@BhargavRao If you wanted to you could cut me out of the process and just use the query on your own, I don't have a copyright to it
Nah, it's the round after they become a mod, inside the private rooms, which is fun.
@Magisch I was doing that until September last year, when I quit my 9-5 job and joined a full time course.
And not only that, I was also checking each and every serial downvote as well.
So that was what caused the already reversed jump back then
I thought the query just got more accurate after
I neglected the downvote query, maybe I should fine tune it more
user3956566
@Magisch I know you're active on SO - I never said you weren't. You're more active than most - the only thing was your rep.
Once I finish my studies, I'll be back with the 6hrs per day on SO schedule, and I can handle them.
But now, it's like, I've got 4hrs of sleep, and 2 outta that goes to SO. :p
Which is one reason why I became silent in chat. Except Sobotics, as that's just bot reports.
The downvote query was never meant for private consumption tbh
A mod (I forgot who) told me to not bother with serial downvoting so I kinda stopped making it
22:13
Damn, then seems like I'm the opposite guy. If that's the case, then don't bother.
slacker
user3956566
22:34
@FélixGagnon-Grenier
user3956566
in Shadow's Den on Meta Stack Exchange Chat, 2 hours ago, by Félix Gagnon-Grenier
wow... I just got my ass handed down to me in the election chatroom. I'll need some cold water and a tissue
wait... you'll tell me you believe that was about you?
user3956566
@FélixGagnon-Grenier now you're going to pretend it's not, the thread is clear. If you're going to run around discussing me, maybe don't do it in a chat room where I'm one of the owners ;)
If you look closely, that was shortly after @Makoto made me realize I was bikeshedding a bit.
I was thinking about that, and now you are being paranoid.
user3956566
@FélixGagnon-Grenier whatever
22:37
when writing that, I was not thinking of @Yvette, that was not about her, at all.
and now, you are citing random comments. If you notice, the comment you cite second, was after topic changed, and @Shadow wizard asked me a question specifically about you.
moreover, you'll notice they inferred me not wanting you to be mod, based on preferring two other mods, which in and of itself is a jump.
...can I ask what you're planning on doing with the tissue @FélixGagnon-Grenier?
I'm scared but curious
trying to rebuild some kind of confidence that I would still have something to say in the election chatroom
Without being sad, I was taken aback somewhat when realizing I had slipped.
Ah
Now I wasn't intending to shake your confidence, no no no :o
(which was totally ok of you, and the "handing my ass down" part was about how I had absolutely not seen that coming)
I got a giggle out of that, I won't hide that :D
22:47
in any event @YvetteColomb, if I had any doubts before, you dig yourself a clear will from me not to see you becoming mod. If you really, really read the first comment you cited, and thought you were being in cause, you need to take a hell of a step back. I know I should gracefully take the respite Makoto just gave us, but this was not ok. This was not about you.
2
23:02
Ahhhh... Election Chatroom, "the least tense place on Earth!"
I'm sorry, @Yvette, but situations like this is exactly why I asked you that question on your nomination.
9
Good to see the turnout. Big thanks to everyone who has nominated thus far!

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