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user457812
01:43
@mattsven Still not sure what I'm a hypocrite for
user457812
Not that I'm doubting I'm a hypocrite because a human that isn't one is probably a robot
02:42
evening yall
anyone here mess around with helios?
03:19
:/
stupid app update approved today-_- so pissed
Why are you pissed if your app is approved?
haha yeah? shouldn't you be happy?
programming is silly .-.
03:38
I know, it is right?!
this map loader is getting annoying
it refuses to work lol
actually i don't think it's me
i think it's the map generator
!
NYUYYARRGGGG
user457812
Programming is silly and I hate it and I get four days off starting Thursday so I'm going to try to work on some stuff that doesn't make me mad
user457812
'Cause good god the stuff I'm doing at work just makes me want to strangle people
hahaha sound like you aint having fun nil
user457812
03:45
You wouldn't be either if you were on the team I'm on
what are you developing?
user457812
We're not developing anything. We're maintenance.
user457812
Well, I say we, but there's just me and one other person now. The other two resigned.
well. that doesn't sound fun at all .-.
i was right the map editor is incorrect it increased the xml attribute by 1 making the whole thing retarde....
user457812
No, it isn't.
03:48
retarded
user457812
It isn't fun at all and I wish we'd stop trying to fix this and just throw it out and do it right
user457812
'Cause either way we're going to have to throw out the crap we're maintaining eventually. It's not the future, it's just the status quo, and the status quo isn't what we should be focusing on.
why don't you make a proposal on that then?
user457812
I do. Daily.
user457812
Usually in the form of asking "why the fuck are we doing this?" throughout the day.
03:51
tell them how un beneficial it is?
user457812
Or just generally cursing at the code.
enrico! i fixed it :D haha
but thats what everyone does haha :P?
user457812
At this point, I'm basically rewriting the entire codebase because I see zero reason to monkeypatch the system.
user457812
The problem is that the existing codebase has horrible performance, is undocumented, and we didn't write it.
are you writing documentation as you go? or just fixing it?
03:55
@nil what kind of project are you working on?
user457812
Everything I've written so far has doc comments, that's about it.
documentation is king in my book ;)
user457812
I'll eventually need to do some more to document how data flows through the system, since a lot of my work involves changing that
user457812
The simple explanation of the change I'm making is that we organized some data poorly and it wasn't performing as well as we wanted. In addition, code-wise, it was originally written to process one single thing at a time.
user457812
Needless to say, processing one thing at a time is stupid. Nobody cares about processing one little thing.
user457812
03:57
We're dealing with hundreds of thousands of things at a time and for some reason the code was written with the notion that it should only insert one thing at a time into a database, for example. Makes zero sense.
user457812
So a lot of what I'm doing involves making the data easier to access and processing tons of data at once.
user457812
If I turn off just the old parts of the code so far, performance is fantastic with the new code. The problem is figuring out what the old code did.
user457812
user457812
↑ Basically, this is the end goal: speedy thing goes in, speedy thing comes out.
hahaha :p
04:19
I still don't understand your message, Mutch.
17 hours ago, by Mutch95
what is enrico?
lol
should you?
05:08
so apparently i'm going to have to write my own firkin lighting aswell
hold on this looks promising
but i'm confused what do i do with the github download...
don't worry...
it's not a user made class. it a tutorial which doesn't work
user457812
user457812
Have facts.
nil would you any idea where to point me for creating a lighting class?
user457812
Your question is too generic.
they always are.
idk where to start.
nor what I'm looking for
user457812
05:24
That second one makes two of us.
apparently unity 2d refuses to have lighting. so i'm trying to figure out how i can write my own shader i guess which will allow me to add a light and illuminate it
user457812
If it's 2D, decide on how falloff is modeled and how shadows are modeled and then do that.
yes but i don't even understand what you said. i don't know what to search .-.
user457812
I don't think there's much to search because it's mostly intuitive.
user457812
Think about how lighting looks, then write that.
user457812
05:28
Also, you can't do everything in a shader, so you should drop that idea.
so what does a shader do?
user457812
Set fragments.
i can't just wright it idk what to do? do i render line by like till it fills up
would i render a shape accordingly to the position?
user457812
user457812
Look at that and tell me what you think it is.
user457812
05:30
Don't read the description because that's cheating.
user457812
Also, that is Unity.
they use points and create shapes to simulate lighting?
user457812
No, and I made that.
user457812
That's a bunch of cubes going straight up past the view/camera.
what do you mean?
user457812
05:32
There is no lighting whatsoever in that video.
user457812
It's faked using the camera projection
user457812
But there's something to think about there because 2D shadows, at least, are all just a series of edges projected outward from a point to create polygons.
yeah but this is a side scroller i what shadows for a 2d horror game
those obviously won't work
user457812
That's not a sidescroller, that's top-down
user457812
It will work if you take half a second to consider what it looks like.
05:34
i honestly don't know what it looks like ...
user457812
What might help you is to take a piece of paper, draw a few light sources on it, and then sketch what shadows would be where
user457812
Then consider how the shadows relate to the light source
the shadow sizes and so on grow depending on the distance and position
I'm looking to make a lighting effect
not something that draws shapes
user457812
Shadows are shapes.
yes but that's not my focus atm
i want to illuminate things
user457812
05:37
That's the only focus I can think of 'cause everything else is either cookies or distance.
user457812
Like I said, decide on how falloff works.
falloff?
user457812
Yes. Light falloff.
user457812
i want something like this
user457812
05:41
So do that.
i have no clue what is needed to perform that ?
user457812
You should probably read the thing I linked then.
user457812
You should also probably know what the inverse square law is in general because it's extremely important in game development anyway.
user457812
Also, another thing you might want to answer just so your brain is in the right place: what is a light?
why is it everything seems so much more difficult when i talk with you?
user457812
05:44
Because I'm in the 'teach a man to fish' camp.
and i've never heard that saying before
user457812
I'm also in the broken-Socratic-method camp, but that's another thing.
user457812
The point is that I don't really like just dumping information on people because there's no building on concepts
user457812
So if you want to know about lighting, you need to know other things first, and then you need to consider how you can model it given the sort of stuff you have
but if i was to program it. what classes would make this possible
user457812
05:47
Probably a light. That's about it.
user457812
Like I said, you need to think about what a light actually is. What properties do you need it to have to use one in your code?
oh geez
user457812
Do all lights have the same radius? Do they have a spherical falloff? Are there shadows? Do they have color? Do they have attenuation? Do only certain things affect lighting/get affected by lighting?
it's just a texture over another texture which has a low opacity
user457812
Low opacity / different blend mode. That's called cookie lighting.
user457812
05:49
It's also slightly bad for performance if you have too many overlapping light sources.
which i probably will
user457812
Fill rate / overdraw's a pain.
user457812
The term fillrate usually refers to the number of pixels a video card can render and write to video memory in a second. In this case, fillrates are given in megapixels per second or in gigapixels per second (in the case of newer cards), and they are obtained by multiplying the number of raster operations (ROPs) by the clock frequency of the graphics processor unit (GPU) of a video card. However, there is no agreement on how to calculate and report fillrates. Other possible methods are: to multiply the number of texture units by the clock frequency, or to multiply the number of pixel pipelines by...
user457812
↑ That.
and it's for iPhone so that won't be happening >.>
user457812
05:52
It'll be happening worse, anyway.
what do you mean
user457812
Fill rate/overdraw are more important on mobile devices than anything else.
is that good or bad?
user457812
It's bad if you're bumping up against fill rate limits because of overdraw.
i don't wang to overcomplicate everything i simply just want to have lighting which will be effective in a horror game like that image i sent before
user457812
05:56
Then think about what you need and build it.
user457812
There is no standard implementation of anything related to lighting. Everyone more or less does it differently depending on their needs.
user457812
Hence why it's mostly conceptual.
but what's going to perform this task a renderer class openGL?
i guess I'm just gonna have to do something...
06:12
Where is enrico today?
work. like usual
user457812
He's busy setting things on fire. Like usual.
nil am i going to need a shader?
i assume i would
user457812
Do you want the technical answer or the non-technical answer?
i want the answer that will frustrate me the least please :)
user457812
06:17
Maybe.
thanks for that. lets go with the technical answer.
user457812
Yes.
wonder if it'll explain why they're used
user457812
You cannot draw anything without a shader these days.
user457812
I said maybe because the default Unity shader for whatever may be sufficient.
06:19
so shaders are instructions to tell the computer how its rendered?
user457812
More or less.
How would you explain what shaders do??
user457812
Not sure what you mean by that.
ther ^
user457812
Given input data, they transform vertices, generate geometry, tesselate geometry, and compute the fragments for geometry. Not all shaders do all things.
user457812
06:24
I'm also probably missing aspects of it since I'm being overly general and don't know the exact workings of shaders.
yeah that's fine just trying to get a basic understanding for there use
so what i'm going to need is maybe a shader if unity's shaders don't work well enough and a class which will create a light source
user457812
You should probably avoid anything that requires hand-written shaders if possible because I know you're going to hate it.
but unity shaders are horrible. i can't use them on transparencies or the texture goes weird. and if i use the sprite/ diffuse shader it doesn't light up at all
i'm going to have to do this arn't i ...
06:39
Yo
sup
whatcha doing?
cleaning up Flow
like moving code methods around and making a checklist.. 2.0 is almost done
nice
yup:D So happy
haha :p
06:42
Still have 41 items on my list though to do
geez that's a big list
:P I started at 100
i'm learning how to write shaders. i have no real clue why i think i need one...
We should make him write one for Swift.
06:43
geez you've got a lot out of the way
Yup.. Im fast
Im at 2000 builds since early november
nil confused me again enrico!
I love Swift:D
Maximilian: But how many versions did you ship? That's the important question!
Mutch: Good.
no that's not good >.<
06:48
What do you mean Enrico?
Ship since November? 1 but not included on that 2000 builds:P
Enrico!
the 2000 builds is just for 2.0. Im like bam bam bam new feature new feature new feature
32 items now, cleaning up the list:P Already did some stuff
You guys should check this out, devforums.apple.com/thread/255420?tstart=0
this guy just said a struct is like a class .-.
06:56
Nayoso!
Maximilian: You should ship 1 version every month!
I have been releasing many versions Enrico
2.0 is a bigger update though
If i do smaller versions, 2.0 won't be as big of an impact:P
I want people to install and be like "WTF!!!!?!??!!"
i know that reaction max :p
Mac has no limit for tabbing:O I wanted to add a 25 tab limit:P Think good idea?
nah what if they want 26 ;)
hehe max do you have private mode ;)
I'm joking :p
then to bad:P
Yes Flow has private mode
but sends me all the data
JK:P
07:03
bahahaahahaha
ok no tab limit
good boy
DAMN I'M GONNA STOP USING FLOW FROM NOW ON
user457812
How many people here can pronounce Oedipus?
i don't have flow D:
07:08
Ow-dee-puss.
Mutch, GET IT.
and Enrico you dont use it already probably:P
lol its money D:
user457812
@EnricoSusatyo No. Just no.
its free Mutch
its $2 for in-app with cool features
really!
user457812
07:13
He's probably looking at one of the many other apps named Flow.
lol ya
Much look "Flow web browser"
you said it was for mac?
lol no
iOS
D: no internet on iOS sorry
How do you live
07:18
i dont
:(
I thought so
Lol damnit
I gotta save a list of URLs and times I guess to know if i should open a URL or not? IDK
@nil So how?
@Mutch95 HOW DO YOU LIVE
8 mins ago, by Mutch95
i dont
Go read swift and you will
i do read swift
07:28
read page 10
or tell me what it says..without re-reading:P
I still don't get how you have internet on Mac but not iOS.
Hes poor
because i have internet on my Mac, Windows laptop's my step dad won't allow it on anything else
link me to page ten
Is that an iPhone or an iPod, or an iPad?
Your dad limits the internet devices?
07:32
Max, if you have time, watch this --> vimeo.com/112426525
It's really really really good.
I have like 30 devices on wifi
iPhone and iPads
Are you guys watching that video?
YOU SHOULD!
07:41
what is it
You should watch it, mutch.
At least the first 15 minutes.
whats it about
About why Apple is successful, and how you can apply that to your own products.
interesting!
Get a designer who knows what their doing
07:46
Keep watching, Max.
It was made in my basement
JK.. my room
Do you like it so far?
I really really love the last 10 minutes.
Ill get there someday
07:55
Lol, get to which part?
the last 10
yay wrote my first shader
Enrico, what i learned: Make my own phone and stores
flat colours lol :p
Lol "not in shopping malls, in top posh shopping centers", yet mine are in the malls
08:04
LOL MAX
The parts that are relevant for us is coming soon :P
I also finally decided not to use UISearchController lol.
Ive decided Im creating the Max phone
Im creating a new language called "Max"
and I will have Max stores
does anyone haver 2 mouses connected to their mac?
Back
I learned about Arpanet in school
I am preparing for online driver's exam right now.
08:12
P's?
wooooaaah whah woah
Hemles messager
I paid to get like it early or whatnot
and they gave out betas-_- I did not.. so someone probably took the name "Max".. damnit
Now i dont want it:P
Kinda messed that I paid extra to fund them and promised to get a early name on the service and yet, public beta even if you didn't fund:P woot.. great
anyone know what I'm going to have to do to actually make the light?
Buy the bulb.
And put some electricity.
08:23
I'm just gonna shoot myself lol. everyone is so sarcastic about it
LOL
I don't know what you're talking about lolololol
And don't shoot yourself please!
I need to make a shirt and buy signs and run around town telling people to use my app
LOLLLL
You finished the video?
What'd you think?
Where is @MichaelDautermann
it was good
08:32
So what are you going to do for marketing now?
yes tell me marketing secrets!
@CaptainRedmuff you work with unity... why do point lights not affect 2d sprite with the sprite/diffuse shader but the directional light does affect them?
Nothing, i dont market
wooooowwwwww....
i don't need to make a light swell... i just need to code a shader
What do you do Enrico?
Me?
Yesterday my app was featured in Sydney's newspaper lol.
08:47
How
I posted a viral video.
xD
omg I'm dying bahaha
LOL why?
your reply to max xD
solid gold hahaha
LOL I'm serious hahaha
08:49
How did it go viral
I told my friends about the video.
14k?!?
Woah
Faq you
bahahaha! that old lady in the background at 6 seconds xD
i don't get it she's scanning on but not taking the train?
Was that you filming?
LOLLL MUTCH
Yeah, scan the card, for the cheapest journey, as quick as possible.
Because 8 journey in a week == free subsequent journeys for the rest of the week.
08:54
i don't get it !
Im going to try it Enrico
It may take me longer though
does this scam the transport department?
Oh yeah, I went on Mashable too, lol.
:O Mashable
how
08:55
The 5th paragraph explains why this trick works.
"A group of dedicated tightarses"
xD
The sales after Mashable + SMH article was massive.
LOLOLOLOOLOL
I wanna get on there
Nobody will write about my app
One thing that we'd do is to reply the Mashable writer ASAP. We waited 3-4 hours before replying.
She didn't even link to the iTunes/Android page.
So basically people just recognised the brand from the video, and searched it on the App Store.
I think it would've been even more if the Mashable/SMH article links to the app.
dude .-.
whut
can't you duplicate the card and get a friend to just tap off when you tap on
08:57
Washable should reply to me
lmfao Mutch
You just put Enrico out of business
Yes you can No you can't Mutch.
so um
well
Then charge them like $5 for saving them $20 of trains that week.
Much pay Enrico, you just put him out of business
But in Reddit people are talking about what about if we gather 50 cards or so and then tap it on and off all at the same time.
08:59
why are we trying to break the system?
Because the man sucks

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