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8:00 PM
^ That's where you'd go to make a developer account with FamilySearch, which requires a Google account.
Which is free.
 
Request Access to the sandbox ?
is this like the sandbox at the park?
 
If you're 3 years old, maybe.
If you're actually looking to get something done, then can it with the silly questions.
 
@ShotgunNinja i'm serious. what is the sandbox?
@ShotgunNinja i was wondering if it were a pun or something i needed to understand?
 
A sandbox, in software development terms, is an area where things can be tested against code or information provided by the owning entity; in this case, FamilySearch.
 
@ShotgunNinja i thought it meant like we are a bunch of grown ups but we can act like kids for the moment by hving fun on this website. i'm sorry. but i seriouly thought that. ok. moving on
 
8:03 PM
If you have a web application that pulls data from their website using their API, then you have to access their sandbox in order to test.
@user1690130 Well, normally I'm a more fun-loving guy, but in this case, I just want to help you and get back to my own complete redesign of 6 websites that I'm putting off to help you. Respect thy elders.
 
What does this mean?
"But I can say that we don’t have an API available for searching and retrieving data on our historical records. The APIs we’ve released only deal with data in our tree"
 
@user1690130 Did you get this from someone at FamilySearch?
 
they wrote that back to me with regard to my application
just now
did i write the wrong thing down in the application?
 
then it doesn't look like they give you exposure to historical records.
I don't think you wrote the wrong thing; I just think that their system isn't built to do what you need it to do.
I'm sorry, but I don't know that this can be done, given that limitation.
What purpose does this system serve? Is it a hobby project, for school, or for work?
 
@ShotgunNinja i don't undersatnd that response. i thought they only have hitsorical data
@ShotgunNinja research for a book i want to write
 
8:07 PM
@user1690130 Oh wow, that's rather interesting, actually.
 
@ShotgunNinja what do i say back to the person? i don't understand what they do if they don't do historical work
 
@user1690130 In terms of what data they have, they may have separate pools of information in multiple databases, due to anything from federal privacy laws to simple delays in data entry or difficulties in porting one dataset to another.
 
@ShotgunNinja thank you
@ShotgunNinja by tree, maybe they mean family tree? it is a geneaology website
 
It'd help if I could look at the full sequence of messages.
 
there is not much to it
@ShotgunNinja i asked if we could expedite the review
 
8:10 PM
still, having context behind it is one of the best ways programmers are able to solve problems.
 
@ShotgunNinja He wrote No. and then that blurb: But I can say that we don’t have an API available for searching and retrieving data on our historical records. The APIs we’ve released only deal with data in our tree.
@ShotgunNinja that is in reference to my application
@ShotgunNinja the application asked why you want to apply
@ShotgunNinja it says to descrbe the project
 
@user1690130 Their historical records are probably still in paper form, to be fair. There is a huge amount of information they are only borrowing from public records.
 
@ShotgunNinja i wrote something short, long the lines of the inquiry i posted to this bord
i don't think they are in paper form in they are searchable elsewhere on the website
 
Right; well, they may simply not have the resources to allow other people to search through their whole databases.
Keep in mind, there are a number of reasons why they may not allow it. I'm not privy to the exact reason, but you could probably ask them why the API does not provide access to the full historical records.
The federal government may have limitations on providing historical records for citizens, especially in light of privacy and information protection laws.
The providers of the site may not be comfortable with providing their services to developers like this, for legal (see: Avoiding being sued) or technical (see: No one's written the code just yet) reasons.
 
@ShotgunNinja why would they let you search the website for free but not let it be scraped?
 
8:15 PM
Or, they may not be willing to support the amount of database traffic on their website from the flood of developers.
@user1690130 Have you ever gotten a piece of junk mail from a computer-controlled mailer?
The problem with providing program-access to people's personal records is that you end up with spam everywhere.
 
@ShotgunNinja yes
 
Let's say someone's current address could be found in those historical records, either directly or by association.
Once you have an address, you can start sending mail to it.
 
@ShotgunNinja that is not the issue.
 
@user1690130 Not to you, it isn't; however, it may be the issue to FamilySearch.
 
You can search records via our web client but not programmatically via an API. This thread on our email list explains why: groups.google.com/a/ldsmail.net/forum/#!topic/fsdn/4qot5kJjguk
 
8:18 PM
And since they run the site, they get to say what you can or cannot do with their information.
 
@ShotgunNinja i just posted their response
 
Okay, that makes more sense.
It's a combination of "We're working on it" and "We don't know how to do this legally, just yet".
@ Randy Wilson: "Working on it. There's an internal one FamilySearch uses for it's own client, of course. We're working towards defining an API that works for external clients, and, ideally, as a standard others could use as well."
@ Randy Wilson: "As Gordon points out, content protected by contracts would have appropriate restrictions on them and so forth. But hopefully we will get to a point where there is a standard way to exchange not just tree data but also structured (computer-understandable) record data."
Dunno what else can be done about that, other than keeping in touch with them and being patient.
 
then may i please ask a different and related question?
 
I hope this doesn't do too much to impact the book's authoring/production schedule.
 
also, about scraping
 
8:21 PM
Sure, but I have to leave in a few minutes.
 
@ShotgunNinja potentially yes, potentially no
ancestry.com also provides a wealth of information
 
Ah, ancestry.com.
 
i've scraped othe rstuff from them before
so they should not have this problem
they recently me ther 1940 census publiclly available
 
Right, but as far as I know, you need to pay for access to their services, correct?
 
no, not th 1940 census
bear with me
 
8:23 PM
ok
 
i have a list of about 8 million names
for each person, i know their name, birth year, race, and state (or country) of birth
when possible, i'd like to link each one to ancestry.com
 
my workplace blocks Ancestry.com... I can't look at the page you sent. But carry on.
 
if a unique match may exist
in the 1940 census
it blocks this one too: search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/…
 
@user1690130 For that one, it redirects me to a login screen.
 
for example, the 1940 census offers educational attainment, earnings, marital status, place of residence in both 1940 and 1935
oh
it should be free to make up a log-in
(in case you ever wanted to search someone for your own curiosity int he 1940 census)
 
8:25 PM
I've used Ancestry.com before, but I have to leave for my college courses in 5 minutes, or I'll be late.
 
there will clearly be some cases in which there i no unique match
for exmaple, john smith born in 1915 in new york. i'm sure there are plenty
 
This seems like the kind of job a database query system would be good for.
 
but edward kotziopolous born in iowa in 1913. there probabily will be exactly 1.
 
I mean, the SQL language for database queries is built for stuff like this.
 
when there is exactly 1, i'd like to scrape tht additional information
i've never used sql
is that something that can be done in perl?
is it hard to do?
 
8:28 PM
SQL is usually used from other languages.
Usually, you use a high-level language (Perl, Java, C#, PHP, C++, etc.) and its associated database API for a specific RDBMS (MySQL, Oracle, PostgreSQL, MS-SQL, etc) to connect to a database and issue SQL queries to it, which select ranges of data rows from a database and give them back to you.
 
@ShotgunNinja is this hard to do?
 
It's complicated, but it's how FamilySearch and Ancestry.com work in the background.
Essentially, the information is stored relationally in their databases
 
@ShotgunNinja ancestry should allow me to do this, i believe
 
Their API pulls information based on query parameters, and presents it to the application in the form of structured data.
Then your application takes said data, and does what it needs to do (sorting, searching, selecting, organizing, presenting to the user).
 
@ShotgunNinja their api is not public, i believe
 
8:32 PM
@user1690130 Well, I wish I could help further, but I really need to go. I'm on here almost every day, around this time (though usually not quite this late).
 
@ShotgunNinja ok we will talk again i hope!!
thank you sooo much!!
 
I'll see you around, and I hope to hear more about this book of yours.
 
what is your class?
 
Software Quality Assurance, followed by Computer Graphics.
I'm a software engineering student, 4th year.
 
@ShotgunNinja wow. cool!
 
8:33 PM
Aww shucks. It's a living.
Anyway, I'll catch you around.
 
cya ninja
 
8:45 PM
@Michael the ninja came nd went
like a true ninja
a hero but a ninja
 
haha yep
 
So... anyone else knows mysql?
 
i do
 
what's the difference between identifying and non identifying relationship?.. im designing my database with mysql workbench and i dont understand the difference....
 
dunno
 
8:57 PM
:(
 
@Washu is that whta the ninja told me t olearn?
 
@Washu nooooo washu i just dont
sorry
@user1690130 btw you might want to consider hiring a freelancer. There are many websites out there that let you find one.
 
@Michael i would. but i don't know a good way to do so
 
It sounds like your problem is very involved.
do a google search for "freelance programmer"
 
Heh yeah don't worry
for what do you need a freelance programmer @user1690130?
 
9:00 PM
I know basic SQL, that's about it
 
@Washu scraping
 
isnt that illegal?
 
bye
 
@ShotgunNinja help :(
 
9:10 PM
in class
taking notes
 
haha I can see you writing it...
@ShotgunNinja You look like you're having fun anyway
 
9:26 PM
is there a mod here?
 
Nope.
Hasn't been in a while.
 
Michael is an owner
@ShotgunNinja how did you copy that link?????
 
@user1690130 Here now..
 
It turns out there is no answer to the question
 
@LewsTherin hey...
 
9:37 PM
Oh you mean an actual mod..
@Washu Hi
@user1690130 Check the C++ room.. or ping one of them
 
@LewsTherin they are EVIL in that room
 
Lool
Yeah, a good few can be quite.. dickish :(
 
@LewsTherin Oh hey Lews
 
@LewsTherin to say the least
 
@ShotgunNinja Hiya.. changed your gravatar I see.
 
9:41 PM
I HATE MY JOB
 
@Washu what is your job?
 
god a system is not their freaking notebook....
 
@user1690130 Talk to RMartinhos.. he is decent.
 
@user1690130 developing an app for a manufacturing company
 
@LewsTherin no he is not
@LewsTherin he's one of the worst. cat plus plus is the worst he is second, perhaps
 
9:42 PM
Really? He didn't come across like so..
Well I would believe anything anyone says about Cat++ or DeadMg xD
Maybe I caught RMartinHos in a good mood? mmn
 
@LewsTherin you like the cat?
 
Did you try asking Sehe?
@user1690130 Not really.. he is funny though
 
@LewsTherin i don't think we can be friends
 
Oh and maybe MooingDuck
 
@ShotgunNinja ok explain me... how are you pasting images and pasting links if you are taking notes
 
9:44 PM
I'm good at typing lol
Do you not see how fast my hands move?
I have a high mistake rate, but still, I type for a living.
 
How did you create thaat last diagram?
 
and I correct my mistakes inline.
 
of minimal total cost of software quality
 
Insert Drawing, and experience with the Drawing tools.
 
Damn you are good
 
9:46 PM
Psshhh
I'm okay.
There are better.
 
@ShotgunNinja Yeah, I can either type quickly, and make quite a few mistakes, or slowly and make hardly any
 
@LewsTherin mooing has his moments
 
Yeah, I still make quite a few mistakes per sentence. This one took 3-4.
 
doug is the only legit person i found in that room. some are ok. cat is nuts
 
They're engineers and programmers.
 
9:47 PM
@ShotgunNinja i know plenty of engineers
 
@user1690130 Lol that is how I will describe Cat, you seem to hang there a lot.. so you can decide who is the nicest to ask :)
 
They have very specialized and somewhat esoteric knowledge, and they have strongly-held opinions about things.
 
@LewsTherin do you know the difference between identifying and non identifying relationships in mysql?
 
@ShotgunNinja i wouldn't say that. i would say cat needs some meds
 
@Washu Yeah, I think so.
 
9:48 PM
tell me :(
 
@user1690130 Maybe he does. Maybe you need to use Google before resorting to someone who needs meds, though... ;P
 
@ShotgunNinja i don't talk to cat. cat talks to me
 
lawl
brb
 
@Washu I think an identifying relationship insists on referential integrity. So one table must be identified by a key by another table
@Washu Think of aggregation.. a car cannot exist without a gear..
Or maybe that is a bad example lol
 
heh
 
9:51 PM
Ok OOP inheritance
Nah, doesn't really work as an example
But you get the idea right?
Student
StudentCourse
Course
A row in StudentCourse can only exist if the keys S.ID + C.ID exist in Student and Course respectively... referential integrity yada yada
Brb.. food
 
mmm food
And now, for Computer Graphics.
 
@ShotgunNinja lets see how fast can you type
 
@ShotgunNinja people in the c++ are now claiming the API does not matter
 
@Washu This one is mostly diagrams.
Since its 3D transformations.
@Washu That's my name.
Don't spread it around too much.
Or wear it out.
 
removed
 
10:03 PM
thanks'
 
AHHHH
they are killing me in the C++ room
 
joining
 
Yeah, they're vicious on newbies in there.
I was going easy on you before. Very, very easy.
it almost hurt me, trying to explain stuff to you.
But still... I try to cater to all levels of experience.
 
@ShotgunNinja oh, you are amazing
@ShotgunNinja you were going easy on me and i was so grateful
 
Oh, shush :#3
 
10:11 PM
@ShotgunNinja i realize i am a pain in the ass
 
It's fine. I aim to please.
 
@ShotgunNinja anyways, on my original posting, there was apparently a solution that i am not implementing correctly
 
Oh, okay.
 
@ShotgunNinja gief the link of the notes i accidentally closed it
 
10:15 PM
p.s. i have some jre already downloade!
@Michael did you mention jre before?
 
JRE runs Java, JDK lets you compile Java.
You should have the JDK.
 
And what of JVM?
What is the diff between JRE and JVM?
 
Oh hush, @Lews.
 
Lol
 
The JRE consists of a set of runtime libraries, folder structures, and binaries, one of which is the JVM, which actually runs the Java bytecode.
As I said before.
 
10:18 PM
@ShotgunNinja i want to finish this course :( edx.org/courses/HarvardX/CS50x/2012/info
 
@ShotgunNinja Yes, which is weird.. because some say the JRE is an implementation of the JVM.. confusing stuff.
 
@LewsTherin You mean I got it right?
 
Your definition of JRE is correct yeah
 
cool.
 
Brb
 
10:22 PM
kk
 
@ShotgunNinja have you read of edx.org?
 
@Washu I've not heard of it.
 
@ShotgunNinja edx.org/courses
 
hey everyone!
 
@ShotgunNinja lol
 
10:33 PM
chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/139?m=7522139#7522139 <- That is now true for doing my LA homework :(
 
@Doorknob hiya#
 
hello @LewsTherin
 
Hey folks
 
hello @ShotgunNinja
thought 49ers would win! :(
 
@ShotgunNinja Shotgun have you worked with Servlets?
 
10:39 PM
@LewsTherin Yeah, though right now I mostly work with Struts stuff.
 
Alright, I don't really care about Struts.. for now anyway :) There seems to be a distinction between Servlets and Web application.. can a Servlet execute without a web app?
 
Well, a web application is made up of a series of servlets and pages that get generated from the servlet code.
There are helper systems for servlets to pipe into, but they can also generate webpages entirely on their own.
 
But it much execute in a container.. which is a server right?
Is a Servlet container always a server?
 
they keep calling me troll in theother thread
 
What thread?
 
10:43 PM
you sound terribly incorrect, which is why they think you're just trolling them.
 
ahhhhh
@ShotgunNinja i'm so confused
 
I thought you were trolling at first, then I realized with horror that you're serious.
 
they are going to fast for me
 
@user1690130 What thread?
 
C++
@ShotgunNinja please tell them i'm legit :)
Scott W
17:44
ban this prick
 
10:45 PM
Not a thread.. a chat room
 
Nah, just don't bother them anymore. They're not bound by reason.
 
@ShotgunNinja i need help
they were helping me
and then they got mad at me because i'm slow
 
Yeah.
 
i'm slow that is all
 
You're really, really slow, though...
 
10:46 PM
i'm afraid they will like take away my privilege
 
They're, by contrast, really, really fast.
 
@ShotgunNinja yes i am
i cannot figure out that webste for uploading images
 
See the upload button next to the chat bar ----->
Click that, then click Browse, and find the image.
 
his directions were incomplete
 
@user1690130 It's quite easy.
Press PrtScn, go to imgur.com, press CTRL+V
and you're done
 
10:48 PM
and then what?
 
The image should upload, and then you get a link.
 
add to gallery?
 
No
Just do what I said
and then you're done
 
click start uplod?
 
@user1690130 clearly this is the option. Why even ask?
Try it; if it doesn't work, ask again.
 
If it does work, you're done.
 
well, that was not obvious to me
i had set up n account
 
no you don't
 
Just a friendly piece of advice on StackOverflow chat: Don't be afraid to try shit on your own. We don't like helping people who don't spend some time bashing their heads against stuff. If you can tell us what you've tried, then you're perfectly fine.
 
@Doorknob no i know
 
10:51 PM
I'm out.
Peace.
 
bye @ShotgunNinja !
 
@ShotgunNinja sorry, i tried like 20 things
 
may the lawn gnomes be with you!
...
 
thank you shotgun
 
err I mean bye
 
10:51 PM
everybody was yelling at me too much to type them out
 
@user1690130 That's Lounge<C++> for you.
 
@ShotgunNinja they HATE me
 
@user1690130 You're on Windows XP...
That shit is ancient.
 
yes
 
Part of me wants to laugh at how hysterically you fit the trope of "Non-Computer User Trying To Write Code".
 
10:57 PM
i just don' tknow how to use computers
@ShotgunNinja does that prove that 'm not under age!
i got a 5 on the ap computer exm
 
WE NEVER SAID YOU ARE UNDERAGE
for the 50th time...
 
i know how to program
please help me
all i know is i see people want to ban me
 

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