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14:01
@geisterfurz007 Thanks
Is there any advice you'd give for university?
@AMDG @CrashBandicoot I think that an employer might be impressed if you were involved in an open source project.
@CrashBandicoot in general, SE skills can easily be learned, but personal attitude and stuff is much more difficult
Because it demonstrates that you can code and also work with others.
a good employer would look at your skills, but would value attitude and will much more than SE skills
Effectively, I would hire someone by interning aspiring applicants instead of just random demos. I would sift through the applicants by a few tiers, and have maybe at most 10 aspirants. First, a basic test to understand an applicant's first-hand knowledge of a subject; second, an exercise to see their performance and the quality of their work; and thirdly, internment to see how well they are able to adjust to whatever work environment they would be in, and if they integrate well.
14:03
I feel my skills aren't good enough to be used in an Open Source Project
But I've always thought about doing it
If I were an employer, I would also look for writing skills. If the candidate had a decently well written blog, that would be a plus.
@CrashBandicoot you don't give yourself enough credit. Try it and show yourself and others what you are capable of.
@CrashBandicoot Well, the point is that your skills will improve after working on the project. :P
@AMDG The ones I've looked at seem so difficult and I don't know where to start...
@Michael that's the point of the first basic test.
14:04
Would I just alter a certain part of code?
There is an open source project right here... github.com/JavaChat/OakBot
xD
@CrashBandicoot You could, but it would have to be approved first.
@CrashBandicoot Do not be in indecision. Find what interests you in programming, find that open-source project, and ask to help. If you need to learn more before they allow you on the team, fine, do that, then join.
Or you could look at the list of bugs and try to fix one.
Interesting. Where would I find the bugs list?
Depends on the project..
And to fix said bugs, you have to know the system most of the time. We aren't fixing HelloWorld...
we arent?
Makes sense
A project is an inherently devotional task. You can't work at it from the outside and simply patch it up, i.e. find a random open source project and fix bugs.
14:08
^
So for someone like me, it would be improving simple things?
Whatever you are capable of.
it would probably only improve your skill in learning code
not actually fixing anything :D
If you believe everything is difficult, it will be difficult for you. If we make every problem easy without over-simplifying, then the task becomes relatively simple. There is exactly one Problem, and exactly one Solution for that Problem. Then there are a list of checkpoints required to get from Problem to Solution.
Humans, after all, are terrible multi-taskers. It is best, therefore, that attention be focused to one thing at a time without losing focus.
The above is the reason why I am capable of making a Compiler without having read any books on compiler design. Most people would say, "Making a compiler is difficult!" No. What is difficult is knowing the best approach and making a compiler that is up to par with existing solutions. A compiler is a problem with a list of checkpoints required to get from the problem to the solution.
Problem: how do we convert a series of arbitrarily random String input to Java bytecode?
> and exactly one Solution for that Problem
hmm...
14:18
Solution: analytically compile the String. Problem: how do we do that? Solution: analyze the String in tiers. Problem: how do we do that? Solution: considering that it is a language, and it has a defined grammar, we should analyze it from its smallest constituents individually and collectively, rather than analyzing the whole String input at once. etc.
I'm sticking with "making a compiler is difficult". xD
@Michael nah, not at all
I made one for Java once
Java 7 at the time
especially one that compiles random strings
@Wietlol it can actually be said that using a different Solution as an alternative to the current solution is solving a problem different than the one that you have.
however, I already had the AST made for me
but Java is a pretty "simple" language
14:20
The reason is because a problem attacks only one thing, and only one possible implementation exists for it.
in that its grammar doesnt change
When you change the implementation, even if it produces the same result, you are solving a problem that is within the implementation; just because one piece of code does the same thing faster, does not mean it is another solution. It is the same solution that is also solving a nested problem.
the compiler I make currently is required to be capable of something much more complex
tasks, libraries like antlr are not designed for
these things make it notoriously difficult to get right and not break on 90% of code how people would write it (since they would write it different than me)
@Wietlol if I read all the books on compiler design and algorithms, or omitted such learning and went straight to ANTLR, and then learned how to use ANTLR, and make a Java compiler, I would get the exact same results as this Compiler that I am building, but with less profit of knowledge.
you would learn from great examples
14:24
Besides, could you agree that JCLA is an improvement over other libraries?
my first compiler made full use of antlr, I understood what it does and why, but I wouldnt be happy writing my own
6
A: Dynamic Java Bytecode Manipulation Framework Comparison

AMDGAnalysis of bytecode libraries As I can tell from the answers you got here and ones in the questions that you have looked at, these answers do not formally address the question in the explicit manner you have stated. You asked for a comparison, meanwhile these answers have vaguely stated what on...

now that I needed to write my own, I was tasked to write such a pattern matcher, which is afaik the most difficult task I had in ages
Sounds interesting indeed.
everyone knows a pattern matcher, what they can do and why, but noone wants to write one
14:27
Are you saying everyone is lazy? :P
Hmm this looks like a good book: apress.com/us/book/9781484234105
Zoe
Zoe
Hiya @Michael
Hey @Zoe!
14:39
@Michael I already don't like the cover since it implies a 404, assuming it is referring to the well-known HTTP status code, is something bad. But it simply means "not found". It should have had an error in the 500 range, I like 504 the most as that generally implies things are imploding.
Even the java developers think 404 is stigmatized.
@Gimby The author probably used "404" because it's a well known status code. 😛
You can enter to win a free copy if you post a question for the author here: coderanch.com/f/33/java
@Michael so is 500.
No, I think 404 is more widely known. Many non-programmers even know what it is.
15:22
@Michael HTTP Status codes starting with 4 indicate a client failure.
I agree that should be a 500
hey y'all btw
@CrashBandicoot Don't underestimate it. Other than that, I am pretty bad at advice. I am a horrible student :D
Hey Vogel o/
@geisterfurz007 The difficulty of the course?
University in general
@CrashBandicoot you got "preexisting knowledge"? Don't let lectures slide because they're boring
I'm sure it's going to be a big challenge to do well in it, but I'm just generally worried that I'll struggle majorly
@Vogel612 Yes. I'm also working as a Software Developer
15:37
you're enrolling in CompSci or something else?
Starting soon, yeah
CompSci
at my uni that's more maths and theory than really necessary
How are you finding it?
Ganz nett, wie gesagt, bisschen viel Mathe :)
Depending on the subject, proofs are either undervalued or unnecessarily hard
@Vogel612 lol
15:43
hmm .... and here I thought that was a common "German-ism"
I agree though... Maths 2 was at least kinda related (with matrix transformations and stuff) but Maths 3 was just madness.
Might also be my imagination because we had a university professor lecturing at a college.
I didn't have a third maths.... what was in Maths 3?
Absolutely no idea anymore.
That is at least 2 months ago.
almost 2 years for me...
LinAlg is pretty cool, higher order Calculus is a bit of a pain, though
The general stuff wasn't even that hard (extrapolation) but what that dude did with interpolation was just dark magic...
The main problem was that he was seemingly unable to explain. He just filled one blackboard after another
I mean I got through with 1.7 but I definitely didn't learn anything.
15:52
Sounds scary xD
And then you hear that this coming semester the prof is essentialy throwing with 1.x grades and you wonder how much your bachelor is actually worth...
Another advice: Don't put yourself under pressure too much (especially not during exams).
Hey @Vogel
@Vogel612 Calculus is more of a foreign language than a math
numerics and stochastics are worse, I think
Zoe
Zoe
16:08
@JennaSloan Nah
@Zoe Have you seen calculus?
Zoe
Zoe
Some, yeah. Gonna see a ton more in R1 and R2 though
hellooo guys
~waves
Hey Arif o/
Zoe
Zoe
16:15
Hiya Arif
how are yaaaaaaaaaaaa
miss you guys
whats up
Understanding a Spring application someone else wrote.
And dinner
16:31
@geisterfurz007 great ....
i have been working in spring framework also
2 months already ...
I haven't worked with it at all so yeah... This is going to be tricky
could you share some best warehouse management schema or something if you know already i need
No experience
@geisterfurz007 i haven't also .. spring is great learning new things day by day
Zoe
Zoe
Does Files#createFile also create any non-existing directories?
16:35
/javadoc Files#createFile
Zoe
Zoe
Didn't specify.
@Michael Borked link ^ :)
What happens if you try it out? :D
@Zoe IIUC the only method from Files that creates missing path segments is Files#createDirectories
Zoe
Zoe
Set up a method around that, but it's still more convenient if it did it for me :> Thanks though ^^
17:13
@geisterfurz007 Thanks
17:27
does anyone know if there is a way to run a debug configuration from java code? like start the debugger on some other code with a method call? using eclipse
Heyo, any IntelliJ users in here?
Zoe
Zoe
Yep
17:32
Any ideas why IntelliJ cant find my maven imported libraries. They are showing up in the external libraries section in project explorer.
I tried invalidating the ide cache and restarting
ahh IntelliJ classpath problems?
Not sure, this is only happening when I create new projects or checkout stuff. My existing projects are working ok
I last used intellij about two weeks ago
have you tried updating the local and remote repos, as suggested here?
Ok trying now, they were last updated two days ago
No luck :(
Have you configured a JDK for your project?
17:42
.pom file correct
??
@ThePeskyWabbit considering that the deps show up in the module view, I'd say that's a yes
Zoe
Zoe
Use Gradle
Thanks ^ :D
I use gradle for kotlin, infact let me check those projects are working
Ok they are fine and working along with my old maven java projects
Do you guys use bundled maven 3 in your intellij config?
@Zoe I may or may not be abused enough, but... maven is easier to reason about than Gradle, IME
Zoe
Zoe
17:57
Maven is extremely boilerplate though. a .pom file looks like a complete mess
that's mostly because XML is a really bad format to use for something like that
Zoe
Zoe
Yeah
interestingly maven itself would be namespace aware, but I think nobody ever uses that
actually it wouldn't be that difficult to write a maven-adapter that works off JSON
It might even be less difficult to use gradle :P
Zoe
Zoe
^
18:00
call me beaten by maven, but... I kinda dislike gradle
it tries to do too much at once
@Vogel612 beaten by maven
The bulkiness of maven was probably the single reason I started using gradle.
Id rather have declarative than a dying DSL :P
meh. the DSL is very much alive. It's just that gradle made itself unupdateable through gradle-wrapper
and everybody and their friend hank are putting their own weirdness into gradle as well, soo ...
Zoe
Zoe
Both Gradle and Maven use the same repo styles, so it's gonna be a while before either dies
ant is still alive and kicking out there, soo ....
18:03
@Zoe Which is good because we can play "Bash the others build tool" for a while then.
Zoe
Zoe
@geisterfurz007 Yeah, but Maven's the first to die though :p
@Zoe maven is probably going to be something like the undead zombie that VBA / COBOL / FORTRAN are
though gradle probably will be the same
Zoe
Zoe
Y'mean rarely updated, and the fear of all programmers? :p
VBA is not getting any more updates from MS, that's for sure
not with JS for office
Here's a Quiz builder based on Java I worked on some time back. If someone would like to add suggestions, they are very welcome: github.com/2DSharp/Quizatron
18:06
and there's just too much code out there that's working with / around the weird af quirks of the language
18:22
Hmmm interesting, so if I create a maven project outside of intellij and import it. Then it complains
However if I do it using maven tool inside intellij it works :/
¯_(ツ)_/¯
Thanks for the help and failed conversion to gradle. Time to code the next unicorn idea
18:40
Wow, I hit 3k
ohhh nice
I feels fake though as most of my points comes from a "first" Q&A
the LocalDate to Date thing?
the "price" of being at the bleeding edge, I guess ;)
18:43
It's definitely a prise
I can't spell
Congrats on 3k!
Thanks!
'twas just a matter of time anyways :)
Well, yeah, but I haven't asked/answered anything in years
wow, that's like 10 times the reputation I have :P
18:44
Soon it's 4 years since I started programming Java
Congratulations
August 25th 2014.
I've been programming in Java now for 8 years. How in the world did you get 3k anyways?
I asked and answer how to convert the new LocalDate to SQL Date when Java7 was released.
Well that makes sense.
lol
18:47
@Gemtastic that was Java 7?
Or was it Java8?
I don't even remember that XD
I was pretty sure that it was, yea
I mean I completely missed out on java 9 changes and now java 10 is the default java installation for my distro
My first answer was correct, it was java8
What did I do wrong here though... I can't even remember when I posted this (the date is on there, but meh). stackoverflow.com/questions/43255053/…
and I'm still working with code that's partly pre-java-7
18:48
I've never had -7
I've been stuck with java 5 and 6 a lot
@AMDG why did you drop 1k chars from that question?
referring to rev. 9
@Gemtastic commiserations :(
Um. Because it was so "bad" apparently. At least, in the eyes of the community. Apparently there is nothing I could do to "correct" the question.
Where's the King of SO?
I have a complaint to write: too democratic
@AMDG You don't even have any code showing an attempt at coding and it's asking for resources outside of the site. It's a really bad question
next stop: the Reviewer-Badge for the close-vote queue?
18:51
You can't show code a code example of it if there is no code to post
If you can't show code on a code example the question is off topic
@Gemtastic that's not strictly true
And where on earth does it say that in the "good question" guidelines is the point.
but I'm being nitpicky ;)
@Vogel612 No, but it's a pretty good rule of thumb
18:54
I see much disorder from a general disconsenus on what is a good question and what is not.
meh. there's some clear-cut cases, though.
This question was downvoted more than 7 times, yet it is slowly going up
@AMDG you are stopped before you post being asked if you don't have any code to post though
What?
The downside to community voting is that people will upvote bad questions if they like it or share the question.
18:56
Yes, well the problem in general is a lack of consensus.
@AMDG When you are gonna ask a question and submit it with no code it will stop you and ask you if you have any code
There has to be rules for everything and standards for everything which the whole community adheres to, and there must be someone to uphold those rules.
@Gemstastic that makes no sense. What do you mean "it will stop you"
the StackOverflow community is kinda ... too big for any consensus though :/
@AMDG the site.
well, maybe that wasn't the case back then
There's always room for flexibility
Oh really? When was that implemented? Certainly after I posted this one.
18:57
There's also a badge for removing a question that has more than -3 votes
s/question/post
And upvotes are worth more than downvotes so you can still gain pointe even if the community thinks the question is bad
Alright, well how about this meta question of mine? The whole idea changed mid-question, was flagged as "duplicate", and when I changed the whole thing to reflect the changes, it was left untouched. It wasn't even remotely like the example duplicate given. meta.stackexchange.com/questions/310560/…
@Vogel612 Hm, I suppose I remembered that wrong then?
My brain is completely fried
I'm thiiiis close to giving up programming and just rot
I had something like that yesterday. I was rather very emotional, something between desperation, anger, sadness and pain
19:00
anybody know this, say I type "http://example.com/stuff/file" into the address bar in my chrome browser what gets sent to the isp?
@user3743168 Welcome to the Java Chat, the room for Java enthusiasts! Please use a code snippet tool when posting code snippets. If you have an Android question, you're in the wrong place! And remember: this is not tech support! Thanks for visiting and have fun! :D
i know they say the isp uses dns to resolve to the ip for the server i want
So I binged 11 episodes of ballroom e youkosou and that helped :)
Zoe
Zoe
@user3743168 Everything
@Zoe that is strangely appropriate
19:01
so what if it were https://
I don't know how to verify my skills and I can't remember shit any more. I want to get a remote job but I can't even remember syntax on paper
but the true gravity of that statement is non-obvious
Zoe
Zoe
@user3743168 They'd still see everything, but they'd not be able to see any data that's encrypted.
@user3743168 still everything
Zoe
Zoe
They'd still see the data, but since it's encrypted, it's less
19:02
@Gemtastic when was your last vacation?
I have it now. Not looking forward to going to work on monday
but doesn't https stop them from know which resource I am requesting but not which server I am talking to?
I'm so fried in the head that I accidentally took 5 weeks off even though I counted it three times to be 4
@user3743168 look ... this is networking 101...
But we should probably drop this convo as some real stuff is going on atm
19:04
and shockingly you don't even know as much as me
what you need is a simple tutorial that introduces you to how ISPs work
@user3743168 long story short: maybe
depends on the server you're talking to and the exact modalities of their https setup
I only make UDP jokes. I don't care if you get them.
if you want to dig only there, you should look into HSTS preloading and the HTTP RFC
@Gemtastic is it still so terribly warm up there?
@Vogel612 We finally had rain!
usefully much, or just enough to make it humid, but not cool it down?
19:07
Also I should mention that said meta question had the feature-request tag but it was removed for some reason.
You can tell how hot it's been; today it was 20ºC and people were wearing jackets
@Zoe No, just the domain name. The path is encrypted too.
Zoe
Zoe
@Michael really?
What about GET arguments?
@AMDG it's not asking for a feature. removing feature-request was definitely appropriate
and I really can't follow the line of thought in that question. I'm missing some overarching context
Um. I explicitly had suggested a feature tailored for canonical questions, and especially a "breadcrumbs" at the top of the question.
19:12
Never 👏 put 👏 your 👏 sensitive 👏 parameters 👏 in 👏 the URL
> One idea I have for this might be to have question hierarchies wherein this question has a list of specific questions that answer your specific question. Sortition of questions that are already related is accomplished by labels, and the aside already contains similar questions, but a link to a page containing a list of questions with the same nature as the problem at hand, but answering specific audiences, might be a good approach. A top navigation could also be added, in spite of this, showing a label hierarchy or question hierarchy, for example, in the pattern:
@Gemtastic oh, nice: twitter memes
Zoe
Zoe
@Gemtastic cough I once had a typo in code related to login, that made the login attempt use GET instead of POST ._.
@Vogel612 I've never seen it on twitter
@Zoe Those are part of the path, so yes.
19:13
@Gemtastic I've only seen it there, soo ..
@Zoe Don't use it in post either
Use it in the request body
And then use HTTPS
Anyone can see the URL
766
Q: Are HTTPS URLs encrypted?

Daniel KivatinosAre all URLs encrypted when using TLS/SSL (HTTPS) encryption? I would like to know because I want all URL data to be hidden when using TLS/SSL (HTTPS). If TLS/SSL gives you total URL encryption then I don't have to worry about hiding confidential information from URLs.

Zoe
Zoe
POSt is the request body
@Zoe Not necessarily
IIRC but I dunno shit
Zoe
Zoe
GET is https://google.com/some_get_arg=something, POST is passed as the request body
19:15
Correction: https://google.com/?some_get_arg=something
Post does allow for parameters in the URL but noone does that
looked it up
Except maybe, for me who tried it to learn.
POST puts its parameters in the request body, yes.
by default it does, yes, but you CAN put URL parameters in it too
Zoe
Zoe
@Michael eh, close enough
Yeah, you can.
19:19
POST is very flexible
It's better to think of it this way: GET requests always have empty bodies.
No they don't O.o
Uh yes they do.
If you say so
Don't they?
19:20
I'm probably thinking about the headers
I should note that HTTPS doesn't really help if your ISP puts a properly implemented Proxy / MITM with a valid root certificate in and the site certificate that you're contacting is not on the HSTS preload list
after all they control all your traffic, which means they can rewrite the hell out of it
GET responses have bodies.
HEAD responses do not have bodies.
HTTPS is not really a guarantee for privacy
and it's not intended to be anyways
@Michael request != response
> A payload within a GET request message has no defined semantics;
sending a payload body on a GET request might cause some existing
implementations to reject the request.
Are you sure you're atting the right person?
Maybe that should be directed to me?
you were arguing about request bodies and the statement "GET responses have bodies" is correct, but not really relevant to that discussion
19:28
@Zoe Tell that to the web server. xD
soo ... yes I'm sure I'm atting the right person :)
I'm confused as to where the session cookie goes when you make a get, is that in a header?
@Vogel612 Interesting
@Gemtastic Yeah.
Then the universe makes sense again
Cookies are defined as headers.
19:28
...for now
To think I actually worked with scanning data off of the HTTPS protocols. I know nothing
Socrates would be proud.
Don't worry. We don't know anything either. xD
I don't even know what I learned XD
If you code but never commit it, did it still happen?
Is that git commit or what XD
Anyways, I just wanted to say that...
I can't be on here anymore
It is not conducive to productivity.
And I gotta go to bed. Nighters!
@Gemtastic yes, unless your system fails and dies before you next commit or you overwrite it
Sleep well :)
19:39
Thanks
I'll still be on here from time to time, but I'm going to be here far less often. I've been here all the day long, when really I have no business being here longer than 15 minutes, or however long it takes for me to get help, or to help someone else, so for now, see you guys later! :D
@Gemtastic Night!
@AMDG Aww bye!
@Zoe a get and a post can both have query parameters
a get and a post can both have a body
a http method can be any string
however, conventions say that you shouldnt use a body when doing a get request
19:55
anybody kknow a good irc client for windows 10?
and some applications only allow you to do certain http methods and dont allow you to add a body on a get request
 
2 hours later…
22:13
Hi! I want to store session in NoSQL database? First question is if that a reliable solution. For DAO layer class what class from Shiro it must be extended. You can provide an example with such a solution?
 
2 hours later…
23:59
I forgot to give @Wietlol a proper example for abstract classes in our discussion about abstract classes and interfaces.

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