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2:13 PM
I will just pass some more examples
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A: WooCommerce - list cart item names outside of the product page

Kabengwa Patrick <?php global $woocommerce; $items = $woocommerce->cart->get_cart(); foreach($items as $item => $values) { ?> <? // print_r($item); ?> <? $_product = $values['data']->post; ?> <? echo $_product->post_title; ?> <?php } ?> that above seems to work however i want to...

yeah copied code... but again the intent is to ask another question.
to me also in this case the best thing to do is raise a NAA flag and let the review que handle it, no need for specific mod flag
 
2:52 PM
@PetterFriberg So what's you're point? You've provided an example of plagiarized content that's also not an answer. It is indeed not an answer. It's also plagiarism. I'm not saying you're prohibited from flagging it as NAA, just that it is plagiarism, and it's entirely appropriate to flag it as such. I obviously can't force you to flag plagiarising posts when you see them if you don't care about the plagiarism.
 
3:05 PM
@Servy My point is that according to me on StackOverflow we need intent to call it plagarim
I understand that you and me are not having consensus on this, but to me to use that word on an answer it needs to fit also to benefit
I'm considering to pass a meta on this issue, currently I do not like to flag those answers as plagiarism, I don't think they fit. I will ping you if I pass a question on meta
I think something like this would be a good definition for SO
> The use of ideas, concepts, words, or structures
without appropriately acknowledging the source
to benefit in a setting where originality is expected
and to me all these answer are not having the component of "to benefit"
btw, sorry for getting a bit angry, its just that I put tons off effort to keep SO clean
 
 
1 hour later…
4:45 PM
@PetterFriberg How is posting instances of plagiarism demonstrating that intent is somehow relevant to whether or not something is plagiarized. The definition of the term includes nothing about intent. That you wish the definition were different than it is doesn't change the definition. Note that even your proposed definition still doesn't incorporate intent.
Your proposed definition also doesn't add anything relevant. Any question or answer that a user posts is expected to be their own original content unless explicitly indicated otherwise. The site's terms and conditions require that. The entire site is a context where originality is expected, so the qualification isn't relevant.
And "To benefit" doesn't have anything to do with intent. You can benefit from something without intending to benefit from it, and you can intent to benefit from something without actually benefitting from it. Additionally, whether something is "a benefit" is an opinion. Different people value different things. A post I consider detrimental could be considered beneficial to someone else.
 
My biggest issue is that I do not think we should label them as such and as an action mod flag them etc, the NAA flag is appropriate (and do not reflect you don't care about the plagiarism).
 
And as much as you wish that committing plagiarism like this should be okay, and that it shouldn't merit flagging, the fact remains that this is plagiarism, and it merits flagging as such. That it also merits flagging for other reasons doesn't change that.
 
I'm not sure that on StackOverflow we have a good definition when a post is plagiarism and not; I personally see that very different action should be taken when "intent to benefit" is present (people passing answer as their own) vs. all these NAA answers
@Servy To you feel a meta about this issue could be appropriate?
 
The help center specifically defines the term, so we do in fact have a definition here.
That you wish that the definition was completely different from every major definition used is...odd. It's simply not what the term means. Defining a term to mean something radically different from what everyone else uses the term to mean will simply cause confusion.
Plagiarism is providing someone else's content as your own. It's what the word means.
You may wish that the site determines that certain types of plagarized content are okay and that we shouldn't make them a violation of the rules. That would be a horrible idea in my opinion, and I would fight such a proposed change to make plagiarism acceptable here at all costs, but that's what you're asking. Asking to define a term to mean something completely different from what it actually means makes no sense at all.
 
in wikipedia we have
> representation of them as one's own original work
not sure copy part, then adding "Thanks that's great" would fit that definition
@Servy I have seen in this chat that is not only me having an issue with defining these NAA answer as plagiarism and treating them as such, it maybe odd, but still I have a feeling that we need some common ground on how to act (the definition in help center is not really useful)
Help center also have
> posting the work of others with no indication that it is not your own
hence is the thanks MrX enough?, you would say no since under is defined exactly what is needed but I feel more yes and that it's better to treat it as an NAA answer
 
5:03 PM
@PetterFriberg How is saying, "thanks" an indication that the content is not their own? Thanking someone doesn't mean that the entirety of the post preceding it was their original work.
 
also in this to me it's clear that the code is not his
 
And yet the author has provided no indication that the content is not theirs
you simply guessed that it wasn't theirs
and were able to figure out that it wasn't theirs by finding the original source
 
Exactly.
 
That you figured out that it's not their original work despite them providing no indication that it is not their original work is precisely how you know that it is plagiarism.
 
and my guts tell me flag NAA do not flag it for moderator
 
5:08 PM
and it is Not An Answer, and you can flag it for that reason. And it's also plagiarism and merits flagging for that reason.
A post can merit flagging for multiple reasons.
That you break one rule doesn't prohibit you from breaking others, or shield you from the consequences of breaking others either.
 
sure but I'm actually not convinced that we need to pass this to moderators
 
If the post had included profanities about your mother would you say that it shouldn't' be flagged as offensive because it's not an answer?
 
sure, infact that is my worries..
 
That you personally don't think moderators should be informed of instances of plagiarism doesn't change the fact that this is plagiarism, that plagiarism is against the rules, and that plagiarism merits flagging.
Like I said before, I can't force you to flag the posts; you're not obligated to flag plagiarism when you see it, just like you're not obligated to flag anything when you see any rule violation. But the post does plagiarise content, and that is worthy of a flag. Your assertion that other people can't flag a post that is plagiarising content is false. They can, and they should, even if you refuse to.
You do have the right to not care about plagiarism, but you don't have the ability to prohibit others from doing so.
 
ooh I do not want to prohibit anyone I want to find common grounds.
 
5:15 PM
Yet you're saying in the meta question that people shouldn't be flagging the instance of plagiarism as plagiarism, even though it's a violation of the rules that merits flagging.
 
we flags multiple post like these as NAA and I my impression was that we should not consider them as plag. but let the review queue handle'em, hence to not send these thanks answer to the moderator queue. I'm actually surprised that you belive that we should have these harder rules
@Servy I need to commute home and maybe it's better that I come up with another meta question about this issue, if your harder line on how to handle these post has community consensus I have no problem sending'em all to the moderator queue
 
I've told you like twenty times that the post isn't an answer, and if you want to flag it as Not An Answer that's fine, because it isn't one. But the post is plagiarism. We shouldn't not consider it plagiarism because it is plagiarism. It meets the definition of the term. It is a violation of the rules. That it also violates another rule doesn't absolve it of its plagiarism. I'm not sure why you'd be surprised that I'd support flagging plagiarism as plagiarism.
 
Servy I want to do what the community expects me to do and I'm not really sure that the community have consensus on this issue
 
 
4 hours later…
9:27 PM
I have posted a question on meta to search for community consensus on this issue
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Q: When is an answer plagiarism and should be flagged for moderator attention?

Petter FribergThis question is inspired after a long discussion, where no consensus was achieved but nicely summarized by eis in this chat message According to Wikipedia, "The idea [of plagiarism] remains problematic with unclear definitions and unclear rules.", and they give several definitions of which ...

FYI: @Servy, @eis, @BillWoodger, @barbecue, @Tunaki, @BoltClock
Feel free to answer but lets hope we can avoid another long comment thread and sorry for the mass ping it just seemed correct to inform you all.
 

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