last day (23 days later) » 

1:44 PM
@Undo Since apparently these people are only satisfied by a mod response
can you tell the guys in Androidians to avoid speaking Hindi in chat
 
They don't HAVE to.
Stop trying to force them to speak english.
 
Their room can get permanently frozen with no further explaination if they do
 
That's their problem
 
Its an english only chat
 
Not your problem
 
1:46 PM
This is a community moderated platform
Its my problem now
 
If you feel you must flag, then flag.
 
Sam
@Magisch They've already been bashed enough. If they choose to continue, it's their choice.
 
They've had plenty of warning.
 
@Magisch That is if people are flagging things and we cannot tell how to handle the flags. As long as no one is flagging leave them alone.
 
@Cerbrus yeah, they do
 
1:46 PM
but now the problem is bleeding over here, so now it's going to be my problem. My boot is in the corner.
 
I was trying to explain it
to give them the reason why its in their interest to not speak hindi in chat
 
@Undo Where does it say they can't use any other language, then?
 
but the ROs are uncooperative
 
@Magisch You're not doing a very good job at that, to be honest.
Kinda "bad cop"
You know what I mean?
 
Shogs meta answer clearly says that any non english tolerating room is subject to locking without further justification
Im a grumpy german
 
1:48 PM
More directly, does this mean that moderators should freeze/delete non-English rooms on sight? I'd be happy with that. — Undo ♦ 2 days ago
Warn if you wish, @undo, but yes freeze or delete if warning isn't given or heeded. — Shog9 ♦ 2 days ago
^ fairly clear
 
Then freeze it already.
 
Alright
 
They've had their warnings
 
they have several times insisted that they want to continue non english talk
after being told this
repedeatly.
 
in Androidians(English Only), 3 mins ago, by Anshul Tyagi
use Google translator
in Androidians(English Only), 2 mins ago, by Anshul Tyagi
and check if its offensive or not
(That's an RO)
 
1:49 PM
@Magisch The proper way to handle this after your warning falls on deaf ears is to mod flag and let them handle it. We can;t do anything here.
 
38 messages moved from SO Close Vote Reviewers
 
Thats why I pinged undo
 
1 message moved from SO Close Vote Reviewers
 
@Magisch don't ping mods in the room for mod actions
 
@NathanOliver This.
We're not moderators. We can't enforce anything. We shouldn't try to get them to comply.
 
1 message moved from SO Close Vote Reviewers
 
Thats better
I was avoiding having to involve a mod
since that will undoubtedly lead to room freezing
 
Don 't, next time.
They aren't interested in what we say
 
@Magisch But that is what you have to do. If you cannot understand it as it is not in english then mod flag and walk away. They will handle it. We can't do anything about it in the room and we do not ping mods in the room to do mod actions. There are proper channels to go through.
 
@NathanOliver I'm assuming good faith in all users
Even those who speak broken english and insult me
I was hoping I could explain to them why its not worth it
 
1:54 PM
does that mean Magisch might like me?
 
Its evident I failed. Doesn't mean I won't try the explaining things instead of nuking from orbit in the future
 
And that is what the mod flag is for. Let the mods talk to them. I doubt they will freeze the room with 0 interation
 
@Magisch: I'd stop assuming good faith, when it gets to the point of them insulting you :P
 
More directly, does this mean that moderators should freeze/delete non-English rooms on sight? I'd be happy with that. — Undo ♦ 2 days ago
Warn if you wish, @undo, but yes freeze or delete if warning isn't given or heeded. — Shog9 ♦ 2 days ago
That means yes
All non english rooms are subject to deletion without warning by mods if they so choose
 
in Androidians(English Only), 14 secs ago, by PankajSharma
room mode changed to Gallery: anyone may enter, but only approved users can talk
 
1:56 PM
Yeah, I have very, very little patience for petty chat issues.
 
Sam
Lol
 
Well the RO told me to go **** myself
After your message, undo
 
yeah, I saw.
 
If thats not a final straw Idk what is
 
I'm curious if I'd get access
 
1:56 PM
It is for me at least
 
@Magisch You mean the user that is suspended?
 
Aye
 
@Cerbrus They can put it into gallery mode if they want, I don't care.
 
I'd still like this to be frozen, since its evident they give no consideration to site rules and wont in future
 
@Undo Of course they can.
 
1:57 PM
But im going to continue flagging non english discussion where I cant make out if its offensive or not in there
 
It's just a surefire way to prevent new users from joining
 
@Magisch Sure, although it'd be a good idea to not go transcript-flagging.
 
OH, room owners are being removed
Is this a Coup?
 
shrug
 
As a rule of thumb I dont flag anything older then a day
flagging very old things kinda defeats the purpose of flags
I would quickly exhaust the patience of mods and 10kers alike if I went flagging all discussions in that room since up to friday it used to be pretty much hindi only
 
2:00 PM
Welcome TLM
 
@Magisch I don't think you're in the right here, not morally
 
user3956566
such a sheep, someone posts a link and I follow it.
 
Maybe not
 
@AndrasDeak: that discussion moved to the room I just linked.
 
but I asked on meta and got an authoratative answer of policy from shog
 
2:01 PM
^ thanks
 
@Cerbrus oooh, sorry, thanks
hey
 
6 messages moved from SO Close Vote Reviewers
 
Be careful @Yvette someone might shear you
 
@DavidPostill And thats entirely the point. Under current guidance, I could flag anything not in english, and people would validate it. I could close a chatroom because I felt like it. Maybe having that power isn't such a good idea. — Magisch May 20 at 8:29
 
user3956566
@gunr2171 oh no! this is going to be back and forth moving messages, I can see it now
 
2:02 PM
and now @Magisch you're doing exactly that
 
Actually no
 
@Cerbrus What about a room where the vast majority of the conversation is in English, but occasional posts are not? A drive by troll could flag someone saying good morning in French for example, or some Unicode foreign language text which is being technically discussed. — DavidPostill May 20 at 8:28
^ being trollish, that is
 
Im feeding non-english posts through google translate
 
user3956566
@Magisch hope not O>O
 
and the ones that come out as complete nonsense or not at all I flag
 
2:02 PM
@Magisch in every chat room?
 
or offensive stuff obviously
This is the only non english discussion I found in the major ones today
I dont flag things older then a day
 
@Yvette Yes, this will probably happen, this is just an escalated discussion. Not sure if you really want to see this
 
*than
 
So are you going to start flagging some of the french we get in the room @Magisch?
3
 
More directly, does this mean that moderators should freeze/delete non-English rooms on sight? I'd be happy with that. — Undo ♦ 2 days ago
Warn if you wish, @undo, but yes freeze or delete if warning isn't given or heeded. — Shog9 ♦ 2 days ago
 
user3956566
2:03 PM
@Ferrybig no, I left and you pinged me back :D
 
so, pro-actively looking for stuff to flag on a technical basis, where you wouldn't even look otherwise:D
 
Assuming I can't decipher the intent at all
maybe
 
@Magisch this comes to mind
I don't think you're an asshole, but similar ambivalence between rules and moral high ground
 
I flagged one post
Literally one
Well two but the second one was a RO telling me to go **** myself
 
@Magisch that's fine
(the latter)
 
2:05 PM
Then I tried to tell them that they should avoid non english discussions
that was my fault
 
I don't think flagging anything unclear assumes good will, which everybody should
 
That flagging is fine, imo. Just, try to see when a room doesn't want your help, don't try to force them.
 
I assumed reason would win
Maybe I did a poor job of explaining it
 
Aye
 
it's hard to stay calm and objective when an outsider jumps in and flags something that's not flaggable (because you understand what it is, and it's not flaggable)
without trying to find out what the message is
 
2:06 PM
I thought they would prefer a warning over a modflag since a modflag makes the room instantly subject to deletion
 
@AndrasDeak true
 
and the fact that you've "warned them earlier" is again a hostile gesture
 
Warn if you wish, @undo, but yes freeze or delete if warning isn't given or heeded. — Shog9 ♦ 2 days ago
 
You're in the right, but who are you to warn them?
 
I tried to run it through google translate and it came out as completly garbled nonsense
 
2:06 PM
@NathanOliver Looks like "plop" will also be flagged :D
 
all other non english messages in there came out fine, so I didn#t flag them
 
@Magisch lots of stuff does
 
I know
 
Just custom-flag stuff if a room is having prolonged or frequent conversations in not-English.
 
My main issue is you flagging (a) unclear things in (b) rooms you wouldn't be otherwise
 
2:07 PM
@Magisch Can you quote the exact words or atleat a part of it (that gave you the garbled results)?
 
More directly, does this mean that moderators should freeze/delete non-English rooms on sight? I'd be happy with that. — Undo ♦ 2 days ago
Warn if you wish, @undo, but yes freeze or delete if warning isn't given or heeded. — Shog9 ♦ 2 days ago
 
(a) As I've said, I'm not talking about rules. (b) those are a CM's guidelines given to a mod
 
@BhargavRao Yep. This is a very slippery slope. If you can't understand it so what. As long as it is not flagged then leave them be. We only need to care when someone feels offended/spam
 
if Undo went in warning them, we wouldn't be having this discussion
 
@NathanOliver Shog directly disagrees
Shog is erring on the side of "Then screw all non english discussion alltogether"
 
2:08 PM
@NathanOliver Exactly. I see this as childishness.
 
@NathanOliver "So this is the lesser evil. It's an English website, expecting English in chat is not unreasonable." - Shog (link)
 
@Magisch I believe this is similar to digging through old questions on the main site and closing all the now-off-topic stuff as off-topic, regardless of their activity, harm and interest
 
@Magisch That is when the question of moderation is brought up. If we cannot moderate then it needs to be shut down. If we do not need to moderate it(no flags) then nothing needs to be done. You are making a mountain out of a mole hill.
 
They are having their own convo, If anyone is upset with it. Let them flag. But to deliberately go to a room with the intention of searching for flaggable posts? That's awkward indeed
 
Technically that's correct, but it will be frowned upon, and anybody with clear judgement will tell you that you should find another hobby.
 
user3956566
2:10 PM
@BhargavRao sensible comment
 
Well
 
I have no issues with people going through rooms flagging stuff if it's a current pattern. If it happened a week ago, it doesn't need to be flagged.
 
by that logic no chatroom needs to be policed for offensive content when there is nobody bothered by it
and that has been confirmed to be a false assumption by SE employees three times before
 
This is really no different than searching for posts that need to be closed.
 
@Magisch FWIW I don't think that offensive content that doesn't offend anyone should be flagged
 
2:11 PM
This is like the "If you don't want to answer it, don't answer it. Why vote to close?" that people use 10 times a day at least
 
@Magisch But you have no idea if it is offensive or not. Not understandable is not a flag option.
 
According to shog, it is
 
When it comes to trying to decide after it was flagged.
 
 
If it isn't flagged then no one has a problem with it
 
2:12 PM
^ very easy. Let moderators deal with it.
 
Fair enough
 
That is what I have said since the start
 
I only flagged 1 post total anyway
 
@Undo Exactly.
waffles
 
@Undo isn't that only for RO's?
 
2:13 PM
@gunr2171 I don't think so?
 
wait
nvm
 
No, it's available for everyone
 
its just in a different interface
 
@gunr2171 It's for anyone. Flag a message
 
I see it here so it is for everyone
 
2:14 PM
flagging a message just asks me "is this something you want to flag, yes/no"
 
this comes to mind:
"I believe that a custom moderator flag would be appropriate in this situation, even if it does get declined." And people wonder why we have 200+ custom flags in the queue at any given time, why their custom flags seem to take days or weeks to process... — BoltClock ♦ May 18 at 14:46
 
Is this offensive? ... i.stack.imgur.com/XXC6T.png
 
@BhargavRao No it isn't.
 
oh durp, never mind. figured it out
 
Sam
2:14 PM
@gunr2171 "flag for moderator"
 
@Sam yep, rather than the flag icon
 
Ask like that and confirm. Google translate gives garbage results for the translation of my name
 
thanks
 
Sam
Yup
 
I got played :(
 
2:15 PM
Anyway, probably not a good idea to go around warning these people on your own, but I have no issues with people taking it upon themselves to find current, active rooms having conversations in non-English.
 
@Tunaki Yep, I know, Just to show an example to @Magisch :-)
 
@Undo I was under the assumption that if I flagged that for mod, the room would be deleted rather instantly
I wanted to not do that
 
@Magisch Maybe, depends on the mod you get and the mood they're in.
 
Since most people don't live on the bleeding edge of meta and can't know these things completly yet
 
If you get me, I tend to be fairly soft and warn people first.
 
2:17 PM
@Undo Maybe you could propose that process as official for non english discussions then
 
Don't really need an official process unless we're doing these in bulk, which we aren't yet
 
Because currently, one could reasonably assume that you can just go on a flagging spree
 
AFAIK there are single-digit numbers of these rooms.
And few enough people flagging that they can be handed on a case-by-case basis. Don't see a reason to process-ify it yet.
 
@Magisch most people don't go on a flagging spree
 
@Undo agreed
 
2:19 PM
this is so obscure that only somebody with the meta question about the protocol would do that
oops that just happened;)
 
People going on a flagging spree usually end up banned.
 
well, gotta go now
but anyway, I've said all I think about the issue
 
@AndrasDeak Ciao Bye
 
@AndrasDeak almost at the bridge?
 
@BhargavRao \o
@Tunaki yeah I've got my concrete shoes on:P
 
2:21 PM
Anyways
What a pot of water over nothing
So @Undo, assuming I find another room who currently has a conversation string going in another language
should I modflag that
 
Sure, if it's substantial
 
Im not going to trawl rooms looking for this, but I like checking out popular rooms when boredom strikes me waiting for a meeting, which is how I came across androidians again
 
If it's two people jokingly exchanging French or something over single-digit messages, then meh. If it's obvious that the room is non-English, then I definitely want a flag.
 
What if the room is obviously mixed
 
Flag
 
2:23 PM
if it's a pattern, I'd lean toward flagging
 
^
 
One of those "know it when you see it" things. There likely won't be much middle ground.
 
Im a grumpy german
 
We noticed.
:D
 
Im notorious for not being aware of compromise, middle ground, or sarcasm
 
2:25 PM
I'm sure you're clever enough to identify a incident versus a pattern of non-english chat.
 
^ that
 
Any way, I'm off o/
 
sure
 
Same here, afk for a while
 
It's good news that no one has flagged any of our messages in Python room, as we speak in Salad ;)
Anyway, I'm out of this too.
 
 
2 hours later…
4:44 PM
I just read the last bit in that indian room. That Rahul is basically the whole problem
 
5:03 PM
Madara: Users tried talking to them in that indian room.
That didn't go very well
 
@Cerbrus I know
@Cerbrus Literally every room has one of them, or more.
 
It's a shame, really.
A few "screw the rules" users ruined that room
Oh, and the gallery mode doesn't help
 
Personally
I think that they will keep still for a couple days and then start again
 
@Cerbrus Yeah, I'm still trying to understand what the hell happened
@Magisch They always do.
Then we freeze, then they cry.
 
and at that point
 
5:06 PM
I've been to that movie already. It always ends the same.
 
I will have no remorse modflagging
and a mod will have no remorse shutting that room down forever
Im naive
 
@MadaraUchiha: I assume you read down from here? chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/30711305#30711305
 
I tried to help and explain how to prevent this
It didn't work out
 
There are 2 or 3 users that plainly refuse to listen
 
@Cerbrus Yeah, soon after a single RO literally took over the room and locked it down
 
5:07 PM
Aye
Rahul used to be one of the Room Owners as well
He was, from what I can tell, least cooperative.
 
He told me to go ***** myself
 
That
 
Can't get any less cooperative
 
That looks like a good idea, @MadaraUchiha. Anshul seems level-headed.
 
Right, time to leave the office.
 
5:10 PM
It was basicly the only option
 
Fingers crossed, eh? :P
 
you can't have hostile room owners
Maybe they'll make it
 
Hm, maybe my message that was starred should be unstarred: chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/30658922#30658922 (cc @MadaraUchiha)
 
 
2 hours later…
6:55 PM
This sounds like a threat
flag worthy?
 
> Google Übersetzer
 
This translates to "There are also people who will pay for what he was crazy"
 
@Kyll The Germans are coming!
 
In English it means "put dispenser here"
 
@Adriaan Oh no, not the Germans! cc @rene
 
6:57 PM
This german respects the fact that the site is in english
 
@Magisch I flag all things non-English, including comments. Of course, that doesn't mean everyone has to
 
@Magisch let's not get into "what constitutes as a chat flag" here. I think we've had enough of that for a while.
 
@Magisch Lol, are you sure?
 
I mean a mod flag
personal threats are illegal in my country
 
That is not a personal threat
 
6:58 PM
@Magisch I have no idea. It could mean anything.
 
Is this something you found in chat? If so lets not discuss it. We do not want to moderate chat
 
@NathanOliver Can you move the convo here? chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/112695/…
> pagal ho gya h kya vaha pe bhi ese log rahenge
 
18 messages moved from SO Close Vote Reviewers
 
This means that "people like him will be there everywhere" @Magisch
Please don't flag based on Google Translate.
5
 
7:31 PM
@BhargavRao The alternative to that is just flagging all non english discussion period
 
I can't be more clear than what @Undo has already mentioned.
I'll just move on.
 

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