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12:42 AM
 
1:09 AM
> Could pool unconfined using a static PM on PHP-FPM be reached?
Apparently yes?
 
I don't even know how to play pool
 
 
2 hours later…
2:49 AM
@Trowski Calling start is annoying. Based on examples I've seen in Ruby, at least, many fibers are going to start immediately.
I think a helper like Fiber::new($callable, ...$args) might be in order.
Imagine if you were forced to call $iterator->rewind() before each for-each loop; that's kind of the same level of pain I feel.
 
@LeviMorrison I think I've worked with Generators too much, having to call current() to "start" the generator made it feel natural.
Ruby has to call resume to start the fiber, so it's essentially the same.
 
@Trowski I don't think that's true; I'll check though.
I think you are right, actually.
 
The problem with Fiber::new() is the initial value from Fiber::suspend() has nowhere to go.
 
True, I suppose. I think the fact that most of the examples I'm seeing (and thinking of writing myself) don't actually communicate with values.
They are like state machines.
 
That doesn't surprise me. That's how Amp uses fibers too.
We considered a reduced API, but the communication channel provides flexibility without hindering other uses.
 
3:23 AM
@Dharman Because master is (was?) broken, if something completely unrelated to your PR brakes just ignore it
 
 
4 hours later…
7:32 AM
well ... php chose a poison ...
 
@LeviMorrison We currently need that for top-level await, but maybe it can also be implemented differently. I don't care too much about the API, as almost nobody will ever use it directly.
@Trowski That's not entirely true, we use the values in await.
 
in a way, it's a relief that I don't have to work on parallel anymore ... the two will never co-exist, so there's no point going further ... even if I put the man hours in to make parallel and fibers really compatible, I would never tell anyone to deploy it, it's too complicated ...
in another way, this really feels like a mistake ... a limitation, an improvement to something people can already do at the cost of a feature they don't and now can't ...
 
8:34 AM
@JoeWatkins Please continue working on parallel, they should co-exist.
 
they can't, for parallels model to be compatible the primitives it uses would have to be fiber aware and compatible with fibers too ...
that's not a thing I'm going to write, nor would I ever tell anyone to deploy it, it's far too difficult to model how a program would actually execute in this chaotic world ... PHP is supposed to be simple ...
 
But it's too much fun to throw away...
https://youtu.be/KJMPdtf7BDs
2
 
I've probably convinced about the same number of people of the value of threads as I have spent years working on it, and since that's as near as makes no difference ten, it isn't worth another big chunk of my spare time
 
8:58 AM
@JoeWatkins I'm used to amphp/parallel and @Trowski did all the internals, need to have a look at the primitives TBH.
 
9:13 AM
I just discovered today that the government of the country I live in (note, not my government, nor my country) blocks change.org
of all the things to block.
 
 
1 hour later…
10:19 AM
@JoeWatkins Dunno, I'm using ext/parallel with amp for a private project and it works great - please continue supporting it
 
11:16 AM
is_null is not detecting nulls in array created via explode ・ Strings related ・ #80902
 
@JoeWatkins colour me clueless about the details, abut wouldn't that be niklas and aaron's task to make fibers compatible with ZTS builds and then it should work with parallel? it ssomething we haven't discussed yet indeed with zts and fibers
 
@Jeeves @cmb quick with the responses as ever :P
 
12:02 PM
@Trowski Was the fiber RFC for including the fiber ext or for inclusion into core (as in Zend)?
 
@Sara Would you mind if I take care of PHP 8.0.5 as well? The company is switching computers, so I want to make sure that the new one has everything that I need to release PHP :)
 
12:23 PM
morns
 
1:02 PM
@Tiffany there have been a couple of times where I have seen jeeves post the bug, click it, immediately write a response, and by the time I click "submit" @cmb has already responded with 4x more text
though also that bug lol
 
1:51 PM
@JoeWatkins Our cruel, APIs. Our RFC, defies. One extension, could kill, and fibers, it willlll. ... okay here i've ran out of ability to match words to Poison.
 
2:04 PM
@MarkR What's the status on fibers, there have been some discussions at the channel but I didn't really follow
 
@ln-s The RFC was accepted.
 
ok so that's it ?
 
Pretty much, baring any unexpected implementation issues. (I think?) it will be marked experimental and may change in future versions
 
So 8.2 8.3 for it to be stable I suppose
 
I think we'll see some bleeding edge developers try it out in 8.1 and I certainly wouldn't be shocked if the API changed some, but they seem confident in it.
 
2:11 PM
Would have personally liked to have async function blah
Someone told me the other day "if you want to lure in more developers to the language, use what they are already familiar with"
 
Morning!
 
Well most developers in the PHP space are likely more familiar with JS, which is an different model.
 
opcache with file_cache as secondary segfaults php-fpm ・ opcache ・ #80903
 
exactly
 
Only if what they're familiar with is actually good.
Lots of enterprise developers were familiar with COBOL. That doesn't make it a good model to base your new language on. :-)
 
2:15 PM
"Javascript is the only language with a more messed up type system than PHP" some dude here said it, I agree
I was only stating syntax familiarity, not what the core should do behind the curtains
 
Remember, it took Javascript 4 iterations to build up to its current async/await keywords.
 
@kelunik Oh right, I was thinking of the prior version where we used references for the promise value. It's still only one-way communication.
 
PHP is also iterating, and will likely end up in a different place that's better for a mixed sync/async environment.
 
@Crell Don't think it's a bad thing to do iterations :)
 
Yes, that's my point. :-)
 
2:18 PM
Agreed 100%
 
I'd prefer if the current RFC had gone one level further, but it doesn't need to go 4 levels further yet. Eventually I'd like to see all 4 levels by PHP 9.
 
@Trowski one and the other
 
oof, 9 seems like 3 to 5 years away
 
@Crell What's the next level?
 
I would think about adding some syntax sugar, everything can remain the same
@kelunik async function blah() {}
 
2:19 PM
@ln-s No :D
 
The argument being: Get more people on board PHP who are familiar with node
 
@kelunik I fully expect most people to look at that code and instantly go "WTF?"
 
@Trowski Fibers or async syntax ?
 
@Trowski Definitely, I think the way I did it in Suspension is better
 
@NikiC I intended to include it in Zend as I thought it would need to be to hook into the error handler stack, etc. There's one or two functions I copied from Zend in the ext I wouldn't need to duplicate then.
@kelunik Yes, it's much more obvious there because it's not conflated with the promise.
@ln-s The weird "magic" we did in the function @kelunik linked to that does top-level await in Amp.
 
2:25 PM
Ah I see
function async(callable $callback, ...$args): Promise
means that I need to call async(function here, args here), was wondering if it could be parsed by the engine by just stating async function myfunc(){} But I suppose no like kellunik said
 
@ln-s The engine would use async on the call side instead, not in the definition.
@Trowski I guess async / await aren't that clever, as they'll break once we introduce keywords.
 
I don't know anything about the core since I have just started to get interested in it, so I will just assume it would be a lot of work to do it the way I said :)
 
@ln-s The way you said it is how it works in JS without fibers, where every async function returns a promise.
 
Question is: Can the same syntax be used but using fibers in the background, some sort of syntax candy
 
@kelunik Why's that?
 
2:34 PM
I'd just like to give them kids the crack cocaine they came for lol
 
@Trowski Because async is a keyword and would be interpreted as such instead of the function.
 
Oh, yes, of course :P
Well, we'll just have to have a v4 I guess.
Actually, if we break it up like we're considering, the promise library would become unnecessary.
 
Alright, nerds. We have PLENTY of newbie RM volunteers, but I'mma need one of you veterans to step the fuck up and mentor some bitches.
If it helps, you can mentor two and never have to actually do any of the releases yourself.
 
@Sara What needs to be done ?
Build releases ?
 
The short and slightly incomplete answer is: github.com/php/php-src/blob/master/docs/release-process.md
 
2:50 PM
Would do it but I'm affraid to commit to something I will not be able to deliver due to shitloads of work
 
That's a healthy bit of restraint. :)
Three years is a lot of time.
Well, 3.5 counting the pre-release period
 
Swear to god I would throw everything away to become a core developer and to get to know this shit but once you are in the hamster wheel it's difficult
But that process also applies to RC's ? Those are not every 3 years ?
 
For most stuff related to PHP development, there's no commitment. I've ducked out of internals for years at a time over the decades.
The 3 year span is the support window. The build frequency is every other week.
 
right
 
For GA builds, it's RC - two weeks - GA - two weeks - RC - etc...
And in pre-release it's just alpha1 - two weeks - alpha2 - two weeks - alpha3 - two weeks - beta1 - two weeks - ... etc...
 
3:01 PM
every two weeks then
 
Yes, BUT you have a co-RM, so the typical cadence is: RC - two weeks - GA - six weeks - RC - two weeks - GA - six weeks, etc...
Since we typically alternate who "owns" a point release.
 
@NikiC I'm confused, it seems like the first member of a union of composite types which is a single class "disappears", I imagine I'm missing something as I suspect it try's to point the class as the type pointer payload when it's already a list? github.com/Girgias/php-src/pull/8/files
 
Thing is, I'm doing 16 to 18 hours daily mostly (thinking about early retirement) and during weekends family demands my presence
If I tell my wife "Hey gotta learn/do dat release process" she will send me to fuck off, granted
 
@ln-s Right. Which is why you shouldn't push yourself into more obligations. Also we have ample volunteers, so don't feel bad about not stepping up. What my call earlier was for is people who've done the RM process before, so they can mentor the newbie(s).
 
yeah the problem is I really really want to contribute to something that has given me so much, I feel guilty
 
3:05 PM
I may end up guilting @RemiCollet into it if nobody else volunteers.
 
@Girgias I have no idea what you just said there :D
 
@ln-s Work on the manual! It's on git now so it's easier than ever to give back according to your own schedule!
 
If you have a union with a single class, it's stored directly rather than in a type list
 
Could probably do great with Spanish translation
 
I'd like to do more amateur radio stuff, but don't want to commit to anything major, so I volunteer as a licensing examiner which I can step into and out of at will.
 
3:07 PM
@Sara Repo ?
@Sara Hacker one RF ?
Damn
 
¡Por supuesto!
 
@NikiC Right, okay so I'm trying to add support for just A&B|C, so when I hit an intersection type, which is already a list, I just add it to the list. But it looks like it compiles just to A&B and the "C" get's lost, same with A&B|C|D where... C get's lost but D is present
Which I imagine is because it is stored directly
But I'm confused as to why it's still doing that
 
@ln-s I prefer working on analog builds. Old school. None of this SDR shit.
((all due respect to the value and facility of SDRs))
 
Had a Yaesu FT-23R back in the day it was fun, found a radio aficionados group there it was really cool
 
Nice. What's your call? I'm W9SMG
 
3:09 PM
I've always wondered how to decode the data signals, I would guess that 90% of them are not encrypted, or how would you even detect which kind of signal / data is it
@Sara I was a complete pirate ...
 
If it's Amateur Radio stuff, then the FCC at least (probably most others due to ITU rules) forids "obscuring the meaning of any message".
 
Stole the handy from my father and did mischievous things but don't tell anyone, but hey I learnt about Q code
 
e.g. Non-encrypted.
Yeah... the airwaves are.... not well policed.
 
Been lurking into Web SDR's lately, found some morse signals, was able to decode those, that's simple
 
The only pirates that really get sanctioned are the ones who are being major dicks about it.
That said: Obey the law, kids.
 
3:11 PM
but I also hear data signals from time to time and I have no idea what they are
 
But yeah, decoding just means knowing what kind of signal you're getting and applying the right transforms (be it in hardware or software).
 
Are there any auto detection tools on GNU Radio ?
 
Most voice is FM or SSB (sometimes you find AM, but it's a power hog compared to SSB)
Data is a wide range of encodings, but they're all well documented.
 
You know, I have been wanting to get my hands on a Hacker One RF to use it with GNU Radio but as I'm in the ass of the world it's hard to ship something from the US / Europe to here without someone from customs stealing your package
 
I don't know of any auto-detect functions, but you could probably just loop through a set of codecs until you get data that looks sensible.
Where is "here" btw?
 
3:13 PM
Argentina is here
 
Nog... yeah. The world likes to ignore South America when it can.
((My wife is Colombian, btw))
 
And I'm affraid to spend 200 USD just for it being held at customs
 
@Girgias Your intersections PR did not adjust _ZEND_TYPE_KIND_MASK
 
Oh really? Cool, did you get married in Colombia ?
afaik gay marriage is not legal in the US ? (or is it? I don't know anymore)
 
Nah, she had this "I'm never going back to Colombia and neither are you" policy for the longest time.
Is legal in US, not in CO
 
3:15 PM
I think that may be the cause of your problem. You need to include the intersection bit in there, but possibly also change other code as a result
 
It's legal here too
 
note that HAS_CLASS is currently really "has any complex type"
 
We finally made a trip in 2019. Hit up Bogota, Medellin, and Cartegena.
 
I was always thinking, "She is way too cool to be straight"
thanks for the clarification lol :D
I wa slike "Zelda, Radio, PHP Core, come on"
 
And since I got permission from TIC (Colombia Ministry of Technology) to operate my radio while I was down there, I now get more frequent updates (spam) from Colombia than she does, which annoys her just enough to be funny. :)
 
3:17 PM
@NikiC AHA, well will look into that, thanks :D
 
I don't know why people are straight or gay. A human's awesomeness index is not predicated on their junk.
 
Might make the intersection RFC less annoying although I wouldn't support arbitrary grouping yet and I haven't even looked at the variance code bit (which is going to fry my brain even more)
 
Personal experience, most of my normal friends are not so cool as my gay friends
 
It is interesting what an impact Zelda had on people of my generation in particular, but even later ones.
 
How old are you btw
3..5 ?
 
3:19 PM
Never ask a lady her age.
 
Come on
 
Mid 40s
 
Late 30's here
 
And I'm not saying that to be vague, I just can't be arsed to remember how old I am anymore.
 
age doesn't matter really
 
3:20 PM
@Sara he didn't
/ducks
 
According to my knees, age matters very much.
 
cmb
@Sara sorry, maybe in a few years again
 
@DaveRandom That took me a second. I gave it a polite chuckle.
 
always risky
 
umm...
 
3:21 PM
@Sara And I would guess you are also into astronomy ?
 
@cmb I'm less inclined to lean hard on a 7.3 RM 'cause back to back is its own hell. Remi has had a year off though.
@ln-s Only as a passing fancy. Though I never miss a Falcon 9 launch.
 
Move in with me
xD
 
Sorry, taken.
 
I'll accept you and your wife I don't care
 
She's weirdly monogamous.
 
3:22 PM
Hey hey nobody stated anything about sexual related topics
 
weirdo
 
Also, anyone who doesn't LOSE THEIR GOD DAMNED MIND every time we drop a rover onto Mars using A GOD DAMNED FLYING SPACE CRANE doesn't know how to live.
 
Not really weirdo, I just have the need to share my interests with someone who has very similar interests
 
Oh shit... work meeting coming up. PEACE.
 
Peace out
 
3:34 PM
Question for the audience: If an RFC refers to "lambdas," or to "closures," or to "anonymous function," do you care which it is? In PHP speak we tend to use them al more or less interchangeably.
 
AFAIK every single one of them refers to \Closure
 
I mean the concept, not the class.
 
$a = function(){}; var_dump(get_class($a)); //\Closure
So closure should be used, always
In my opinion
to be consistent
 
Except we're not consistent in docs, which refer to anonymous functions, and to arrow functions. :-)
(And rarely to closures.)
 
yes absolutely that's why I'm saying, closure should be used more often, regarding arrow functions
you can't say arrow closures haha
It depends on the context
 
3:38 PM
The context is working on an RFC with someone and we're debating which term to use where; the strictly CS meaning of lambda and closure is different, but PHP tends to use all three terms willy nilly to mean the same thing.
 
but to reflect reality, I would always refer to closures, example, arrow functions is the new short hand syntax to create closures
 
A lambda is an anonymous function. A closure is what you get once you close that anonymous function over a context/variable.
From docs right now: "Arrow functions were introduced in PHP 7.4 as a more concise syntax for anonymous functions. "
 
closures
 
No one says anonymous closures. :-) In part because that's redundant.
(Anyone else want to weigh in?)
 
Arrow functions were introduced in PHP 7.4 as a more concise syntax for creating a closure
 
3:41 PM
/shrug
My question is about an RFC and if anyone gives a damn what term we use. :-)
 
I do :P use closure, it reflects what is really going on
So anyone else can head to the \Closure docs
 
Except technically we're defining a syntax for lambdas. They're NOT closures until they've been closed over.
 
$a = fn() => return 1; var_dump(get_class($a)); \Closure

In my opinion the user should be hinted to look at the closure docs, either by using the word closure more often, or by adding a link to the \Closure docs in that doc page
I can assure you that 80% of the devs I work with do not know that when you do $a = fn() =-> return 1; that will get you a Closure object
 
@Crell I usually just use two terms: callables (for all callable values) and closures.
@Crell :/
 
@NikiC I just wanted to thank you for the great article on the PHP 7 VM. We could really use more resources like it. JetBrains should pay you to write articles as well as code.
 
3:58 PM
We end up just using "closures" on the RFC. Thanks folks.
 
@NunoMaduro o/
 
4:13 PM
@Trowski Which article
Could you paste the link ?
 
cmb
@Crell well, the PHP manual is generally super "willy nilly" :p
 
@cmb Fact.
@NunoMaduro Posted! fingers crossed
 
@Crell Oh thank god, because I just wrote: function () use ($to, $library, $thread, $author, $title, $library_name, $top_post) {
 
Eep.
 
🤞🏻
 
4:22 PM
I guess that's one Yes vote...
 
For sure, and that amount of values comes up pretty often when wanting to inject a bunch of data inside a callback for something like buffering the output s tream
 
You didn't actually run that. ;)
fn() => return 1 is invalid since return is not an expression. :p
 
@Sara Did not, should have used 3v4l
 
Though yes, it is indeed 'Closure'
 
I lcak 8 here
 
4:26 PM
UPGRADE OR GTFO
I'll buy you a copy, here's a paid link: php.net/distributions/php-8.0.3.tar.gz
 
haha
Wonder if all major libs I'm using support 8 tho
Main reason why I don't upgrade, then library creators depending on other libraries will state the same, so it's a circle jerk of excuses
 
You'd have to ask google.
We could take some absolutely random guesses based on context, but they would be guesses.
 
But random guessing is fun! I blame HHVM myself
 
It's always HHVM's fault.
 
@Stephen probably to block people from signing requests for independence for Catalonia. stuff they don't want to do.
 
4:32 PM
That.... is entirely on brand, actually.
 
Uhm
I just found about the existence of phpdbg
xD
 
@ln-s We even ship to Argentina!
 
hahaha
@Sara tell that french guy potencier to fully update to 8 and then I will jump in
Well Niklas actually :P
 
Here's not here atm, but he does stop by...
Fabien, I mean
 
Since grekas is fabien's boy, don't know if fabien still codes anything
We exchanged mails once, I pointed to a vulnerability on PdoSessionHandler, some awful while true code there xD
Is there a proper article on how to use phpdbg and how would it help me identify certain problems or improvements
I like the info I get from it so far, as in amount of classes, etc
Ohhh nice
 
THANKS
Meant that in lowercase ;)
 
5:06 PM
yeh, not that grateful
 
@Sara really? we have a fabien, but not that one afaik...
 
All uppercase can signify or signifies to most the act of yelling @DaveRandom @Danack Yes I know but I couldn't edit that one
 
Mar 16 at 21:16, by Danack
btw, pressing up allows you to edit.
 
5:23 PM
non-atomic behaviour when changing symlinked doc-root ・ *General Issues ・ #80904
 
5:38 PM
@ln-s I generally read it as the voice of death
"a voice like coarse gravel falling onto poured concrete from a great height"
 
5:57 PM
Should an operation named "replace" imply "removal" ?
When the item exists already in a set, the item is removed imo
 
6:09 PM
"replace" implies a removal yes, there has to be a non-null target
otherwise it's insert or "upsert" (I have never liked that term)
 
So I suppose if I had a series of callbacks before removal those should be called (when the item exists)
 
I would regard "replace" as an atomic operation
i.e. not "before remove"/"after insert", just before/after
you can't bail half way through
 
I'm doubting said operation should have it's own callbacks
 
ah I see
 
Interested in hearing your opinion
 
6:16 PM
should you maybe not just invoke the "remove" and "add" methods?
 
But we said "replace" implies a removal yes, there has to be a non-null target
 
i.e. make it sugar for those 2 ops rather than its own impl
 
heavy pondering
I don't think it should have it's own set of callbacks tbh
or maybe ? ... doubts
 
I don't intuitively know the "right way", so I suspect there isn't 1 true "correct answer"
 
yeah
exactly
I think the own set of callbacks would give the user extra freedom if he doesn't implements BeforeAppendInterface
 
6:19 PM
I think you should look at MutationObserver in the JS dom, in fact
that seems quite closely related to what you are doing
at least in terms of the mechanics
I can't remember exactly how it behaves, but I know it has well defined behaviour
and I need to go tidy up/eat and stuff, bbiab
 
Yes I want somehting well defined, don't want conditions which include "If I was taking a shit but joe was having a threesome with midgets"
THEN, the polar bear is asleep ...
 
 
1 hour later…
7:40 PM
@NunoMaduro Do we have a test in your PR to verify the instant-execute multiline expression syntax?
 
Ayup Joe o/
 
yo
@beberlei no, it isn't that simple ... the primitives that parallel uses (mutex/conditions) to implement CSP rely on their execution being in parallel, obviously ... anything else will deadlock/break/cause havoc and be absolutely impossible to program with ... to be compatible, it means a re-implementation from the ground up of the most complex parts of parallel ...
I'm just not really going to do that ... it would be the first time I had done it, and so would never be the kind of thing you could actually deploy ... one does not just implement your own primitives ...
it's over for parallel php, you chumps are going to have to make do with one core or abuse processes ... or maybe someone else will come along that thinks it's a good idea to re-implement the most complex parts of parallel (or programming in general) ... but I'm out ...
 
sorry to hear :(
 
this is such a bad decision, 20 years waiting to execute on the CPU, we finally get it and just when we're ready to take advantage of the servers we run on, we make a fucking crazy u-turn ...
it's a step backwards, a step backwards over a bench we didn't see, which we will inevitably trip over and land in a pile of dog shit ...
 
7:55 PM
Are you referring to JIT as executing on the CPU?
 
yes
 
In what manner does Fibers disrupt JIT? I don't remember seeing anything in the RFC about that.
 
it doesn't
well, in their current form actually they do ... but in principle they don't
 
Then what is the U-turn of which you speak?
 
we moved from a vm to hardware, the next logical step would be to spread out over that hardware, instead of doing that we make it as near as makes no difference impossible ...
the only people that have achieved the kind of model we would now require are google ...
with many teams of people and many years ... and we have just me ... I say that because I'm the only person who ever put any effort into this in the whole lifetime of PHP ...
 
8:06 PM
I can't see a move away from shared-nothing at any scale for a long time. I could see something like fibers and a sync io being used to reduce response latency. It's likely some people would need to re-tune their fpm settings to take account of the reduced IO time.
 
don't be crazy, nobody said anything about dropping shared nothing ... shared nothing is what makes PHP a good candidate for a threading API ...
 
As opposed to just forking a process like we do now with fpm?
 
all of this stuff is not well understood in the minds of PHP users, fibers are going to make it even harder to understand, trying to shoe horn in parallel on top would change the nature of PHP from a simple programming language into potentially one of the most complicated ...
 
That's a lot of pressure on just one guy.
 
I can routinely get 80% - 90% CPU optimization on my servers with fine enough fpm tuning, so I'm curious what the benefits of a threaded model vs a multi-process model are.
 
8:14 PM
you're not talking about PHP there, you're talking about your entire stack
it's not obvious that PHP alone being able to take advantage of that much and more of your available cycles without executing any other software at all is an advantage !?
 
I (reluctantly) agree with Joe
also @JoeWatkins ftr I personally appreciate all the hours you have spent over the years <3
 
You deserve to be paid for all that time.
 
@JoeWatkins I've been pretty successful with running fibers in parallel's threads. Each thread runs it's own VM instance, correct?
Or is it sharing the same VM memory?
Well, that question just shows my ignorance of how ZTS works. I understand each thread has it's own executor globals, call stack, etc.
From my perspective, it's not terribly different from running PHP in a separate process. Where am I going wrong in this understanding?
 
8:42 PM
I know you declared it compatible because you managed to load them both and get fibers to work in a parallel thread, but there actually isn't any difference between doing that in separate processes and threads ... when you come to actually use CSP as implemented by parallel, you will fall down
it isn't compatible ... you need a totally different implementation as I mentioned earlier, and before today ...
 
8:56 PM
@JoeWatkins I think the reason is that most think of PHP as this weby thingie when it could be so much more
That was meant for @Sara
Im on mobile and cant edit
 
@JoeWatkins Admittedly, all I'm really looking for with parallel processing can be accomplished with separate PHP processes nearly as well as threads. This is all I ever tried with fibers. ext-parallel's event loop interferes with the general-purpose event loop.
 
@JoeWatkins Sorry, I think I missed some context. Fibers break parallel extension? Why? How? Haven't used parallel (used pthreads once like ages ago), so just curious, no skin in the game.
 
9:31 PM
is there any way to make Fibers "get out of the way" if you disable them, or are the changes too deeply entrenched?
i.e. if the user could be told "you can have threads or fibers, but not both", they might choose based on workload
 
9:43 PM
Afaik fibers are not threads they run in the same thread. I dont see any reason why you couldnt have threads and fibers
 
Fibers are scheduled 1:N, so each thread operates independently. It appears the task scheduler in ext-parallel runs tasks sequentially, so it's not immediately obvious to me how a task switching fibers during execution would break it.
 
Gotta love banking apps... won't let you paste in a secure password... lets you just delete the no-copy-paste style from the HTML to do it
 
lol mint
tho actually it does concern me that a bank would do that at all
would be good if browsers would just disallow it on <input type="password">
not convinced about that statement but can't immediately think of an exception
 
@DaveRandom makes sense to me
Of course I tend to be in the camp that it is my browser and you shouldn't disallow me from copy pasting into any input that supports it.
Genuinely can't think of a reason you'd want to disallow it
 
Add credit card number fields that disable paste to the list of grievances.
@CharlesSprayberry I think that was his point, the browser should enforce allowing paste into password fields.
 
9:57 PM
@Trowski Sure, I think it should be all inputs that accept text
 
and 3 security questions that now all have completely made up answers because omgwtf stupidity
 
@CharlesSprayberry Ah, yes, agreed.
 
I don't understand why sites take away ability to paste into inputs for anything. Passwords, credit cards, doesn't matter.
 
10:13 PM
I don't get it. Preventing copy is understandable for sensitive fields, but paste?
 
They think they're being uber-secure
 
Likely somebody's idea of security theater
 
^
 
Yeah it really is security theatre
 
If I had to guess, it is probably illegal on grounds of making it harder for people with disabilities.
 
10:15 PM
Disallow me from pasting my randomly-generated password from my password manager, that'll really show me how secure your site is 🙄
@LeviMorrison that only counts in countries with accessibility laws that cover websites.
Which is one thing the US sorta got right, for once
 
@Tiffany Yes, but I think many institutions that prevent paste are in the financial sector, and they often operate in such countries.
 
It's just like how password recovery is 3 special things... which are almost always stored in plain text and thus compromised whenever a site that uses them is
I don't want 3 obvious password security questions. I want multi factor auth damnit
 
@Tiffany One of the websites that does this is my county's website for paying my property taxes.
 
@Trowski D:
 
It's great having to manually type in my bank account details where getting them wrong may result in a fee for a returned payment and fines for late payment of taxes.
 
10:29 PM
they should probably do something about that before someone sues them...
@Trowski wtf
 
That's the most egregious example I can think of. Most others are just an annoyance.
 
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