« first day (4055 days earlier)      last day (893 days later) » 

Wes
2:47 AM
finally found a way to unleash the true power of After Effects
if you have two files that have the same name but that are in different folders, apparently it's completely normal for AE's media cache to mix them up
 
Wes
3:31 AM
moral of the story is, i shouldn't have complained about web development because this is far worse
 
4:15 AM
If I method chain on an object that has two getters with DateTimeImmutable, does it create a new instance on each chain?
 
Wes
most likely @James unless some magic
 
hmm ok ta. seems like nice to have with the immutable but perhaps less so if doing chaining a lot
 
Wes
4:53 AM
that is one of the problems with immutability. especially with bulky data structures. imagine making a copy of an array every time you add or remove an element. but for small structures it is completely fine to do that @James
In computing, a persistent data structure or not ephemeral data structure is a data structure that always preserves the previous version of itself when it is modified. Such data structures are effectively immutable, as their operations do not (visibly) update the structure in-place, but instead always yield a new updated structure. The term was introduced in Driscoll, Sarnak, Sleator, and Tarjans' 1986 article.A data structure is partially persistent if all versions can be accessed but only the newest version can be modified. The data structure is fully persistent if every version can be bo...
 
5:22 AM
thanks again :) will sway to chaining as it's a small class with little data
 
 
5 hours later…
10:03 AM
o/
 
\o
 
 
1 hour later…
11:25 AM
Fun fact 0644 in octal is 420 in dec
 
I came to a realization that we need to make '0' == true. Would anyone else want to create RFC for this?
 
'0' == false is part of the type juggling rules, changing that would break a bunch of stuff, if('0') would also need to resolve to true
 
cmb
also empty()
 
correct
Would be mayhem
people are already bitching hard about small breaks
 
11:47 AM
You do know that you'll never get == to be transitive?
'0' == 0 == false == ''

Suppose you make '0' == true, then '0' == 0, but 0 == false so you've got again a mismatch
 
Simple practical example how it could go extremely wrong:

CREATE TABLE test(
id INT UNSIGNED NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT PRIMARY KEY,
user INT UNSIGNED NOT NULL,
enabled TINYINT(1)
);

$sql = 'SELECT * FROM test';
...
...
$records = $stmt->execute();

$records = $stmt->fetchAll(\PDO::FETCH_ASSOC);

foreach($records as $record){
if($enabled) { //send X amount of cash }
}
 
That returns an integer though, not a string :)
 
should have been enabled CHAR(1) :)
 
*should have been using postgres :D
 
haha
the boolean mysql type is just an alias of tinyint(1)
 
12:02 PM
Wha? Is that an actual type in mysql?
 
It's a lie
But you can field BOOLEAN DEFAULT FALSE
Ugh I have to get my jab
damn it ....
 
Isn't it a good thing? :)
 
Don't ever think feeling like shit is a good thing
Besides I'm scared about the side effects
 
Is it the covid vaccin?
 
yes
 
12:07 PM
You are probably fine
 
probably
Hey if I don't type any longer you'll know at least
probably haha
 
Ok, then I give up. The type juggling is so confusing even with page open I still have no idea what to expect
Let's say I have if($val !== false && $val != 0) what are the allowed values?
 
@ln-s what kind of shot(s) do they provide over there?
 
Moderna Sinopharm Sputnik Astrazeneca Pfizer
aaand Cansino
 
Is Cansino coming from over there?
 
12:16 PM
I have no idea
Cansino
Origen: China
Modalidad de vacunación: única dosis
 
ah
 
It's mono dose
But as it is chinese and i need to travel
not a good idea
I'll probably get Moderna
 
I am hoping we can do a booster shot soon
 
12:30 PM
I booked mine in !
In 10 days, I think. That'll make it 2x AstraZeneca and 1x Pfizer.
 
@Dharman Any non-zero integer/float values, and any string not equal to '0' I'd say
Although I may not be sure, as '' may as well get juggles to 0 as an int
But don't have the brain cells to think about this rn
 
yeah, that's the problem
type juggling is burning our brain cells out
 
Not really no, it's pretty useful at times, but if you just need something to be an int... then just do that
 
cmb
12:50 PM
 
1:41 PM
@Dharman I think you're finding out that falsy logic in if statements is hard to use, and using positive logic is easier to reason about.
 
However going for true leads to spaghetti code in most situations

function test($a) { if($a) { 100+ lines } return;}
function test($a) { if(!$a) { return; } //true logic }
 
Morning
 
Morning
 
function skip_processing($val)
{
	if ($val === true) {
		return true;
	}

	if (is_int($val) && $val !== 0) {
 	    false;
	}
	return false;
}


function test($a) { if(skip_processing($val)) { return; } //true logic }
It's better to give something complicated an explicit name rather than expect people to read the code and grok it.
 
nice
 
1:57 PM
/the second block should probably return true...but you get the point.
 
You assume that the value can only be int or false. What if the value is a numeric string?
 
use is_numeric
 
@Dharman that was an example. I have no idea what your code is actually meant to be doing, only that having falsy logic in if statements leads to code that even the person who wrote it complains about how difficult it is to understand.
 
@Tpojka lol- never thought about this before.
And Morning all!
 
2:09 PM
o/
 
2:20 PM
\o
@StatikStasis :D
 
2:32 PM
@OndřejMirtes @MarkR Because all enums right now are finite, they all have a cases() method that returns a finite list, which is iterable. The Enum itself (Foo) is not iterable unless you implement Traversable somehow (though I don't know why you would). In the future, if we get around to adding ADTs then those will not have a cases() method, as its list of possible values will not be (necessarily) finite.
 
3:22 PM
New Ghostbusters looks amazing and I've heard great reviews from those who have watched it.
 
cmb
3:58 PM
It seems bugsnet is gone again. Can somebody please restart?
 
ok
 
cmb
ta
 
cmb
4:23 PM
What's out stance regarding misnamed parameters? Fix in 8.0, 8.1, 8.2 or 9.0?
 
@cmb is it possible to add an additional parameter with the old name and deprecate its presence?
 
cmb
Oh, interesting idea! Not sure if it's worth it, though.
 
@cmb Looks like you got it, thanks.
 
@cmb I think it may worth it if we generally take that route for renamings in general and have the process in place.
so that the question what to do in such cases becomes a nobrainer
 
cmb
well, that wouldn't work for non-final methods, though
 
4:29 PM
@cmb yes, most of php-src API is bare functions though :-)
 
4:50 PM
@bwoebi There should just be a #[ParameterAlias] attribute, no?
 
A user-usable #[ParameterAlias('beep')] (multi-value allowed) attribute would be pretty darned sweet for BC purposes.
 
@Crell No need for multi-value if it's repeatable, but both are fine, yeah
 
Yeah, repeatable is what I meant.
function foo(#[Alias{'a'), #Alias('b')] int $c) {
   // ...
}
That would go a LONG way to addressing the BC concerns some raised when named args were added.
 
5:20 PM
Should I tweet that wtiht he @official_php account? (I think yes)
 
@Derick ask joe first I think
he's working on something...
 
@JoeWatkins ?
 
apparently
 
@Danack FWIW, I was familiar with this for a while now.
It seems silly not to tweet it... as others have been doing already.
 
5:26 PM
@NikiC well yay, and boo.
 
@NikiC Thanks for all the work you've done on PHP, and good luck making LLVM better! Hopefully you'll stay around for questions etc?
10
 
@Derick yeah
 
Happy early birthday, @NikiC. :-)
 
@NikiC I totally understand being bored of PHP but out of curiousity, but why's LLVM so interesting to be the next challenge?
 
5:48 PM
@NikiC thank you, i had a blast working with you on things PHP :)
 
@NikiC Thank you for your work on PHP throughout the years ♥ and good luck on your next chapter :)
 
@NikiC Thanks a lot for all of what you've done for PHP
 
@Danack this and
@NikiC maybe, the world can now catch up with you! ;-) Thank you so much for many years making PHP the best (tm)
 
@NikiC What's your motivation of switchng to LLVM, I've been curious since I heard the news…?
 
@NikiC thank you and I hope you have a great time working with LLVM!
 
6:00 PM
@kelunik Which would then also be applicable from userland, with an optional "deprecated" flag. That would be cool.
 
@NikiC holy moly, thank you so much for all you've done so far! Also, LLVM is gonna be a blast! Your work makes a massive difference.
 
Please improve the compile time for LLVM, so Rust compilation times go down. :-) (They need the help there, from what I understand.)
 
6:15 PM
@bwoebi @kelunik there is a patch from me for PArameterAlias on the list and php-src pulls somewhere.
feel free to take over
 
6:46 PM
@NikiC I tip my hat to you. Your efforts over the years to improve PHP have brought a positive impact on my work on a daily basis. Thank you.
 
6:57 PM
@NikiC I felt that the thriving years when you work on PHP full-time won't last too long, but I hoped that it'll be a little bit longer until you change jobs. Thanks for your crazy lot of work on PHP, and personally for all the help you gave to me! I wish you best of luck with LLVM, although I'd be very happy if you came back to the realms of PHP in the indefinite future. :)
 
@NikiC We're going to need an RFC for that. :-/
 
@cmb nope, we simply fix them :)
 
"Our priority in 2022 is to fund part/full-time developers to work on the PHP core github.com/php/php-src." (opencollective.com/phpfoundation) –– oh. sad face. :(
 
7:15 PM
@salathe what is a good way to privately contact you? Email?
 
@Tiffany The best way would be knocking on my door with pizza. But yeah, email also works.
 
@NikiC Massive thank you for your work over all these years! I don't think PHP would've survived without you. Hope you'll find enjoyment in working on LLVM!
 
@salathe :P if it didn't require all the hoops of international travel (even pre-pandemic) I'd be all for the former
 
7:31 PM
@Tiffany what if you also bring me pizza on the same trip? you know, make it more cost-effective?
 
XD
 
7:46 PM
mmm pizza
 
8:12 PM
@bwoebi Basically: It's more fun ;)
@Crell Probably one of the things I'll work on. I run llvm-compile-time-tracker.com ;)
 
<3
Going to rewrite php-src into Rust while you're at it, as a science project? :-P
 
@salathe Thinking "why not doc-en?"
 
phpinternalsbook.com...
 
What happens to be the difference between a membership and contributor on opencollective?
 
@MarkR nothing
 
8:22 PM
@SaifEddinGmati ah ty
 
Hopefully as more core contributors come on board, the documentation for php-src can be improved. This is assuming that there are enough that the workload could be balanced to where documentation would become a benefit.
 
the only difference is when creating a generic tier ( contributor tier ), you can set "Available quantity" as in how many people can become contributors ( default to unlimited ), while a membership tier can't have that.
 
8:35 PM
@NikiC Not particularly that repo (though, it probably wouldn't hurt), rather... *waves hands* the rest of the project.
 
@salathe I do expect scope to expand in that direction, assuming there's enough funding
 
@NikiC Good luck on your next adventure! It's the end of a great era.
 
@NikiC Hopefully, fingers crossed.
Does anyone know if there's a way to have an "issue" (or similar) in GitHub at an org. level rather than for a repo? I can't find how (if it's even a thing).
 
@salathe with the new "issues" feature you can move issues from individual repositories to a single board. this can be automated with actions
 
8:50 PM
Hmm that sounds complicated. It's only for this one task I want to track, so maybe just a gist, or pencil and paper. :)
 
9:04 PM
@IluTov Good to see you around. I hope you're recovering.
 
9:29 PM
@MarkR Hey :) Kind of. My issues remain misterious (doctors have no explanation for my visual obstructions) but my chronic headaches are a little better. If they don't improve further or worsen I have a few preventive medications for migraines I can try.
 
@IluTov hope you get well, sorry to hear about your illness
 
@beberlei thanks!
 
@IluTov Any progress is progress. May you make a lot more of it!
 
@NikiC Thanks for all the guidance and patience you've given me when poking around at php-src. Best of luck with LLVM!
@IluTov Good to see you, we missed you around here! Sorry you're still dealing with health issues though. :(
 
Thanks guys. Apparently I missed a few things, I had no idea what you guys were up ^^ I hope this is a turning point for PHP and that more people will be working on it than ever. It's concerning to see Nikita go but at least it might prevent a similar situation in the future.
 
9:42 PM
I certainly hope so. PHP having a bus factor of 2 1 is… horrifying.
 
I'm sad it had to come down to this for the foundation to kick in in full force
 
apparently Rust is having dramas of a different type - twitter.com/adamhjk/status/1462812661356265473.
 
@Danack But on the good side, it being rust, at least you know the moderator positions weren't double-freed
 
Oh you
slaps knee
 
I have achieved humour.
 
9:53 PM
@Danack is this "core team" at amazon ?
 
@NikiC RFC: Make PHP more fun
 
@ln-s No, apparently this is i) at least one core member is a bit of a twat and said stuff that was pretty obviously not appropriate to another rust person ii) the moderation/CoC team said it was inappropriate iii) the core team member involved told them to 'eff off, you can't moderate core team members.
 
@ln-s not really...not much info in there as mods are deleting it.
 
More on the topic ^
 
9:58 PM
@Danack Yeah, it sounds like somebody was keeping them from doing their job.
 
It states that the mods of the reddit sub have no relationship with the other mod team
Don't know
 
@bwoebi "Proposal: all votes must now be three-way polls of yes/no/maybe, and all messages to mailing lists will be vetted by an AI to determine whether the author is a laugh."
 
@DaveRandom s/AI/Nikita/
 
s/Nikita/NikitAI/
 
shhh :-P
 
10:03 PM
"...all messages to mNikitaling lists..."
no it doesn't work for me
 
(•_•) (•_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■
AI not Al
always a problem for me i VS l
 
@DaveRandom I haven't specified a case-insenstive modifier
 
@ln-s not as annoying as the fact that a lot of monospace fonts have l and 1 being pixel-for-pixel identical
 
yeah I feel you
 
@bwoebi yes but you are generally insensitive so I figured it didn't matter (sorry this feels like it may be going too far, joke-wise :-P)
 
10:06 PM
Will Sara quit her mongo job now and get hands on that sweet foundation cash?
RFC: Sara must quit mongo
 
@DaveRandom are you using font-size 8 or what? I haven't had that problem except with too small font sizes really
 
when using small fonts I've had that back in the day, I wear glasses now and anything below 16px looks like gibberish to me
 
@DaveRandom no need to feel sorry, but now you've deserved a small kick :-P
 
cmb
@salathe I don't think so. In theory, everybody is free to found their own organization to sponsor work on PHP, as long as they abide by the RFC process etc. The only issue might be having "PHP" in the name, but since Rasmus, Zend and some others are already on board, that shouldn't be an issue either.
 
@bwoebi soooooo tempted to kick you for a minute but Thou Shalt Not Anger The Gods Mods :-P
 
10:09 PM
I remember the bitchx fuckem command, was hilarious
 
@DaveRandom indeed tempting, but just let's avoid it, I was also tempted, but … to what goal?
 
@bwoebi N++ on my piece of shit laptop does it (just checked) my PC does not, don't have the energy to figure out the actual difference (face/size etc) atm
 
@DaveRandom you on windows ?
 
@bwoebi shits and gigs is always a worthy goal
@ln-s yeh W10, it would be very inconvenient for my job to run anything else on desktops
I need a terminal services client that works properly, mainly
 
@DaveRandom sounds like an use case for a VM
 
10:13 PM
not really, I run VMs for *nix tasks because I do them less often...
 
actually you could potentially use wsl2
haven't tried it
friend says it's unstable
 
/me is happy with wsl1
 
cmb
+1
 
(to the extent to which most syscalls are supported)
 
of course it's unstable :-P but yeh it does work OK when I touch it
 
10:14 PM
Some people say that what ms is doing is this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish
 
TBH, I'm just using a real hyper-v vm for anything where wsl1 is not enough
 
I kind of believe it
find it plausible really
 
Great to hear about the new PHP Foundation! Hope you guys will finally get paid for all the work. :)
 
I spend about 90% of my time running in WSL2 now w/ a remote X11 session inside it to run PHPStorm etc
 
@ln-s it really didn't like having the project files on the C: drive. Moving all my projects to a separate SSD and mounting that made it very stable.
Until the files used by docker got too big, then there seemed to be a race condition on booting... github.com/microsoft/WSL/issues/7693
 
10:31 PM
+1 for WSL2, been using it primarily for development for over a year
( no X11 tho, i run PhpStorm, CLion, Intellij on Windows )
 
I did for a long time, but trying to run integrations in Windows > WSL2 > Docker is next to impossible.
As soon as I removed the WSL mapping from the equation things got a lot better
 
didn't have any real problems personally, so i never bothered
 
You must have had better luck than I. The 3 way map between \WSL$, then the location on disk inside the VHD, then the position within Docker made things like xdebug, phpunit unusuable for me from PHPstorm
 
> Moving all my projects to a separate SSD and mounting that made it very stable.
it fell over a lot while my project files were on C.
 
On WSL1 or 2?/
 
10:37 PM
WSL2
 
So you're mounting an SSD directly inside the mini VM?
 
@MarkR weird, never had that issue, tho, i never place anything outside of \wsl$
 
How do you run the projects, native or inside docker?
 
I can't remember how I set it up. The SSD is the E drive in Windows and is /mnt/e inside ubuntu.
 
@MarkR both, depending on the project
 
10:41 PM
@Danack The filesystem access across the VM is slow even running NVME, mounting inside the VHD in ~/ and it'll fly
 
actually, in the past few months i only had 2 projects that i ran inside docker, most other projects are ran natively, and services are in docker-compose.yml
 
docker - and there is the annoyance is inotify isn't hooked up apparently. So things like JS builders that watch for file changes don't work inside.
 
I run node etc from inside WSL2, just hit up the native inotify so it doesn't have to cross boundaries
 
@NikiC =( Happy for you though!
 
11:20 PM
@Trowski Yes. 8.1 is tagged tomorrow. @PatrickAllaert will be handling the builds and announcements this week. :-)
 
@ramsey \o/
 
@ramsey Ok, will drop in the latest updates from boost context for the fiber assembly tonight then.
 
@Trowski If you need more time on that tomorrow, coordinate with @PatrickAllaert to see when in the day he'll be tagging it
 
Nah, only takes a few minutes.
 
11:53 PM
@Trowski Is that a PR that needs to be merged, or will you be merging it yourself to PHP-8.1?
 
@ramsey I'll merge it myself.
 
Cool deal!
 
Looks like only a single file changed for Apple 32-bit arm chips… which is not really an environment where you'll find PHP anyway.
 

« first day (4055 days earlier)      last day (893 days later) »