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00:00 - 19:0019:00 - 00:00

12:00 AM
Do you realize the constructor page right now doesn't even mention passing parameters to constructors?
 
mem_neq_near?
 
neq? Means nothing.
 
That doesn't sound very.... puts on glasses constructive
 
sigh.gif
Which means I'll have to document arguments before I can document promotion. Geez, PHP...
 
Get on writing that documentating. cracks whip
 
12:02 AM
/* Returns an offset into lhs or rhs that is less than or equal to the one at
 * which the two byte strings are not equal.
 *
 * Also, naming is hard.
 */
uint64_t mem_neq_near(uint64_t size, const char *lhs, const char *rhs);
 
I don't get the "less than or equal" part.
Why wouldn't you just return the point at which they're unequal?
 
Because that's extra cycles that I don't care to pay for in the case it is used to check for simple memory equality.
 
Like, what keeps it from just returning constant zero?
 
@Sara Ah, there's a guarantee that if they are equal it will return size.
 
Okay, in that ballgag/balloon example Crell gave, why might it not return , say.... 2?
 
12:04 AM
I can return 2. Anything less than 4.
 
But why?
 
So it's more "these two strings are equal up to at least X characters"?
 
Is it that you're doing the compare in word sized blocks or something?
 
Yeah I don't get how this function works
 
@Sara Bingo.
 
12:05 AM
Shoulda mentioned that :p
Also, intel provided a nice little ASM implementation of exactly that in HHVM if you wanna yoink anything.
 
@Crell The PHP doc is rough on some edges sadly :-/ but I do find it way better than some other languages
Like I can't for the love of god navigate the Python docs
 
mem_word_cmp() ?
 
@Sara Oh, nice to know. Any hints of where to look in that codebase? Last time I looked HHVM is huge...
 
Gimmie a sec
 
PHP's docs are way better than the 90s/2000s languages it competed against. Up against the 2010s languages (Go, Rust, Swift, etc.) it is creaking more and more.
 
12:07 AM
Recently I've had to look in a Python codebase that I'm not familiar with. How anyone operates in Python without extensive documentation on parameter types is beyond me. I don't know what I can do with any of the parameters, because I have no idea what type they are.
 
They will tell you to run a static analyser before hand
 
@Crell I was saddened to discover that only 20% of the manual has been translated to German, and a quarter of that translation is out of date. :(
 
@LeviMorrison PHP has spoiled me. I can no longer write untyped code.
 
Like legit, I got into so many arguments with people telling me Python is "better" than PHP because it's typed and I'm like wtf are you talking about when it's not built-in the language compared to PHP, just to be told oh but "no one" doesn't check with a static analyser
 
12:09 AM
Then compare apples to apple and compare PHP with a static analyser against Python with a static analyser ffs
 
Sorry, that's memcpy
I could've sworn it was memcmp. shrug
Pretty similar algo at the end of the day
@LeviMorrison Technically, if it's word size blocks, then fancy_cmp("ballgag", "balloon") will return 0 on 64bit, or 4 on 32bit. Nothing else (16bit platforms don't count!)
 
@Sara I'm not sure I want to guarantee word sized blocks in the API, just permit it for performance reasons.
Also, it must handle the remainder.
Word sized blocks for as long as there is room, then byte-by-byte.
 
I thought you wanted to avoid byte-by-byte and that's why it "may return less than the point of difference".
Oh, you mean at the tail end of the words
 
byte-by-byte just for the stuff at the end that isn't evenly divisible by word size.
 
Right
The memcpy implementation I linked does that (memcpy_short).
 
12:28 AM
Thoughts on mentioning static constructors in the constructor page? There's like 30 comments talking about how to do multiple constructors on a class, and the only correct way (for comments posted less than 10 years ago) is static method constructors. That would let us delete a bunch of comments.
 
@Crell Seems reasonable? Tbh I don't know why constructors and destructors are grouped together in one page.
 
It probably made sense in 2005.
I don't feel like splitting them up here, though.
 
@Crell Oh for sure that can be a separate PR :)
@Crell btw mind showing me an example of a really good Rust doc page? As I've never done it and trying to look at random doesn't seem to be very productive currently
 
Oh geez, I don't have a single page to show off hand.
 
Can also be any other language not Rust :)
 
12:36 AM
My primary complaint is that they seem to have 2 different books, both of which are complete, but one goes into more detail.
 
For Rust?
 
The enum-comparison report I did (see sidebar link) includes links to the enum docs for a variety of languages.
Yes.
 
I think one is the Tutorial book whereas the other one seems to be more of a function reference?
 
That's approximately the split.
 
Yeah... the PHP Tutorial on the website has been totally abandoned :-/
 
12:44 AM
@Trowski FYI The observer end handlers should now fire correctly after a zend_bailout once RC5 is tagged. github.com/php/php-src/pull/6377
 
1:07 AM
A good night's work: github.com/php/doc-en/pull/188
Now let's see if it ever builds...
Deleting most of the comments on a page all at once just feels good, in a mad-with-power kind of way.
 
 
1 hour later…
3:29 AM
@SammyK Awesome. At the moment I actually don't want it firing on bailout, so I'm guessing I'll have to do some modifications for RC5.
@SammyK BTW, did you my response to your email?
 
3:51 AM
@Sara I gave up and focused solely on beating memcmp for strings that tend to differ at the beginning or at the end of the string (like function names). Don't know what took me so long, but finally came up with this: quick-bench.com/q/hzEriYkHDILDo982QjwnFppDjyo.
Oh, you can ignore memeq_naive and load_32 -- they are remnants from previous attempts.
 
4:09 AM
trying to filter down an access log file to the last few days, and I wondered why it was missing a day. it turns out 57/Nov/2020 is not a real date. Who knew?
 
@Sara Okay, actually crushing it on more realistic data: quick-bench.com/q/5NivZYHdsEfpmKBrXhix6AVIMI4.
 
 
1 hour later…
5:28 AM
Ramtig ・ *General Issues ・ #80375
 
 
4 hours later…
9:41 AM
Good morning everyone. I am creating a function to search for values within the array, but it is not printing the values. what am I doing wrong? Here is my code: ideone.com/AVVC47
 
@Tiago if (array_values($array) == $value) {, did you mean if ($val == $value) {?
array_values returns an array but you're not searching for an array, you're searching for the value.
 
@IluTov Truth! ... lol technical failure .... kkkk
@IluTov But he only printed one value, should he return the other values that are the same, because that didn't happen?
 
9:56 AM
@NikiC ah thanks for merging my patch, juggling with 100 things here atm, forgot about it :(
 
Morning, all!
 
Morning
 
morns
 
@Tiago I don't understand the question. You're returning the value as soon as you find the first match, that's why only one is printed. Is this your question? ^^
Ah you changed it now :D
 
@IluTov I just solved it. Thanks a lot for the help.
 
Wes
10:29 AM
\o
 
 
1 hour later…
11:46 AM
Is there an easy way to run PHP 8 natively on macOS right now?
 
@OndřejMirtes You'll need to build it yourself. You'll need some dependencies from brew (bison, re2c, etc). I'm not on macOS anymore but I used to have some trouble with paths that I had to override in the configure command. Also, Brent has recently made a video on that, I haven't watched or tried it but maybe it helps you. youtube.com/watch?v=tN4qs_FPkWQ
 
@ShivamMathur Nice, that looks easier :)
 
@OndřejMirtes Use some wisdom from this post.
 
@cmb @MateKocsis omg it's happening
 
12:00 PM
?!$@#$% What is? :-)
 
12:19 PM
The singularity?
 
cmb
@NikiC if you're referring to stubs to docs: yes. :) But IMHO we need to cater to PHP 7 at least a bit (I added rough changelog entries regarding the nullable scale param of BCMath, for instance).
 
@ShivamMathur Awesome, I already use Homebrew 💚
 
12:37 PM
why the fuck did the online doc editor decide to only push some of the changes I make ffs
Was working fine last week and now it just drops some my changes for no goddamn reason
 
12:47 PM
How many "attribute amendments" RFCs were there? I could only find wiki.php.net/rfc/attribute_amendments + wiki.php.net/rfc/shorter_attribute_syntax. Is that all?
 
There was just 1 and then 2 syntax change RFCs
 
Alright, thanks
I'm hitting some peculiar stuff with attributes.

1) This example from the amendment RFC with "self" doesn't work: https://3v4l.org/MgCBW
2) When I use it correctly, it says there are no allowed targets: https://3v4l.org/ZFbla
I get probably why but the examples are wrong :) When I want to declare repeatable and want to keep all the targets, I need to sum it using bitwise: 3v4l.org/QBRRo
 
1:03 PM
@OndřejMirtes yes
 
What's confusing me is that ReflectionAttribute should probably be two different classes:

1) Describing what the attribute can be - target, repeatedness. These are always declared using #[Attribute] above the attribute class.
2) An instance of an attribute - specific attribute above any class that uses it - it would convey used arguments and had newInstance() method.
The fact that these two are connected and that attributes themselves are described using the same class is a bit weird :)
 
It... is? The instance of an attribute is just a POPO, what you get from newInstance. I don't know what you mean otherwise.
 
@OndřejMirtes for an attribute class, you can fetch the attributes on the class level to read the #[Attribute] (meta)
var_dump((new ReflectionClass('Doctrine\ORM\Attribute\Entity'))->getAttributes()[0]->newInstance()); => object Attribute ($flags)
 
@beberlei is currently seeing what I look like when I roll out of bed at 7am
 
Are we sure we're OK with ReflectionAttribute? Maybe we should re-vote.
3
 
1:08 PM
@Sara hah :)
 
votes for AttributeOfReflection
 
@Danack pitchforks and such
 
Larry, wtf are you doing up at this ungodly hour?
I didn't even know there WAS a 7 in the morning
Oh right, you work with Frenchmen.
 
No need for that langauge....."7am"....pffft....
 
@Sara I wake up at 5 usually...
woke up at 6 this morning cause I forgot my alarm was set wrong
 
1:23 PM
Me: Trying to follow what little German I can understand right now
The Germans: Ffkfhfkhdskfhalfiubibj,kjfhiu4fh3efncnej make the akjkcjcnweknlndldj please skjdkscnvwekfn
 
@Sara this check is definately optimized for their time, not ours :)
 
Understandably :D
 
@Sara That looks more like the spelling for an Icelandic volcano.
 
Alright, so what is this sorcery with named arguments? Why can I call a userland function that's defined exactly the same way but can't call array_merge like that? 3v4l.org/bQrhZ
 
Eyjafjallajökull, Brennisteinsfjöll, Reykjaneshryggur, Theistareykjarbunga to name a few...
 
1:29 PM
hi
 
@Sara My gf has to leave the house by 7 to get to work, so our alarm goes off at 6 these days. What's your excuse?
 
I see it's described in the RFC wiki.php.net/rfc/named_params under "Internal APIs" with some C language mumbo-jumbo, but can I recognize these exceptional functions as an outsider? (asking how to differentiate that in PHPStan)
 
I am guessing when these names were first proposed, there wasn't a developer-minded individual around... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_long_place_names
 
@Crell We're doing a "tech check" for next week's conference, but it's on German time.
 
@OndřejMirtes the difference is userland vs internal functions
 
1:39 PM
@beberlei So no internal function will accept unknown named args into variadic parameter?
 
i would imagine
 
@Sara Silly Germans.
 
German time? :O
 
Europe/BERLINJAJAJA
 
Berlin? Nie. Wieder. Berlin.youtu.be/O5mIm4bPBWE?t=17
 
cmb
1:54 PM
@OndřejMirtes nope, see 3v4l.org/cGb6W.
Basically, check heap.space/…
 
@cmb @NikiC Maybe we could collect a list of functions for which we want to add a change log entry, and use an improved version of the changelog generator to make the task at least slightly faster/less manual. What do think, would this work?
 
cmb
It seems to me that checking whether there is the need for a changelog entry is the most time consuming part. Actually adding the entry can be done rather quickly.
 
2:12 PM
Ah, I see. Unfortunately, we can't really automate this part for sure :(
@cmb btw. I realized that github.com/php/doc-en/pull/187 added the object|string type to method_exists(). My PR would overwrite this change to mixed - because that's the most correct type. Is this ok? Or should I change the generator to add precedence for PHPDoc type hints if they exist?
 
cmb
Is mixed really the most correct type? I see that method_exists() is strict even in non strict types mode (what might be worth documenting), but it will not accept anything but string or object, won't it?
 
2:34 PM
Ah, you're right. Then the type declaration in this case is really not correct. However, in most cases, the phpdoc types just clarify the actual, usually less specific type declaration, when they are both present.
 
cmb
I think the phpdoc types would be useful for the manual; particularly having the return types of methods in the manual would make sense (or maybe not).
 
The script already uses the phpdoc type info when a native type declaration is not available. The problematic case is when both are present. The good news is that I can't really find many such cases, except for is_a() and is_subclass_of(). there used to be much more cases in the past :)
 
@MateKocsis if they exist, they are probably correct....so using them sounds good.
 
@Crell as you work for a hosting company, any way to get your company to sponsor a university society website?
 
We do have a sponsorship program for OSS/community sites that we're trying to grow. What kind of university society is it?
 
2:49 PM
@Girgias Just drink two beers less in the weekend :P
 
go home Jetbrains, you're drunk.
 
@Crell It's for a Science challenge competition, I can send you the current website but the issue is that the university hosting is stuck on PHP 5.6 and the sysadmins are the most unresponsive people ever
 
@Stephen just report it as a bug? if it is indeed a bug...
 
I used to report trivial things to jet brains. These days if deleting the line fixes it, I dont waste my time, because IME most bug reports filed to JB are in fact, a waste of (my) time.
 
@PeeHaa Honestly, it wouldn't be needed if the union sysadmins weren't utterly useless
 
2:54 PM
You must be feeling right at home in PHP :D
 
:(
 
3:09 PM
@Stephen Is it possible you have a whitespace character there (other than "\r\n\f\v\t " of course)
 
@Sara possibly, I just deleted the line.
 
@Girgias Hm. Let me check.
 
Thanks :)
 
Like, I dunno how you'd get that in there other than pasting from somewhere, but that looks the most obvious to me.
 
before that it was telling complaining about "the result is unused" doing ($_SERVER['HTTP_ESI_LEVEL'] ?? 0) > 0 in an if.
 
3:10 PM
@Girgias Is the deadline at the top accurate? Feb 2020? :-)
 
I dunno, man. I have literally never in my life used Jet Brains, and I've only fleetingly used any IDE at all.
 
@Crell It's outdated, it's a yearly thing and due to COVID a bunch of stuff which should have been done last year hasn't been done
 
vim is as fancy as I get for 99% of my work
 
Got it. (Outdated because your sysadmins are twits? :-) )
 
@Crell Nah because the previous committee, but the sysadmins are twits, they provide us with restricted LDAP functions to be able to check info of students
And that's broken since yesterday
 
3:12 PM
Whee.
 
Also, you need to manually update websites by logging in to an FTP, which is tied to your student account so only possible via the Uni VPN
 
:scream:
We do everything via Git.
(We're a PaaS, not a VPS host.)
 
HAHA GIT HAHA cries
Oh it's totally fine
 
Odd question maybe... does anyone use anything specific to note business-impacting events (weather, power outages, etc.) for historical purposes so that when you are looking at this year versus last year results you can reference it to see if there were any notable events? I could use Outlook calendar- just curious if there is anything else others may use.
 
I want to use git
 
3:14 PM
@Crell maybe you have some insight to a tool? ^ points up
 
You do provide a DB at least @Crell?
 
@Girgias MariaDB, MySQL, Mongo, Postgres. Take your pick.
 
Nice :)
 
@StatikStasis I used to do Excel :P
 
@PeeHaa lol... I use that quite a bit... for tons of things. I could do that here as well I suppose.
@PeeHaa I've always wondered what that source code looks like and how large it is. It is one of the most incredible applications ever created in my own mind... at least from a user standpoint. And I don't give that out lightly.
 
3:18 PM
Pretty sure it's one of those: super awesome tool, but do not look behind the curtain kinds of ordeals :-)
 
@Girgias FTP as in... just FTP. Not SFTP or even FTPS?
WHAT KIND OF MONSTER USES PLAIN FTP IN 2020????
 
@Sara SFTP, but it's still cumbersome AF
 
Oh, okay. That's not so bad.
 
@PeeHaa I would not doubt it.
 
The only thing FTP and SFTP share in common are three letters.
 
3:19 PM
@Sara I store passwords in plain text.
I'm kidding!
 
@StatikStasis glares at you in unicode
 
lol =D
 
@PeeHaa Look, mate. We've all used Excel as a database at one point or another. We're not proud of it, but times were different back then,
 
It's missing the option "all of the above"
 
Polls are hard. Vote your conscience.
 
3:41 PM
@Trowski I did. :)
 
Ooooh! It's a Sammy with a K Powers!
 
Saaaara! With the M G in the house! :)
 
CHICAGO REPRESENTIN'!
 
Chi-town, wut wut! Has the arctic winter set in up there yet?
 
@SammyK I got your reply. I'll keep in touch on that. :)
 
3:45 PM
On the way. It is currently bang-on freezing.
So 0ºC or 32ºF as your preference dictates.
 
@Girgias Join me in chat.platform.sh and let's get you set up. :-)
 
@SammyK Did you have a chance to take a look at the Fiber RFC? Any thoughts?
 
@Sara That's just horrible
It's 14º here and I am already freezing
 
@Crell Registering with the webmaster account atm :)
 
14º is lovely. We call that "California Winter" in this house.
 
3:48 PM
@PeeHaa That's just the beginning. Soon everyone will step outside and as their face starts to freeze off in -10F think... WHY THE CRAP DO I LIVE HERE!?
@Trowski I hadn't seen it yet. I'll certainly give it a look. :)
 
Dog LOVES this part of the year. It'll be -20º out and she'll be rolling in the snow and wagging her tail.
 
<3
 
@Sara Our dog would probably also love that shit
 
> bristol sunset time: 16:18
this winter seems to have gone on quite a long time already....is it almost over?
 
This winter started in Nov 2019.
 
3:53 PM
@Sara Consider to donate your free license to the poor :D
 
I have a license?
 
YOU have a license.
 
How?
 
magic
Not magic, I'm actually looking at the how, moment.
 
heh
I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if I was given one at some point, but /shrug
 
3:56 PM
PHPStorm for PHP = <3
PHPStorm for Typescript = Haha, screw you, boy. I ain't refactoring your code paths like I do when you move a namespace in PHP. Suck it 200 errors.
Story of my morning :p
 
s/Typescript/JS in general/ is pretty poopy IMO
 
Not sure how the login works, think it's bound to @php.net, salad knows better (ping @salathe)
 
huh
Wonder how donatable that is...
 
I was making funny, just use it, has entire suite.
 
Are closed software licenses ever transferable ?
 
4:00 PM
I'm also wondering about using this as a perk to get people to contribute to PHP.
"""Send enough patches and write enough docs to get a php.net account and the perks will flow!"""
But that feels slightly abusey towards JB.
 
I wish we could get somebody to donate some elephpants to PHP (and who also ships where I live) :P
 
@PeeHaa Do you have any elephpants at all yet?
 
I don't, I don't
 
The mechanism for shipping these things around has traditionally been conference trips. :)
What countries are you two in?
Could maybe smuggle when the world starts back up.
 
4:04 PM
@Sara I have had the blue and pink ones, but I moved out and they were stuck left behind :(
@Sara Turkey
Shipping anything here is awful
 
Germoney
 
I got one from @Gordon many moons ago, and accidentally melted him (the elephpant, not Gordon). :(
 
@PeeHaa There is a saying in Bosnia, screw the country who has Bosnia for western neighbour :D
 
This is part of my collection: phpc.social/@pollita/103966127659258566
@PeeHaa PHP Istanbul has been trying to get me out that way...
 
@DejanMarjanović That is funny and goddamn true my russian friend
 
4:06 PM
Haha, dog for the reference.
 
@DejanMarjanović That is funny and goddamn true my russian friend
@Sara ooooooooh
If you ever come hang out somewhere around here I am more than happy to trade you kebab and beers (or whatever drink it is) for some goodies
 
@salathe how do you accidentally melt an elephpant?
 
And do we really want to know?
 
 
I need to build a new display shelf for all my OSS plushies. Which includes ~23 ElePHPants.
 
4:09 PM
@PeeHaa If the world ever starts turning again, I'm sure I can part with one of my herd.
 
we do have a very lonely enfys thanks to Mark & Juliette :-)
 
@Sara <3 \o/
 
Not pictured in that photo are: Elphis (and big Elphis), Steve, Enfys, Zoë, Pollita, probably several others
It may be time to assemble the herd and take a new photo.
 
I want to get the most right one
 
Her name is Lexy and she is the best Pupper.
 
4:14 PM
awwwwww who's a good gal
 
that furball, d'aww
 
d'awwwww indeeeeeed
 
Do I want to know what it got it's paw on?
 
Just a chew toy. We shove treats in there then she puzzles them out.
 
4:16 PM
Ekin is telling me it's a massage apparatus
So we are going with that
"massage" apparatus
 
:-P nah it's some sorta chew toy?
 
@Sara I want that toy now
 
@Sara In the end, will we tag RC5 this week? I got lost on the PRs and messages :(
 
For the dog*
 
I think whoever sold it to you wasn't being honest
 
4:17 PM
Most "massage aparti" wouldn't last five minutes around teeth.
 
:D
 
:-D
 
@GabrielCaruso Looks like that PR got merged, so I say Yes. Go ahead and tag RC5 today.
 
Cool \o/
 
Given the scope of the impact, I'm going to keep GA where it is.
 
4:18 PM
@Sara Amazing
 
PHP 8.0 is our Thanksgiving gift this year.
So instead of traveling to visit families, we can compile new PHP versions!
 
"""I'm thankful the release is finally out and I can go into maintenance mode."""
Somewhat annoyed the conference I'll be doing on Thanksgiving is for a German audience, because I have at least a couple American focused jokes I could have used, but would likely fall flat here.
For example. I don't think I can expect many German devs to have watched Hamilton.
 
@Sara you could aways head over to r/ich_iel and try to find some relevant jokes there
 
Do I want to know what that subreddit is about?
 
It's a meme subreddit about Germany
 
4:22 PM
Ah
/me gets out google translate app
 
I don't know if the English speaking world has an equivalent because France has r/rance
 
English owns the internet, we probably just have r/memes
((don't hate me just because it's true))
 
sadly yes
 
@Sara and room imgur.com/gallery/3fAxQ72
6
Root is also the bestest girl
 
Oooooh! WHO'S A CUTE PUPPER?!
 
4:25 PM
I KNOOOOOOOOW
 
Very nice Russian dog.
 
На здоро́вье!
 
Da!
 
4:49 PM
@Sara We have one of those; the dogs love it.
 
Mine loves that it oft contains treats. :)
 
I've got a new photo from last night of our three pups... one sec.
 
three pups?
 
@PeeHaa yeah... we've lost our minds. But one is a 9 year old pup. =)
@PeeHaa @Ekin @Sara points up
 
awwwwwwwwww
hahahaha thoooooose eyes
 
4:53 PM
I know!
 
Must have been good food
:P
 
I had a bowl of cereal and they were begging for it.
They love Golden Crisp
 
heheehe
 
@PeeHaa Beautiful girl!
What's her name?
Oh, Root?
 
Left to Right: Sierra, Sydney, and Kaleb.
 
4:54 PM
awww
 
@StatikStasis Also very cute puppers
 
d'aaaaww
 
How have they never been on stream????
 
that, yes
 
One more cute one and this one where Kaleb is smiling: i.imgur.com/ET3uXoD.jpg
 
4:55 PM
@StatikStasis root literally begs for every single thing that might be food
 
@PeeHaa Because I would not be able to stream... they are hyper.
 
:-D
 
@PeeHaa Actually... I should bring them on stream... FOR THE VIEWS!! I'll put it in the title "CUTE PUPPIES!"
 
kaleb is such a good boi
 
4:57 PM
He is. He is very laid back, unlike the other two.
 
:D
I am more than happy to host a room 11 pupsters meet-up!
 
LOL! I can imagine us doing that with all of the owners off screen talking for them in the voices we have given them... I know we have all done that.
 
@PeeHaa yes please!
 
@StatikStasis Oh heck yas
 
Have a meeting- bbl
 
5:03 PM
glhf
 
 
1 hour later…
6:05 PM
Oh god, what on earth am I writing, I think I found a usage for variable variables
 
6:16 PM
Step 1 is figure out why it can't be an associative array instead.
 
Hey is there any one who will help me in one code ????
 
> Don't ask to ask, just ask
 
I can probably count the number of times I've invoked variable variables on a single hand with most of my fingers left over.
 
All 12 on them?
 
6:40 PM
@Derick :O will you ship stickers to the US?
(I probably asked something that is probably answered in a FAQ :S)
 
6:56 PM
@LeviMorrison The logic is kinda complicated, I can send the code but yeah it ain't great
 
@Tiffany Sure. I've just written a label for Vietnam
@Sara Looks like I lied in my latest tweet announcing RC4, calling it the "LAST" one (although I did use "likely LAST"). What's the reason for RC5?
 
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