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00:00 - 15:0015:00 - 00:00

12:01 AM
not jumping to conclusions might be the hardest challenge we have to face
 
lol,yeah, definitely
 
Is it normal for vagrant up to take 16 hours to work?
 
That sounds like a question to which you have an expected answer ;)
wait no.
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier still haven't found data on lunar and emperor moth wingspans.
 
Your hobbies sound fascinating
 
12:14 AM
@MisterGeeky if you're running it inside a docker container, maybe.
 
@Danack i'm just trying to install homestead. I don't know what it's for but I need it for a project, that I know.
 
it can download a lot of stuff - like gigabytes worth - on the first run. How's your net connection?
 
I wish there was some way to block an RFC even if it passes. This is so dumb: wiki.php.net/rfc/array_key_first_last
4 functions that poorly serve 4 use cases vs 2 functions that nicely serve 6 use cases...
 
@LeviMorrison at least the damage is minimal.
 
Returning a "tuple" is definitely better.
It's not even that I don't want the RFC to pass, I just want it to be better and a better design was identified and has no implementation difficulties...
 
12:23 AM
@LeviMorrison I think getting support for that in phpDocumentor and PhpStorm would probably be a good thing to do.
 
12:45 AM
I sent another message. If it passes then at least I tried.
 
12:56 AM
@Danack stable.
 
@MisterGeeky can you see what's actually taking the time then?
 
@Danack how do i do that?
 
look at the output?
it should be telling you what it's doing.
 
it just sits there. there's no output.
 
then it's probably crashed.
ctrl+c it and run the vagrant up again - probably
 
1:04 AM
Heredoc end label should not require an additional trailing character – #76608
 
```
Bringing machine 'default' up with 'virtualbox' provider...
==> default: Box 'base' could not be found. Attempting to find and install...
    default: Box Provider: virtualbox
    default: Box Version: >= 0
==> default: Box file was not detected as metadata. Adding it directly...
==> default: Adding box 'base' (v0) for provider: virtualbox
    default: Downloading: base
    default:
An error occurred while downloading the remote file. The error
message, if any, is reproduced below. Please fix this error and try
Couldn't open file /.../Homestead/base
I'm thinking I'm not supposed to manually make the homestead file
 
it sounds like somethings gone horribly wrong. I would suggest starting over from scratch from a new directory, and also delete any boxes that vagrant might have partially downloaded.
 
okie dokie
 
1:29 AM
I've started getting into spicy foods, like eating and enjoying spicy food.
never thought I'd do that
though, my current idea of "spicy food" is slightly hotter than jalapeno, which is mild to most people
 
1:45 AM
You should come to England we stole have quite a bit of spicy food.
 
a low-budget chinese restaurant here has a jalapeno chicken dish that works surprisingly well
like it takes a few minutes to realize chinese food shouldn't quite taste like that
 
2:23 AM
@Danack now it says: Check your Homestead.yaml file, the path to your private key does not exist
 
do you have a .ssh folder?
 
2:47 AM
Huh array_key_first etc is passing?
 
I can see why, being able to get key or value without any fancy footwork is nice, but I'm guessing there are reasons for not having it too
bedtime \o
 
3:04 AM
@Tiffany I didn't run ssh keygen yet
is id_rsa a folder?
 
3:24 AM
Flexible heredocs should not have special indentation rules – #76609
 
Yay, after 4 days, 21 hours, and 19 minutes of processing I've successfully calculated the word correlevance vectors of all 10 million wikipedia pages!
OK, so it's only the English version of Wikipedia, but dem EC2s be expensive yo!
 
Night all!
 
3:46 AM
The version of powershell currently installed on this host is less than
the required minimum version. Please upgrade the installed version of
powershell to the minimum required version and run the command again.

Installed version: N/A
Minimum required version: 3
how do i upgrade in windows?
 
3:57 AM
i have following details IP / Host : 5.189.157.88 PORT: 5252 User: dgas Password: dgas@12 System Type: Bind Type: TX/RX/TRX 4 — Shriji Engineering 9 mins ago
^ in case anyone wants to send a bunch of SMS on someone else's dime
 
4:31 AM
@PaulCrovella Perfect. I was looking to send a few million SMS out anyway. This'll be cheaper.
 
Wes
5:14 AM
lol
 
 
1 hour later…
6:40 AM
yomin phomies
 
7:23 AM
morns
 
hey guys, consider this date "2018-07-08" and am reformating it to mm-dd-yyyy using strtotime. my question is how the server knows which is a DD and which is a MM from 07 and 08?
 
you should store timestamps
@Gordon looks like you are doing some cleanup
 
@tereško nah, it was okay in 2010. just stumbled over it because I got dv'ed on my answer
 
ah
it's obviously because you did not recommend laravel
 
7:38 AM
I have never heard of the Kohana framework
 
it was a fork of codeigniter
 
hmmm
 
they tried to push an odd structure, which they themselves called "hierarchical mvc"
it was basically glorified "template inheritance" from Twig
ok, that's it: I think I will be trying to clean up my own legacy posts
 
and seems like the last update was 2 years ago, no wonder it died.
 
7:42 AM
and there seems to be a fork of kohana too, koseven
 
oh joy
 
I sincerely believe that ZF2/3 are very underrated frameworks
 
I sincerely believe frameworks are a wast of time
 
@tereško No, the reason I say this is because it doesn't forces you to use any particular structure or whatnot, it is less of a framework and more of a loose collection of libraries. So, instead of installing the whole framework(all the libraries), you can just install the ones that you want. It is like framework-less development that @Patrick wrote a whole book about, but with the advantage of all the libraries being from the same place, under similar namespaces etc
 
which framework you guys are talking about?
 
7:51 AM
hi
what would you choose between phpstorm and netbeans?
 
@O.Rares depends on how much money I have
 
@mega6382 5$
ahah
 
@O.Rares PhpStorm is an amazing IDE, but netbeans is not bad either. Netbeans takes some time before they add support for newer version of php, but with phpstorm, its a bit faster. The other main difference is that netbeans is free whereas phpstorm is not. So, my recommendation is that if you can afford phpstorm then go for it, but if not then netbeans is not a bad choice. Also, some text-editors like atom and vscode, are pretty good too nowadays.
 
@mega6382 thanks , netbeans looks like it doesn't get many updates but at least it is free
 
notepad+ anyone?
 
7:58 AM
there is also eclipse with php support if you want free
@SatizhJ notepad is not an ide
 
@SatizhJ me
 
i know but it uses less ram so loading scripts are bit faster than netbeans
 
@Gordon I tried eclipse with another plugins and it fails a lot of times to load
 
loading scripts?! errm. why is that important?
 
solecism a nonstandard or ungrammatical usage, as unflammable and they was.
 
8:00 AM
and less RAM? I have phpstorm and intellij running at the same time plus chrome and firefox and I dont have RAM issues with 16 gig. And if you have less than 16 gig update your RAM
 
all i had was a 2gb ram laptop with least possible configuration so you can imagine the pain working in a IDE.
yeah , thats right. lets upgrade.
and make the clients pay for it
 
well, yes. invest some the money you earn in proper equipment
 
RAM is too expensive now
 
sometimes am fine with it because the high end the machine the more entertainment options we get. in this pc i cant run any games so thats actually helpful
 
@SatizhJ you see, this is the kind of baseless BS, that drives people to use wrong tools for the job, like laravel. An IDE and a simple text editor like np++ are not at all on the same level, in terms of functionality and uses.
 
8:07 AM
hmm...
 
@O.Rares IDK where you live but a DDR3 - PC3L-12800 1600MHz brick with 16GB for my x250 costs about 170 euro. That's not that much.
 
feels like monday
 
@Gordon that is cheap, but if you need speed not capacity it is not cheap
 
@O.Rares can you explain that statement?
 
@Gordon this is the internet, you can say whatever you like ...
 
8:14 AM
Hello all
 
ddr 4 is much faster than dd3, you maybe want to load a lot of things very fast,like when you are debugging a game
 
@O.Rares are you debugging games?
 
not now
 
@O.Rares your argument is invalid
 
in the past I did and ddr4 was a very good upgrade
@Gordon I go with the brick then
 
8:16 AM
A Lenovo 16 GB DDR4 2.133 MHz SoDIMM is about 300 euros
 
@Gordon where?
@Gordon mine was 550 with 8gb
 
Phpstorm is takes long time to load so is there an online website to correct php mistakes in marks },); ... etc ?
 
in the official lenovo store
 
I dunno what you mean by debugging, if you mean debugging the actual code of the game, then the memory you use, cpu speed, and anything else to do with performance is entirely irrelevant, we don't care about the performance of debugging low level code, we care about correctness, as a result disassemblers are not written with performance in mind, they cannot be ... they must be correct above all else ...
 
@Gordon without video card?
 
8:17 AM
@O.Rares errrm?!? since when does RAM include a video card?
 
2.133 MHz > Ghz
 
@JoeWatkins I meant debugging in game, loading elements
 
I dunno what that means ...
 
@Gordon you said "A lenovo" so it can come with a video card
 
@O.Rares You can probably get 16gb ddr3 3000mhz at around the same price that gordon mentioned for the 1600mhz. And for about $250 you can get 16gb 2400mhz ddr4
 
8:19 AM
@JoeWatkins loading 1000 trees
 
@O.Rares a Lenovo RAM brick. We are talking about RAM. Not entire computers.
 
@JoeWatkins you should play around with unreal some time... it's pretty weird
 
@Gordon oh
mb then
 
I dunno if you mean trees, or trees ...
 
I have another question also Is phpstorm on linux is faster than it on windows?
 
8:21 AM
300 bucks for a RAM upgrade is not expensive. It's less than day of billed work for a freelancer.
and it's completely worth the investment when you are stuck on 2gigs. 2 gigs is not enough for anything nowadays.
 
2gigs is not even enough for x32 operating systems
 
not completely useless ... you could hit someone in the eye with it ... use it as a small ruler ... if 2x1gb you could use as a nerdy set of chopsticks (probably) ...
use it for the straight edge to manufacture paper planes, containing words of war, to fire at your colleagues ...
 
sharpen them and cut bread
 
good, I like ...
probably shouldn't use it as memory though ...
 
8:42 AM
@Gordon It really depends on what you do... i regularly notice some slowdown due to excessive memory compression with 16 gb, 24 or 32 gb are fine
 
9:13 AM
moin 11
 
mornin
 
9:44 AM
\o
 
10:05 AM
@TheodoreBrown Fixed, thanks
 
Wes
\o
 
hey anyone online ? :) I need some help actually advice :)
 
10:35 AM
@Gordon well, not in every country. $300 here is quite a lot
 
@tereško does it cost the same in your country?
 
TBH, it might depend on the skill level, but consultant here would get about $20-$50 per hour (before tax)
so .. 300 would be something like two days work
 
yes, but only if ram isnt adjusted to your income level in your country. and if it isnt, your country sucks. also global markets ftw
 
and you should actually get a job like that - consultants in IT here are quite rare
and "remote consultant" is probably even rare globally
and with 300 you can get 32GB ... or 8GB, if you are on a Mac
 
see, not so bad after all
 
10:41 AM
I would like to have 32G (linking...)
But if I buy new RAM then I'd also like it to be DDR4
Which of course means I also need a new mainboard and CPU
 
sounds like you need to just build a new system
 
yeah, probably
 
@NikiC get the new Lenovo Thinkpad P52. It can hold up to 128GB RAM and comes with a Quadro gfx adapter
 
... or by a proper desktop PC ... or at that price, I thknk you could get 2 and a VR headset
 
yeah, that's the drawback. maxed out it costs 3200 euros or something like that
@NikiC or join Instana and get a decent dev laptop for free ;)
 
10:58 AM
should I be learning REACT?
 
@user1575229 ask the JS people
 
They are not very active people I think... @mega6382
 
I think they are way more active than PHP people, as they are able to churn out new frameworks everyday.
4
 
hhhh... No I meant there chat rooms are not very active..
I agree they do produce new thing every morning..
@mega6382
 
@user1575229 so you apparently have no idea how chat rooms work
maybe stick to xbox voice chat
 
11:09 AM
How do they work? @tereško
 
Good morning, everyone.
 
\o
 
11:32 AM
o/
 
How are you supposed to properly typehint an interface that's meant to return a generator?
 
Can you not use : Generator?
 
I mean, I guess I could. I was just wondering if there was a standard way of doing it.
I recall at some point you couldn't do that because the function didn't really return anything.
Seems to work in 7.2 though.
Hmmm... maybe I'm just getting senile. Seems to work in all versions of PHP 7 3v4l.org/tuGit
 
11:53 AM
Hi guys. I need a little guidance with setting up laravel tests to use an database sqlite.I followed the following steps: created a .env.dusk.testing file. Created a sqlite file database.sqlite in database folder. Added the following to the env file
APP_ENV=testing
APP_KEY=base64:tfkcFq9EpIL033oDdCNBmgjWN9fkRsHuCqMMp8Tz8Q8=
APP_DEBUG=true
APP_LOG_LEVEL=debug
APP_URL=http://localhost:8000

DB_CONNECTION=sqlite
DB_DATABASE=database\database.sqlite
I also set the following in database/config.php
'sqlite' => [
            'driver' => 'sqlite',
            'database' => env('DB_DATABASE/..', database_path('database.sqlite')),
            'prefix' => '',
        ],
 
I think that env call is wrong.
 
However migrations are still running on my mysql database during tests with laravel dusk
@rtheunissen how so?
 
Can't use the /.. As part of the key.
Unless it's defined that way which would be strange imo.
 
okay. I removed it
still has an issue
I had gotten it from this answer on SO @rtheunissen
10
A: How to make SQLite work in Laravel

motiaThe .env file should contain this: DB_DATABASE=..\database\database.sqlite With some testing you can verify that the link included in DB_DATABASE is relative to the 'public' directory(at least on my windows machine). That's why we should introduce ..\ before your link. And of course, using...

 
@Sherif Just to make sure, you're aware that generator return values just impact php.net/manual/en/generator.getreturn.php? They are not returned from the function directly.
 
12:11 PM
@NikiC Right, I forgot about that.
 
Hi guys
 
@mega6382 lol
 
@GotaloveCode I think you need to tell it to use that new env file. It's currently using your other one.
 
I have created one sample example for calling Bar object method inside Foo class method.
but this line if($objBar instanceof Bar1) { is not giving me any error..
here is the example- 3v4l.org/uJZRg
 
how exacly do I do that
?
@jjok
 
12:15 PM
Codecademy has declared that Python "dethroned" JavaScript as the most popular language
 
Morngins
 
@GotaloveCode Don't know. How do you currently manage differences between the env files for dev / test / production?
 
okk I got it...
 
To force Dusk to use its own environment file when running tests, create a .env.dusk.{environment} from Laravel dusk documentation laravel.com/docs/5.6/dusk
which is what I did
 
@Exception what error were you expecting?
 
12:21 PM
@GotaloveCode And your current environment is called "testing"?
 
@pmmaga thanks for the reply.. I know issue now..
 
I tried switching between testing and local by renaming and setting APP_ENV
 
Morning @PeeHaa
 
both did not slve it
 
Sigh... /r/ProgrammerHumor is crap today.
 
12:24 PM
@jjok am going to try using the main env with the test sqlite configs see if it works
 
@StatikStasis at least they aren't brute forcing hello world
 
That lasted longer than it should've
 
12:50 PM
I can successfully run it if I set it in my env
 
user9059272
Hi all
 
user9059272
Can someone please provide me the working code example demonstrating the statement : Array dereferencing a scalar value which is not a string silently yields NULL, i.e. without issuing an error message.
 
Interesting name that is.
 
@SerialKisser afaik, this
 
user9059272
@pmmaga : No, I think it's not like that
 
user9059272
12:56 PM
It is about array dereferencing a scalar value which is not string
 
which is what that example is doing
 
anyone know if this is still relevant:
5
A: Optimizing array merge operation

sunshinejrarray_merge() is significantly slower with more elements in the array because (from php.net): If the input arrays have the same string keys, then the later value for that key will overwrite the previous one. If, however, the arrays contain numeric keys, the later value will not overwrite ...

 
1:21 PM
@SerialKisser sounds like homework ... or exam question
 
@tereško No, it is just something he read on php manual arrays page php.net/manual/en/language.types.array.php#example-62
 
why would you read it ?!
 
Why is the array_key_first etc RFC not a language change? What constitutes a "language change"?
 
@rtheunissen syntax changes or new keywords
btw, multiple people here think the voting margin should be 2/3 always.
 
object-comparison doesn't introduce new syntax or keywords. Not trying to say that it should need 50%+1, more just that they seem similar in effect and would have expected array_key_first etc to require 2/3 also. I would be very happy if everything was 2/3
 
1:30 PM
@rtheunissen technically, object-comparision may change the result of an operation that was already there. (if you add the magic to an existing class). that isn't the case with the array_shizzle
that being said, I agree that everything should be 2/3
 
Everything should be 2/3. We should make it so.
 
@JoeWatkins go for it! wiki.php.net/rfc/abolish-narrow-margins :)
 
Wes
\o
 
o/
 
1:39 PM
@JoeWatkins I support that encouragement. You should put it to vote asap.
 
@Danack tbh, I just array_merge([], ...$shite)
 
maybe just let the 7.3 FF pass.. just to not add more noise at this particularly noisy moment
 
@pmmaga I really want it BEFORE so we can reject any RFCs that did not reach 2/3 but did reach 50%.
Think about it: if this RFC passes then may as well apply it to everything since the last release.
 
@LeviMorrison we shouldn't change the rules for votes that are already in progress. also, the vote on this RFC would only end after these are done :P
 
I strongly disagree.
 
1:47 PM
@LeviMorrison unless we do that, but it feels uncomfortable
 
Either the sentimental and philosophical ideals of the 2/3 voting are agreed on or they are not.
There should not be any prejudice.
 
Don't you love it when you set something down that's important and ten minutes later have no idea where it was...
 
@LeviMorrison I don't think there were any recent rfcs that passed with 50%
But I was definitely nervous about the iterable_to_array() thing for a while
Looked like it might pass with 50% at the start
@Ocramius I think that got fixed
hrm no, looks like array_merge still requires one argument
We changed this on some other functions though
 
No big deal btw, I just alias it as OMFG_SPLAT_IT_TOGETHER()
 
2:06 PM
 
@NikiC looks like array_key_first_last will. At least the array_value_ vote
 
@pmmaga oh
Too many RFCs
I forgot about that one
 
user9059272
Can someone please demonstrate an example for this statement : As of PHP 7.1.0, applying the empty index operator on a string throws a fatal error. Formerly, the string was silently converted to an array.
 
user9059272
I tried below code
<?php
$a = "Jumbo";
$a[] = 'l';
 
user9059272
and I received same error in all versions of PHP
 
user9059272
 
user9059272
Why so?
 
@SerialKisser try an empty string
 
user9059272
@NikiC : This statement is from the PHP manual. There they have not mentioned to apply the empty index operator on an empty string.
 
@SerialKisser try "@Jimbo" in your $a, should work
 
user9059272
@AlmaDo: Would you please create a sample code at 3v4l.org?
 
2:19 PM
@SerialKisser google gave me stackoverflow.com/a/48031299/291626 :P
 
@SerialKisser I'd suggest submitting a patch on edit.php.net
 
user9059272
@NikiC : I don't know how to submit a patch. Please do the needful.
 
@SerialKisser yep
 
@SerialKisser Unless you are using "Please do the needful" as a meme, I'd strongly recommend you to avoid the phrase in the future
It's non-idiomatic English and is associated with negative connotations nowadays
 
We should make a pass with array_push and array_merge. Do you think an RM would reject a PR for that for 7.3 if I put a note for upgrading?
It's not a BC break, though, nvm.
 
Wes
2:35 PM
can someone explain this needful thing?
 
Wes
okay, but why the negative connotation?
 
@Wes Because it's a demand to do work
 
Wes
okay
it doesn't sound more impolite than "do what needs to be done" though
 
Yes
 
Wes
2:41 PM
unless prefixed with "kindly" or whatever
 
To which I would reply: how about you do it yourself
 
Wes
no, you reply: this is my bank account number. you are welcome :B
 
Kindly do the needful.
 
@Wes Yes that is indeed option 2
 
@NikiC @bwoebi Is there any particular reason you haven't voted on typed properties?
I know cmb asked it to not go into 7.3, but prior to that?
 
Wes
2:43 PM
today i asked a question on so, and then i even answered one
 
Fatal error in an example (missing "," in a array) – #76610
 
@Wes Do you feel dirty now? :)
 
He did the needful.
He did it reeeeeeeaaaaaallll goooooood.
 
@Wes you answered your own question
 
Wes
2:50 PM
@mega6382 :B
@StatikStasis I was purposeful.
 
=p
Do the purposeful.
 
@LeviMorrison Seems like, I was one of the people who closed it, well I have voted to reopen it and even posted about it in the SO close vote reviews.
:)
 
How about hiding the results of the vote until the vote closes?
 
Someone did this and there was revolt.
I actually agree: I want to know who opposes a vote while it is happening. I can then discuss their reasoning with them. I often tend to vote the same way as Nikita and Bob because they are reasonable voters, so if they vote against something that I was inclined to vote for that tips me off to dig deeper.
Of course, we don't always agree.
 
Voting with the majority or feeling peer-pressure to vote with the majority can be counter-productive though.
 
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