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2:33 AM
@PeeHaa meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/353845/… ... I expect a "no", but may as well ask
 
 
3 hours later…
5:29 AM
morning, bitches
 
morning, bitches
 
> Apart from libraries built directly on Amp, all libraries compatible with ReactPHP are fully compatible with Amp by using our adapter.
is it my morning brain, or is that difficult to comprehend ?
 
phrased it better could be
 
exactly thought that I did
wonder why it doesn't just say:
> all libraries compatible with ReactPHP are fully compatible with Amp by using our adapter.
maybe there is something significant that I don't know about ...
 
yep, lop that first part off
perhaps "In addition to libraries built on Amp, ..."
 
5:42 AM
comprehension of that is still something like "libraries built on amp are fully compatible with amp by using our adapter"
or is it ?
am I reading wrong ?
 
i think we break it up differently, I read it as "(In addition to [having all of the] libraries built on Amp), (all libraries compatible with ReactPHP are fully compatible with Amp by using our adapter)"
 
ah, so it's more ambiguous than it first seemed ...
 
yeah, just lop the first part off is best
 
morning
 
5:49 AM
o/
 
 <p>
        Amphp offers a number of high-quality packages ranging from basic network components to more advanced
        components like our Aerys HTTP server. All compatible packages should use the <a
            href="https://github.com/search?p=1&q=topic%3Aamphp&type=Repositories&utf8=%E2%9C%93"><code>amphp</code></a>
        tag on GitHub. Many packages are listed on our dedicated <a href="/packages">Packages</a> page.
    </p>

    <p>
        In addition, an <a href="http://amphp.org/react-adapter">adapter</a> is provided to allow Amp to operate
I dunno if better, or better without "in addition" ...
"Words are a motherfucker" - Marshall Mathers 2002
 
without "in addition" it seems awkward there on its own
 
okay without in addition, should it be "an adapter is also provided" ?
 
yes
needs something like that to connect it to the prior paragraph
 
yeah, it reads right like that I think
 
6:08 AM
morning
 
some of the other words don't read right either
\o
 
words shmurds
 
6:23 AM
good morning
 
moin
 
Anonymous
 
Anonymous
I'm sure this isn't a normal thing to wake up to
 
to a small child taking a picture of you? no, it isn't
 
:P
 
6:37 AM
Mornig o/
 
\o
 
The first thing we did after we figured out how evolution works? We created this... on purpose. #science https://t.co/GukVnBUMjp
 
Anonymous
6:54 AM
@WesStark :B
 
i got attacked by one when i posted that. so fucking noisy
 
Anonymous
You probably deserved it though
 
7:24 AM
@JoeWatkins ping
 
o/
 
Hi, How do I start Laravel if I have a Codeigniter development background? What are the key points I should pay attention to?
 
@DamithRuwan step 1: don't
learn PHP instead
 
@kelunik pong
 
@Patrick I have 3-4 years experience in PHP and 1 year experience in CI.
 
7:29 AM
Why does breaking ABI for ZTS in PHP 7.1 / 7.0 also break it for NTS?
 
@DamithRuwan then forget everything you learned in that year and learn some object oriented programming
 
@WesStark you know that we figured out artificial selection before natural selection ... by many tens of thousands of years ...
 
CI teaches bad habits, so does Laravel
You can use them if you know how to avoid those traps, but don't just blindly follow their docs/gurus
 
@kelunik zend string changes
 
And we can't do them for ZTS builds only?
 
7:30 AM
and globals
Jul 19 at 6:15, by Joe Watkins
@NikiC how reasonable is it to backport zts changes to 7.1 ?
Jul 19 at 9:03, by NikiC
@JoeWatkins Impossible
 
@JoeWatkins that breed is relatively new though, it was done in just few years. unlike the majority of dog breeds that took centuries to establish. and yes, it was your people :B
 
I dunno why I need to bring out the big guns, if it were reasonably possible, I'd be doing it already ... it really isn't
 
in fact most of "new" dog breeds are from britain. and you did some weird stuff
 
I don't want zts to be broken in the release I am supposed to be managing, it makes me look like an ass, but that's the way it is ... zts is broken, and I'm an ass ...
 
7:39 AM
@kelunik that conversation was more than a week ago, since then I've had to explain over and over that zts is broken, and it doesn't feel nice, I would have found the time to fix it, if I could reasonably do it ... I didn't know it was one commit when I asked that question, read that commit ... there's just not a reasonable way ... it's totally shit ...
\o
 
Maybe it's an argument to push more people to PHP 7.2. o/
 
yeah, we have little choice but to embrace it at this point ...
 
@JoeWatkins You're not.
 
well I'm probably the only person with a vested interest in the state of ZTS, I was involved in the conversations about it being broken, I knew it was in theory broken for a year and a half and didn't do anything about it, then someone else fixed it, and I didn't even notice ...
these are the actions of an ass ...
not complex theory, really simple, basic theory, it was obviously broken .. and I knew that ... I dunno what happened ...
 
what's ZTS?
 
7:43 AM
zend thread safety
 
i'm using that. :B
how is that broken?
 
are you using pthreads or iis, or apache worker mpm with 7.0 or 7.1 ?
 
nop. am i fine?
 
then you're not really using it
@WesStark it ... isn't safe
 
okay :B
thread unsafety
 
7:46 AM
also, you should use a non zts build, they are faster ...
and more efficient in terms of memory use < 7.2
 
can i use that with apache?
 
prefork mpm, yes
that would be the normal thing to do
 
what's that
 
I dunno what you're doing ... crazy italian ...
 
i've always used the ts version, and mod_php
simply because the non-ts version didn't work
 
7:49 AM
you're confusing me
 
and i did not attempt to understand why. i just thought i needed that
apache and php7apache2_4.dll, thread safe
 
mod_php is a separate thing from the mpm (multi-process-model) that apache uses ... the build of php (zts or non-zts) you use depends on the mpm, not on the mods loaded
you want to use worker mpm with zts, and prefork mpm with nts
 
i am being confusing? ztszpreforkmpmnsts
:B
 
you can have an apache build that uses the worker mpm, and loads mod_php, and requires zts ... but that would be the slow and stupid thing to do ...
you want an apache build that uses the prefork mpm, and loads mod_php, and does not require zts ... that would be the normal thing to do
are you talking about windows ?
because it doesn't do forking
there, you need/must have the worker mpm, and so require zts ... but nobody is deploying that, so doesn't seem important ...
 
why people always assume i know what i'm doing
httpd.apache.org/docs/2.4/mod/prefork.html is this thing bundled with apache or?
 
7:54 AM
except for windows, usually all mpms are loadable, and the default would be prefork
 
o/
 
later they introduced an event mpm, which is based on worker, or has the same constraints, it's a hybrid worker/ev based thing ...
 
@tereško they can't order in that case :(
 
i will look into that when i switch to 7.2
 
7:58 AM
@kelunik amp as a framework can do that, sure. PHP as a language should support it though.
 
yo chris
 
Good day to you, Joe, Lord of the Watkins
4
 
lol
 
it would appear that the new opengrok indexer is somewhat more expensive than the old one...
either that or it has just crashed
 
joe, if you're still keeping an eye on the pthreads tag for php stuff you may want to add "php-pthread" to your list - i've seen a few people start editing tags to swap it in instead
its tag info is misleading too
 
8:08 AM
@Leigh I'd suggest looking at github.com/queue-interop/queue-interop or github.com/queue-interop/amqp-interop (if you need only amqp).
 
@DaveRandom this
--- orig.c      2017-07-27 09:11:41.278392329 +0100
+++ thing.c     2017-07-27 09:11:19.582321525 +0100
@@ -79,7 +79,10 @@
     list_item_t *item = list->last;

     list->last = item->prev;
-    list->last->next = NULL;
+
+       if (list->last) { // invalid write
+                   list->last->next = NULL;
+       }

     void *value = item->value;
     list_item_destroy(item);
@@ -115,7 +118,9 @@
     list_item_t *item = list->first;

     list->first = item->next;
-    list->first->prev = NULL;
@PaulCrovella ack
 
@JoeWatkins ah, ty
 
that's what I would have done ... I think I might have said that
 
you did indeed
 
Anonymous
ah man, I just thought of all the Jimbo mum jokes that picture could have come with
 
Anonymous
8:16 AM
!!wotd
 
bumfuzzle: to confuse or fluster.
 
hahah
 
bumfuzzle: the hair that @JayIsTooCommon can grow on his face
9
morning whipping boy
 
Anonymous
screw you..
 
COM Win32_PingStatus error – #74994
 
8:18 AM
@JayIsTooCommon okay
 
Anonymous
One day there won't be an insult at me in the star list..
 
not while there is air in my lungs
 
I will pin things to stop that from happening
 
@Jeeves status:closed reason:hahahaha, who the fuck uses com !?!!11!??
 
@JoeWatkins The future is not for us to see.
 
8:22 AM
This room always has a whipping boy, used to be @Jimbo till you showed up Jay
@PeeHaa is the default whipping boy though.
 
which makes @PeeHaa's mom the default whipping mama ...
 
I was never the whipping boy, that was most definitely... oh Joe already said it ^ :D
 
aloha o/
 
\o
I think he'll feel better if we give him a badge ...
user image
4
 
Morning 11
 
8:25 AM
o/
 
:P
 
Maybe not Jimbo, but definitely his mum
8
 
!!whosmom
I forgot about this! We definitely needed one that was dynamically created and doing a !!whosmom would have the animation created and displayed dynamically
 
> More information about ping can be found in ccccccccccRFC 791. msdn
 
8:33 AM
Anyone using Docker in production + dev? How do you handle sources being hooked into the container?
 
@kelunik Not production, but dev. What do you mean by sources being hooked in?
 
using it in prod, but only on a small personal project. same question ^
 
!!wotd
 
bumfuzzle: to confuse or fluster.
 
Ah, I see the reference now
 
8:35 AM
We want to keep the repository on the host for normal editing, but those files mounted into the container with -v.
For reading it works fine, as the default permissions allow this, but there are certain files that need to be written.
 
Am using docker-compose. When I mount with volumes: (which I think is the same as -v), when a change is made in the container it's also available on the host as they're synced. Rather like vagrant. Not sure if that's helpful but that's what I know
 
you can mount a volume as rw
 
@Patrick That's the default, no? But then the UIDs don't match. There's driver_opts for named volumes that can change the UID, but I think I can't specify a location on the host for named volumes.
 
@kelunik no default is ro i think
from my docker compose
volumes:
  - ./app:/var/www/app:rw
 
I think default is rw, because I don't remember ever using that
 
8:42 AM
  docker inspect ... | grep -A3 -B6 RW
    "Mounts": [
        {
            "Type": "bind",
            "Source": "/home/kelunik/GitHub/.../docker-.../source/...",
            "Destination": "/usr/lib/cgi-bin/...",
            "Mode": "rw",
            "RW": true,
            "Propagation": ""
        }
    ],
^ RW is default, docker-compose.yml contains volumes: \n - ./source/...:/usr/lib/cgi-bin/....
 
@Jeeves bumfuzzle, to: every code written by @Jimbo or @PeeHaa
 
@Gordon Yes, I suppose I am. What does it make you that you must point that out to entertain yourself, hmm?
 
hmm then maybe it's a permission issue?
 
Yes, it is. Because files are owned by my host UID (I think 1000) and the www-data user in the container has UID 33.
I could make the required files and directories world writable, but that's not really a proper solution.
 
hmm going through my setup txt
sudo usermod -aG docker $(whoami)
 
8:46 AM
@Patrick That's for talking to the Docker daemon and basically gives your account password-less root.
 
"Working with Docker is a pain if your user is not configured correctly, so add your user to the docker group with the following command. Log out and log in from your server to activate your new groups."
from a DO tutorial
 
Working with Docker is a pain
 
@Fabor well, shit
then I will have to think of something else
 
@tereško Yeah. There's more choice on that new site though, at least.
 
@Gordon i bet you haven't seen kubernetes, that IS a pain
 
8:48 AM
yeah\
 
@DaveRandom I'm not even sure why renegotiation is supported in TLS.
 
@kelunik i think I found it. That's in my start.sh that gets executed (CMD ["/var/docker/start.sh"])
chown -R www-data:www-data /var/www/app/storage
 
Who wrote this crap, jeez..
    $textMarketerResponse = print_r($responses, true);

    $xml = simplexml_load_string($textMarketerResponse);
    if($xml === false){
        $errorsList = '<html><p>Errors parsing XML string:';
Trying to parse the XML of a print_r'd string. Wat
 
@pinepain our devops guys seem to like it… to some extent
 
@Sean of course they're using simplexml too... of course
 
8:52 AM
@Gordon I am swiftly becoming a devops guy.
Not through choice but I don't mind :)
 
@Gordon i do some devops too and it's really nice, but it's like docker - it's nice when it works, but if something goes wrong, whole cluster is fkdup and you don't know what to look into first
esp when you are in aws - some fkups are just because glitches in aws
 
o/
 
I have one currently where in my ansible-playbook I copy an ssh key but when I manually create an instance from the ami it's not there -_- no error on build logs.
 
you may suddenly get a bunch of pods doesn't resolving dns just because, dropping them and recreating solves the issue -<magic.bmp>
 
Speaking of things not working... does anyone use USER in Docker to run with a non-root user? If so, how do you regain root privs. to install further debugging tools if required?
 
8:58 AM
ansible has a "roles" command but doesn't help you :(
 
We thought about just adding the user to sudoers and adding a password by storing the hash in the docker file...
 
@DaveRandom let me guess, you watched game of thrones yesterday? :B
 
Anonymous
no spoilers please.. pricks.
 
Watch it you bumfuzzle
 
Anonymous
I think I need to re-watch the last series before I start this one, also time.
 
9:03 AM
last series?
 
@JayIsTooCommon There's some decent refresher clips on youtube
 
Anonymous
@PaulCrovella 6
 
@JayIsTooCommon oh, season
 
Anonymous
pffft umerica.
 
I haven't watched any of game of thrones
 
9:05 AM
same
 
Anonymous
that is because you both suck :)
 
@JayIsTooCommon you've got until bob catches up
 
@JayIsTooCommon you suck
 
Anonymous
@PaulCrovella I come before Bob.
 
@JayIsTooCommon you suck
 
9:06 AM
and who the fuck is kaori
 
@JayIsTooCommon that's what @PeeHaa's mom tells me, yeah
 
@Patrick Thanks, that's good enough for now. At least as long as everything is Debian based, www-data will always have UID 33 and that on the host and in the container. Every user needing edit rights just needs to be added to the www-data group. It's definitely better than having everything world writable.
 
Anonymous
@kelunik can you stay on topic please? (for clarification, this is a joke. haha you say, because it is funny)
 
@PaulCrovella dat burn
 
@JayIsTooCommon Actually, I'm on topic.
> Support group for those afflicted with PHP.
 
9:07 AM
it was already a thing before I heard it was popular, and by then it seemed too late ... and now, I just haven't got a reason to watch it from the beginning, and nothing else makes sense ...
 
Anonymous
joking in this room is incredibly difficult..
 
very much so
 
@kelunik It's arguably unnecessary complication in that it's basically designed to avoid a FIN/SYN round trip but that doesn't change the fact that it's in the protocol spec and that PHP, as a programming language, should support it
client certificates work by renegotiation
 
@JoeWatkins shut up you can catch up in just few days
 
@DaveRandom wat?
 
9:09 AM
@kelunik the standard tls handshake doesn't use client certificates, they work by the server immediately "renegotiating"
 
@WesStark yeah ... well, when I have a few spare days, I'll be using it for better things than watching television ...
 
not necessarily immediately, in fact
 
also, you shut up ... bitch ...
 
it could be that a tls connection provides some functionality that is publicly accessible, and some of it requires that you authenticate with a client cert
 
@DaveRandom The server sends a CertificateRequest if he wants to see a client cert. It's in the handshake.
 
9:11 AM
@kelunik (as I understand it) this is considered to be a renegotiation
 
pretty useless that size really ...
 
I will sit and read this at some point, but none of this changes the fact that PHP should support what's in the standard...
it's not even that difficult to do...
 
yooo whatup people
 
@DaveRandom I see no point in supporting it. TLS 1.3 removed renegotiation in draft 4.
 
@kelunik I don't see the point in not supporting it. openssl_get_last_error() is all that is required.
 
just watch it. it's not a random show. it's the best evar
 
It doesn't interfere with anything, it doesn't break BC in any way, you are free to ignore it if you want
 
@WesStark you know that spoils things for him, right?
 
spoil ... you have no idea ...
 
9:20 AM
@kelunik we have a jenkins 'thing' that copies them in before building the container image. (I don't understand this shit, but have someone who does sitting opposite me).
 
what is does is confuse and anger me ...
I can't do anything with all that information
 
@PaulCrovella i doubt he tried to read it ^
 
But we don't use docker in production - just for local dev and building the containers I believe.
 
@kelunik TLS <1.3 are going to be around for a long time to come. And besides that, openssl_get_last_error() also solves the stream_socket_enable_crypto() problem without modifying the signature and without adding an unnecessary shutdown() variant
basically what I am proposing is both harmless and useful in several ways, I don't really understand your objection to it...
 
@kelunik Also, our docker production stuff doesn't match local dev completely. Getting complete parity was just too much of an arse.
 
9:22 AM
@WesStark replace all of the faces and shapes with random colours and blurry objects that are blending into each other ... at a glance that's what I see, more or less ... which just confuses me, I dunno where to look ...
 
@JoeWatkins elsewhere
 
that's what I did do ... it seemed the only option
 
@JoeWatkins start by looking here thevideo.me/o381m9081b21
 
is that the same sort of thing ?
 
no
 
9:25 AM
oh I see, I probably have a service I can get it on ... but in your attempts to give me a reason to watch it ... you ... failed ...
 
damn
 
@JoeWatkins watch animes
they are the best
 
@Danack Yes, that works fine for prod, but not for dev.
@DaveRandom Yes, TLS 1.2 will stay quite some more years, not sure about TLS 1.1 and 1.0. PCI requires TLS 1.2 soon.
 
@WesStark 0 for 2 today
 
@DaveRandom We can totally add it, but it feels very hacky, but that's unavoidable I guess.
 
9:35 AM
i'm bad at convincing people. i wish i was baelish
 
@WesStark it's okay, we'll pretend you said something clever
 
cunt
was that clever enough?
:B
youtube.com/watch?v=0y_G-sIkG2w S6 spoilers, nsfw language
 
Control/set fastcgi parameters from pool config file. – #74995
 
@DaveRandom It's pretty stupid, because Resource*Stream would have to know about TLS then.
@DaveRandom TLS 1.2 says:
> - Do you support renegotiation, both client and server initiated?
> While renegotiation is an optional feature, supporting it is highly recommended.
 
9:59 AM
@kelunik client-initiated (while it should be supported) should be disabled by default iirc
because renegotiation is orders of magnitude more computationally expensive for the server
so it's a DoS vector
 
@DaveRandom That's why Aerys disallows it.
 
How does it do that? Was just quickly looking for the option, can't find it
 
But it does the wrong thing, because it closes the connection on such attempts instead of sending an alert to the other party.
 
oh I vaguely remember that code, I remember having a loooooong discussion with @rdlowrey in the run up to adding it, I think we concluded it was the best option given the versions of openssl that had to be supported
that may no longer be true
there will be extensive discussions in the #11 transcript somewhere
also the precision of the limiter is too low, it doesn't use tv_usec
ugh, that whole abstraction is... not good
I sort of think we should just replace the entire php_stream_ops structure when the socket is put in/out of blocking mode @kelunik, that code is really hard to follow because it does all sorts of weird hacky branching around blocking mode
if we just replace the handlers it will make the code easier to read and more efficient
 
@DaveRandom That's fine, renegotiation shouldn't happen that often...
 
10:12 AM
the difference in required behaviour is significant
or at least we should replace the I/O related ops
@kelunik I think that was the rationale behind doing it that way
@DaveRandom I might look at doing this, it would be a significant refactor but I think it would be worth doing /cc @rdlowrey @bwoebi
@kelunik do you happen to know how to do this in terms of openssl?
 
@DaveRandom No, I basically know about nothing there. I can read the code and fix small things, but nothing more.
 
I will look at splitting the write/read/close/flush implementations into blocking/non-blocking mode this afternoon, see how feasible it is
I think that would be a good place to start, the poll loops are really confusing in non-blocking mode
@kelunik what alert should be sent?
Oh I see it
> As @bnoordhuis mentioned, disabling renegotiation completely will generally prevent most clients from authenticating with client authentication. While you can do client authentication without renegotiation, most HTTPS implementations use renegotiation (server-initiated, I believe) to request the client certificate. source @kelunik
How true that is now I don't know
 
@DaveRandom Who wants to really use client auth in PHP TLS servers with certificates? :P
 
10:28 AM
I've used services that do it before, although never from PHP
 
The only service I've ever used with client TLS certificates is StartCom.
 
BT use them for stuff internally as well, the BT Wholesale API (WLR3) requires them
I never wrote code for this, I just used a desktop GUI client from a 3rd party, but we had to load a client certificate into it every year
 
@Ocramius how do you test projections? gherkin doesn't seem like the right tool in this case. Unit tests?
 
10:44 AM
There doesn't seem to be a way to manually trigger an alert, and looking at other implementations it seems that people generally just drop the connection when it happens @kelunik
 
Anonymous
!!wotd
 
bumfuzzle: to confuse or fluster.
 
this seems to be what one should do for a server, which I assume just causes openssl to transparently send that alert when the client attempts renegotiation
do we have a minimum supported openssl version?
 
@DaveRandom 1.0.1 in 7.0 I think.
It's really annoying. I wish PHP would just ship its own OpenSSL like Node does.
All the good things have been implemented in 1.1.0 only.
 
PDOStatement failed to bindValue with standard_conforming_strings (PostgreSQL) – #74996
 
10:47 AM
I must say I would like Daniel's input on this if we can pin him down for half an hour
 
Anonymous
you wish
 
Mornign
 
Anonymous
ylhee
 
At a new dentist, doing intake forms, feeling a bit cheeky. https://t.co/LZqLBmbz1L
 
3 messages moved to Trash
 
10:58 AM
is asking code forbidden in here?
 
it may provoke a verbal lynching ...
 
Anonymous
@MunkhdelgerTumenbayar how does one ask code?
 
@Patrick then is usually a read on a projection when running via e2e tests
 
Anonymous
@MunkhdelgerTumenbayar ask
 
Just had the exact same stuff here
 

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