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12:00 AM
@ircmaxell thanks for your efforts. I really like the idea of casts for function parameter in the function header. PHP is all string input so this is a good idea
 
@ircmaxell, question about Parameter Type Casting Hints
 
Thanks @hakre
@Charles what's the question?
 
What is the output of function foo( (int) $bar = null ) { return gettype($bar); }; foo();
er, s/return/echo
 
Null
 
ok
Might want to note that in the RFC just to avoid the future question
 
12:08 AM
@ircmaxell I have to say thank you. The RFC/mail post is very well written and you already have proposed a first patch. What should you thank for? (That's rhetorical.)
 
Really good idea reusing the cast syntax, btw. It gracefully reuses existing concepts while doing away with most of the arguments against type hinting.
 
well actually it's a shorthand of:
 
Will do @Charles. @hakre thanks to you for the support. That's something that I am sure a lot of people feel, but its not often expressed (more often its put down). So thank you!
 
function doBlaThenBlubWithANiceName($iDon'tKnowTheInputButINeedThisScalarTypeAtLeast)
{
    $thanks = (castScalarType) $iDon'tKnowTheInputButINeedThisScalarTypeAtLeast;
    ...
}
 
@Charles Thanks, it was actually an accident. I was making the first POC, but didn't want to go through the pain of adding the new parser tokens
 
12:12 AM
It's better to have this documented in the function header - obviously. So I really like the proposal.
 
so I saw them, and said why not just used them for now, and add the real tokens later
 
@hakre Yup, but in a shorter form that is easier for automated tools to use and is much more obvious at first glance.
@ircmaxell I consider it a happy accident then.
 
@Charles absolutely!
 
then I thought about it, and really liked it (given what the patch does)
 
@ircmaxell Yeah, sort of the patch useful at runtime ;)
 
12:13 AM
yeah...
 
I hope we see more PHP 5 releases after 5.4 so to say. Maybe in 6 month circles? ^^
 
@hakre 1 year I believe is the current target
 
It would be great - even one year - to get PHP back on track.
 
yeah.
@hakre Do you want to propose a new (scalar) cast type?
 
@ircmaxell What would it cast from? Arrays?
 
12:15 AM
@ircmaxell: It makes sense since you're proposing __toScalar
 
@Charles objects, arrays would be considered "scalar" at that point...
 
@ircmaxell well scalar is string in PHP isn't it? So what to propose? ;)
 
oh, right, the object casting thing
 
@hakre Scalar is not string. Int is scalar. As is float. As is boolean
Array may be considered scalar depending on who you talk to and in what context
 
user895378
@hakre Cocorosie = the mad note
 
12:16 AM
is bool really scalar ?
 
@tereško bool is really just a wrapper on 0/1, so yes
 
@ircmaxell my background: What I like about PHP is that it tightly bounds to HTTP in the sense that all input is string. String is a great type in sense of accomplishing things in the net.
 
sorry .. right .. too much reading does this to me
 
@hakre Agree, but other types are worth noting...
and I found a bug in my patch...
 
On the other hand in the datbase we have INT for a reason. So the role of PHP is to glue this together. It does pretty well in the language actually which is represent of type "scalar" which is undefined, not an object (in OOP sense), but very well negotiated in PHP itself.
 
12:20 AM
@ircmaxell: In what sense would you consider an array scalar?
 
So discussing the language mean to talk about semantics in what's in a string as well. Probably json has brought this up further on a very much accepted level than PHP did.
 
Notice (8): Trying to get property of non-object [APP/Controller/uploads_controller.php, line 45]
referring to this line in my code i dont get it whats up?

if (move_uploaded_file($file['tmp_name'], APP.'webroot/files/uploads'.DS.$this->Modelname->id.'.mp4'))
 
Eih, not sure I can defend that, but I do sometimes consider array scalar...
 
Maybe wikipedia is helpfull (the English version).
 
@gutigrewal: Either Modelname is not a property of $this, or id is not a property of Modelname
 
12:21 AM
@ircmaxell Just never utter that around Perl devs, you'll get assaulted.
 
@Charles lol
 
@leigh ok thanks, how would i go about renaming my uploaded file to be the same as the id that is uploaded in the mysql table?
 
@Charles yeah perl has nice list semantics in the language itself.
 
@ircmaxell: I just can't justify it to myself to consider an array scalar. Maybe I misunderstand scalar in a programming sense, but I tend to think of it in terms of scalar and vector
 
fair enough
 
12:23 AM
oh hell . tomorrow SO will be filled with cakephp topics
 
@gutigrewal: Don't know, don't care
 
@tereško why?
 
they released 2.1 ..or so my twitter app informed me
 
@Charles: A couple of weeks ago you commented on a question of mine regarding the refactoring of EAV data, and recommended a document database. I've gone with MongoDB. Do you have much experience with it?
 
@Leigh maybe a link?
 
12:33 AM
@hakre: I'm only asking if he has experience with MongoDB (since it's one of the two he suggested), so I can pick his brains :P
 
@tereško what about your code-kata (or how it was named?). You've found a solution that suits you?
 
sort of
it works , but i kinda suspect that your version would be more optimal
 
You want to share?
Next morning I woke up I had some ideas of parsing the string directly and keep a stack of { (not \{) 's
 
i think my version kinda sucks
i always tend to go the recursive route , when solving crap like this
 
@NikiC: I've cleaned up a bit of zend_execute.c...
 
12:38 AM
@tereško: What exactly is it supposed to be doing?
 
@tereško The objective is to only use one function. Maybe that helps and is a pointer in the right direction.
The name of the function is spinParts btw. It's defined in the briefing.
 
there was nowhere said that i have to use only 1 function
 
(I hope this don't sound rough)
 
and why would it sound rough ?! have you seen me , when i disagree with someone ?
 
> Implement a function spinParts($str) performing the
transformation described below on the string supplied as an
argument.
@tereško how could I have not notices that?
If you're really about straight talking, then keep the wording for real.
 
12:41 AM
so everything outside of curly braces is static, and everything inside split with pipes is a choice to be picked at random?
 
                        case IS_DOUBLE_CAST:
                                return zend_verify_arg_type_cast(zf, arg_num, cur_arg_info, arg, IS_DOUBLE, "be of the type float", &convert_to_double);
                        case IS_BOOL_CAST:
                                return zend_verify_arg_type_cast(zf, arg_num, cur_arg_info, arg, IS_BOOL, "be of the type boolean", &convert_to_boolean);
                        case IS_STRING_CAST:
                                return zend_verify_arg_type_cast(zf, arg_num, cur_arg_info, arg, IS_STRING, "be of the type string", &convert_to_string);
 
I mean this in a good sense. Where has been written that there should be more than one function (and even PHP 5.3 has closures!).
 
user895378
@tereško and @hakre Could one of you guys post a link to the code-kata site so I can bookmark?
 
this was not from a site
it is from pre-interview tasks i have/had to make this weekend
 
<?php

$strings = array('abc', 'ab{c|d|e}', 'a{b{c|d}|e{f|g}}h', 'a{b|c}d{e|f}h', '{\{|\||\}}');


echo stripcslashes(addcslashes('a: | b: } \\ aa: \| ba \}', '|}')); return;

foreach ($strings as $i => $string) {
    $i++;
    $result = spinParts($string);
    echo "\nExample $i: '$string'\n\nActual results:\n";
    foreach($result as $i => $resultString) {
        printf("'%s'\n", $resultString );
    }
    echo "\n";
}

function spinParts($string) {
    $result = array();
    $stack = array($string);
 
user895378
12:43 AM
Ah, okay
 
ARG!!! I hate PHP sometimes...
2
 
site was pastebin
 
@hakre , my bit problem with you solution is still the main regexp .. i usually have no problems with them , but in this case it has a ridicules amount of backslashes
though , as i said , i suspect that your way is much faster
 
@tereško yeah, true. If you mean backslash as a character. The definition given was quite clear and not a full escape sequnce.
 
285 ZEND_API void convert_to_long(zval *op);
286 ZEND_API void convert_to_double(zval *op);
287 ZEND_API void convert_to_long_base(zval *op, int base);
288 ZEND_API void convert_to_null(zval *op);
289 ZEND_API void convert_to_boolean(zval *op);
290 ZEND_API void convert_to_array(zval *op);
291 ZEND_API void convert_to_object(zval *op);
 
12:48 AM
the stripcslashes call is too broad and a shortcut. I do see that. It's cheating. However a simple secondary regexp will do it to filter the output.
 
and then
#define convert_to_string(op) if ((op)->type != IS_STRING) { _convert_to_string((op) ZEND_FILE_LINE_CC); }
really? I mean really? WTF!
 
in the meanwhile , @ircmaxell is venting in the background ..
 
@ircmaxell don't moan about reality. think twice ;)
 
@hakre no, it's just annoying, since my fix uses function pointers, and I need to write this to get around it...
+static inline void zend_convert_to_string_cast(zval *op) {
+       convert_to_string(op);
+}
 
ouch... I feel with you ;)
looks like string is undefined and on top.
PHP scalars might be just overloading of string therefore which remains undefined in the background as static context we hate so much when we tinker with stuff.
or something like that ;)
 
1:11 AM
time to write a blog post about these patches...
 
 
1 hour later…
Aku
2:18 AM
hello everyone can I ask a question here for its just for chat?
 
user895378
From the top right corner of the chat window: "Discussion for all things PHP - Don't ask whether someone is here or can help. Just tell us your problem. If anybody can and wants to help, they will."
 
Aku
1. I have 24,000 html files, and 24,000 corresponding audio files (each less than 1 min audios)
2. I have all the required html files links in mysql database
3. Also have all the audio files link in mysql database

This is what I need.
1. A web template?
2. Pull the data from these tables and show it at specific location on the template
3. Populate the menus dynamically.

First am i in the right place to ask this question?
Is it something doable, is it the right approach.
I have installed MAMP and Joomla.
 
user895378
3:00 AM
Opinions would be appreciated on the following strategy if anyone cares to offer them ...
 
user895378
Use an app bootstrap class to load up required functionality on startup: the bootstrap class takes dependencies like so: __construct(Config $cfg, DepProvider $dp, Mediator $med) and uses those objects together to provide event mediation and dependency injection for the rest of the life of the application. Closure rebinding binds event listeners (stored in the Config dependency) to the bootstrap class an attaches them to the mediator.
 
user895378
The event binding occurs at boot time and any lambdas have access to the config and dependency injection provider objects because they're rebound, which makes the config and dep container like singletons, but not the evil kind of singletons.
 
user895378
Finally, the bootstrap class exposes getter methods for the config, depProvider and mediator objects, so as to provide traditional OOP access once they're fully initialized by the bootstrap.
 
Well, it's not a singleton, it's just a main() method
 
user895378
Right ...
 
user895378
3:07 AM
Any feelings about rebinding the closures to the entire bootstrap class? Does that get to close to making it a god object?
 
user895378
Though I guess the only objects that grants the closures access to have the same lifetime as the full application scope ...
 
yes, it gets it close
but I'm not sure it would really qualify at that point, it's really just a service container
BOOO! Code search is shut down
 
user895378
@ircmaxell That's what I was thinking ... I was trying to hammer out a good 5.4 strategy for allowing event-based closure programming that I don't generally think is a good idea while keeping it as legit as possible.
 
LOL
nice
you just want a dynamic mediator pattern. Which is admerable
 
user895378
Exactly.
 
3:11 AM
I've been searching google for a while, but I don't have the right keywords, can someone help point me in the right direction to search: I have a php based website with 10k various files for some various systems. I have it locally and on a remote server. Locally I've exported the entire site and uploaded it via ftp.
I've made changes locally and will continue changing things. I'd like to build a script with svn to export just the files that changed and then ftp these files. Also I'm using windows, can I make this with a batch file? Not sure where to start looking for ideas.
 
And as long as you can pull it off without too much hackery, I think it should be good
 
user895378
@ircmaxell Cool. I might need some actual code review on that in the next few days and you just got yourself drafted ;)
 
Absolutely
I'm always game to go over code, as long as it's reasonable by people with reasonable goals (and people that are around for a little while, so we don't have to go over the whole philosophy part of the conversation)
 
user895378
@DustinGraham Any scripting language will have bindings for ftp operations and simple file iteration functions to check what has changed locally. How good are you with PHP?
 
3:41 AM
Blog post written and scheduled for tomorrow morning at 10:30am EST
Hrm, what would you think about spl_class_cast_register($class, $callback) to register how to cast any variable to a class/interface...?
so that way, you could pass a string to a function/method expecting an interface/class, and then if a registered callback exists for that class/interface, then call it to attempt to return a new instance
 
user895378
@ircmaxell Hmm ... it sounds logical, but off the bat it doesn't feel natural to me. Of course, maybe that's because this is the first time I've considered it.
 
yeah, I am half liking and half hating the concept
 
user895378
3:57 AM
So is the callback essentially a factory method for generating the specified class from the input (the variable being typecast)?
 
user895378
4:18 AM
@ircmaxell I don't know, the more I turn it over in my head I feel like it might be doing something really naughty but really really awesome at the same time ...
 
5:05 AM
@rdlowrey I'm pretty good with php. I was thinking I'd use a batch file, but I suppose a localhost php script would be easier and more powerful/interactive. Thanks for the idea. As I was away I was thinking I could even write a little C# app and place an exe on my desktop to do this. Thanks for the thoughts.
 
5:16 AM
having problems with git with my app on nodester (similar to heroku). I did a force push to nodester, and I believe it merged my server.js file with the starter server.js file, resulting in an error on the <<<<<HEAD line git adds.
tried git push --force nodester master a few times, along with git pull nodester master, and git fetch nodester master
What's more, when I do git fetch nodester master, I get:
* branch master -> FETCH_HEAD
 
 
4 hours later…
9:41 AM
someone can explain to me how can i accomplish dependency injection without the need to implement a singleton pattern? potstuck.com/2009/01/08/php-dependency-injection
 
9:57 AM
15
A: Dependecy Hell - how does one pass dependencies to deeply nested objects

GordonIt's a common misconception that dependencies need to be passed through the object graph. To summarize the example Miško Hevery gives in Clean Code: Don't look for things, a House that needs a Door, doesnt need to know about the Lock in the Door: class HouseBuilder { public function buildHou...

 
10:17 AM
posted on March 05, 2012 by Stas Malyshev

Since May 2011 we have worked on releasing PHP 5.4, and now it happened. Thanks everybody who helped with it! PHP 5.4 has some new and exciting features – for some of them, like traits, I have no idea right now how they will work out and what people would do with them. It’d be very interesting to see. For some of them, I feel they are basic common sense and long overdue in PHP (of course, not

 
@Gordon thanks
 
 
2 hours later…
12:15 PM
Good afternoon
 
12:32 PM
good evening :D
 
g'afternoon
 
@tereško got your point wrt singletons :D youtube.com/watch?v=-FRm3VPhseI
 
wow .. planetPHP: brining you latest news , with 2 day lag
well , that's a progress
 
@tereško LOL, it just means that they can better explain things :P
 
and why do you think we have been linking to that video almost every day for past year ?
 
12:37 PM
not at all during the conversation :P
in fact @Gordon pointed me to this link youtube.com/watch?v=RlfLCWKxHJ0 i just checked the recommended videos and come up with that link
 
1:15 PM
@Gordon how do those "duplicate" questions make sense for the cv-voted question?
 
gud evening guys
 
2:12 PM
Hi all
 
@salathe the "Best XML Parser" only makes sense insofar, that it tells the OP the choice of available tools. The CRUD one I cv'ed with it is a condensed usage example for SimpleXml.
 
@Gordon neither of which help with the closed question, from what I saw. :P
 
morning
 
@salathe the OP doesnt state his exact problem so I closevoted with the dup that shows a minimal example of simplexml usage
> I want to parse an xml file using Php. But i could n't parse it as well.
 
@Gordon fair enough, they just seemed like terrible choices of "duplicate" question.
 
2:24 PM
is not really meaningful
 
it should have been closed as not a real question, or some such, in my opinion
it's not a duplicate of those other ones
 
Good morning
 
@salathe the OP added his simplexml code only after i cast my dup vote, so my understanding of the question was: i dont know how to use simplexml. and the dup is answering it, so i feel its fitting.
 
@Paul Don't have enough rep there (only like 275)
 
2:26 PM
@ircmaxell morning
 
How's it going?
 
as always :)
 
@Gordon fair enough, without knowing he tried with SimpleXML then that's fine. the duplicates don't help with the question as it stands now though.
 
:-(
 
2:29 PM
any tips for writing an php api which returns json encoded arrays?
 
@Neal heh, no way
 
@salathe i still dont understand what he's trying to achive, so you are probably right with not a real question.
 
I thought of using zend_rest but that returns an xml
 
@salathe why is that? it had 4 close votes. then it was edited. then someone a day later saw the 4 votes and decided to close it.
I would do that too
 
@sanders echo json_encode($phpArrayYouMade); What more could you need?
 
2:31 PM
@Neal Just, no.
 
@salathe thats not an answer
 
@Neal Yes, it is. Too bad if you're not satisfied with it.
 
@Neal Ping a moderator and see if they want to re-open it. Either that, or bring it up on meta
 
@salathe ??
@ircmaxell ????????
 
@Neal Sorry, do you have a question?
 
2:34 PM
Even as such, I'm not sure it's a good question (it's borderline, but I'm not sure)...
 
@Neal does @NikiC answer answer your question?
 
@Gordon not entirely
im not sure..
 
@Neal then you should point out what you are looking for in an answer for a start :)
 
@Gordon ? heh?
 
@Neal what is missing from @NikiC's answer?
 
2:37 PM
@Gordon Not sure. just doesn't seem 100% kosher
 
@Neal And that's why it's not a good question
 
@ircmaxell huh? what the heck do u mean?
 
The fact that you don't know what a good answer would be, indicates that it's not a proper fit for SO... Perhaps Programmers would be a better fit for it...
 
@ircmaxell You promised a blog post
 
@NikiC It's going live in 40 minutes
 
2:49 PM
@ircmaxell what's it about?
and why are your blog posts always scheduled ...
 
@NikiC Basically explaining the 2 RFCs,
 
@ircmaxell Thought so
 
@NikiC I find that posting at certain points in the day on certain days generates more traffic...
 
@ircmaxell looool
 
:-D
 
2:50 PM
That's an interesting reason ^^
 
Like Thursday at 3pm Eastern time seems to be a really good time to post...
 
...
You seem to have done some serious research into that ^^
 
no, just noticed trends...
 
@ircmaxell Maybe it's just that your Thursday 3pm articles are more interesting? :P
 
That's absolutely possible. I don't have enough data points to compare unbiased...
 
3:03 PM
0
Q: Why can't I edit posts on meta?

NaftaliI have the required 500 rep on the main site so that I can edit posts, but why don't I see the edit link here on meta? Main page screenshot: Meta page screenshot:

:-(
 
@ircmaxell They are making valid points
@ircmaxell I don't really think that this can be got through, at least not for the (int) string case.
Stuff like (int) array or so can be changed, but that one case that I'd regard most important, that won't work out.
 
neither do I
but I disagree with their points...
 
I'm looking for an English word that stands for "not first".
E.g. in a list of pages, when a page is not the first page.
 
@hakre ummm, not first
subsequent?
 
ah that's nice.
thx ;)
 
3:15 PM
lemme guess : naming variable ?
 
3:32 PM
sort of, a CSS class this time
 
@ircmaxell (int) 2.5 is one of the places where I actually wouldn't emit an error
Because it's intentional to make it an int
 
@NikiC no?
 
could you maybe change that example to (int) "foobar" ?
@ircmaxell No
@ircmaxell I think that we really have to distinguish between explicit and implicit casts
Because doing (int) $float probably is intended as rounding it to an int
 
@ircmaxell good work, as far as I can tell!
 
3:36 PM
Similiarly this would solve the (int) $_GET['id'] problem
Generally explicit cast means that people really want that type
 
@NikiC I use it often to floor
 
@NikiC sure, but parameter type-casting I count as an implicit cast
 
@ircmaxell Exactly. There it should error out
 
@NikiC You shouldn't be using that to solve any $_GET['id'] problems . . .
 
But on an explicit cast it should probably not
 
3:37 PM
filter_var
 
@NikiC Ok, so we agree
 
@LeviMorrison That message has context on #php.pecl ;)
@ircmaxell Oh, I probably misunderstood your sentence there
I thought that it was referring to casts in general, not the type hinting casts
 
@NikiC $int = (int) 2.5; That should not throw an error. But foo((int) $int); foo(2.5) should...
 
@ircmaxell agree
Could you make that more clear in your post?
 
Sure
 
3:40 PM
@ircmaxell So test1(null); // null?
 
@ircmaxell I disagree. I want to use cast like cast as of today. in which place it's written should not make a difference (e.g. function header or body) in giving errors.
 
@Paul depends, does the param have a null default value?
 
user895378
@hakre "Do you not like the concept? Then keep it to yourself! " :)
 
user895378
And good morning to everyone.
 
@rdlowrey read the next line...
 
3:41 PM
@hakre I disagree. I think type hinting has to be stricter. if foo((int $i) {} then foo("hallo world") should error out instead of casting to 0.
 
@ircmaxell no, i was using test1 as defined in your blog
 
user895378
@ircmaxell just kidding myself :)
 
@Paul Not looking at it. If null is not the default value, null is casted to the destination type
 
@ircmaxell i guess it would be 0, that was what i was expecting rather than null.
 
@ircmaxell I'm not sure though how we can distinguish between an explicit and an implicit cast (in terms of implementation)
 
3:44 PM
@NikiC isn't that implicit cast is autoboxing?
 
@MelvinProtacio no
 
@MelvinProtacio no
 
@ircmaxell your type hinting just replaces $param = (type) $param; inside the function, nothing more or less?
 
hmmm.. what is it then?
 
@NikiC Sure we can. The explicit cast comes in via an opcode handler. We'd just add a wrapper there to supress the error...
 
3:44 PM
@MelvinProtacio Implicit cast is when you don't write out an explicit (int|...) $foo.
 
@salathe by itself, basically
 
@NikiC woah! that's explicit cast right?
 
@ircmaxell huh? (I wanted a yes/no there :P)
 
@ircmaxell Suppress as in @ (implementation wise)? Or suppress as in add an option to convert_to_...?
 
@NikiC add option to not throw error...
 
3:46 PM
Or more realistically add _ex functions with the option and make the old ones aliases to that _ex function with the option turned off
 
@salathe Yes, in short, that's what it does....
@NikiC exactly
 
@ircmaxell In that case, I'm completely missing the point of the discussion in here about suppressing errors.
 
function test2((float) $foo = "barString") { would be valid and confusing?
 
@Paul yes, and yes.
 
@Paul No, that would be a E_COMPILER_ERROR
 
3:49 PM
@ircmaxell so, it's not replacing $param = (type) $param; :-/
 
@salathe Well, there are two types of cast. Implicit and explicit. Implicit happens when passing a type-hinted parameter, or when using it in another context. Explicit is doing $param = (int) $param. My opinion is that implicit casts should error on dataloss
 
@salathe The discussion on errors is only tangentially related ;)
 
@ircmaxell I understand, but your "yes" wasn't telling the truth.
 
@salathe Yes it was, because right now it's doing an explicit cast. Only internal function parameters do an implicit one
 
@ircmaxell So Paul's code won't be an E_COMPILER_ERROR?
 
3:53 PM
@salathe Yes it would, because defaults must match the type hinted (or null)
 
@ircmaxell So the answer to my earlier question, isn't "yes" at all.
9 mins ago, by salathe
@ircmaxell your type hinting just replaces $param = (type) $param; inside the function, nothing more or less?
 
@salathe Then no, it isn't...
 
@ircmaxell Finally!
 
@NikiC in java that's autoboxing, narrowing or widening
 
@MelvinProtacio We are not refferring to object casting, but to casting between scalars ;)
 
3:55 PM
@MelvinProtacio autoboxing is automatic conversion of primitives to objects, and back...
 
@salathe :D
 
@salathe that's another proposal to add that to try {} catch() {} finally {} :-P
 
php is not strongly typed then, what's the point in differentiating explicit and implicit? and what's the difference?
 
explicit happens because you told it to become an int. implicit is when you didn't tell it, but it was passed to something that expected it to be an int
basically, explicit is when you do the cast, and implicit is when the engine does it for you
 
3:57 PM
hmmm... how does implicit works?
like if we have a $a=1; and you implicitly cast it to string, how do you do that?
 
@MelvinProtacio Implicit: str_repeat('abc', '123') => '123' is cast to 123 implicitly
 
@MelvinProtacio $a = 1; echo $a; that's an implicit cast
 
@ircmaxell for type hints, would dataloss notices be promoted to recoverable fatal errors?
 
@MelvinProtacio $str = 'blah' . $a; // $a is cast to '1' implicitly
 
$a = 1; echo (string) $a is an explicit cast
@NikiC I wouldn't. I would keep it the same as everywhere else...
 
3:59 PM
@ircmaxell Probably makes sense
But not yet sure
 

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