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00:01
Is it just me or does the word "slice" feel wet? And mushy. Like a hot pizza slice.
Ell
Ell
Nah slice brings to mind a horrifically painful injury like a paper cut across the japeye
Gawd those cringy images.
Imagine a cocktail stick under your big toenail. Now kick a door.
Hm. VertexCPUBuffer and IndexCPUBuffer it is.
Ell
Ell
@ThePHD why do you need a different one? Don't you just not delete it if you want to keep it?
Uhm, isn't system memory more like it? Oh, well, you can "id" it by the processing unit as well.
Well, it's just a fancy std::vector<std::vector<TVertex> >with a VertexBuffer inside.
Ell
Ell
00:04
I'm confused. If you want it on CPU then don't delete,otherwise delete it after its transferred
user142019
Ell
Ell
This reminds me of bartek s code
Er, wait, no I need more templates than that...
Cool, GCC 4.7.3 has been released with 100+ bug fixes.
Because VertexBuffers can have multiple streams... hrmrhrm...
00:05
TEMPLATE EVERYTHING. TEMPLATE TEMPLATES.
Lol
next up fivetran
template <typename ...TVtx> VertexCPUBuffer
Dat variadic fun.
Ell
Ell
Srsly phantom derpstorm I'm confused :(
I don't understand making another class
It's a convenience measure is all.
Purely, a convenience measure.
Also, I figured out the name.
DynamicVertexBuffer <--- Done.
Ell
Ell
00:07
Doesn't vertex data get destroyed on ctor?
Dtor *
Yes.
But so does the GPU object.
Ell
Ell
so don't destroy the buffer
Basically, this is a class who uses RAII to make sure both the vertex data and the GPU data die at the same time.
Ell
Ell
Ohhhh
It also gives access to the underlying data
And you can set the data to the GPU by calling .UpdateData().
Ell
Ell
00:08
So your VertexBuffer object represents GPU & CPU data at the same time?
This way you use the DynamicVertexBuffer like a std::vector, and when it comes time to update the GPU data you call .UpdateData()
Ell
Ell
E.g. keeps them In sync?
VertexBuffer, by itself, represents ONLY the GPU Buffer.
Ell
Ell
Oh
DynamicVertexBuffer<TVertex> represents a CPU buffer (std::vector<TVertex>) and the GPU Buffer (ID3D11Buffer* or GLuint for the GL fans)
Ell
Ell
00:10
So how do you send some vertex data from main memory to GPU?
.UpdateData()
Ell
Ell
And that returns...?
Nothing.
Ell
Ell
Right
It takes care of the uploading to the GPU and keeps the ID3D11Buffer* inside of itself up to date.
00:12
It's 2:11am, I'm thinking about driving around town and listening to some music.
When DynamicVertexBuffer goes out of scope, the ID3D11Buffer* gets ->Release()'d and the std::vector deletes itself manually.
@DomagojPandža u so silly~
Ell
Ell
I don't have a VertexBuffer yet
@Ell Make one, it's ez.
Ell
Ell
I don't think I'll need one
I made a bookmarklet that opens the current window without the toolbars: javascript:(function(){window.open(window.location,%20document.title,%20"menuba‌​r=no,location=no,resizable=yes,scrollbars=yes,status=yes");})()
It's nice if you have a small screen.
Ell
Ell
00:14
Oh wait I will
I do it for the ease-of-use and RAII-ness that comes with the Vertex Buffer.
Besides, you're working with Minicraft aren't you?
Ell
Ell
Hmm. Now actually I will, obviously :3
Bartek has a GPUBuffer / VertexBuffer clas.
That's all templatey and shit.
Ell
Ell
I'm not working on mini craft, I just test it on Linux occasionally
Then what are you working on?
Ell
Ell
00:14
His VertexBuffer class is bad iirc
I'm trying to learn opengl
And I do zoidberg kind of thing, hundreds of project
Lol.
Ell
Ell
Libpcap wrapper for ex
Well, let me know if you need heeeelp~
I used libpcap for sinister purposes.
Ell
Ell
I plan to too,.
00:16
@DomagojPandža sniffing?
@DomagojPandža How do Vertex BUffers work in openGL?
Like a dog
I.E., how do you specify streams?
@ThePhD VAO + VBO combination
Streams?
There's a usage hint if that's what you mean
00:17
@CatPlusPlus Where each Vertex Buffer slot can have a different vertex attribute on it, and the GPU glues it all together when you send it over
E.g.
Slot 0 - Positions (Vector3)
Slot 1 - Textures (Vector2)
Slot 2 - Normals (Vector3)
user142019
user142019
lol
You define attributes but there are no slots
Uh lemme remember this shit
You create a VAO, a Vertex Arrays Object glGenVertexArrays, bind it, you read in the shaders and tie attributes to specific arrays and enable them (it is born with none enabled). And then you describe with VBOs the actual data which is basically just a flattened 1D array where you specify the strides and link them to the actual VAO in terms of relevant attributes.
glVertexAttribPointer
00:19
Yup
And glEnableVertexAttribArray
Ah.
So in D3D, a D3D11Buffer is like a single glVertexAttribPointer
And a D3DInputLayout is like a VAO.
D3D really works in similar ways, it's just more contained in objects rather than procedural like OpenGL which requires context-sensitive binding.
I wrote this long time ago
00:21
@ThePhD Actually, a VAO is like D3DInputLayout :D
Ahhaaa!!
See, what cat does right there!
That's what I meant by DynamicVertexBuffer
The class keeps a copy of the data at all times.
And you can modify that data directly (I was going to have indexing with [], .at(), .size(), and begin() and end() like a real vector and stuff).
I never really used it so I don't know how convenient this is
And then when you're done playing around with the data, you'd do .UpdateData() and it'd take the data and cram it into the GPU Buffer's mouth with MAP_WRITE_DISCARD
(There's no point using this technique with static data).
(But if you like you can make a DynamicVertexBuffer and a StaticVertexBuffer, for shits 'n' giggles ).
my only issue is that I'll only be able to use interleaved arrays with DynamicVertexBuffer.
Unless I figured out how to do some std::vector TMP ~~~Magic~~~
Still, Ive only ever used Interleaved data.
Really, who uses streams anymore? ._.
I don't even use C++ anymore
Anybody wants to go drive around with me? :Đ
00:25
@DomagojPandža Have you encountered anyone who uses different vertex attributes per buffer?
Like, where they legit separate them out into different arrays?
@ThePhD Nah, SoA is pretty much a bad idea. Cache miss on a GPU is a voluntary ass rape.
@CatPlusPlus You don't have any current C++ projects.. Or you simply don't want to use it even if you could?
Although D3D's UMD/KMD has ways of optimizing it, OpenGL doesn't care. If you say structure of arrays, it accepts it.
user142019
TONY
00:26
@StackedCrooked Both
@DomagojPandža Not worth the risk, I'm guessing.
user142019
LONG TIME NO SEE
TOOONYYYY
@TonyTheLion You back? :D
00:27
Wassap!!
user142019
@DomagojPandža no, he's not back. :v
Is it because I'm b(l)ack?
For now I'm here, but still on holiday.
user142019
@TonyTheLion time to sleep.
user142019
@DomagojPandža yes and I'm a racist.
00:27
Lol
I don't feel like writing anything really
It's going to be another unfinished crap project so w/e
user142019
Write a book about how terrible programming is.
Then don't write anything
I'd love to cheer Cat up somehow. :D
Heh, we could give it a try :)
user142019
00:29
I'm going to cheer him up by leaving the room.
user142019
Bye.
Go back in time and make me strong, stupid and not interested in computers
@CatPlusPlus But we like you interested in computers and smart. <333
00:30
I don't know what you're talking about there was no 'and' there
Computers are the best thing this world has to offer.
@ThePhD Yeah right
Oh Cat, you just need some love <3
I'm glad I'm not a girl.
That's a funny way to spell alcohol
00:31
I would have banged half the chat by now.
@StackedCrooked Beer?
@CatPlusPlus I think we only need to go back in time before Kyrostat fell apart. That's about the time you lost the will to code.
@MartinJames Hm, now I'm not sure anymore..
Well, he put some really beautiful work into Kyrostat. Even set up a wonderful build machine for us.
It was beautiful CI.
Yeah, the build system was glorious.
00:32
I'm a bit biased, and a bit drunk.
why am I so amazing?
@Crowz 'Cause you just are, honeybunches. <33
@ThePhD Eeuw.
@StackedCrooked What? You guys are a fun bunch.
00:34
Then again, that's assuming as a girl I'd be a nymphomaniac or something...
.... Nah, I'd probably go straight for Rapptz, Xeo, or Cat. <3
Maybe I should get back to Age of Empires.
Depending on my living location.
@StackedCrooked Age of Mythology. <3
Also, is there some fresh RTS?
Nine pints of Doom Bar, plus live music, and I'm quite happy to accept that owning pointers and unions are bad. Just don't care tonite 'cos good time :)
Robot would be fair game too, but he's in the same area as Xeo, so Xeo wins by default.
00:35
@DomagojPandža I read that's good. I never played it though.
I'm really in the mood.
@DomagojPandža RTS is dead. Except for Starcraft.
@DomagojPandža There's uh Stacraft 2 and uh
Or Age of Empires II HD. Which is still the same 1999 game but with higher resolution.
There's AI War which is supposedly good but I haven't had time to get into it really
00:37
Not only would Kyrostat be a magnificent game, it would be a magnificent revival of a dead genre. :$
Ahahah right
Jesus, I've never been so attached to a failed project.
Let's start a new one together, Domagoj. <3
I don't even remember the game concept of Kyrostat anymore.
@StackedCrooked D:<
3D Space RTS DANIT
EVERYONE SHOULD REMEMBER
D:<
GALAXY-SCALE
00:40
I remember the live document vividly. There was quite a bit of energy thrust upon it. The cohesion of a usually chaotic group of Regulars was surprising.
Nobody was mad. Too much. Or too long.
Ahaha cohesion
Apparently it didn't last beyond your departure. =[
@DomagojPandža I don't think you paid too much attention
When you disappeared most everyone apparently became dispirited.
By the time I got there... well.
Melak, me, and thecoshman were the only ones on it.
And I've still never committed my changes, after fighting to get scons to work :3c
00:41
@DomagojPandža It was the first time we tried to make something together. We were still naive :)
@EtiennedeMartel Why are her tits casting the spells?
@EtiennedeMartel Ugh that's terrible
It wasn't really just me, but my work was supposed to set the rendering basis for it. And well, I really had to remove myself from everything for a good while. I'm not really good at dealing with death, I regret not sticking it out.
It's okay Doma, we still love you. <3
@EtiennedeMartel Saggy.
00:44
Often, I find myself wanting to write a really small demo to get you guys onboard again. But Cat's lost even more willpower points since then.
Ell
Ell
On board to what?
I got plans for an RTS, but it's ambitious as fuck and would require a tremendous amount of server side work.
Ell
Ell
My game is also over ambitious
Sooo you do what you guys want. My thing? Gonna be done in about 10 years or so.
00:46
@EtiennedeMartel I wouldn't if I were you. Look at what happened to SimCity
Ell
Ell
Mine too.
My games are simple.
THey're easy.
But I have 3 ideas and I'm the only one working on them.
So, hah.
@Borgleader It's a freemium almost-massively multiplayer RTS.
@EtiennedeMartel I really have trouble imagining games in 10 years. Their mere existence, really. In the "classic format".
Oh hello new kind of name change prompt on YouTube
@EtiennedeMartel That's definitely ambitious as fuck
Do you have a business model or somethin
00:48
@DomagojPandža I think they'll still be there, but for a niche appeal.
@CatPlusPlus Monetization should be part of the core design.
@EtiennedeMartel I was making a oke about the tremendous server side work :(
These days, you just don't make the game and then ship it in a 60$ box.
You think right from the start how you're going to sell it.
Yeah, people are getting ass-tight with money for games and the production costs are skyrocketing.
People who did freemium right: Riot
Production costs are only skyrocketing because people are doing it wrong.
They're still focusing on next-gen-graphics. As nice as they are, they're not really as necessary as many people think.
We should be leaving next-gen-graphics for Hollywood to push.
Not video games.
00:50
Gamers want graphics over gameplay. And while it is not that hard to deliver better iterations of engines, the strain put on artists is fucking retarded nowadays. I know CryTek freelance artists who worked on medium-sized areas for over a month.
I think there's a believable cutoff.
@DomagojPandža Gamers don't want that. Reviewers want that. Execs want that.
Gamers don't care.
@DomagojPandža People need to start to find ways of speeding up the artists' workflow and I think tools like dDo/nDo2 can help a lot.
@EtiennedeMartel Execs have all the money.
More people bought BLOPS2 than BF3, and BF3 was fucking better in the graphics department.
00:52
@Borgleader Yup, better tools > better renderers
I don't know how,
@EtiennedeMartel Bad example, that game is tiedto CoD it was going to sell regardless.
but execs made giant companies and got all th emoney.
@EtiennedeMartel Isn't that due to namesake? Like Apple devices?
What we'll see is an increase in development for better tools and better middleware.
To radically cut development costs.
00:52
They sucked it up.
Because let's face it: our tools suck.
They suck tremendously.
But BF3 had such beautiful flashlight effect
@EtiennedeMartel Amen to that.
Even the coding tools suck.
There's still so much grunt work involved in making games, it's not even funny.
They suck hard.
00:53
YOU ARE BEING SO NEGATIVE YOU HATE EVERYTHING
@CatPlusPlus We're being realistic. <3
@CatPlusPlus I don't hate you.
Just like you.
@CatPlusPlus I liked how human eyes had camera dirt smudges that got illuminated.
This is what I get when I say a tool sucks
00:53
If you want to halve the size of development teams, you're gonna have to replace the missing personnel with software.
@EtiennedeMartel Or just lay off an entire studio and hate everyone and tell them to do 2x the work for less pay.
I mean, the first time I saw Euphoria, it blew my fucking mind.
I was like "What? You don't need animators anymore?"
And also, 3ds max has some of the crappiest GUIs ever designed. I mean, even Photoshop isn't that bad.
(Seriously though, Photoshop is so well designed)
Photoshop got progressively better.
I can't use 3DS Max properly. The UI baffles me every time
I can never work in 3ds Max or Maya or Blender.
It's something you have to specialize in.
@ThePhD Have you tried Blender post 2.49?
the UI got massively better
I looked at Blender once and said "fuck it I'm outta here"
So, we got all these crappy tools and frameworks that cripple our development time, and designers who either don't know what they want or are pressured by the suits who don't know what the fuck they're talking about.
@CatPlusPlus did i look like this?
00:58
I don't remember
Because that's the old UI (up to 2.49)
@EtiennedeMartel The problem is, I've always wanted to develop 3D art tools, but it's really hard to sell them. Artists are stubborn and slow to change. They suffered with 3ds max, Mudbox, Maya, Zbrush etc. and it's hard to say "Hey, try this."
I have 2.65

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