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04:00
@Telkitty well, I do too sometimes, but I'd rather get the idea of what someone's actual programming practices are like, personally
@Telkitty induction brain teasers are kind of nice though--have you ever heard the blue-eyed islanders one? first heard that one in an interview
user1357851
@StephenLin what is it?
100 blue eyed men on an island sound familiar?
@Xeo That's out of the comfort zone and into the fire.
let me see if i can find a link that doesn't give away the answer
user1357851
But then I can always find one that has the answer? :p
Xeo
Xeo
04:03
@StephenLin That's a hard one.
yes i know but it's less fun for you if you do that
i'm not here to interview you :D
Xeo
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel Well, it seems that some other coder really fucked up the client-side. The code seems to be a horrible horrible mess, and now that coder has even called in sick for a week. There's only one other client coder who worked on other parts of the code base, and he's simply overwhelmed by the amount of refactoring that is necessary.
@Xeo I suppose, xkcd claims it's hard too but I got it myself within an interview without too many hints...fail at other ones that seem to be easier though...it's always kind of random walk until you happen to hit the magic a-ha threshold
Xeo
Xeo
So, I agreed that I'd try to help, but they also made it clear that I could bail out of it if it really wasn't working out (i.e., me actually creating more work for that other code, or me totally not being comfortable with Flash).
I will see that I get back to server coding, though, as soon as that's done with. :)
@Telkitty, the xkcd writeup is kind of crappy to be honest
user1357851
04:09
It is
well, the one thing you really need to know clarify (if you're trying to figure this out) is that everything happens discretely at one time of the day, at a one particular time (eg. noon, like in the xkcd version)...everyone who knows their eye color at that time must leave (or actually kill themselves, in the less sanitized version) and then nothing can happen again until the next day
on the first day, someone says "i see someone with blue eyes", but nothing happens that day (call that day 0), so the next day at noon is the soonest anyone could leave (or "kill themselves")
i don't think the puzzle works unless you know that there are discrete timesteps like that
continuous time screws it up
user1357851
@StephenLin and I am not sure the answer is correct either: consider a prisoner's fate problem: a prisoner is condemned to death, he was told he has maximum a week to live and he will be told a day earlier when the execution will be carried out. But when he will die would be a mystery (he can not guess otherwise he will not be excuted). He thought to himself he could not be excuted.
@Telkitty that's the "unexpected hanging" paradox i think
user1357851
yeah
04:17
that's more of a language semantics issue
user1357851
?
the blue-eyed islanders is pretty unambiguous though, as long as the problem is worded well enough
user1357851
I am not sure we are talking about the same thing
Xeo
Xeo
@StephenLin I don't see why, to be honest. You don't need discrete steps as far as I can tell. I don't think you even need to have the Guru say anything after the first noon.
@Xeo no, the guru doesn't say anything past the first noon, but you need to sync to discrete time intervals to do the induction, i think
user1357851
04:19
the prisoner thought he would not be executed because: it can not be on the last day, because if he was not executed on the 6th, then he knew he would be on the 7th due to rule 1), thus he could not be executed due to rule 2)
user1357851
rule 1: he will be told a day earlier when the execution will be carried out
user1357851
rule 2: he can not guess which day otherwise he will not be excuted
@Xeo if people can leave or kill themselves after any arbitrary amount of time after figuring out their eye color, then it doesn't really work, i think
0
Q: How do I split a string into two strings using a comma, and store the strings? (C++)

Josh ClaryI looked to see if this had been asked before, but all I got was answers for Java. I have to read first names and last names from a file, in the format of (lastname,firstname). The program requires us to (among other things), display the name in the format of (firstname lastname), with a space in...

dupe.
Xeo
Xeo
@StephenLin Hm... ah, well, yeah. "Things only happen at a certain time each day" can be considered to introduce discrete time intervals.
That's the killing / the ferry
user1357851
04:22
now he can not be executed on 6th, because if he's not executed on 5th and he can not be executed on the 7th, then it has to 6th, but because of rule 2) if he knows he can not be executed
@Xeo yeah, but it's a bit unclear from the xkcd thing--imho it should be clear that everyone decides all at once whether to take the ferry with the information they have before knowing if anyone else is taking the ferry that day
user1357851
same thing goes to 5th 4th and back to the 1st day
@Xeo otherwise you could imagine them all watching each other deciding whether to take the ferry or not, and deciding whether to go too depending on what other peopel do, in which case it doesn't work
user1357851
but guess what, he's executed on the 3rd day and it was totally unexpected (he did not guess it)
@Telkitty yes, I'm familiar with the paradox, but the idea (imho) is that the statement "you will be executed on a day what will be a suprise to you) or however it's worded is not well formed
as in it's not a valid logical predicate
the blue-eyed islanders puzzle (afaik) doesn't suffer from any issue like that, it's pretty unambiguous
user1357851
04:24
@StephenLin how so?
because it's self-referential
well, that's my take on it anyway
but it's like a recursive function with no fixed point, basically
user1357851
same with your island problem
user1357851
as soon as it's more than 2 people, condition no longer holds
no, it's not (have you seen the answer already?)
Xeo
Xeo
@StephenLin Wait, that's the solution, so I don't see how it can't work. If you see only one person with blue eyes, but he doesn't do shit, you can infer that you also have blue eyes - so you decide to go depending on what other people do.
04:26
no, there's no problem with it (this has been discussed ad nauseum btw, it's on terrence tao's blog too)
user1357851
yeah back from the last one (same as the last day in prisoner's fate problem)
user1357851
works for one, works for two
user1357851
doesn't work for more than 2
Xeo
Xeo
@Telkitty Works for three. And four. And five...
@Xeo but you can only use that inference the next day
@Xeo you can't start infering things on the same day, you have to observe who leaves (if any) and then use that information the next day
Xeo
Xeo
04:27
@StephenLin Ah, that's how you mean it.
user1357851
@Xeo tell me what makes brown eyed people stop thinking they have blue eyes after 2nd day?
Xeo
Xeo
@Telkitty Nothing.
On the 100th day (or 101st, depending on how you start it), all blue eyed people leave, so everyone that hasn't figured out their eye color realizes they don't have blue.
@Telkitty, it works..if there's 1 person, then on the first day he must kill himself (because he's the only person that could have blue eyes, since he see only brown eyes)
Xeo
Xeo
@Telkitty When three people with blue eyes are on the island, all being perfect logicians, they know how the algorithm works for two people. So you (having blue eyes) see two others with blue eyes. If they were the only ones, they'd both leave at the second day. Not doing that, you realize that you too must have blue eyes, since there's nobody else.
And for four people, it works the same way - every one of them knows how it works for three people.
And so on and so on.
it's about "common knowledge"
for N > 1, everyone knows that someone has blue eyes
but, say, for N = 2 not everyone knows that everyone knows that someone has blue eyes
04:31
I just watched Star Trek: Enterprise. If I get over all the blasphemy, it's actually quite good.
and for N = 3, not everyone knows that everyone knows that everyone knows that someone has blue eyes
etc.
Xeo
Xeo
Brown-eyed people always see one more blue-eyed person than the blue-eyed persons themselves, so if they also had blue eyes, the other 100 blue-eyed people wouldn't have left on day 100
But whatever, it's 5:30am and I need to get up in 3h.
G'night
'night Xeo.
user1357851
Oh wait, I forgot, there was no one else mentioned anything about not saying "from now on if you know your have blue eyes you can leave this island"
user1357851
the start condition can be anything
04:35
@Telkitty if you want to see how protracted internet debates about logic puzzles can be you should also google "the monty hall problem" and "boy or girl paradox"
user1357851
it is a rather retarded question
user1357851
it is actually saying there is a counter, it will eventually tell you how many blue eyed people there are on the island
@Telkitty, no, you can't do that
@Telkitty, you have to say "there is at least one person with blue eyes on this island" and everybody has to hear it and everybody has to know that everyone hears it
or something to that effect
user1357851
the wizard can be saying anything, as long as it is a start condition
just saying "you can start now" doesn't work
no, it's not
the induction can't start
it only works because the base case does
and the base case only works because if N == 1, that person learns he's the one person with blue eyes immediately, and everyone else learns that he learns that too
user1357851
04:38
then days are a conunter, you know how many blue eyed there are, then on the counter points to the total number of the blue eyed person, and you can see how many there are if it is greater by 1, then you leave
user1357851
simple
Xeo
Xeo
@Telkitty Sure, that's the solution - but could you also explain it in a logic way?
user1357851
@StephenLin yes it does, if the wizard says "from today if you know your are blue eyed you can leave"
@telkitty, no, it doesn't, this is one of the longest arguments that people get into about this
Xeo
Xeo
@Telkitty If the wizard never says that he sees atleast one blue-eyed person, then the base-case can't infer that he's the only one
No base case, no induction
No solution
Xeo out.
user1357851
04:40
while, if there are k blue eyed person (k > 2), and one day a wizard says "from today if you know your are blue eyed you can leave"
@telkitty, just because everyone sees at least one blue-eyed person doesn't mean that everybody knows that everybody knows that everybody knows (ad infinitum) that there is at least one blue-eyed person on the island
user1357851
then it will take k day for every one to leave
@telkitty, no, seriously, I promise you that's not the case
user1357851
if there are 5 people with blue eyes, then 1 can see 4 other blue eyed people
Xeo
Xeo
@Telkitty Prove it
user1357851
04:41
say 3 blue eyed, 2 brown, easy enough?
user1357851
1st day, wizard says 'you may start'
user1357851
2nd day nobody leaves, coz blue eyed see 2 others
user1357851
3rd nobody leaves, coz 2 others
@telkitty, no one leaves because no one knows anything new at all at that point, and no one gains any knowledge from no one leaving
user1357851
4th day all blue eyed leaves
04:43
@telkitty, the only reason it works is because they gain knowledge from the fact that no one leaves
user1357851
yes
and for that to work, the base case must work
user1357851
days = counters
user1357851
abstraction
user1357851
# of blue eyes = number of days
user1357851
04:44
you can see all other blue eyed people
@telkitty, you're assuming everybody alredy has the # of blue eyes == number of days algorithm in their head and are working based on that
user1357851
yes, they are rational
but they can't work based on that until they prove it and prove that everyone has the knowledge to start working based on it
user1357851
they are not blind
@telkitty, but the only way the logic works to begin with is by considering the N == 1 case
@Telkitty if there are two people with blue eyes, then everyone sees at least one blue eyed person, but they don't know if the person they see with blue eyes sees one or zero blue eyes
user1357851
04:46
so they would not leave on the next dawe
user1357851
@StephenLin you need to think abstractly
hah, no, seriously, your objection is very very common
it's been discussed over and over
there's like 100 pages of this
if you want to go into the xkcd forums and bring it up again, you can
it happens all the time
same with terrence tao's blog
there's a wikipedia article about it too
Common knowledge is a special kind of knowledge for a group of s. There is common knowledge of p in a group of agents G when all the agents in G know p, they all know that they know p, they all know that they all know that they know p, and so on ad infinitum. The concept was first introduced in the philosophical literature by David Kellogg Lewis in his study Convention (1969). It was first given a mathematical formulation in a set-theoretical framework by Robert Aumann (1976). Computer scientists grew an interest in the subject of epistemic logic in general – and of common know...
user1357851
I am not, I am good at problem solving, I solve puzzle as a pass time, I have more important things to do :P
user1357851
now off to coding
hah, ok
seriously though, once you get it it's pretty interesting logically
Objection 11. I agree with the solution almost completely. However, it appears that the effect of the Guru's action is curious: It triggers an arbitrary countdown, synchronizing the islanders, without actually doing anything....
05:08
Damn you, MSVC11.
05:18
@DomagojPandža Hm?
Still no love for C++11's deleted methods.
Nope.
Sandy Vagina Cunts.
do they have real varadics yet, or still the fake ones?
user1357851
05:35
working with multimaps is a lot lamer than I thought
:|
Hm?
Well
std::multimap<std::string,std::string> map2;
map2["hm?"] = "testing";
error: no match for 'operator[]' in 'map2["hm?"]'
:(
Lol
Well it's more of a TIL thing since I've never used it.
05:37
Get owned.
none of the reference sites have accessors listed
cpx
cpx
Hi
GUYS.
I'm going to sleep.
That is all.
Good night, m'lord. <3
cpx
cpx
05:39
Finally, I got a chance to say 'Hi'.
how does multimap access elements? holy shit
dang verbose c++ errors.
user1357851
lord? what about ladies? >_<
I've never met a female worthy of the term.
user1357851
there is a difference between your lack of knowledge and no existence of ladies
Can anyone beat my 805 column template error code? :(
nvm I did 1061
Xeo
Xeo
05:51
WTF are you doing?
should have kept looking
@Xeo Writing C++.
Xeo
Xeo
You're doing something terribly wrong, though
yeah I know, if I wasn't I wouldn't have gotten errors.
Xeo
Xeo
Well, implementation bugs may also play into that.
Anyways, what are you trying to do?
something stupid really
trying to have a map within a multimap
05:58
@ScottW ?
user1357851
@ScottW there is the iphone forum
user1357851
but you can ask
user142019
lol
objective-c is fine
@ScottW i lose my sense of humor after midnight, it's a disease
@ScottW programmers are born at night so it makes sense
@ScottW lol, a vampire programmer ?
@ScottW lol
06:14
Quick question. What happens in this piece of code?
T foo = Func(foo.method());
What's called first, foo's copy constructor, Func() or foo.method()?
Garbage-Initialized (?) Foo -> foo.method() (returns) -> Func( foo ) -> copy ctor into T foo.
user1357851
@ScottW yes it would be awesome if the vampire were drawn to Bella because her website were too attractive to hackers
user1357851
did I say vampire, I meant hacker ... wiki said his name was Edward
@R.MartinhoFernandes I have guessed that as so.
06:17
wait it's UB even in C++11?
Anyway, I saw a star "blink" at @ThePhD 's post.
@MarkGarcia Someone saw what I said and was so deeply enraged they tried to delete my post. But then they ended up starring it for a split second and the universe was about to explode.
static_assert(std::is_same<wheels::Unqualified<char const[1]>, char[1]>(), "arrays are weird");
static_assert(std::is_same<wheels::Unqualified<char const*>, char const*>(), "oh gawd, the inconsistency");
:D
Ain't C++ just grand?
user1357851
@AmberRoxanna BTW hey Cicade
06:19
I've made this test: coliru.stacked-crooked.com/…
Any thoughts?
user1357851
What are you trying to do?
@Telkitty what?
user1357851
@R.MartinhoFernandes BTW robot your avatar is no better than my Princess Peach image
I thought it would be an error for a lambda to capture references in that way.
You can use references to uninitialised variables safely in limited ways.
06:22
@JerryCoffin You make me glad that I dropped out of the program. :P
Wow, I've never really read the Java coding conventions before... I'm starting to hate some of them.
Hehe. An all reference/circular reference version: coliru.stacked-crooked.com/…
"Put declarations only at the beginning of blocks. (A block is any code surrounded by curly braces "{" and "}".) Don't wait to declare variables until their first use; it can confuse the unwary programmer and hamper code portability within the scope."
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
@AmberRoxanna I see that you have joined most rooms like one person I know [here].
@MarkGarcia who?
@R.MartinhoFernandes, That reminds me of how my dad used to make octopus wieners on a sea of peas with goldfish crackers in them.
@AmberRoxanna Can't clearly remember. I think it's ThePhd...
@MarkGarcia lol, i just forget to leave the rooms thats all
06:28
@R.MartinhoFernandes Damn. I thought The Scream was with the same colors as Starry Night.
Nope, it's in the colours of bacon!
@R.MartinhoFernandes Reactions of those served with that:
3 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f4/The_Scream.jpg)
user1357851
@Telkitty you made that?
@ScottW Wait. You're hungry because of those oranges?
user1357851
06:34
@AmberRoxanna I wish
@Telkitty haha still very cool
user1357851
@MarkGarcia no, he saw the duckling in your avatar ...
@MarkGarcia lol nice duck
@Telkitty Why do you always open that up!
@MarkGarcia that scared me
06:36
It says rawr.
user142019
Hallo.
Ollah.
user142019
It's a wonder.
user142019
My bus was on time.
06:40
@Zoidberg Or maybe it's you that's now on time.
:)
user142019
I should have bought the bus driver a present for his exceptional being-on-time skills.
user142019
Lekker.
user142019
kroket.
user142019
Bah kaas-ui.
user142019
Almost as bad as zuurkool.
06:44
@ScottW What's "kaasui"? Cashew?
Oh
-1
Q: URGENT how to put some lines from a text file to an array list and print them

user2185303i have a text files which have some details of phone numbers i want to read only numbers and put them in an array and them print them Data is: "From: 9822012345 To: 9823098230, 9811098123 Timestamp: 1363478914 TransmissionID: T4 Message Text: What is Rajanikanth's gmail address? gmail@rajanika...

^^ URGENT!!!
hahaha
You must have an RSS feed for those questions
I never find them :(
Xeo
Xeo
10k Tools, likely
@Xeo nope. Fresh off the homepage.
the wild Jon Skeet commented
user1357851
06:55
duck soup:
user1357851
@Telkitty that's mean
lol
@Telkitty You... you!...
user1357851
Lol time to change avatar maybe :p
06:57
@Telkitty Any suggestions? google.com.ph/…
user1357851
why duck, why!!
@Telkitty duckoverflow™
user1357851
user1357851
Tasty!!! ... I mean :x
user1357851
07:12
Is that your dog's name, Arya?
user142019
07:33
@ScottW lazy motherfucker.
Xeo
Xeo
07:47
Y'know what I like about Super Hexagon? Can't blame anybody but yourself.
07:58
6
A: Moderator name appears twice on deleted post

Marc Gravellasdlkjaslkdj lkasjdlkasjdlk asjdalksj

@Xeo huh. how about, blame the sadist game designers
@Mysticial Why can't we "normal" users do that without being gang-banged!
@MarkGarcia read the comments
Marc made that post and deleted it to make sure the bug was fixed. Then Will undeleted it and left that comment.
Hey that's not fair! I deleted this post myself - I just wanted something to see the "deleted by". I call "foul" on a spurious undelete by someone who I @Won't mention... i.stack.imgur.com/T9vug.pngMarc Gravell Mar 13 at 15:46
Dat pun :)
user142019
@Mysticial lol
08:02
@Mysticial Hahaha. I didn't see that.
user142019
If you analyse something, you turn it into an ass.
user1357851
asses don't analyse anything, that's why they are called dumbasses
user1357851
then you have the smart asses, those are the asses that do analyse, but since they are born dumb so even if they analyse, no good would come out
anal-yse
mawning!
I forgot how disgusting it is to describe a pixel format on Windows.
So much tedious typing.
Mawning, Tony. Ready for work?
cpx
cpx
08:19
mawning
There is no such thing as ready for work.
cpx
cpx
So, I was thinking how can I temporarily put off pictures and youtube links from the transcript as they appear? Due to heavy background downloading internet traffic usage, they take a lot of time to load up.
Some of may think that I do pirate downloading, lol.
@cpx just tell people not to do it. It's generally annoying as hell when half the screen is full of peoples oh-so-funny meme pictures
cpx
cpx
Yeah, they are pretty much useless.
Opps.
I'd rather prefer just a link to them.
So, people can follow it if they want.
yup
08:31
@DomagojPandža I'm never ready for work.
@Thomas wow! Apparently I'm a l33th4x0r now too. That took me < 5 minutes using python (I'm learning python) and I have no notable cryptanalysis experience... :) — sehe 7 secs ago
@cpx In opera, I can hit 'I' and all images will be gone and loading suppressed
cpx
cpx
@sehe Luckily, I'm on opera. I was going use 'block content' as the last option but it seems that would completely make the content and also the links disappear.
@cpx Woot for Opera!
@codinghorror Erm. I use it -exclusively- because I like it that much. What _is_ wrong with Opera anyways? (Note: I don't mean Opera Mini)
08:46
It always surprises me when two Opera users meet. What are the odds of that?
ohai jalf, how are you?
@TonyTheLion eh, back at work after a few days with the flu... Still feeling a bit icky
@jalf oh another one with flu. At work here it's running abound, half my coworkers have already had it.
6
Q: Is there a tool to help identify linker errors?

gil_moC++ link errors are most of the times the hardest to nail down. Even in VS2012, The linker messages are long, cryptic and with mangled symbols, but the worst part is - there is no helper tool to show you where the error occurs, and you can spend very long frustrating minutes trying to figure out ...

I doubt such a tool exists besides the compiler
@TonyTheLion yeah, it's pretty great
morning all :)
08:52
@jalf you know that could be interpreted the wrong way. It took me 15 seconds to figure out what you meant by that.
:|
@thecoshman mawning pirate
@TonyTheLion lion
arrr
that's the spirit lad
aye
@thecoshman rum?
@TonyTheLion oooh, be cracking jokes will ye laddie?
well ye can keep ye filthy puns of me.
08:55
lol
so what you doing today?
gohc (good old hearty chuckle)
@TonyTheLion dodging work
praying that this light fluff of snow evolves into a full on blizzard, and we get the rest week off
hehe
@thecoshman When you in the UK again?

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