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16:00
"I have to"
That's how most -10 questions start
Because binding a RenderTarget as input in one step and output as another violently destroys the driver and automatically FORCES the PixelShader to unbind itself.
So I'm adding a little safety.
I assume the RenderTarget is something like an FBO
Yep.
and if in directx FBO binds mess with the shader objects
then welp, let's talk about the "state"
It doesn't have to do with other shader objects. It has to do with itself.
16:02
you aren't allowed to bind a render target as both input and output for some silly reason :p
that's lame
no rendering feedback?
at all?
That's not lame.
not at the same time anyway
@ThePhD that's hell lame
o_O
Are you mad?
16:02
@ThePhD Do you know what feedback is?
@BartekBanachewicz if you want to feed back you'll need to double buffer and swap, AFAIK
Where dafuq is my screen session open.
@R.MartinhoFernandes in a terminal/shell/thing/idk?
Let's take for example the following shader:
16:03
@melak47 Not on this machine, and all others are turned off...
texture Texture0;
sampler Texture0Sampler;

void QuadVertex ( inout float4 position : SV_Position,
			  	inout float4 color : COLOR0,
				inout float2 tex : TEXCOORD0 ) {

	position = mul(position, ViewProjection);
}

float4 QuadPixel (  float4 pos : SV_Position,
				float4 color : COLOR0,
				float2 tex : TEXCOORD0 ) : SV_Target0 {

	return tex2D( Texture0Sampler, tex ) * color;
}
This is a simple texture shader.
i am going for a bus, so I'll read it home
@R.MartinhoFernandes well then, China?
read about feedback first @ThePhD
What D3D does not allow you to do is bind an FBO to SV_Target0, and also to Texture0.
Because that means you're reading from what you're writing to.
And that's catastrophically silly.
16:05
@Xeo Wait, why do you use g$?
@BartekBanachewicz opengl.org says you can't sample from a texture and write to it at once, either
g$ is end of screen line, $ is end of line.
well, you can, but it's UB
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh
Feedback Rendering has to do with vertices. I don't know what Bartek is referring to.
16:07
If you have wrapping lines they behave differently, and I struggle to find g$ particularly useful in that case.
Reading to and writing from a texture at the same time is UB everywhere, period.
It's not an D3D or OpenGL thing.
It's a fundamental law of not-having-deadlocks and not-having-race-conditions.
I'm going through our entire code base, replacing our custom string class with std::string.
@EtiennedeMartel haha
@EtiennedeMartel Why the huge refactor?
What functionality did your custom string class provide? Bugs?
16:09
@ThePhD Because we're working on a major version, so we can dump away some legacy.
... You guys already have "legacy" code?
@R.MartinhoFernandes Let's just say it was there back when we had to support platforms with poor standard support.
Ooh.
This isn't BB.
Gotcha.
@ThePhD Ludia is, what, five years old?
I don't know what Ludia is.
16:10
I'm telling you, the Wii has left some numerous scars in our code base.
Ah.
@EtiennedeMartel You do Wii programming?
Why go to std::string though?
@ShotgunNinja No.
Can't you pick up a more Unicode-friendly library?
16:11
@ThePhD Baby steps.
We use UTF-8 exlusively.
@EtiennedeMartel Okay then.
Fistpump Utf8 !
@ScottW It's just a container of bytes.
@ThePhD std::string is not unfriendly.
We treat it as UTF-8.
16:12
@ScottW You just have to have string_read and string_write around std::string.
Also, I'm fairly certain you guys are the only StackOverflow chatroom (aside from Javascript) which follows the SO question guidelines.
C# is starting to degrade into a cesspool of poorly-asked questions.
Wha'ts Konrad doing in the VB department: stackoverflow.com/a/15298115/85371
Or maybe it's just dinnertime in India.
@ShotgunNinja What? We follow guidelines? We'll have to work on fixing that!
@sehe Repwhoring?
16:13
@sehe Nothing new, actually.
He's mentioned that he likes VB before.
@JerryCoffin No, you guys just know what the hell you're talking about. The guidelines follow you.
@ShotgunNinja In Soviet Lounge...
ITT: trivial questions get cheerful responses
@ThePhD Anyway, we use UTF-16 in some places in the Windows-specific code. Otherwise, UTF-8 across all platforms.
@ThePhD ikr
16:13
@EtiennedeMartel StringApi <3
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, I remember him once mentioning that he prefers VB's words over C-style ascii art.
Truth be told my Custom string class just keeps an encoder around.
Case in point:
in Java, 55 secs ago, by nazar_art
@ShotgunNinja All compile without Exseption. Main point is that doesn't work correctly, coz file is 100% good coding and here:
"file is 100% good coding"
@R.MartinhoFernandes Does ogonek keep the encoder it uses around as a class member for text8 and friends? Or are all encodings specified to be static/default-constructible?
That should be on a t-shirt
16:15
@ThePhD Encoders are compile-time only.
Ah.
@ScottW You could, but you'd probably want to store them in a std::basic_string<u16_t> (where u16_t is some type appropriate for a single UTF-16 code point -- possibly short).
There's no point in storing anything if the encoder is an empty class.
@ScottW Not really, because UTF-16 code units are 16 bits, so that's too large for a char.
any_text type erases it, but that's all.
16:16
so any_text stores an encoder, but the rest don't?
@EtiennedeMartel ...probably, anyway (in theory, there's nothing to stop char from being 16 bits, even though it virtually never actually is).
@EtiennedeMartel Haha! but there's an encoding scheme named UTF-16, and that means bytes.
@JerryCoffin char16_t, and it's a codeunit, not codepoint.
@DeadMG ...on a compiler that supports it (and yes, my mistake).
woof.
16:17
@ThePhD Yes, and no. It doesn't store it because there's nothing to store. But it stores enough information to use it correctly.
Are char16_t just typedefs?
@R.MartinhoFernandes ... You've confused me. @___@
@ThePhD Nope, fresh primitives.
@ScottW woof.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Prout prout.
16:18
@ThePhD On VS, yes. They should be distinct types, however.
@DeadMG How many codepoints need more than one codeunit?
@DeadMG Any compilers that support it?
@MartinJames All not in the BMP.
@ThePhD Latest Clang and GCC both, but not MSVC.
~Sigh~
@MartinJames The vast majority.
16:18
@DeadMG :)
(I love throwing 100% accurate but misleading curve balls)
Oh, Microsoft. Your Sandy Vagina Cunts continue to displease the hearts of men and lesbians across the CS industry. =[
std::basic_string<TCHAR>.
Gotta love that POS.
@EtiennedeMartel Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
OK, right. How many UTF-16 codepoints need more than one codeunit?
16:19
@ThePhD Microsoft Sandy Vagina Cunts... OH I GET IT
@MartinJames There's no such thing as a UTF-16 codepoint.
@DeadMG OK, that's fine by me.
@MartinJames Erm, "How many <cut> codepoints need more than one <paste>UTF-16 codeunit?" is what you mean?
@MartinJames "How many codepoints require more than one UTF-16 code unit?" FTFY.
@R.MartinhoFernandes > "How many <cut /> codepoints need more than one <paste />UTF-16 codeunit?" is what you mean?
16:20
Oh fuck..
Lol.
@MartinJames About 1 million, i.e., the vast majority.
Don't get into the UNicode Brawl here.
You'll lose immensely, @MartinJames :D
2 mins ago, by DeadMG
@MartinJames All not in the BMP.
How the fuck did a 2 slip in there?
16:21
To be specific, UNICODE_CHARACTER_COUNT - 655335
... 65335? Or 655355?
@ThePhD extra 3 in there. It should be 65535.
@ThePhD There are 1114112 code points.
Forget it - we all know what you mean.
@ShotgunNinja Nope.
16:22
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh, right. Never mind. Different range of code points.
Of those 1114112, 1048576 need two UTF-16 code units.
1048577 <--- that many
Awww
He beat me to it =[
More than 90%.
@ScottW Unicode shit - thy're all beating me up about it, (probably rightly).
UTF8 can only handle.... ASCII, basically.
16:24
More than 90%.
With 1 code unit.
More than 99% actually.
114112 - 255
@ThePhD s/255/128/
o_O
7-bits or 8?
16:25
And you missed a 1 too.
Oh wait, for legacy purposes there's like the black hole of 128 characters in ASCII that mean nothing.
@ThePhD No.
ASCII has only 128 characters. Period.
1 million plus 'things'?
Does UTF8 assign stuff to the other 128 characters in the 128+ range (to 256)?
Not sure what you mean.
Bytes 0x80-0xFF in UTF-8 are bytes in multibyte sequences. They don't represent any character by themselves.
16:27
Like, UTF8 spans more than 7 bits (it utilizes all 8 bits, especially in code unit sequences to signal there are more characters).
Oooh.
Well, okay then.
Robot, will you one day review my "Unicode" encoding design? <3
For my strings 'n' stuff.
user1182183
dammit, I've been dissasembling a lib file all day long just to find out that void Crack(){ extern char key256init;key256init = 1; } is enough, dunno, warn the developers about their stupidity or leave it alone?
@GamErix Not sure what you're asking here. You lost me at "enough, dunno, warn"
Urgh.
Just noticed our custom string class had a toLower and a toUpper method.
user1182183
@ShotgunNinja "cracking" their license system is as easy as extern char key256init; key256init = 1;
@EtiennedeMartel Free functions!
user1182183
16:32
I think I should report it,;>
@ThePhD Also, guess how they handled the lowering? For each character, char = lowercase(char). In UTF-8. /cc @R.MartinhoFernandes
user1182183
but I don't want problems
user1182183
XD
@EtiennedeMartel :3c
@EtiennedeMartel hehe
16:33
@EtiennedeMartel Ooh err...
Actually, my ToLower() isn't that sophisticated.
(I mention "UTF-8" because the class is a glorified container of bytes, so it's really just code units)
@GamErix lololololol
Right now, I only check codepoints in the ASCII range.
Because I have no fucking clue how I'm going to include lowercasing data for 1 million code points.
Plus uppercasing data.
PLus wdwajdhwjadhawjhdwajhdw
@R.MartinhoFernandes Give me ogonek for VC++ ;~~~;
user1182183
@ShotgunNinja license prohibits disasembling so by helping them out I could, well, fuck myself.
16:34
Why do you need lowercasing and uppercasing anyway?
(ICU)
Don't make me use ICU. :C
@R.MartinhoFernandes Because I sometimes do case-insensitive comparison between keys.
@GamErix Wow, you're brilliant.
And by 'case insensitive' I mean 'lowercase all them bitches'.
@ThePhD That's not enough.
16:35
@ThePhD toupper(a) == toupper(b) is not a case-insensitive comparison.
they have to be case folded.
@ThePhD tolower(a) == tolower(b) is not a case-insensitive comparison.
q_q
@R.MartinhoFernandes Was just thinking, why are you telling this to me :P
What do I do? ;~;
16:36
A case-insensitive comparison.
if you need case-insensitive Unicode, you need ICU or ogonek.
and since there's no ogonek for MSVC
Don't say iiit
You can't make me use ICU and it's UTF16 nonsense!
You'll never make me do it! Neeeveeeerr!!!
@ThePhD its*
You don't need to use UnicodeString.
UTF-8 or HELL.
16:37
Don't obsess with strings.
@ThePhD Oh, I've been in hell for two years.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't need Unicode in my strings? :c
@MartinJames Oh? How is it down there? Not too hot, I hope.
You need Unicode in your algorithms.
@ShotgunNinja It's always UTF-16 degrees.
16:39
Maybe this weekend I should spend porting Ogonek to VC++.
Or at least, parts of Ogonek.
I was doing it before but those range errors and other stuff threw me for a wild ride.
There's little point in having a container that knows about encodings if you don't have algorithms to handle the text.
See, no UTF-16.
you know
it suddenly occurs to me that God is not a set.
Xeo
Xeo
Home time~
(Though that sucks a little, because ICU only supports the simple case mappings, i.e., 1-to-1, i.e., no ß=>SS)
How do you do case-folding and such?
16:42
casefold(a) == casefold(b) is a case-insensitive comparison.
Casefolding removes the "case bit" from the characters.
is the case bit the same as ASCII's case bit?
... Does ASCII have a case-bit ?
Oh.
It's just me abusing terminology. It removes any differences deriving from case.
A 1.1 megabit lookup table.
16:45
Just to add a little to the confusion: In ASCII, there is one bit that determines the difference between upper and lower case, but outside of ASCII there generally isn't.
Lovely. ._.
Rubs face.
Why u so complicated, text? :c
You know what would've been fantastic?
If they baked that kind of information into things like UTF32.
@MartinJames It's (much) worse than that -- some alphabets don't have an exact analog of what we think of as upper and lower case. Just for example, Arabic scripts generally have three different forms of any given character.
Four.
Start, middle, end, isolated.
Nevermind, no baking then~
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, I guess -- forgot about isolated.
16:47
@R.MartinhoFernandes I repeat from earlier. Oh fuck..
I guess lookup tables are out of the question then.
I can see this reaching a whole megabyte in table size, and that's just for casing issues.
All my tables use up 6 megs.
-6
Q: Architecture-Neutral, Platform-Independent and Portable Languages

user2148888On many Web-sites and books is said that Java is an architecture-neutral (a.k.a. platform-independent) and portable language. However, different explanations are given on each one, making the understanding a difficult process. Moreover, in my point of view, architecture-neutral and platform-indep...

(~12 in source code)
16:48
Combined, or each one is 6 megabytes?
I almost feel bad for him, took him a while to write that.
@ThePhD The entirety. After compilation.
What does the lookup table include?
casing?
Anyway, the textbook example for why toupper and tolower do not work for case-insensitive comparison is the greek sigmas: Σ (uppercase), σ (lowercase), and ς (lowercase, at end of word).
@Rapptz you were right - the Spiderman reboot is boring - I couldn't watch more than 15-20min of it...
16:51
tolower(Σ) == σ, σ != ς, but casefold(Σ) == casefold(ς) == casefold(σ).
@R.MartinhoFernandes OK, the Greeks go on the list, along with Koreans, Chinese, Arabic and Klingon.
It's really cold outside
@ThePhD I have tables for everything.
Oh.
@LuchianGrigore "If I Had More Time, I Would Have Written a Shorter Letter" (or in this case, shorter book).
16:52
@R.MartinhoFernandes Any more Unicode shit, and I'll be flipping them :)
Well, I'm missing collation now, but I have all the rest.
I guess I'll spend a weekend or two porting ogonek...
Maybe I'll have more knowledge than my last attempt at it.
Afterall I better understand ranges and shit.
@MartinJames Blame human writing. Unicode does a pretty decent job of making that mess marginally usable with computers.
OP Y U SINGLETONS? — Tony The Lion 10 secs ago
Okay I cooled down sorry for harsh words @Bartek
16:54
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes, which is why I'm using it. I don't have to like it, though...
@DeadMG What?
You can blame typography too. There's some crap there that exists only for the sake of typography.
@TonyTheLion God is not a set.
Set is a god, though.
@DeadMG God is real (unless declared integer).
16:56
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hmm.. I learned a bit today. Most important, the correct response to any customers asking for any case-insensitive anything.
@DeadMG It's supposed to be one entity, not a multiple of entities.
Or do you say that a template parameter is also a template?
@TonyTheLion The Christian god is supposed to be both.
@TonyTheLion According to whom? There are certainly monotheistic religions, but there are pantheistic religions as well.
16:58
@TonyTheLion The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh... well then I have misunderstood that part of Christianity until today.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I thought it was 'Seth'?
That's right: God and Jesus refer to the same entity.
The Christian doctrine of the Trinity defines God as three divine persons or hypostases: the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit. The three persons are distinct, yet are one "substance, essence or nature". A nature is what one is, while a person is who one is. The Trinity is considered to be a mystery of Christian faith. According to this doctrine, there is only one God in three persons. Each person is God, whole and entire. They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin: as the Fourth Lateran Council declared, "it is the Father who generates, the Son...
well, live and learn :)
16:58
@MartinJames That's a valid pronounciation, but I think only "Set" is the correct spelling. ICBWT
Set () or Seth (; also spelled Setesh, Sutekh, Setekh, or Suty) is a god of the desert, storms, and foreigners in ancient Egyptian religion. In later myths he is also the god of darkness and chaos. In Ancient Greek, the god's name is given as Sēth (Σήθ). In Egyptian mythology, Set is portrayed as the usurper that killed and mutilated his own brother Osiris. Osiris' wife Isis reassembled Osiris' corpse and embalmed him. Osiris' son Horus sought revenge upon Set, and the myths describe their conflicts. The death of Osiris and the battle between Horus and Set is a popular event in Egyptian ...
Ah, both work.
@R.MartinhoFernandes "I'm sorry, I am unable to accept that request as the time required for its implementation is likely to be beyond your estimates/costings for it".
@EtiennedeMartel Silly trivia of the day: the way pretzels are normally made was originally intended as a demonstration of Christianity's one god in three parts thing.

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