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6:02 PM
ugh another bad book for the collection
 
@Xeo I think that can be said, yeah.
 
sbi
> The tragedy, for those who value their reading time, is that Rousseau and Shakespeare said it all much, much better.
@DeadMG :)
 
Xeo
And here we have @sbi, trying to outsmart the SO chat markdown.
 
sbi
@Xeo Actually, it's more like "working around its shortcomings". <sigh/> In the early days, when we still had to discover its idiosyncrasy, we called it "Morkdown" or "Letdown".
 
@tonythetiger: now i understand that why and in which condition fucntions are illegel.. but i did not find any bug in my functions. . they are all looks to me ok./
difficult to identify bug.. because in my point ,function is good .l
 
sbi
6:11 PM
BTW, the above quote is from a fantastic article on the crap that's management literature: theatlantic.com/magazine/print/2006/06/the-management-myth/4883. An incredibly good read
> the impression I formed of the M.B.A. experience was that it involved taking two years out of your life and going deeply into debt, all for the sake of learning how to keep a straight face while using phrases like “out-of-the-box thinking,” “win-win situation,” and “core competencies.”
> If it’s reminiscent of the kind of toothless wisdom offered in self-help literature, that’s because management theory is mostly a subgenre of self-help. Which isn’t to say it’s completely useless.
 
Oh god, he uses strtok to exemplify nullptr. That's definitely C++ Without Fear.
> nullptr is not merely a convenient setting for the strtok function: Its uses go far beyond that.
 
Xeo
@MartinhoFernandes Without fear of pain?
 
Mentioning strtok at all in a C++ book should result in a public burning of said book.
5
 
6:31 PM
@sbi,
> I found myself thinking things I never thought I’d think, like, I’d rather be reading Heidegger!
 
sbi
@AProgrammer Did I mention I consider this a great article? :)
> At the end of the day his “method” amounted to a set of exhortations: Think harder! Work smarter! Buy a stopwatch!
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus Well, it has its place when said book also goes over the c-part of the stdlib.
 
sbi
@Xeo Why would it do that?
 
Xeo
@sbi The first book I got did, "C++ von A bis Z". It also acts as some kind of reference book. I really liked it though.
 
sbi
@Xeo There's a place for listing C std lib content in a C++ reference book. But not in an introduction to C++.
> Like an elaborate tattoo on an aboriginal warrior, an M.B.A. is a way of signaling just how deeply and irrevocably committed you are to a career in management.
(Can't stop reading that.)
 
6:35 PM
@sbi I was at college in 2nd year. I didn't really program in C++ until later. When I really started, I bough the second edition.
@sbi I think I won't suggest reading that to my boss...
 
sbi
@AProgrammer Wow. I think I started with the 2nd. And I consider myself old. :)
 
@Xeo strtok is an abomination. It's a singleton state machine!
 
Xeo
@MartinhoFernandes I never looked into strtok, dunno what it really does. :)
 
@Xeo If breaks a string into pieces separated by a delimiter.
 
sbi
@AProgrammer You probably won't believe this, but I'm planning on sending a link this to a former boss of mine. And I expect praise. :)
 
6:37 PM
man
 
It's the how that makes my skin crawl.
 
ranged-for makes me so depressed
 
Xeo
@MartinhoFernandes That much is clear to me, but I meant the how.
@DeadMG why?
 
language-library coupling makes for a sad DeadMG :(
 
(Oops, I edited a message instead of writing a new one)
 
6:38 PM
well
 
@Xeo You call it first with the string and the delimiter and you get the first piece. And then you call it with NULL instead of the string, and it gives you the next piece.
 
sbi
@AProgrammer I was confused at first. :)
 
@sbi former is safer.
 
I wanted to think about writing some ranged-based components, just wrappers on my existing Standard implementation
 
Xeo
@MartinhoFernandes Oh my god..
 
6:38 PM
but it would be useless, because when ranged-for comes, then my lovely ranges would be worthless against the necessity of begin() and end()
 
@Xeo What part?
 
@sbi I was also confused to see the result.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Shouldn't your ranges offer begin and end anyways? The STL container are also ranges in a wider sense.
 
sbi
@AProgrammer Yeah, but I also sent him such links when I was working there. (And he sent me links, too. Actually, I think I got to know Joel Spolsky through him slapping a book on my desk saying something like "I think you're going to like that". It was his book on interface design for programmers.) We've been talking over a beer a couple of times, lately - on his initiative.
 
@Xeo: Why would they offer begin and end?
 
Xeo
6:41 PM
@DeadMG Uhm, because ranges have a beginning and an end? At least that's how I see them.
 
@DeadMG To work with other stuff. You know, things like ranged-for.
 
@Martinho: That was what I was bitching about- the necessity of adding them just for that
@Xeo: Not all ranges have a beginning and an end
what about some form of input range, where the end only comes when you find it?
 
sbi
@DeadMG Oh, I'm sure @Martinho had no idea that this was the heart of the matter when he made his remark.
@DeadMG std::input_iterator<blah>() is the end of input.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG I wouldn't consider that a range anyways.
 
maybe I'd prefer an input range
 
Xeo
6:42 PM
@DeadMG And, isn't that the very definition of a "range"?
 
@Xeo You can have open-ended ranges.
 
> cvs checkout: dying gasps from jung.cvs.sourceforge.net unexpected
 
Xeo
@MartinhoFernandes Well, then the end is infinity. ;)
 
How strangely appropriate.
 
When I see someone using cvs, I feel sorry for them. But then I think of my colleagues that are stuck with VSS.
2
 
6:45 PM
I've seen people argue that CVS is better than SVN.
Lunatics.
 
I'm going to go and eat some ice cream
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus OMG, is that a real error message??
 
@sbi Yup.
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus Wow. Great. Almost makes me like CVS again. :)
 
Xeo
> It was fixed by Andy Piper's 14 Nov 1997 change to src/filesubr.c
 
6:50 PM
Well, I've got cvs 1.11.22, and that's from around 2006 I think. It's just bloody piece of crap.
 
sbi
@Xeo Ugh I hadn't looked at the Cederqvist in a long time. And I didn't intent to. You could at least have warned about it!
 
Xeo
@sbi Huh?
 
sbi
> What they don’t seem to teach you in business school is that ... and ... and every other generic framework for problem solving are heuristics: they can lead you to solutions, but they cannot make you think.
@Xeo See, I come to you from a time when using CVS was actually considered progressive. We embraced it. And we read the Cerderqvist thoroughly. When I had been banging my head on CVS' shortcomings for a few years, SVN arrived and saved me. I didn't plan to go back, and just seeing the name "Cederqvist" on top of that file sent very mixed emotions up and down my spine. Here endeth my rant about ye olde times.
 
Xeo
@sbi Ah, I see now.
 
sbi
> M.B.A.s have taken obfuscatory jargon—otherwise known as bullshit—to a level that would have made even the Scholastics blanch.
I love that guy.
 
Xeo
6:58 PM
@sbi Obfuscatory jargon.. I like that word.
 
@sbi bullshit... I like that word.
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes Only management would call it "bovine excrements". :)
 
sbi
7:13 PM
> As I plowed through my shelfload of bad management books, I beheld a discipline that consists mainly of unverifiable propositions and cryptic anecdotes, is rarely if ever held accountable, and produces an inordinate number of catastrophically bad writers.
> In a sense, management theory is what happens to philosophers when you pay them too much.
"In My Egotistical Opinion, most people's C programs should be indented six feet downward and covered with dirt." Blair P Houghton
 
7:37 PM
@sbi What a coincidence. There's a beautiful, beautifully beautiful girl sitting at 2 o'clock about 172cm from me, and she's reading a book by Terry Pratchett. Statistically I should now be thoroughly convinced I should talk to her. :-S <3
 
yeah
you really should be
 
As opposed to chatting with Standard Nerds. :p
 
sbi
@wilhelmtell If you tell me which one she read, I might be able to provide you with a good prompter. :)
 
It's going to be tricky to do that without obviously looking at her... for the 10th time
fuck she left
i think i was obvious.
 
sbi
@wilhelmtell If she left, then "fuck" isn't what's on the agenda anymore. :)
 
7:39 PM
lol
 
sbi
@wilhelmtell See, had you not only looked at her teats, but also at her book, you might have had an actual chance. :P
 
I'm very non-standard nerd.
 
i'm a romantic fella, i don't do that. it's just because i have a recurring tendency to fail in quite a number of things, romance among them.
 
@wilhelmtell And was hoping for some live reporting :(
 
i'll keep visiting this café, i have a feeling i'm going to forge a wonderful friendship here.
 
sbi
7:45 PM
@wilhelmtell If it's friendship you're seeking, why were you talking about her being beautiful? (IME beauty in a girl tends to ruin friendship.)
 
umm. not that sort of friendship.
the fun kind.
lol
 
lol
don't know what you're talking about, I have a friend and it's perfectly fun
 
is it a fruitful friendship?
ok let's stop here.
i had a plan in my head yknow
 
lol
 
i thought, 'k matan, here's what we're going to say'
 
7:48 PM
don't we all
 
sbi
@wilhelmtell Didn't you say something about "romance"? What's that got to do with a plan in your head??
 
i said, i said, i said "let's ask her! let's ask "so, in your opinion, what are the top 10 tips for correct C++ coding?"
"
nested doublequotes fuck
 
LOL
 
i said, god if tht doesn't get her attention i don't know hwat would
@sbi good romance must start with a good plan
otherwise she wouldn't talk to me
 
sbi
@wilhelmtell Yeah, I can see that you're just the right material for a true romance.
 
7:50 PM
i mean i do have my trousers on today, but still.
lol
 
sbi
@wilhelmtell Oh boy. And you probably really believe that. I'm afraid you're in for a bad disappointment.
 
are we talking about dirty things that are inappropriate when little children are around?
 
Well, at least you came up with something. I'd run out of ideas after "hi".
 
so what are we talking about?
 
@TonyTheTiger it's fine i can handle that.
 
7:52 PM
@wilhelmtell lol
 
it's not dirty
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger @wilhelmtell thinks he's talking about romance, but actually he's talking about seduction, and, likely, sex.
 
it's the beginning of a wonderfu; comantic romedy.
 
Yeah, likely.
 
@sbi sex? wow, been a long time since we talked about that!
 
7:53 PM
@TonyTheTiger About 24 hours.
 
@sbi nooooooooo
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger Friday, was it?
 
@sbi wasn't even mentioned at the meetup?! OMG, we forgot
 
sbi
@wilhelmtell No what?
 
@sbi srsly tho. "What are in your opinion the 10 top rules for correct C++ coding?" That's super cute!
 
7:54 PM
@wilhelmtell Yeah, that would work...
 
@wilhelmtell I hope that's not supposed to be a chat up line?
no pun intended :)
@sbi I don't remember talking about sex on Friday?!
 
"So tell me, what's you thought on Brian Overland's rep? Or of Danny Kalev's rep for plusone-ing Overland?"
 
Pun is always intended, otherwise you're doing it wrong.
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger Well, it went much deeper than that, actually. @Konrad and @SpaceC0wb0y were talking about genetic stuff.
Here, where the geeks think sex is romance, talking about genetics would be what talking about sex is for romantic girls.
 
@sbi oh yea... true. That really went over my head...
 
sbi
7:56 PM
@TonyTheTiger ...like romance over @wilhelmtell's.
 
@sbi haahahahah :P
 
According to the standard romance is "a feeling of excitement and mystery associated with love".
Sorry, i meant dictionary..
 
alright @sbi you're smart. tell me. how would you kick off a conversation?
 
sbi
@wilhelmtell To me it seems to speak to a girl you need to get down on your geek level so far, you'd be looking at the cellar's floor as the ceiling.
 
7:58 PM
@StackedCrooked had no idea that the standard covered romance... is there a keyword for that?
 
@TonyTheTiger std.sex, obviously.
 
@StackedCrooked my feelings in a nutshell. up until 10 minutes ago, that is, when she lost the opportunity of her life.
 
@TonyTheTiger walloc aka wife alloc
 
@StackedCrooked epic :)
lulz
 
8:00 PM
alloc is not a keyword and so walloc can't be a keyword. i refuse to star that.
ok alright
 
@wilhelmtell wmalloc then?
 
Whalloc. It calls whaaambulance.
 
though malloc is only a function... can you call functions on women?
 
i'm trying to convicne myself the real reason i didn't make a step was because my neck and my upper back hurt like hell, and i'd move funny.
 
can you have a woman* ?
 
8:02 PM
because yesterday i ran with a friend and then we did some pullup bar and i jumped off badly.
 
not sure I'm following @wilhelmtell
 
@CatPlusPlus: Shouldn't that be std::sex, not std.sex?
 
@DeadMG I bet he's secretly coding in .net again.
 
@StackedCrooked I'm openly coding in .NET
I admit, I turned to the dark side :P
 
8:05 PM
@TonyTheTiger eek
 
or is C++ the dark side?
 
I have no words.
:)
 
@StackedCrooked yes you do... in the dictionary
 
@TonyTheTiger Dammit.
 
8:07 PM
Cool, I just learned from the dictionary that 'woo' is a synonym for romance.
 
lol
 
sbi
Ok, I'll try my best:
A friendly word comes across best when it's actually meant as a friendly word, rather than a punch line to get laid ASAP. Contrary to what movies turned into popular believe, a girl does not fall in love with you because you made a witty comment. They might, though, if they know you for a while and learn to like you.
But nothing is more disruptive to that than being looked at with those hungry eyes of a starving wolf. (If you are so fucking starving that you can't stop looking that way, use your hands, FFS.) Look at girls as human beings, rather than mere carriers of t
 
@sbi well spoken :) :)
hello @Potatoswatter, long time no see here
I guess @wilhelmtell couldn't handle your talk, @sbi, cause he left now...
 
@TonyTheTiger hey hey hey, kids!
 
@Potatoswatter what's up?
 
8:20 PM
Not a lot. You?
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger Ceiling?
 
cpx
lol
 
@sbi if it doesn't fall down, then it's up yes
 
Touché.
 
@Potatoswatter not much, bit tired...
 
8:22 PM
Space is up.
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger A fallen down ceiling ain't no ceiling anymore. :)
 
couldn't resist @SpaceC0wb0y?
 
sbi
Hey, @SpaceC0wb0y, cured your hangover?
 
I am really out of practice when it comes to beer.
 
8:23 PM
In space "up" loses meaning once you get there…
 
@sbi it's a fallen down ceiling... I guess
 
I had a total of 5 this weekend - more than in the last 4 weeks I guess.
 
@Space_C0wb0y I'm kinda a little out of practice, but I get mine, since I live in a Beer country
 
sbi
@Space_C0wb0y Well, we should get more practice then. :)
 
@sbi come practice in Belgium :) (drinking beer)
 
8:25 PM
And eating fries - the perfect combination.
 
@Space_C0wb0y ahahah :)
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger You train with @StackedCrooked. I neither have the time nor the money to jump to Belgium for a beer. :(
 
What beer pairs with fries????
 
It does - and greatly so.
 
@sbi I gotcha
 
8:26 PM
But it have to be belgian fries.
 
That wasn't a yes or no question, and how are Belgian fries different?
 
@Potatoswatter they're Belgain, that says it all :)
@Space_C0wb0y so what did your Sunday bring?
 
sbi
@Potatoswatter Nothing is different in itself, there's got to be something it could be different from. So what would you want them to be compared to?
 
@sbi Well, Canada (Quebec) has a distinctive style of fries.
 
Belgians claim Belgian fries are superior.
They also claim that fries were invented in Belgium.
 
8:31 PM
@StackedCrooked why do you say claim?
 
@TonyTheTiger I relaxed, did some household work and enjoyed the good weather.
 
@TonyTheTiger Because these claims are pretty outrageous… it is quite trivial to fry a potato.
 
@Space_C0wb0y sounds interesting... I flew...
 
If that is a culinary accomplishment, you won't get far with brewing ;v)
 
@TonyTheTiger The concept of frying pieces potato seems like something that can be 'invented' independently by many people.
 
8:32 PM
@TonyTheTiger I hope everything went well.
 
However, according to the Wikipedia page on French fries the place of origin is indeed Belgium.
 
@Space_C0wb0y yea, only that I almost got lost in the middle of Berlin... lol (got off the wrong tram station)
 
sbi
@Space_C0wb0y Actually he got off the tram at Bornholmer, rather than Schönhauser, and had to struggle to catch his S-Bahn. :-x
 
@Potatoswatter you've obviously never been to Belgium and come to see and taste all the different beers
@sbi was good for my condition, but not my feet :(
 
@sbi: You remember the company you told me about yesterday? The one that might be looking for a guy like me? What was their name again?
 
8:36 PM
@TonyTheTiger I think the implication is that fries aren't actually an accomplishment.
 
@Potatoswatter that depends on the POV... I guess... not that I'm at all interested in fries, I couldn't give a frying fuck... tbh
 
@TonyTheTiger Good save.
 
@Potatoswatter :)
 
Now I want to soak potatoes in beer and fry them.
 
@Potatoswatter Belgians are quite proud of having invented fries. And can be quite emotional about it too. Keep that in mind if you ever visit Belgium :)
 
sbi
8:38 PM
@Space_C0wb0y younicos.com Do you want me to check on the guy I know there?
(BTW, you profile's link to careers seems broken.)
 
@StackedCrooked I'll need to try to remember that late at night in a Belgian pub… which will certainly happen sooner or later :v)
 
@Potatoswatter The conventional method is to fry the fries and then eat them with a beer.
 
@Potatoswatter why don't you swat some potatoes instead? :P
 
@TonyTheTiger Swat them and then fry them. Never the other way around…
 
@sbi: Yes, that would be great. (And thanks, I fixed the link).
 
8:40 PM
@Potatoswatter lulz
 
You could soak them in a beer that didn't turn out well, then fry them, and drink good beer while eating.
 
ugh
Bart Albert Liliane De Wever (; born in Mortsel, 21 December 1970) is a Flemish politician and since 2004 has been the president of the N-VA, a Flemish party that strives for an independent Flanders in a united Europe. He has also been a member of the Flemish parliament since 2004. He played a prominent role in the 2007 Belgian government formation and led his party to victory in the 2010 Belgian federal elections, after which the N-VA became the largest party in both Flanders and the whole of Belgium. Biography De Wever attended the Katholieke Universiteit Leuven (KUL), graduating wi...
he knows all about fries :)
 
Oh boy.
I'm seeing this in the C++ chat? :)
 
@StackedCrooked lol
 
Ok, I gotta get up early tomorrow, good night everyone.
 
8:45 PM
now we can talk screwed up politics too :P
 
@TonyTheTiger Did you guys form a government yet???
 
@Potatoswatter nope.
 
How long until the regions become independent by default?
 
@Potatoswatter Until everyone in the current government has died.
 
There's a default?
 
8:48 PM
All else being equal, it is the better thing to do. More representatives in the EU and UN means more benefits.
 
@Potatoswatter you come over and tell that to those bunch of fighting retards....
 
At some point, more local governments fill the power vacuum and take responsibility for interfacing with said supranational organizations. After that, it becomes useless to refer to a national government.

That's my theory, anyway.
 
@Potatoswatter in Belgium, no such things as defaults... they could go on forever like this, cause it's only the tax payers money they're wasting, and do they care?! absolutely not... I mean if you get 8000 Euro a month for a bit of yapping, why the hell not continue yapping and arguing and whatever they do that's producing no results
 
Regionalism + supranationalism... I don't think I've heard that view before
 
@LucDanton I was surprised too… but that's what Wikipedia says: "[He is] the president of the N-VA, a Flemish party that strives for an independent Flanders in a united Europe."
If you think about it, it's an elegant way of passing the buck.
Strive for middle management!
 
8:54 PM
Hey, there's a list of people on Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people
I'm not on it :(
 
There's no list of things :v(, clearly there is a bias here. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_things
This is a list of mummies — corpses whose skin and organs have been preserved intentional or incidental. {| class="sortable wikitable" style="font-size:100%;" |- ! Name ! Location ! Approximate lifetime ! Picture ! Ref. |- | Akhenaten || Egypt || died in 1336 or 1334 BCE || |- | Amenhotep III || Egypt || ruled Egypt 1391–1353 BCE or 1388–1351 BCE || || |- | Asru || Egypt / England |- | Baishinni (梅唇尼) || Japan || || || |- | Jeremy Bentham || England || 15 February 1748–6 June 1832 |- | Borre Fen Man || Denmark || c. 700 BCE || || |- | Borre Fen Woman I || Denmark || c. 400 BCE || ||...
There's one to strive for!
 
@Potatoswatter However, there is a list of en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals . If that may be of some comfort to you..
A premature obituary is an obituary published whose subject is not actually deceased. Examples of premature obituaries range from that of arms manufacturer Alfred Nobel, whose premature obituary condemning him as a "merchant of death" may have caused him to create the Nobel Prize, to black nationalist Marcus Garvey, whose actual death was apparently caused by reading his own obituary. This article lists the recipients of incorrect death reports (not just formal obituaries) from publications, media organisations, official bodies, and widely-used information sources such as the Internet M...
 
sbi
@Space_C0wb0y I pinged the guy. We'll see. (You might want to find a way to drop me some email address or another means - Skype, ICQ? - to contact you.)
 
9:10 PM
man
so much invalid data in my database
 
There's list of numbers on wiki, so..
 
@CatPlusPlus Note how the lists get shorter as the sets get larger: Many integers are listed, but few hypercomplex and transfinite numbers.
 
@sbi: Is there any way to send a private message here?
 
sbi
@Space_C0wb0y Not that I knew of.
(@Konrad has an email address of me, and you can find his online.)
 
@sbi: Nevermind, just send me a mail to my public adress: pollex@informatik.hu-berlin.de
 
9:21 PM
Create a private room.
 
sbi
@Space_C0wb0y Ok.
 
@Potatoswatter AFAIK there are no private rooms here. Anyone can join any room.
@sbi: Thanks! So, I'm going to bed now.
Bey!
 
One way to find out…
Ah yes, it says anyone can join.
 
a transfinite number?
on earth is that?
 
AFAIK a room can be made 'gallery' or something like that, then only approved people can talk.
 
sbi
9:24 PM
@DeadMG Where else?
 
lol
 
> Transfinite numbers are cardinal numbers or ordinal numbers that are larger than all finite numbers, yet not necessarily absolutely infinite.
 
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