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11:00 PM
What is the relationship/distinction between features and transitional probabilities?
 
now my states transitoanl probabilty works likes this ./...
ah....
 
Because at the start of the text file I see "Transition Probabilities (A):", but you said the text file contains features.
 
that mean we have to compute transit probabilty of all features in given states' transiional probabilty..
do you understand now .. why states transitioanl probabilty are given..
and sorry for spelling errors
i just want to say that ...
state x1 is null ...
x2 have its own probability
x2 goes to x3
x3 have its own probabitly and x3 goes to x4
x4 have its own probabiltry , x5 goes to x6
x6 have its own probab , x6 goes to x7, where x7 is null state
that mean probobabilty of x6 to x7 should be 0
that mean in transitional matrix should have transitional probabity in diagionals form
and matrix upper and lower values should be 0
now i do't understand that which values are 0 ...
all values are vegative
how can i say that this values are 0 or not///
is that mean i must have to convert them into log domain
any one udnerstand this ?
 
11:16 PM
14 mins ago, by Miss
that mean we have to compute transit probabilty of all features in given states' transiional probabilty..
Sorry, I just don't understand what you are trying to say here.
Also, what does "state x1 is null ..." mean?
And what does "x2 have its own probability" mean?
 
rlc
good evening
 
that mean what is the probabilty of states activation...
anyways @ric: good evening
 
But a state activation is always relative to a starting state, right? There is no probability to go to some state S. There is only a probability to go from state A to state B. And I don't understand what a state being null could possibly mean.
 
rlc
@Miss the middle letter is an L, not an I :-)
you guys looking at some graph theory tonight?
 
where ric
 
11:28 PM
@rlc That's the only thing we have established so far, yes :)
 
ahh i want to explain but looks hard...
 
rlc
can I ask a few questions? maybe that can help clear things up a bit..
you have a graph with seven vertices, A, B, C, D, E, F and G, right?
 
yes sure
yes
 
rlc
and the table you posted to codepad has one row and one column for each, and in each cell you have the probability for a transition from the vertex in a row to a vertex in the corresponding column?
if so, then why are all the values negative?
probabilties are usually between 0 and 1, inclusive
 
yes i need to put them in log domain
yes right ... and i want to knnow that which probabilites are 0
 
11:34 PM
@rlc That's what I thought, but then Miss started mumbling about features and probabilities.
 
it should make standards form
well you are right.. i should not do further work until i get these values in log domain
 
rlc
what do you mean when you say a state "is NULL"?
 
@rlc You're not the first to ask that question ;-)
I've asked it twice already and haven't received an answer I could understand.
 
rlc
@FredOverflow judging from the transcript, I might still be the first to get an answer though ;-)
 
null mean that have nothing to do with next state
it jsut connect the states
 
11:37 PM
@rlc There you have your answer :-)
 
for example i have a sentence that consist on 2 states...
whose start and end state are null
these null states will used to connect the words and make sentence
 
Now if only you connected words to sentences that made a little more sense...
 
ok so null states are actually connection and nothing else
 
rlc
ok, so NULL states are states you can't stay in, or that you end up in and won't get out of?
 
yes right
 
rlc
11:39 PM
@Miss ok, so like a cross-roads in your edges
 
yes righty
agreee
now my states should work in standard form
@ric: i hope you got idea
i mean you uderstand it
 
rlc
right, so I might have an edge from one vertex to another, that could either be direct or go through one of your "NULL nodes"
 
ahh my work is same as cross roads you were right
like state from road, then stay here and get turn
and then stay and then get turn
and so on.....
but in my case,there are 7 roads.
7th road is the end point
and 1st road is that starting point of travelling
heheheh
 
How is the 7th road an end point? The police won't be very happy about that...
 
rlc
if you have seven nodes and you have edges between all of them (except the one that had probability 0) you have about 48 "roads", IIRC
 
11:47 PM
ahh stop this.. we have states..not road.s.s.
 
@rlc Only if the transitions are a) directed and b) states have transititions to themselves.
 
well 48 roads how
@fredoverflow: right
 
rlc
@FredOverflow judging from the table, they are directed and there are transitions to self
 
yes right
right @ric:
 
@rlc Assuming the table is really a transition table, which Miss denied several times.
 
rlc
11:49 PM
@FredOverflow if the table isn't what it says it is, it gets a bit more complicated...
 
@rlc And that's exactly where I left the train.
Let's start with a very simple example. Suppose we have this table:
0.2   0.7
0.5   0.3
 
@ric: you judge the table in right way
 
Please explain what the numbers in this table mean.
 
hmm
 
Is this a table for one specific state, or is this a table for all states?
 
11:52 PM
this table is for 2 states
 
Aha! And do the numbers make sense? Or should the lines or the column add up to 1.0?
Or should they be negative? And if so, what would that mean?
 
and these states work from left to right
 
@Miss What does that mean?
 
that mean state a goes to state b and state b goes to state c,... but state b can't go to a
that mean left to right
 
rlc
@Miss ok, so we have a 20% chance of going from state A to state A and a 70% chance of going from A to B, which leaves a 10% chance of not transitioning at all, in @Fred's table, is that right?
 
11:54 PM
so according to rhat
 
@rlc What is the difference between going from state A to state A and not transitioning at all?
 
rlc
I don't know - there might be a cost to transitioning
 
Ah, transition fees.
 
rlc
I don't know what's modeled...
 
That would be nice to know, wouldn't it? :)
 
11:55 PM
@ric you are talking about my table or fredoverflow table
 
rlc
Fred's table
and it's RLC, not RIC
as in Ronald Landheer-Cieslak
 
My table. It's good to start simple until everyone understands the concepts.
@rlc Is that your real name? (Note: FredOverflow is not my real name.)
 
well if fred table is left to righy
then it should be right this :
 
rlc
yes, Ronald Landheer-Cieslak is my real name
 
@Miss The 0.5 should be 0.0 right?
 
11:57 PM
0.2 0.7
0 0
yes right
 
And shouldn't the first line add up to 1.0?
 
what
no
 
In fact, shouldn't every line add up to 1.0? I think this would make more sense:
0.3   0.7
0.0   1.0
 
rlc
only if transitions are mandatory
 
last one should also be 0
 
11:58 PM
I have never heard of an automaton system where transitions were optional.
 
no hold on
ahh yes @fred you areright
 
rlc
I don't know if this is an automaton system yet :-)
 
your last table is right
 
rlc
ok, so B is an "end-type NULL node", right?
 

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