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11:00 PM
@sehe technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896642.aspx "FileMon and Regmon are no longer available for download. They have been replaced by Process Monitor on versions of Windows starting with Windows 2000 SP4, Windows XP SP2, Windows Server 2003 SP1, and Windows Vista."
 
user142019
I'm thinking about writing a kernel that has a byte-code interpreter.
 
Let's consider two teams: A and B. A is listed 1.3 and B is listed 10. This means that if you bet on A 10$ and it wins you win 13$ and if you bet 10$ on B and it wins you get 100$. Now if I bet 10$ on A only and lose I lose 10$. But if I bet 10$ on A and 10$ on B the worst case scenario I only lose 3,50$ is that right?
 
@Zoidberg'-- I wouldn't put that in the kernel.
 
@MooingDuck Wokay. There you go. I haven't exactly seen these features in procexp, but procexp is a nice beast
 
user142019
@MooingDuck why not?
 
11:00 PM
@FredOverflow Well, PNG si supposed to store all its words and integers in Big-Endian form. So that PNG signature should be in reverse when I read those bytes from disk, no?
 
@sehe process monitor != process explorer I don't think
 
Oh wait, procmon, not procexp. That explains
 
Even thought I'm reading them as bytes, it was stored as words.
 
@ThePhD Why? PNG signature is not an integer. It's a sequence of individual bytes. It would be silly to reverse strings in different endiannesses.
 
@FredOverflow Precisely /cc @ThePhD
 
11:01 PM
@Zoidberg'-- kerlen should be for interfacing with hardware, and virtual memory and such. An interpreter should be seperate. Maybe still part of the OS, but not a kernel.
 
@Zoidberg'-- Microsoft Research did that a while back (basically a VM at the base of everything, and the rest of the kernel running in the VM). msra.cn/labevents/ur/workshop06/presentations/wincore/…
 
@ThePhD don't store bytes as words
 
user142019
@JerryCoffin interesting.
 
Ell
(Is this pure HCL? amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0017VRHGQ)
 
Hm. Well then.
 
user142019
11:02 PM
@Ell no
 
.... I'm going to not touch the Endianess then.
See wha thappens.
 
user142019
At best it is HCl, but certainly not HCL.
 
@ThePhD Again, there is no endianness in bytes :) So there is nothing to touch. If you want to reverse strings, go ahead, but that has nothing to do with endianness.
 
Ell
Isorry, HCl
 
user142019
@FredOverflow there is bit endiannes. :P
 
11:04 PM
How could you observe bit endianness?
 
user142019
> The terms bit endianness or bit-level endianness are seldom used when talking about the representation of a stored value, as they are only meaningful for the rare computer architectures where each individual bit has a unique address.
 
@ThePhD At least if memory serves, endianess in PNG mostly arises/matters when you have (for example) an image with 16 bits per channel, so you're reading a short as the value for one channel (red, green or blue) of a pixel. In that case, you need to byte-swap the values you read, or the colors will come out all wrong.
 
@Zoidberg'-- Oh wait, there is an x86 instruction to access individual bits, isn't there?
 
user142019
@FredOverflow probable. There is an x86 instruction for everything. For example, there is AESKEYGENASSIST.
 
The BT x86 assembly language instruction stands for Bit Test and was added to the x86 instruction set with the 80386 processor. BT copies a bit from a given register to the carry flag. Example: copy the third least significant bit from EAX to the carry flag BT EAX, 3 BTS (Bit Test and Set) operates the same, but also sets the bit in the register, while BTR (Bit Test and Reset) resets it, and BTC (Bit Test and Complement) flips it. References
 
11:05 PM
@FredOverflow Yes and no. None to simply address memory in bits though (but the PDP-10 did allow that).
 
user142019
I wouldn't be surprised if there were a COMPILEC++ instruction. :^)
 
why the fuck does Clang have headers in their lib/ folder?
 
user142019
@DeadMG private headers.
 
user142019
I think.
 
Header only libraries maybe? ;)
 
11:06 PM
but they're part of the public documentation :(
 
user142019
lib/ contains the source code of libclang.
 
@sehe Yeah, let it fall by itself
 
@CatPlusPlus Oh wait, that happens. I wonder when, though :)
 
2 weeks
 
user142019
@sehe in 12 days.
 
11:08 PM
Give or take
 
That's looooooooooooooooong
11 days
 
I have two students who cannot install Visual Studio 2012 on their computers. The first one does not have enough space. Guess the reason for the second one.
 
@FredOverflow It's running Mac OS or Linux?
 
@FredOverflow Not enough space
 
nope
 
11:10 PM
He she doesn't have local admin rights
The processor doesn't support the instruction sets required to run VS2012?
 
Ell
They don't know how?
 
user142019
@FredOverflow He doesn't have a computer!
 
user142019
He has no Internet connection?
 
user142019
He is a moron?
 
@Zoidberg'-- lol no
 
11:12 PM
ambiguous....
 
The first guess was the closest so far.
 
user142019
He is running a non-Windows OS.
 
nope
 
user142019
Or Windows 98.
 
It's running Minix!?
 
Ell
11:12 PM
Doesbt have a bed drive?
Hard*
 
user142019
Windows Vista.
 
Getting closer.
 
Windows ME!
 
user142019
Windows XP!
 
@Zoidberg'-- We have a winner!
 
11:12 PM
@FredOverflow I can't install because I run WinXP
 
Poor sod
 
@MooingDuck silver for you
Why would anyone still run Windows XP on their private computer?
 
@FredOverflow I saw the Win98 guess and assumed I'd missed a WinXP guess already :(
 
user142019
I run Linux and OS X! :D
 
@FredOverflow fear of losing things during upgrade.
@FredOverflow Also backup harddrive is full
@FredOverflow because I'm a packrat and don't delete anything
I might need it in the future!
 
user142019
11:14 PM
2 mins ago, by Zoidberg'--
He is a moron?
 
user142019
Hint: don't say yes; he's also in this room.
 
@FredOverflow because it works fine and I already have it
 
user142019
Windows never works fine.
 
Here's my list of reasons to upgrade from XP so far: more secure OS, Halo 2, and MSVC11.
 
Win7 works better than XP
 
user142019
11:16 PM
I have a friend who has a computer with 8 cores, 16 GB RAM and 2 ATI Radeons, yet Windows keeps telling him his computer is not powerful enough for Aero and then automatically switches to Basic. xD
 
@CatPlusPlus in what way?
 
In every way
 
/me listening to "You Suck" by Strapping Young Lad.
 
user142019
Windows 7 is not very bad.
 
11:17 PM
@CatPlusPlus I haven't seen enough evidence to make me want to upgrade
 
user142019
The fact that it doesn't run the latest Visual Studio is a good thing.
 
@Zoidberg'-- Why would I want Aero?
 
user142019
@FredOverflow do I know. He thinks Basic looks ugly.
 
@Zoidberg'-- It doesn't even target Windows XP as of now, right? I mean you cannot create executables that run on Windows XP.
 
@MooingDuck actually, the Vista kernel, on which Win 7 is based, has quite a lot fixed to it, on top of that, transition from Vista to 7, and you'll probably have some more kernel fixes.
 
user142019
11:18 PM
@FredOverflow I don't know. I don't use VS/Windows.
 
@Zoidberg'-- Aero is that glass look, right? I don't see any point in that.
 
user142019
@FredOverflow yes. People say it looks nice, that's the point in it. :P
 
user142019
It looks more like plastic than glass.
 
@TonyTheLion I keep hearing "fixes" and "better", but I've seen nothing specific outside of security. I have felt no lack whatsoever (except for my aformentioned reasons)
 
@Zoidberg'-- Great. Useless like the animation when you delete files. Who on earth needs an animation when you delete files?
 
user142019
11:19 PM
I prefer no look at all.
 
user142019
xmonad ftw
 
You just installed xmonad because it is written in Haskell.
 
user142019
And I find it the only non-crappy GUI for Linux so far.
 
huh
 
@TonyTheLion rustgevend. listening now
 
11:20 PM
the LLVM documentation references a header file that does not exist
@MooingDuck It's a lot faster.
 
user142019
I've tried Gnome, KDE, Unity and XFCE and I haven't been satisfied by any of them.
 
@Zoidberg'-- What happens if I install xmonad on my Xubuntu? Will it break everything? :)
 
@MooingDuck the fact that 7 and Vista bluescreened less, seems that they fixed something quite essential. Also there's things like the global dispatcher lock (the one which is taken when a context switch is done) is no longer global. There's some video's on Channel 9 that talk about the improvements.
 
user142019
I don't know. I don't like Ubuntu.
 
@sehe lol :P
 
user142019
11:21 PM
I like Arch since it's minimal and doesn't ship with loads of crap.
 
user142019
And it has a decent package manager.
 
Ell
i prefer the look of win7 to ubuntu, gnome etc. It seems more thin and stuff
 
@Zoidberg'-- Non-overlapping windows only? That sounds extremely inconvenient at first...
 
@TonyTheLion I've only gotten one bluescreen in the last 5 years. So that's not a reason to upgrade IMO. Never heard of the second
 
@TonyTheLion i have heard worse. It sounds a bit overproduced though. I have the feeling I wouldn't be impressed with them in a live setting
 
user142019
11:21 PM
With packages that are not outdated.
 
user142019
@FredOverflow it isn't. You can control everything with the keyboard and I really like that.
 
@sehe they are far from my favorite, but being tired of what I normally listen to, I picked something offball.
 
@Zoidberg'-- +1 for that
 
user142019
Well except for Google Chrome if you want a decent UX. :P
 
11:22 PM
@TonyTheLion "Wrong Side" now playing
 
user142019
Google Chrome is the only GUI software I have used the past three days.
 
@MooingDuck It boots much faster.
 
> In addition to obviating the need for the mouse, the xmonad developers make heavy use of semi-formal methods and program derivation for improving reliability and enabling a total line of code count less than 1200, as of version 0.7
Just 1200 LOC for a window manager? Fucking incredible.
 
user142019
(Okay, and iTunes.)
 
@MooingDuck oh well, I seem to recall getting a lot of bluescreens when I used XP. Nowadays I get one rarely. Now, you have to go and use 7 for a bit (maybe in a VM) and see for yourself.
 
user142019
11:23 PM
@FredOverflow Haskell. :^)
 
Maybe the xmonad guys should rewrite Linux in 10,000 lines of Haskell :)
 
@TonyTheLion harddrive is almost full, I have to beat some games before I can play with 7/8
 
@FredOverflow Wait till you see it
 
@sehe I was under the impression that you didn't like metal?! So now you've got me confused?!
 
user142019
@FredOverflow well I'm going to write a kernel anyway so why not in Haskell. :P
 
11:24 PM
@MooingDuck haha. :)
 
user142019
@sehe is that positive or negative?
 
@DeadMG according to my source, it boots 30% slower.
 
@MooingDuck Get a large hard drive for Christmas.
 
@MooingDuck Find a source that does not suck.
 
@TonyTheLion I like to try oddball picks sometimes. This track isn't too shabby. They hit a style nerve there, a bit of symphonic embedded on the bridge
 
11:25 PM
oh yeah, and only Windows 7 comes with TRIM, so if you're still on XP you can forget any SSD action
 
@MooingDuck Even if it did, who cares?
 
@sehe hehe :) I like your thinking :)
 
@Zoidberg'-- It means: put it into perspective: it doesn't do much, so 1200 lines of code is ... well, not too surprising.
 
Windows 7 boots within a couple of seconds on my computer from 2007ish.
@sehe Do the 1200 lines include the test cases?
 
@FredOverflow How would you test a window manager? That said, I'd half expect yes (I haven't looked at it, though I looked at the source of other tiling WMs)
 
user142019
11:27 PM
@sehe hmm
 
user142019
foo
 
Those were the first few benchmarks I found. Sounds like "7 is faster" is not a common measurement
 
@Zoidberg'-- I agree with the pre-edit message there
 
let me see
 
@Zoidberg installing xmonad right now :)
 
11:29 PM
we've got one guy who benched ancient hardware on beta drivers with not particularly notable game- not exactly a comprehensive suite.
 
user142019
@FredOverflow on what distro?
 
Xubuntu
 
then we've got people who benched on the beta of Windows 7
 
user142019
 
user142019
^ might be useful. :P
 
11:30 PM
What is up with those assholes in the C# room?
 
@DeadMG we've got the first 8 google hits, with numbers and measurements, vs a dog in a chatroom who doesn't even claim to have measurements.
 
@MooingDuck Their relevance on Google is irrelevant to whether or not they actually have reliable data.
 
user142019
@FredOverflow setting up xmobar (the status bar I use, there are alternatives but I haven't looked at them) is kind of a pain if you install the wrong version which is broken, so beware if you're going to use xmobar. :P
 
if you want to benchmark something, then you need actual benchmarking, not just some random dude who supposedly timed something one day
 
@DeadMG however, it's far more believable than someone who did no benchmarks, and is talking from his own thoughts of his own experiences.
 
11:31 PM
@MooingDuck You're trying to compare zero and zero, and claiming that one comes up top.
 
@TonyTheLion okay, getting tiring now. Switching albums
 
@DeadMG it's easy from this to see why I haven't been persuaded to upgrade in any case.
 
as with any other software performance, if you're only concerned about performance on your machine, then you need to measure it on your machine, and random results on random machines with unknown setups is, well, immaterial.
how do you know any of those random forum posters didn't download themselves a virus, or bloatware from their vendor they didn't disable yet, or any of a billion other things?
 
@Zoidberg When I log in into xmonad, all I see is the background. There are no symbols whatsoever, and the mouse doesn't do anything. Is that normal for xmonad?
 
user142019
@FredOverflow yes.
 
user142019
11:34 PM
Spawn a new terminal window using shift+alt+return.
 
To quote that dude in that JonTron video, what the fuck is a Sonic?
 
Also, it fucked up my xfce settings, I have a different background now, and the window titles look very strange.
 
user142019
You may have to set up the terminal in ~/.xmonad/xmonad.hs.
 
@DeadMG I agree they are uncertain and do not accurately predict what would happen on my machine. I still hold that one can get a general gist of the general comparison by viewing many such benchmarks, and get a rough estimate.
 
@Zoidberg'-- I'm gonna google for xmonad cheat sheet before I boot it again :)
@Zoidberg'-- Set up the terminal? Just how basic is this thing? :)
 
11:35 PM
@sehe heh, me too
 
user142019
@FredOverflow here is my xmonad configuration: gist.github.com/4323471
 
user142019
Basically:
 
@MooingDuck Perhaps, but you'd need thousands of them, at least.
 
@DeadMG to get a rough estimate? I disagree. I'm happy with the first five being unanimous.
 
@FredOverflow 1200 LoC
 
user142019
11:36 PM
import           XMonad

main = xmonad $ defaultConfig
    { terminal = "xterm" -- or whatever terminal you use
    }
 
user142019
In ~/.xmonad/xmonad.hs.
 
user142019
@FredOverflow well xmonad must know which terminal emulator you want to use.
 
user142019
I use rxvt-unicode but first I used xterm since that was all I had installed.
 
Haskell's source extension is .hs ?
 
Hey, it works, I started firefox from the terminal :)
 
user142019
11:38 PM
@ThePhD yes.
 
Well, it's shorter so I like it I suppose. I would've like .hsk though
Gives it that hard 'k' feel from the 'kell'.
 
user142019
CoffeeScript uses .coffee so don't complain. :P
 
Plus it'd be fun to say to co-workers.
 
@CatPlusPlus Is PS2 good? Should I download it?
 
@Zoidberg'-- Gross.
 
11:38 PM
It's a shooter
 
@EtiennedeMartel Download... a console?
 
user142019
@ThePhD even worse: IcedCoffeeScript also uses .coffee.
 
@ThePhD It is short for "Haskell Source".
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oooh. Well now it makes more sense.
 
@Zoidberg Is it possible to start Firefox without having the terminal open that started it? (Does that make sense?)
 
11:39 PM
I still have barely any idea what's happening in this game
 
user142019
@FredOverflow uh you could have it in a start up script.
 
user142019
Maybe you can use dmenu, but I'm not sure what it is (I've scanned an article mentioning it).
 
@FredOverflow disown
 
Oh wait, there's interesting stuff in the console:
Suppressed timeupdate during seeking: currentTime=0,000000, new time=0,000000
MediaStreamGraphImpl::FinishStream
 
"interesting"
 
user142019
11:40 PM
@FredOverflow chromium tells me things about ui::ScaleFactor not being implemented, in the terminal.
 
@FredOverflow $ firefox &disown
 
@FredOverflow That's usual: many GUI programs croak to the terminal, if you launch them from a terminal window. Otherwise, they will too, but you just won't notice
 
@CatPlusPlus It's a MMOFPS, from what I've heard.
 
Yeah
You capture/defend things on very large map
 
Maybe it's just me, but not being able to resize windows feels very uncomfortable.
 
user142019
11:41 PM
@FredOverflow alt+H and alt+L
 
@ThePhD .tsk .tsk
 
What is PS2?
 
user142019
@FredOverflow Can you upload a screenshot? Since you were mentioning you were also running XFCE.
 
@Zoidberg'-- oh nice
 
Planetside 2
 
11:42 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Playstation?
 
I booted procmon but I can't figure out how to use it :/
 
@MooingDuck "booted" lol. If it resembles the old utils: Ctrl-E: start/stop monitoring Ctrl-X clear
 
user142019
I use xmonad full-screen.
 
@sehe I don't know what I'm going to make, but it'll have that extension on it.
 
11:43 PM
@Zoidberg'-- Not at the same time, of course :) You can nest window managers? Didn't know that.
 
user142019
@FredOverflow you can change the overall layout with alt+space
 
user142019
So you can run Firefox in fullscreen and hide the terminal.
 
user142019
@FredOverflow me neither.
 
You can detach windows in xmonad
 
user142019
How?
 
11:43 PM
Also I run most things fullscreened anyway
 
@ScottW What now? You were dieing earlier, now you forgot? That dumb :)
 
user142019
Me too. Except vim.
 
user142019
I run Vim along with two/three terminals. One dedicated to build and run, one dedicated to Git and another one to database/documentation/other shit.
 
@Zoidberg'-- Vim is the one thing I love to fullscreen (my own version of 'no-distraction' mode)
 
There is something sexy about xmonad, maybe I just have to get used to it.
 
11:44 PM
@Zoidberg'-- huh. Inb4 screen, or, indeed, ratpoison
 
Damn, I just noticed there's no clock, how do I tell the time in xmonad? lol
 
I have gvim fullscreened and use tabs inside vOv
 
user142019
@sehe alt+space, alt+space :^)
 
user142019
@FredOverflow xmobar, moment. I'll show you my config files.
 
@CatPlusPlus Alt+RShift+Enter, the most natural combo of the world :)
 
11:45 PM
I have no idea what that does
 
@CatPlusPlus Me too. Though I use mintty+GNU screen in fullscreen mode too - so regularly use terminal vim. Of course, on linux, all that is a given.
@CatPlusPlus It's the shortcut to fullscreen visual studio!
 
user142019
 
So don't shoot the potential nuub. Am I the only one that can't seem to get the c++ tag to actually work on Unanswered/newest filtering? It always comes up C only. Just curious.
 
@WhozCraig So don't say hello
 
user142019
You need to install xmobar. I suggest doing it using Cabal; pacman had a broken version.
 
11:47 PM
When I enter xmobar into the console, nothing happens. Is that a bad sign, or normal without configuration?
 
@WhozCraig Interesting
 
I wouldn't know, I don't browse questions
 
@Zoidberg'-- I installed it via apt-get, was that a bad idea? :)
 
user142019
@FredOverflow without configuration your windows will overlap it. :^) Here are my config files: gist.github.com/4323520.
 
11:48 PM
I only close/downvote gems linked here
 
user142019
@FredOverflow I don't know. pacman had a broken version so windows always overlapped it.
 
@ScottW Tell us more about what you are doing. You are not coming across very coherently today
@ScottW 'guise' - Cicada?
 
@sehe yeah, thats Question/unanswered. I'm specifically talking about Unanswered/newest. I can throw c++ in there over and over and all it does is stack up c's (no c++'s) Oddest thing.
 
Maybe all the C++ questions are answered!
:P
 
@WhozCraig stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/… ? I'm not sure I get what you are doing
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's it! as a fallback tag synonym for
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's not tagged
 
@WhozCraig File a bug on meta.
 
@sehe that seems to be the problem, yes
 
user142019
11:52 PM
@sehe he is Cicada in disguise!
 
I'm thinking so.
 
user142019
Or litb in disguys?
 
@WhozCraig stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/… no questions matching, indeed. Also to do 'and' matching, use [and]
 
And matching is free.
 
@WhozCraig Only makes sense that if you include '[winapi]' you'll end up with a lot hits!
@R.MartinhoFernandes ? you don't pay?
@ScottW Take care
 
11:53 PM
@sehe You're under questions/unanswered. Try doing a [C++] search in unanswered/"no answers". You end up with a [C] search instead.
 
@sehe, again, thats under Questions/unanswered. Check the link I provided earlier (and here again) which hits Unanswered/tagged: stackoverflow.com/unanswered/tagged/c%2b%2b
 
@Zoidberg'-- I put those files in my home directory and restarted my computer, but nothing interesting happens.
 
Ok. so long as I'm not the only one. I'll head over to SO and log a bug request. It used to work, that much I know. no clue how long it has been down. Seemed to me my C++ bookmark as a little C-heavy for awhile now.
 
This is too stupid for me, I cannot even reboot without entering shit into the console.
 
user142019
@FredOverflow did you put xmonad.hs in ~/.xmonad/xmonad.hs or just in ~/xmonad.hs?
 
user142019
11:56 PM
You must put xmonad.hs in ~/.xmonad/xmonad.hs. :P
 
@MooingDuck Why would you guys insist on following the route that is apparently broken? Instead, just type answers:0 [c++] [and] [winapi] or stuff like that into the search box... /cc @WhozCraig
 
@sehe the fact that it's broken is not an excuse for something to be broken.
 
@WhozCraig Sounds file-worthy
@MooingDuck :) Not detecting troll... sigh
 
@Zoidberg'-- Oh. Too late, I booted into Windows 7 now :)
 
user142019
okay :P
 
11:57 PM
hmm, I can't find non-videos on how to use procmon. Lots of docs on what it detects though.
 
user142019
In what source file can I find the Linux entry point? I mean the first C function that gets called.
 
@FredOverflow I'm sure there'll be a tiling WM for windows. In fact, wouldn't Windows Mobile count?
@Zoidberg'-- In the ELF binary? Use nm/objdump I think
 
user142019
No in the source code.
 
@Zoidberg'-- I believe that ends up being very complicated
 
@Zoidberg'-- If you mean you want to indicate an entry point, that'd be man ld
 
11:59 PM
@sehe he wants to make a kernel, so that's not it
 
@Zoidberg'-- If you want to set it in the source code, look for a compiler/target specific attribute (__attribute(init)__ or stuff like that)
 
@Zoidberg'-- C is not really available untill the processor has hit ring 3, the lower functions are all assembly
 

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