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09:00
@doug65536 not really
it is great, but the term "cloud" been abused to buzzword status
@BartekBanachewicz Isn't that true for a huge majority of stuff you do on the Internet?
@BartekBanachewicz not really
@Insilico Clearly you are way over-diligent :p
@BartekBanachewicz It's somewhat just a marketing hype.
09:01
the concept of 'cloud computing' is very old, and is mostly about what the users sees
Just replace "the cloud" with "a whole bunch of other computers somewhere else" and it will make sense. :-P
When drawing a sketch of a network infrastructure a cloud is typically used to represent the Internet. I believe that is where the term comes from.
@thecoshman you mean thin client (browser)?
@Insilico not quite. the back end side of things is not really that specific
@doug65536 mostly
If there's a thunderstorm will my files be in trouble? :(
09:02
They will be supercharged.
@Rapptz the point is, no
What if it will rain?
@Rapptz that was funny when it was reported
That is the point of backups.
Not the cloud.
@thecoshman So there's a cloud that runs on hamsters? :-P
you can do 'cloud computing' with either a dedicated server or a server farm, the point is that to the end user, they are just connecting
@sehe Yeah. I was actually googling for it but couldn't find it, lol.
imagine back-end torrent network of servers
that's the cloud. and it doesn't need backups
@Insilico potentially, though doubtful
09:03
@Rapptz They may be out of order and wet and crumbled.
@Rapptz :)
@BartekBanachewicz Whatever you say.
@BartekBanachewicz Any "cloud provider" that doesn't do backups are fucking idiots.
Well, it needs some sort of redundancy. But it's different, right?
09:04
@Insilico Reminds of the codinghorror case.
@BartekBanachewicz Yes, it's different. That's why it's not a replacement for proper backups.
@BartekBanachewicz it does, but those back-ups can be stored (along with other stores) on servers that are equally capable of running the server software to carry on providing the service
@Rapptz It's true though... Bad weather can shutdown a datacenter.
@Mysticial Going to have to be some very bad weather to be honest.
09:05
to qualify as a real datacenter, I think a UPS is a requirement, and a typical one that I am aware of has a diesel backup generator
@Mysticial ostensibly proven by Sandy
@Mysticial indeed. And if we look at it compared to local servers, it starts to make sense
@Rapptz Like hurricane Sandy?
@Rapptz hahahah that's hilarious.
> While “the cloud” may be the tech buzzword of the year, many Americans remain foggy about what the cloud really is and how it works.
09:06
@Mysticial Yeah like a hurricane or any natural catastrophe.
anyone check their SLA for whether their guaranteed covers meteors
Ha. How punny.
But I think natural catastrophes are separate from bad weather.
You have to realize how lucky Stackoverflow got away though.
@ThePhD Just focus on endless potential outcomes, then.
Also, keep up the quality trolling. I won't eat you as long as I'm not bored
09:07
It was barely a month before Sandy that they did the failover test to Oregon.
And even now, SE is still run out of Oregon.
@sehe lol
Just star it
@Mysticial People, time to don your tinfoil hats.
I do find it funny though that so many big data centres are not paired with another one. especially those in USA.
09:08
@R.MartinhoFernandes ?
@Mysticial It's clearly a conspiracy!
@Mysticial As in: that's not luck. You can say they could have had more glitches. But the fact remains they were more prepared than many other businesses
ahaha
So Robot, how was the Stollen yesterday?
@sehe So clearly the Stack Exchange team instigated a hurricane to test their failovers?
6
09:08
Mysticial bought new servers to re-locate SE so he could keep all that delicious rep.
@TonyTheLion as in the food?
@thecoshman off course
@thecoshman What else is there?
@TonyTheLion then why capitalise it?
@TonyTheLion It was nice.
09:09
@thecoshman Cause German
@thecoshman Because it is a German word.
@TonyTheLion Off the main course?
@R.MartinhoFernandes of course it was
@Insilico Nah. That's ludicrous. Of course they can't. But clearly they manipulated the path of the hurricane. How else will you explain the fact that no other H. has ever before taken this path?
Can't Capitalize On Stollen
09:10
but... we have them in England and Ireland too... so it is now also an English word... ergo... lower case
@thecoshman The English one probably sucks.
@thecoshman But it wasn't being used in the english sense
So "stollen" => crappy; "Stollen" => awesome.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Safe to assume
09:10
I think the rule is, if there is only one, capitalize it
@doug65536 ?!
@doug65536 That's not the German rule.
@doug65536 The rule is, if it's German, capitalize nouns
@doug65536 The rule is, if it's German, capitalize nounds
09:11
@R.MartinhoFernandes citation needed
@thecoshman That was really low.
omg that is a unicode character?
@thecoshman You can cite me if you want.
@doug65536 ...
offensive :)
09:12
@doug65536 Why wouldn't it?
too far?
@thecoshman Sometimes a joke is too soon. Sometimes it's too old.
@sehe hardly
well, it's not actually a character right? interesting though
Godwin's law much?
09:12
@sehe That depends on which direction the glyph is "rotating" in. :-)
@thecoshman Some people will certainly think that went too far. FTR: I don't, but I'm acting on behalf of existing 'consensus'
@TonyTheLion I'd say this room does rather well to avoid it
(Yes that consensus stems from the time when the ape was still owner and it related to nazi jokes)
@sehe let those who will get upset get upset for them selves
09:13
@Insilico It was waving. Veeeeery slowly
@doug65536 Yes, it is.
@thecoshman Nope.
@sehe Anne frankly, this shit is getting old.
.... aw that's really bad
09:14
@thecoshman Go ahead, be a jerk
@sehe I will
is this using those things that backstep and overwrite? or is it actually a codepoint
hey! that was perfectly peaceful!
@thecoshman +1 kudo's for correcting spellung
09:15
@doug65536 It is a codepoint. Why wouldn't it?
You see that reverse cross a lot on Japanese maps.
ow. there's some obvious splanation for that
@sehe ಠ_ಠ
oh I don't know. the holocaust maybe?
@doug65536 Oh. Not again.
09:16
@doug65536 Nope.
Unicode is for encoding stuff people may want to use in writing.
oh sure, keep the holocaust joke... but a harmless swastika and you through the toys out the pram!
you're trying to evoke someone to be upset. you're pretending its perfectly alright? I'm not starting anything
@thecoshman who?
@thecoshman and there isn't a joke
@sehe your self and tony
The swastika is encoded in the CJK Unified Ideographs block because it is a Chinese character.
There are also four more swastikas in the Tibet block.
09:17
@thecoshman lol. get a life.
3 mins ago, by StackedCrooked
@sehe Anne frankly, this shit is getting old.
@sehe I told you, I tried that but got beat down by oppressive heat
oh I see. it predates it - it's just the same symbol from ancient time. whatever lol
Just so you know, the swastika is commonly used in Japan and China still to this day
@thecoshman You thought that's a joke? Also, you're proving a complete lack of discriminatory capacity
09:18
I wonder how your man ended up with that symbol though... what was the thought process... (serious question)
Trolls be trolling.
@sehe of course I thought it was a joke. what do you mean by the latter?
@thecoshman Surely you are referring to yourself when you found it necessary to post it in chat?
@thecoshman You seem to suggest the quoted bad "joke" was similar to your posting Unicode curiosities
09:20
@R.MartinhoFernandes nothing like sitting at work with a screen full of swastikas :S
@thecoshman It was a popular good luck symbol. You can lead up the events from that point.
@thecoshman Try that in Germany.
@thecoshman I'm going to sit a woke. Afk
09:21
Anyway, I think tetraskelion is a much cooler name.
for what?
wait... Nazi's actually believed there where Aryan Indians?
@TonyTheLion s/\?/m?/g
09:22
I spelled horizontal as 'hozitonal' in an answer, lol
@Pubby nice
And no, that whole thing is not this thing's Unicode name.
fileformat.info fails here.
@R.MartinhoFernandes fileformat.info even links to a blog post explaining the "fail": blogs.msdn.com/b/michkap/archive/2006/02/09/528337.aspx
Yeah.
So, epic fail.
09:27
What's it called when you ask a question when you really want to know something else? "AB question"?
(That "Every Character Has a Story" series is really nice, btw)
@Pubby The "XY problem"
@Insilico Thanks
@Pubby In 2003, Yannick W. wrote an assembly routine library to Clear the screen with hozitonal and vertical lines (it is not really faster than BASIC : 6sec instead of 8sec). So it's not insane
@sehe Heh
09:30
It's only for TI-83/84 assembly, though...
hmm
does the Standard define what happens if a thread's function leaks an exception?
@DeadMG I think it's undefined.
Or calls std::terminate().
14
Q: What happens when an exception goes unhandled in a multithreaded C++11 program?

R. Martinho FernandesIf I have a C++11 program running two threads, and one of them throws an unhandled exception, what happens? Will the entire program die a fiery death? Will the thread where the exception is thrown die alone (and if so, can I obtain the exception in this case)? Something else entirely?

@R.MartinhoFernandes Ah, so my second guess was right.
Yeah, the entire program will die a fiery death.
09:35
I think a std::kill_it_with_fire(); is totally warranted in the next standard. :)
3
0
Q: Why is no return type specified in this function clearly returns?

andrewxI am seeing this in a piece of sample code: operator Vector2<float>() const { return Vector2<float>(x, y); } My 2 questions about this: 1) The function clearly returns, but there's no return type specified? 2) It's not clear exactly what is getting overloaded here,...

^^ What kind of syntax is that?
std::cremate_self();
namespace std {
    [[noreturn]] void die_a_fiery_death() {
        terminate();
    }
}
@Mysticial Conversion operator.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Also C++11?
09:36
fuck...
@DeadMG std::commit_suicide();
I really don't know C++.
join the club
@Mysticial Don't worry, neither does a lot of people.
@TonyTheLion std::kill_it_with_fire(std::intensity_type) where enum intensity_type{ freeze, crash, hardwareerror, hdafailure, massiveburndamage, ohgoditburns...}
09:37
lol
also, std::I_hate_this_shit(); would be nice :P
@R.MartinhoFernandes Heh, 99 upvotes. Now 100!
@TonyTheLion std::fuck_this_shit();
std::miracle(): solves your problem.
09:38
Also, dupe closing?... Please?
I've just learned that the worst thing that can happen to me in my job is server falling on my head
@R.MartinhoFernandes wow... That one's gotten a lot of votes since I last visited it.
@BartekBanachewicz That would hurt quite a bit.
@Insilico I have shitty keyboard here
@Insilico Reminds me of FML as a log level.
09:40
Someone should update that faq to mention explicit operator
man
sbi made a boo-boo
does anyone have a badge?
@Insilico I guess so. 2nd one was running into a wall.
> While the user defined ones (because they are syntactic sugar for method calls) do not use shortcut semantics.
this is not necessarily true at all
09:40
So conversion operators are used for implicit conversions?
@Mysticial well, yeah?
@Mysticial Yes. That's why they're looked down upon. (And why explicit conversion operators were introduced in C++11.)
@Mysticial Or explicit, if marked with explicit. (this part is C++11)
Wouldn't it be better to define a user-defined literal with C++11?
They can be used for explicit too without explicit
09:41
@DeadMG Why not?
@R.MartinhoFernandes Because if you are using expression templates, then you choose when to evaluate that expression.
@Rapptz Different use cases.
I guess.
@DeadMG Nonsense.
@R.MartinhoFernandes so when you want to use A(B) you can either write B::operator A or A::A(B) ?
09:42
If you are using expression templates you always evaluate the whole expression template.
So are (non-explicit) constructors better than conversion operators?
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, yes, but that's not always the expression which is actually to be evaluated.
The fact that doing so has no side-effects is irrelevant.
@Pubby I would say they are preferred, but I can't pinpoint why I feel that way.
@Pubby I don't see why.
09:43
the point is that if you're a user, then it is in fact entirely possible for expr1 || expr2 to appear to have shortcut semantics, even if || is overloaded.
huh, sublime text seems to have problems doing folding when there are comments
@Rapptz You cannot use the user-defined literal syntax with non-literals, i.e. you need a compile-time value.
@DeadMG You mean short-circuit, no?
yeah
@DeadMG Yes, it is also entirely possible for that to do a million other things.
What he wrote is not wrong at all.
09:44
in Visual Studio is MFC the only way to make a windows form app total unmanaged/native?
Of course the idea in using operators effectively is to not be a complete dumbass.
@sabgenton Of course not.
(assuming it's not somehow hooking in to .NET /clr
@R.MartinhoFernandes He kinda implies that it simply does not offer those semantics, which is not true, because it's quite possible for it to offer them.
@DeadMG Because it does not.
@sabgenton Everything that .NET does can be done with only the Windows API. The .NET framework does sit on top of it, after all.
09:45
It always builds the tree for the left side.
It's just way harder and more painful.
the tree is an irrelevant implementation detail, assuming that the implementer did not go batshit insane
@DeadMG It is not.
and by that logic, the regular || isn't short-circuit either, the compiler still has to build the parse tree for both sides
(x + y) || launch_missiles()
Good luck not launching those missiles.
09:47
well, I'mma nip to the toilet, and when I get back, I will do precisely that.
@DeadMG It is not irrelevant. Expression templates are still leaky as fuck.
true || (bool)((x + y) || launch_missiles()) // crisis averted
That drops the addition.
@DeadMG Btw, you don't get to write the missile launching function.
@Insilico when they introduced windows forms to mfc was that total unmanaged or is there managed-ness in MFCs?
@R.MartinhoFernandes Whoever wrote that missile launching function is an idiot. Should've added a location parameter for maximum code reuse.
09:49
when it comes to windows forms
@Insilico It assumes you did the aiming beforehand.
@sabgenton I honestly don't know. I don't use MFC.
#define launch_missiles give_pubby_a_dollar // crisis averted
Did I ever show you guys the worst case of pseudo-Java C++ I've seen?
:)
@Rapptz Do we want to see it?
09:50
@Rapptz Wouldn't that be every Stack Overflow question tagged as both and ?
Trust me this stuff was pretty bad.
@Insilico Kill yourself.
-8
Q: What is the difference between the following design patterns:

ajay Abstract Factory Pattern Factory method pattern Builder pattern E.g. This is Abstract Factory pattern public class MazeGame{ public static Maze createMazeGame(MazeFactory factory){ // Use factory methods here to create the game } } public class MazeFactory{ // factory methods pub...

@R.MartinhoFernandes Why not? It's quite possible for me to be the author of that function.
09:51
I don't see what kind of point that would prove.
@BartekBanachewicz How can I argue against such brilliant logic.
Because it is also quite possible that you are not.
return ; on a function that returns int. How nice.
@R.MartinhoFernandes True. But I only ever said that it was possible.
Or does return ; return 0?
09:52
@Pubby Ha! It was tagged as both and .
more to the point, if I overload || for expression templates on both sides, then my overload won't be invoked if I do (x + y) || launch_missiles().
@Insilico that's the point. It's an abomination
so that's still safe, even if I did not author launch_missiles().
@Insilico That's the most downvoted question with both those tags
I have no idea what you are trying to say.
09:52
@Pubby The whole 100% object didn't phase you? :( Honestly I was confused
-3
Q: How to use if-else condition in Switch

Sagar KholeI am going to use if-else condition in switch statement,is any possible solution for that?

@Rapptz Not really. Looks fine to me.
@DeadMG So user-defined operators can be short-circuiting when they are not the ones used?
WTF.
I think I am just going to file this as yet another bunch of puppy nonsense and go back to work.
@Rapptz I am going to use if-else condition in switch statement,. NOW rly, I am going to take over the world. Is there any solution for that?
@R.MartinhoFernandes You are the one who came up with a circumstance in which it would not be called. Not me.
Anyway, you have to build your expression templates from some non-expression template.
09:56
true, it has to be expression templates all the way down
but the non-expression-template involved can often be just a no-side-effects expression
@Insilico I'm really asking what has windows form integration theses days. 1. NET 2. MFC's 3..?
Saying that they look short-circuiting when the short-circuiting is irrelevant is not very useful.
not reinventing the wheel
@sabgenton Windows Forms is a .NET library.
09:58
The puppy spews nonsense. How not abnormal.
@R.MartinhoFernandes You can still use them to short-circuit anything in an expression template. Admittedly, that means you have to be somewhat careful about your interface, but still.
@DeadMG from codeguru.com "Thankfully, the situation improves with MFC 8.0. It contains a bunch of new classes that allow Windows Forms controls to be hosted within MFC Views and MFC Dialogs. This article doesn't drill into the various classes and technologies that are used to achieve this integration (Part II will), but it instead looks at how simple using the integration is."
@sabgenton Okay. So what's your question?
@DeadMG What that means is that you have to build in lazy evaluation by other means, because the damn operators cannot be.
10:01
@DeadMG Is that to do with .net / managed then?
@sabgenton Did you read the article? Surely it will answer that question.
I suspect someone will end up in the puppy's plonk list.
I like to think 60% of the gravatars in the lounge are tiny to the puppy.
Almost everyone in the room is a regular though
@Insilico DeadMG has answered my question I think windows forms is .NET therefore MFC is using .NET in that context. This also answers my main question nothing out side .NET can do windows forms
10:12
Isn't it obvious that WinForms is .NET?
@Insilico I assume you took me for asking can I make a form out side of .NET rather than use 'Windows forms'
It asks you what version of .NET you want to use when you make the WinForms application..
@Mysticial You mean the Bart Simpson one, right? Don't have it handy, sorry.
Why would you keep memes in your cellphone?
For those who don't get it: "Handy" is German for "cell phone".
10:16
@Rapptz sorry I'm a noob looking at various options to programme round win32 in VS
@FredOverflow thanks
Why don't you use C# and WPF
Seems to be the popular choice these days.
yes definitely
I want to learn C++/cli for mixed mode reasons too though
error C2784: "bool std::operator <(const std::_Tree<_Traits> &,const std::_Tree<_Traits> &)": template-Argument für "const std::_Tree<_Traits> &" konnte nicht von "const Name" hergeleitet werden.
Siehe Deklaration von 'std::operator <'
Bei der Kompilierung der  Klassen-template der bool std::less<_Ty>::operator ()(const _Ty &,const _Ty &) const-Memberfunktion
Gotta love them template error messages :)
WTF why are your error messages localized.
what's with the german.
10:19
someone I know does direct x stuff then mixed mode for WPF intergration
@R.MartinhoFernandes Because Visual Studio? Dunno.
I use Visual Studio and have English error messages.
Maybe I downloaded the German version?
my system language and shit is set to Korean/japanese but I still get english errors so probably?
Well, the download folder is called "Visual Studio Professional 2012 (x86) - DVD (German)", so that's probably a strong hint :)
10:22
1
Q: C++ Explicit Constructor

Taru StolovichI have a class with 2 constructors. explicit MyClass(size_t num); template<class T> MyClass(T myObj); And I want that whenever I make MyClass obj( 30 ); The first constructor will be called, And on implicit constructors and MyClass obj = 30; The second ctor will be called. ...

Any answer to this? I can't figure out how to do it.
@Pubby Yes, there is one answer :)
there's an answer to it
Never heard of any such thing. — NPE 7 mins ago
That's not a good one though
I want to overload on explicitness
Meaning I could have these:
explicit foo(T);
foo(T);
and the first would be called when constructed like foo(t) and second like foo f = t;
I can't find a way to resolve ambiguity on the first
10:38
isocpp> Embarcadero C++ Builder XE3 released: Highly-conforming Clang-based C++11 compiler
3
holy fuck, C++ builder is built on clang
I can't believe, did they just dropped old BC++ codes?
as if anyone was using BC++ for about the last fifteen years
well, probably some people did. for legacy code, etc
@Abyx hm. interesting
it's not a free compiler after all (IIRC)
10:44
@DeadMG Well, they certainly hope to change that. And they have an actually interesting selling point now.
@BartekBanachewicz I mean some people buy it, if it's still alive
Shit, I think I burned my tongue.
@Abyx Compiler != IDE
@BartekBanachewicz The compiler ships with the IDE.
@BartekBanachewicz I know.
10:45
@R.MartinhoFernandes Of course, but for example, is MSVS compiler free? Yes.
@BartekBanachewicz But the Borland Embarcadero one isn't.
You buy it with the IDE.
Nice way to pay for clang and notepad, if you ask me
thanks for clarification, though.
well, it's definitely useless without its IDE with the form creator
It still has competititive price. Anyway, I'm going to burn my tongue too. Coffee!
Holy puppeteer's pocket packet - the sled animation just scared the shit out of me
10:52
I just saw 227k rep guy answering 26 rep question. -.-
Like he has nothing better to do, apparently
@Zeta Is that a Known Space reference?
@BartekBanachewicz At that level you just answer because you like it, not for reputation
@yetihehe I was under impression you answer because you like it regardless of your reputation
I was under impression you were not under that impression
I'm impressed.

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