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23:00
@sbi I ought to remember that one. :)
hmmm
who dafuq is "Danny"?
and "Wurstwasser"?
@DeadMG Danny is your nanny.
@DeadMG That sounds like salami water.
@Chimera You sound weird today.
Are you drunk or something?
oh, makes me think... [steamid] netcoder1
sbi
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes Salami is but one type of "Wurst".
23:04
@R.MartinhoFernandes Nah, just screwing around. :-)
@Chimera Ok, just checking.
sbi
sbi
@Chimera You are screwing whom? And isn't she uncomfortable that you're typing in a chat room at the same time?
@DeadMG Sounds like the water that's left after you've heated a pair of wieners in it.
@DeadMG How are we supposed to know?
@sbi Because they're in the Steam group for the Lounge
so presumably, somebody in here is Danny
@sbi :-)
sbi
sbi
@DeadMG A "Steam group"? Sounds like something @Tony should be involved. Tell me more, please.
23:06
I know right, the Cat is PiotrLegnica, whatever the fuck that means
@netcoder It means "his proper name"
sbi
sbi
@netcoder It's his first and last name. And considering he is Polish, that's as easy to pronounce as they come.
Wait, what?
What country is that from?
sbi
sbi
23:07
You guys are lame.
@sbi It's a group on Steam.
It's not my last name :cripes:
sbi
sbi
@DeadMG I am "on steam" if one of the kids broke something. What's it mean when you say that?
@sbi It's from Cleveland.
@sbi My name is probably as hard to pronounce and fucked up to read.
23:08
@sbi Steam. It's a game store/manager/wannabe social network thing.
Ell
Ell
Pie eater
sbi
sbi
@netcoder Depends on for whom. I mean, what their native language is. Your profile says you're from Canandada.
@Ell No! How could you accuse me of eating pie?! My life, it is ruined.
Ell
Ell
Leg knickers
@deadmg fraid pie eating is a criminal offence. You're goin in the slammer.
sbi
sbi
@StackedCrooked Is that where they invented cleavage?
23:10
@sbi Obviously. Although my first name is pretty standard, Francis. My last name is right out French. There is no way to prounounce that other than in french.
sbi
sbi
@DeadMG Ah, that. I heard about it. :) Why is everybody using it?
@netcoder French sounds Greek to me.
@sbi Erm.. you could Google Cleveland and steam. But I recommend you remain ignorant.
@sbi Honestly? Because it sells games for ridiculously low prices, lets you download them whenever you want, and also allows you to chat whilst playing and other various social thingies.
Btw, it was a lame joke to start with.
sbi
sbi
@StackedCrooked Oh. I didn't know that one.
@sbi Convenience for one. You install the client on your new computer and you can sync your old games.
@sbi Greek I have no fucking idea. German I can understand, spoken only (not read), but definitely cannot speak it (yet). :P Names are a different story though.
sbi
sbi
@DeadMG Ok. And what's the disadvantage?
@sbi What disadvantage?
@sbi Impulsive purchases.
23:13
no reselling I assume
@bamboon EU law clearly states otherwise- at least, for the Europeans.
besides, I don't particularly want to resell my games, but I could do.
sbi
sbi
@DeadMG At my age, I have come to the conclusion that everything that screams "it's all better, easier, nicer!" on the outside comes with some disadvantages, sometimes more hidden, sometimes more obvious.
@DeadMG You cannot resell subscriptions.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm not subscribing to anything.
A possible disadvantage is that if the company goes out of business then it's not clear if your purchases can still be accessed.
Ell
Ell
23:15
The annoyance of steam is that games are massof and I have slow intenert
sbi
sbi
@DeadMG Like with ebooks, huh? Where you obtain a using right, rather than the book, and that "right" can be withdrawn at any time, at the vendor's will.
@Ell Yeah, 10GB download is a small game.
@sbi I don't know about elsewhere, but the EU courts just smacked that right down.
sbi
sbi
@Ell Can you try that again, please, this time in English?
I legally own every game I have on Steam, and I have the same rights as for any physical copy
23:16
@DeadMG Guess you did not read the service agreement then.
sbi
sbi
@DeadMG Have you been hiding under a rock? There was this case of a woman from... where was that now? Sweden?... who got all her ebooks wiped from her kindle just a few weeks ago. Made big splash in the media.
Ell
Ell
Not all vendors are evil, you gotta trust the system :P
the annoyance of steam is that all the games are big and I have slow internet
@R.MartinhoFernandes The service agreement is invalidated by the court case.
they probably give the same agreement to all English-speakers, regardless of how valid it really is.
@sbi Have you been hiding under a rock? Not knowing what Steam is? :P
@Ell You can't trust the system: youtube.com/watch?v=gAYL5H46QnQ
@DeadMG What case?
@DeadMG Nope, they don't. EU citizens get an agreement with a Valve from Luxemburg.
sbi
sbi
23:18
@netcoder Well, I knew it was a place to get games, but I haven't really played any games in the last three or four years, so I didn't have to bother looking it up.
Ell
Ell
@netcoder amen to that :L
@R.MartinhoFernandes The one where they banned stuff like forbidding resale.
@sbi Is probably the reason why the EU courts decided to smack them all. That woman probably sued Amazon and got a bunch of money or her stuff back, or both.
@DeadMG Under certain circumstances which do not apply to the current Steam Service Agreement.
Haha rights for physical copies
You own nothing
@R.MartinhoFernandes The Steam Service Agreement is just a contract, and that contract can be overruled by law, just like any other.
when you agree, they don't actually have all the rights they say they do
sbi
sbi
23:21
@DeadMG You should come back from under your rock. The only reason this got any attention at all was that a friend of hers blogged it, and it got shared enough for the media to pick it up. I think Amazon later apologized to her — for doing it for the wrong reasons, not for doing it at all.
@DeadMG The point is that the contract was written in such a way that it does not contradict the law.
@DeadMG Yes, that is the reason they updated "fixed" the SSA.
@R.MartinhoFernandes It does now.
@DeadMG Nope. It changed after that thing.
Aug 1 at 10:16, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Hmm, Valve changed Steam's subscriber agreement. I'm not happy.
Notice the dates.
23:24
@R.MartinhoFernandes There is no way to change the SSA such as to overrule a court ruling.
@DeadMG FFS, the SSA changed so that the ruling does not apply.
You don't have a license with unlimited time.
The ruling only applies in those cases.
sbi
sbi
> NRA Sets 1,000 Killed In School Shooting As Amount It Would Take For Them To Reconsider Much Of Anything — The Onion
The onion is amazing.
all that's gonna happen is that someone else is going to sue them for resale rights, and the EU will probably grant it
user142019
Installing Arch is going well. :^)
sbi
sbi
23:26
@DeadMG Keep dreaming, kiddo.
@DeadMG Whatever, you clearly don't want to listen.
Well they are testing that Market thingy
So maybe they'll allow resales in the future
@CatPlusPlus What market?
sbi
sbi
Stages of Debugging
1. That can't happen.
2. That doesn't happen on my machine.
3. That shouldn't happen.
4. Why does that happen?
5. Oh, I see.
6. How did that ever work?
7. svn blame
8. one day we will write tests
23:28
There, I did something today
sbi
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes SteamExchange, presumably.
Oh, that sounds steamy, again.
@CatPlusPlus Ah, hats, lol.
Everything starts with hats
Steam Inventory started with hats too :v
> LaPierre said, explaining that if an uzi-carrying 16-year-old only kills 45 percent of a school's total population, the NRA would still be more inclined to blame the shooting on poor parenting, and wouldn't consider soft gun laws to be part of the problem.
sbi
sbi
Interesting website, that. They don't bother with having a www server, they redirect right to store. At least you don't have to wonder what they're all about.
23:30
Nobody uses www subdomain anymore
It makes little sense
(And if they do, it's just for redirect purposes, so that Google doesn't index the two as two separate sites)
@sbi 7.5. What did I smoke that day?
sbi
sbi
I didn't know Google, Amazon, Apple, and Microsoft became nobodies. TTBOMK, they still were somebody yesterday. Such is the web.
@netcoder How should I know what you guys smoke in Montreal?
Google doesn't need to be indexed on Google, and the rest I don't know
There's very little reason to use www. subdomain
So vOv
Probably ancient setups
sbi
sbi
A star? Really. That's probably the weakest thing I've said in half an hour of alcohol-fueled sarcasm exegeses, and you star that? You poor sucker. Oh, it's gone already. So at least you're not all over the top yet.
@sbi Oh it's good stuff, oh yeah. My point was though, after all these debugging steps, svn blame and all, you find out (sometimes) that you fucked it up. Hence my previous comment.
23:35
So, I discovered a folder in my projects folder
and it's called modern_entry_point
sbi
sbi
@CatPlusPlus Yes, it's back from the times when serving WWW was just one of many services domains provided.
@CatPlusPlus Have you ticked "run"?
It's been obsolete since TCP ports and SRV domain records
So basically forever
@sbi No
sbi
sbi
@netcoder And you really think I didn't get that?
@CatPlusPlus You are... how old, exactly? 25 years? I bet you consider anything half as old as that as "forever".
sbi
sbi
23:38
@CatPlusPlus Oh, I had put you down for at least 18.
What would you expect from modern main() wrapper, besides e.g. vector<string> as an argument?
@sbi Those are cat years.
Here I have exception catching with Boost.Exception
sbi
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes You mean they are lazy and sleepy?
23:39
@CatPlusPlus Maybe a global mainargs that allows me to access those arguments anywhere I need to?
No, that's ugly
@sbi Interestingly, I start from the other end.
sbi
sbi
> When the 2nd Amendment was written the most lethal gun available was the musket. — Andy Borowitz
Well, I guess it could be an option
23:40
Noooooooo.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I dunno. Sometimes I think it's nice to have that kind of stuff available whereever you need it, rather than having to pass it down explicitly.
@ThePhD You think wrong.
@sbi I know you did. I just like typing on this keyboard. It's soft and clickets (whatever) when I type on it.
sbi
sbi
@JohanLundberg You mean you first hunt down your bugs, and then your write them?
@ThePhD Why does that reasoning apply to command-line arguments but not to everything else?
Make globals everywhere.
23:41
@R.MartinhoFernandes I dunno. I'd figure user input was something worth preserving.
sbi
sbi
@ThePhD This kind of thinking, to The Dark Side it leads.
Btw, have you noticed those are called command-line arguments?
Tbh, I never made the full distinction between arguments and parameters...
sbi
sbi
@ThePhD If you really think that, you should spend a week or two manning a support phone number. That will cure you. Most users are moron, the the most valuable they've ever produced happened in the bathroom.
@ThePhD Just like most things in a program are worth preserving.
@ThePhD That distinction is irrelevant here.
sbi
sbi
23:43
@ThePhD That's a very weak parameter you're bringing up there.
@sbi trolololo
And anyway, you don't want to access a bunch of strings.
sbi
sbi
@user931794 What happened to your tongue, girl? You're lolling.
What was your plan? To parse them "whereever you need it"?
@sbi wat you did there... I seeeeeee it.
23:44
@sbi Something like 8, 6, 7, 5 ...
sbi
sbi
Now he's asking for a plan. How embarrassing.
@JohanLundberg If you consider that a proper countdown, you should get some help debugging it.
@user931794 So they all think. Initially.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes? No. Maybe? I dunno. It just seems like a worse and worse idea in retrospect so I think I'll just pass them off where they need to go.
Oooh, though since they're an array of chars, you could just keep a pointer to the data at all times globally.
I mean that wouldn't be so bad, right?
@ThePhD And parse it whereever you need it?
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yep!
I mean, obviously there's things you'd only want to parse once.
Then why the fuck do you want to the array of chars available as a global.
sbi
sbi
23:47
@ThePhD Oh no, don't give in to us so soon. Please, keep defending it, we have little else to laugh about right now.
But the convenience of being able to do that anywhere would be nice. :3c
@sbi Hey it's not soooo bad an idea to just keep the pointers available.
sbi
sbi
@ThePhD Why?
@sbi I don't know it's just for the hell of it!
@ThePhD It is a worse idea than keeping the vector.
@ThePhD I actually know of a library root.cern.ch that starts parsing argc when you load it.
That is a terrible idea
23:49
@ThePhD You can make it global yourself if you really want to (please don't)
sbi
sbi
@ThePhD But it's not inherently great to be able to do something anywhere. (The convenience of fucking your gf anywhere doesn't sound like something you'd want to make lots of use of.)
@JohanLundberg Considering it's an int, it's indeed a terrible idea.
@JohanLundberg Well... I wouldn't expect parsing to be done for you. That's just... not really fair. And would make it easy for someone to stall your app by sending it a giant command line argument or something.
@sbi Good point.
The C++ library was dynamically loaded from a python code in my case.. So then I got exceptions from the loaded library when it did not like the arguments to my python program...
@ThePhD Programs parse command-lines, not libraries.
sbi
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's actually not true. I wrote a C# library that parses your command line for you.
23:51
I don't want to pass a bunch of strings instead of actual arguments to a library.
R. if they are not called root
WTF is wrong with you.
They just changed the font layout on meta.
Interesting...
sbi
sbi
@Mysticial Ah, is that why the site was so shaky this week?
@R.MartinhoFernandes You talking to me?
@sbi I guess...
23:53
Who ever modified argv
@CatPlusPlus That's what I had to do (from python) to let that lib load!
Well in my case modifying argv would actually be UB
Not UB. Platform-dependent :.
non-coincidentally, root also contains neat classes such as this one root.cern.ch/root/html/TH2D.html
inherit ftw
sbi
sbi
I should go to bed and catch up on sleep. Yawns. Good night, folks!
Great name.
@sbi Good night.
23:56
Welp, I can't bring myself to write code
ITT Cat sucks.
There. Just submitted two pull requests on the VintageEx mode for SublimeText.
SO homepage looks different.....I hate it!!!
Fonts changed on SO also now
It looks like this editor is costing me time already
23:58
I don't see any difference
smaller fonts
same layout
Oh no what a breaking change
2
user142019
Hurray I got Arch booting.
They also changed the up-down voting thingy. It looks smaller and thinner. So ugly!
5
You'll get a badge after you manage to keep it booting for a year doing upgrades every day
It looks literally the same way as before
user142019
23:59
Eww indeed the vote count looks fucking ugly.

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