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2:15 AM
If there is a Creator for the lives on earth, the creator is probably is fond of t-rex/chicken (since the closest relative to t-rex is chicken). T-rex used to roam around independently on earth in large numbers, now they are smaller, but more in numbers as co-dependent.
 
 
9 hours later…
nwp
10:53 AM
I remember a black hole merger sound 10s of seconds long where the black holes would spin around each other with a "woop woop" sound of increasing frequency, but when I search for black hole merge sounds it's only that weird short NASA sound that doesn't have any "woop woop" in it.
Maybe I just imagined it which would be unfortunate because I kinda need that for a reference.
 
 
2 hours later…
12:44 PM
@nwp NASA has been about to record the sound of two black holes merge?
 
nwp
Yes. It's from some years ago though.
It's also very underwhelming in my opinion. You really need to get into the "omg it's black holes so cool" mindset to appreciate the sound.
 
...
You have never thought the sound could be fake?
Do you know what are black holes?
If light could not escape, how could sound?
 
it's obviously not from matter beyond the event horizon
 
nwp
It's fake in the sense that those black holes are surrounded by vacuum and no sound can propagate. The sound has been translated from gravitational waves into sound waves because we're decent at hearing sound and unable to hear gravitational waves.
 
there's plenty of stuff around the black hole outside of the event horizon
 
nwp
12:50 PM
And gravitational waves do escape black holes, if they make any. And they only do that during mergers as far as I know.
 
they "escape" black holes the same way the gravity of black holes "escapes" them
 
nwp
Technically pretty much everything makes gravitational waves, but only those caused by ginormous black holes can be detected on Earth with some effort.
 
@Mgetz g++ seems to export and import all symbols by default, which looks more sane to me, even if it likely costs more link time. — Eugene 14 mins ago
I just...
wut
Except that's insane, it prohibits tons of optimizations and is considered a major anti-pattern to the point gcc introduced a flag to prevent it. Ideally you only want your API visible otherwise you have to support a never changing ABI which is nearly impossible. When you export by default you de-facto prohibit inlining by the compiler because the compiler must have a symbol to link to etc. That destroys performance as well. — Mgetz 1 min ago
 
nwp
Technically it doesn't prohibit inlining. The symbol must be made available, but call sites can still inline it.
This reminds me of someone saying you can disregard any sentence that starts with "technically" 🤡
 
@nwp no they can't because the symbol must be replaceable with LD_PRELOAD
which is its own ball of horrible
 
 
6 hours later…
7:11 PM
@Morwenn Just rereading an old conversation with ThePhD. I didn't even remember that you also liked Yuki Kajiura's music.
 
@StackedCrooked How couldn't I like her music? ^^
She's literally the only anime music writer I can name
 
I agree. I just forgot that you also knew her :)
@Morwenn Same.
 
And that's despite playing other OSTs in a looping fashion ^^'
I don't know how many times I've listened to the Girls' Last Tour and Yuru Camp OSTs :x
 
@StackedCrooked Morwenn's got them all sorted.
 
@Morwenn Yeah, there's a lot of good anime music, but I don't know the names of the composers. Except for Yuki.
@JerryCoffin Oh you :D
 
7:16 PM
Oh wait, also Joe Hisaishi, but calling it anime would probably be the death of me
 
I don't know him, but according to Wikipedia he made music for the Miyazaki movies. That sounds like anime to me.
 
It's indeed him, but Miyazaki's takes on anime are something else xD
Speaking of ThePhD, that new blog post is something :')
 
@StackedCrooked You didn't really expect me to pass up a chance at a pun like that, did you?
 
@Morwenn Yeah, he's become a really good writer.
I've only read the first few paragraphs, planning to read the rest next week.
 
It's like reading novels each time, I really like those articles ^^
 
7:53 PM
 
lol, that article is quite something
I'm still not at the end and I'm already exhausted by the state of things it paints
 
8:09 PM
The MSVC bashing is both extremely funny, well-deserved and very scary
 
@Morwenn Well deserved in some ways, but quite the opposite in others. At least at one time, Microsoft worked very hard at clearly defining the delineation between API and ABI, and had pretty carefully written specs for how to do an ABI that was stable, document, usable across a variety of implementations, and so on. Unfortunately, it was also clumsy, ugly, error prone and generally painful. The primary source of the problem is really Linux.
 
I saw the stable-std::format-ABI-from-day-0 almost happening from the sides and it was scary
 
In the beginning, UNIX was kept simple by the simple strategy of using static linking for everything. But then Linux switched to dynamic linking without really building a mechanism for doing it stably, so now ABI stability is maintained by basically stopping the universe in ways that affect not only binaries, but also the source code.
 
Until the very end it felt like "yeah, we're gonna ship it ABI-stable with a mistake, we know it, but people want std::format now"
At least they'll be more mindful of that in the future, which at least is a good thing
 
@JerryCoffin Maybe I'm misunderstanding the problem. But AFAIK it's about the ability to link a program compiled with a recent compiler with a library that was compiled with an older version of the compiler. And that's something that Visual Studio also not supports, at least according to the answers to my question back in 2009.
 
8:23 PM
They've been supporting not breaking ABI for a few releases now
Since around MSVC 2015 I think?
 
@Morwenn Sounds about right, anyway.
 
"And that's something that Visual Studio also not supports", damn I was using Dutch grammar when I wrote that.
FYI, I meant "does not support" :)
 
@StackedCrooked The big problem is that with Linux, glibc.so is basically subsumed as an integral part of the OS, so you end up with massive amounts of "stuff" that depends on some specific version, and any ABI breakage is a huge thing. But they've never really separated the stable interface from the implementation.
@StackedCrooked Yeah, I figured that. But then I grew up in part of the US occupied largely by German and Dutch immigrants, so I got used to things like: "I will throw the cow over the fence some hay."
Oh, and the most fun of all: a number of them were German-Russians. People whose distant ancestors were (if memory serves) Prussian soldiers, hired by Russia. They lived in Russia for centuries, but kept to their own little enclaves. As long as they stayed "outsiders", they didn't have to pay taxes, so quite a few of them stayed until (about) the Soviet Revolution. They continued to speak German from the 1600s (or so) right up until they learned English after moving to the US.
 
@JerryCoffin Hm, even in Dutch that doesn't make sense ("Ik zal de koe gooien over de omheining een beetje hooi"). Maybe this is better: "Ik zal de koe hooi smijten over de omheining", or when translated (absurdly) literally: "I will the cow throw hay over the fence" (less absurdly: "I will throw the cow hay over the fence.")
 
8:41 PM
@StackedCrooked Well, I'm going from 40-50 year-old memories, so my remembering incorrectly is more than just possible.
 
I'm not saying your memories are wrong.
I'm sure their dutch grammar became a english-dutch hybrid and then english.
 
@StackedCrooked Probably--but my memory being wrong is almost extremely likely. But also the German-Russians spoke German strangely enough it was tough for other Germans to communicate with them as well.
 
@JerryCoffin They came in the 1600s and stayed until the Soviet Revolution?
That's a weirdly long time span.
 
@StackedCrooked Something like that, anyway. I don't remember for sure--could have been 1700's, but they were apparently there for well over a century in any case.
Of course, the ones who'd been born in "the old country" weren't my age--mostly my friends' grandparents.
 
8:51 PM
One of these days I should try playing some games with the sound on. When I used to play games, I cared more about my score, and found sound distracting, so I almost always played with the sound turned off. And yes, I realize this isn't from a game, it just reminded me of that.
 
Wait, I've got another one that makes you feel like you're exhausted and have low blood pressure
It's impressive what music can do
 
@JerryCoffin Makes me wonder what happened to all the people that fled Europe for America. Was their life better there? In Europe things got miserable. In America it might have been better. At least there were more opportunities, but you had to be very entrepreneurial to make it.
 
Hi, sorry this may be off-topic for the main site, is learncpp.com a good reference to learn c++?
 
IIRC learncpp.com is ok
 
8:54 PM
these come on google. Or probably I should look for a book
@Morwenn cool, thank you
 
@JerryCoffin It's OK to turn off the music in games where the same track just keeps repeating itself. However, there are also games where the music changes depending on the scene, in those games, music is essential.
 
@StackedCrooked One of my mom's best friends (from Norway) used to talk about Norwegians coming to America, wondering around for a while until they found the miserable, freezing, rocky, wind-swept hills of South Dakota, and immediately thinking "Ah, it's just like home. We need to stay here."
 
5388
A: The Definitive C++ Book Guide and List

Johannes Schaub - litbBeginner Introductory, no previous programming experience C++ Primer * (Stanley Lippman, Josée Lajoie, and Barbara E. Moo) (updated for C++11) Coming at 1k pages, this is a very thorough introduction into C++ that covers just about everything in the language in a very accessible format and in g...

 
@JerryCoffin That's cool :)
 
@StackedCrooked I usually had the sound turned off by 5 minutes into the first scene, and never turned it back on, at least in most cases.
 
8:56 PM
@Morwenn many thanks! This is for sure what I was looking for.
 
The list should still be up-to-date :)
@JerryCoffin You'd be excellent at Crypt of the Necrodancer
 
@Morwenn That's terrible..
 
@Morwenn Pretty sure I never tried that one.
 
@Morwenn Have you heard this one?
 
@StackedCrooked I find it physically exhausting and yet I come back to it every now and then :')
@StackedCrooked That's an old one
 
8:59 PM
Yeah.
I only discovered it a few years ago.
 
tbh Daft Punk's first album isn't super easy to listen to
and that's even older
 
You mean "Homework"?
 
yeah
 
The track I posted is older than that.
 
There's a few bangers, but you need to be into old techno/house to enjoy the rest
> "and that's even older"
 
9:01 PM
@Morwenn Ah
I listened to Homework a lot when I was a teenager. I really liked the repetitive tracks like "Rolling & Scratching" and "Rock and Roll", but also "Oh Yeah".
 
It took me years to learn to enjoy them
 
I remember humming "Oh Yeah" in class and the guy next to me recognized it :)
For me, it was their only album then :)
 
I started listening to electronic music when Infected Mushroom released Vicious Delicious, after years of mostly metal
Which is much more amenable to the untrained ear than older more repetitive electronic music
tbh it also took me a few years to learn to enjoy Infected Mushroom albums older than Vicious Delicious :')
But it was one banger of a gateway album ^^
 
I did like that album.
 
Even their new stuff is still a real pleasure to listen to
 
9:08 PM
@Morwenn I'm not sure "untrained" is the word I'd use for this. I think I have an idea of what you're getting at, but I think somebody could know quite a lot about music without warming to this at all.
 
What I mean is that it's not meant to "click" off the bat like pop music, it's among genres that you often learn to like slowly as you listen to it
tbh whenever I try to enjoy new music I need to learn how to enjoy it because it often differs between genres
 
@Morwenn Yeah--it takes a while to become accustomed to it the genre, but has little to do with being educated or knowledgeable about music in general.
 
When I was younger I liked fasted and somewhat rich melodies, then I grew to like tight harmonies, then I grew to like atmospheres, beats, and pieces that actually polish their sound to be more than melodies, beats and harmonies
well, by "trained" I meant exactly that: listening to enough of it to get accustomed and understand how to enjoy it
 
@Morwenn That album was released when I was 16 years old. There wasn't much music available at the time. CDs were expensive. So you'd have to borrow CDs from the local library (limited collection) and copy that to cassette.
 
When I was 16 I was listening to Rhapsody and Angra x)
CDs too, I started to get a digital library one or two years later
 
9:14 PM
Before that I was mostly listening to Abba and Queen :)
 
I wasn't into pop
 
Around age 17 I also really got into The Prodigy.
 
I actually used to loathe pop music and electronic music because that was pretty much the attitude of my father when I was younger ^^'
Now he probably dislikes most of what I listen to, even though we children manage to broaden his musical horizons
 
The Prodigy was great
We made a gymnastics choreography on Mindfields with friends during our last year of high school and got a good grade for it :')
 
9:17 PM
Also, I remember talking with my friends about Hey Boy Hey Girl and how awesome it was.
@Morwenn Wow, Mindfields.
 
Lately I've listened to lots of lofi, vaporwave, synthwave and adjacent genres
And I even like select mainstream pop music
What have I become
 
@Morwenn a normie? lol
 
I just stopped shitting on some genres on principle
Still have enough random, unknown and niche things in my library to pretend I'm a hipster :D
Much more people listen to "everything" nowadays thanks to broadly available streaming
Even metal became part of pop culture
 
Yeah, there's no clear distinction anymore.
 
which is a good thing
tight subcultures kind of died though
 
9:23 PM
Back in the 90s you were either a metal guy or a house/techo guy.
I didn't really care about that.
But my brother did.
 
your wallet cared
that was the gist of it
getting into black metal was involved and an investment
 
And he was very concerned about liking "Rage Against the Machine", because as a metalhead it concerned him that they were rapping.
 
oh yeah, the old rap vs. metal xD
 
nu metal managed to lift metal to the rank of pop music during the 2000s though, yet it never got more popular than it was back then
RATM, Linkin Park, System of a Down, Rammstein, etc. no recent metal band has reached their popularity since then
 
9:25 PM
True
I wouldn't classify Rammstein as Nu Metal though..
 
Ghost is kind of the exception, but even then it's not just as cult, and was designed as a kind of commercial project
 
They are kinda like a genre on their own.
 
industrial avant-garde
I just meant they rose to mainstream popularity around the years ^^'
But yeah, it wasn't only new metal
Even when you look at the main stages of big metal festival nowadays, it's often old enough bands
Speaking of pop music, I love Dua Lipa's Future Nostalgia album, and I'm pretty sure @JerryCoffin dislikes it :')
 
The most recent popular song I liked was "Blinding Lights" by the Weekend.
And I discovered that by accident, because I don't listen to new music very often anymore.
 
I haven't really managed to enjoy The Weeknd :/
 
9:29 PM
Really?
 
yup
 
I think it's pleasant to the ears... :)
lol
Did you hear Blinding Lights?
 
I don't know
I just remember that whenever there was The Weeknd on the radio all I felt was a global "meh"
 
^^^ 'Now you know ;)
@Morwenn I get that.
 
I miss the energy of early Skrillex
@StackedCrooked Seems that I hadn't heard it before
Loved the beginning, then I can't get my mind off the beat that just sounds like unrefined synth from when we used synths for beats x)
 
9:34 PM
@Morwenn Dunno about Skrillex. But from what I heard I found it a bit too catchy to be taken seriously... (Lol, that makes sound pretentious...)
 
I wouldn't have described Skrillex as catchy xD
More as randomly violent
 
@Morwenn Is that Skrillex?
 
yeah
I loved that unapologetic house sound with metal energy and reggae/ragga/old dubstep influences
 
@Morwenn Sounds very different from "Bangarang"
 
Oh, Bangarang was his second EP
I liked it too, but the first EP was more what defined his early sound
Kill Everybody, Rock'n'Roll, Equinox
Equinox was the one that was memed the most haha
 
9:45 PM
@Morwenn I don't recognize the name--I'm not sure I've ever listened to form any opinion of it at all (thought it's possible I've listened to it from a link dropped here, and simply don't recall the name).
 
@JerryCoffin Have an example then: youtube.com/watch?v=Nj2U6rhnucI
What I like is specifically the synth-pop, disco and funk influences mixed with modern pop vocals and production
Which should more or less fall into what you dislike :p
 
@Morwenn Hmm....I wouldn't say I dislike it. I have a hard time getting very excited about yet another song about falling in love with the wrong guy, but that's about the worst I'd say about it. And I fully recognize that's more a function of being a good 35 years older than the target demographic--if I were still somewhere close to the right age, I'd probably like it fairly well.
 
I don't really listen to the lyrics though
Otherwise I probably wouldn't listen to pop music
Or metal
I actually tend to avoid French pop because I can't get my brain to ignore the lyrics .-.
 
@JerryCoffin Maybe this is for you.
 
inb4 Johny Cash - Hurt
 
9:55 PM
Inevitably it's going to end there :)
@JerryCoffin (You don't have to listen to the full song. It was a joke..)
 
@Morwenn This is one place I differ from quite a few people. I generally don't really care for background music. I prefer to focus on what I'm doing, so if I'm listening to music, I'm generally paying attention to everything that's there. My "dislike" for things like house music (which isn't so much dislike as just boredom) probably stems from the fact that those aren't really intended to be listened to that way.
 
I love house music while blatantly ignoring the lyrics :x
And I do listen to it without doing much else
 
@JerryCoffin Seems like you like classical music then.
 
@StackedCrooked I do like quite a lot of classical. But also (for one example): youtube.com/watch?v=rsTXN6KK3Mg
 
At my first job as a programmer I had a colleague that loved Joe Satriani as well.
Yeah, it sounds pretty good.
 
10:05 PM
On the other hand, if he'd been born a few centuries more recently, I could almost believe that Bach could have written that as "Variations on a Theme in C major" or something like that, so to me it is almost like classical...
@StackedCrooked There are others that are even closer to classical, come to that. youtube.com/watch?v=o5Ht6WIhhmU, and never to be forgotten: youtube.com/watch?v=M0jOq1SS734
 
I often wonder what Mozart would think if he were confronted with today's music.
I actually have a theory about this: first there would be a culture shock. And once he got over that he would ask: "But where's the melody?"
lol, thus far my theory
 
@StackedCrooked He'd think current pop was boring. But if he'd been born at the right time, I've no doubt he'd have written some serious heavy metal.
Well, I've got to pick kids up from school. Catch you later.
 
@JerryCoffin I agree he would think pop was boring. Not sure about the heavy metal part though..
@JerryCoffin Ok.
 
Also this:
oh damn, the guy kind of ruins it xD
 
11:01 PM
@Morwenn more wind
 
@StackedCrooked He'd have done at least a little heavy metal (whether he personally liked it or not) just to piss off older people.
Oh, one I thought was a lot of fun: youtube.com/…
His expressions are especially funny.
 
This is my favorite heavy metal
 
@Morwenn That's pretty fun.
 
Those guys are pretty good
It's always impressive how Bach sounds good on pretty much any instrument
One of the rare composers whose music is just sufficient by itself
 
@Morwenn He was working with the pure essence of notes themselves, so the coloring and intonation can add to that, but aren't really the key.
 
11:51 PM
But it's impressive how it differs from most other well-known composers after him, who instead tried to take the best out of each instrument
I love Debussy, but his piano pieces wouldn't sound great on most other instruments
 
@Morwenn Yeah. They were composing individual compositions. He was composing the whole of what we now think of as music.
 
Idk, I would disagree
I think it's because he could play "other" instruments
While other composers would master just one or two instruments
 
Some composers make excellent pieces for orchestra bringing the best out of all instruments
 

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