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08:02
Opening the cover of Samsung Galaxy is so similar to open an oyster shell :x
 
4 hours later…
11:33
I bought an iphone 12 today ... was going to wait until A$ improves further, but both my latest android and iphone are 20%-80% broken. Better not break this new phone anytime soon. Also I deserve a new phone as I have not bought a new phone for 3 years.
Let's just forget that yesterday happened and keep the talk neutral please
By keeping it empty?
it's not empty, it's sparse 😜
 
5 hours later…
nwp
nwp
16:50
ExpandEnvironmentStrings no longer expands %ALLUSERSPROFILE% for some reason. I really hope that's only on my computer and we don't have to update everywhere.
@nwp is this hardcoded or from a config file?
17:07
@Mgetz I do hope you're joking. This is utterly ridiculous.
@JerryCoffin given some of the things I saw posted?
@Mgetz Yes. Given what was posted, your response was utterly ridiculous.
I saw flat out conspiracy theories being posted as fact
@Mgetz ...and?
this is an open accepting lounge that is required to abide by the SO code of conduct
leaving that up would only invite antagonism
17:10
@Mgetz What part of what code of conduct do you believe was violated?
@Mgetz I think it's fine, we're a little more thick skinned than most.
lol, I just looked it up "they were just visitors". Do visitors in you home normally break into your house via smashing in windows?
>No name-calling or personal attacks.
Focus on the content, not the person. This includes terms that feel personal even when they're applied to content (e.g. “lazy”).

No bigotry.
We don’t tolerate any language likely to offend or alienate people based on race, gender, sexual orientation, or religion — and those are just a few examples. Use stated pronouns (when known). When in doubt, don't use language that might offend or alienate.

No harassment.
This includes, but isn’t limited to: bullying, intimidation, vulgar language, direct or indirect threats, sexually suggestive remarks, patterns
Where do you see any name-calling, personal attacks or harassment in what was posted? "I don't agree with that" doesn't translate to "that's name-calling, bigotry, harassment, or a personal attack."
facepalms
17:17
Stop the steal of chat messages
Let's just forget that MGetz happened and keep the talk neutral please :-)
@PeterT Even in jest, suggesting that we physically attack anybody is unacceptable, IMO.
1 message moved to Trash can
Can we still threaten the C++ Standard Committee? Its not technically one person?
@Mikhail We can hit them were it really hurts: threaten them with the ignominy of owning a language we refuse to use any longer because they fucked it up.
Of course, their response will be to laugh at us, and ask what we're going to use instead, but such is life.
rust 🦀
17:27
@Mikhail They'll be forgiving when you come crawling back in a couple of weeks.
17:44
I'm working on developing some cross-platform apps, but don't have and don't want to buy a Mac.
Anybody have suggestions on testing in the absence of actual hardware?
@Edward macincloud.com perhaps?
First impression wasn't positive though--response time was on the distinctly slow side (slow enough that I almost gave up before the page came up).
It's a possibility, but I was looking for something in more of the range of $0/month.
I've got github workflows set up for unit testing, and they seem to pass on Mac.
Maybe that will have to do for now.
@Edward don't develop for mac?
@Edward Money for nothing, chicks for free! :-) Honestly, I can sympathize, but I'm not sure that's available.
sorry but if you want to develop for mac the best way to actually support it is with a mac
17:52
"Don't develop for Mac" is quickly becoming my favorite strategy.
it's what I do, the apple tax is expensive
Also on my list is to figure out how to develop in C++ for WebAssembly.
doable but good luck
Yeah, I'm going to have to wait until I have a big block of time free, I think.
That's kinda where I am with a project I want to try ray tracing with
also hardware
18:00
I used a big chunk o' time™ last year to teach myself Blender. It seems to be one of those skills that atrophies fast without exercise.
18:49
It's also a massive time sink. Further a video explaining how your product works can easily cost thousands or dollary doos.
With Blender I think a couple spaced repetitions and you're golden. Since it relies so heavily on unusual hotkeys it sticks more in my mind
which is why it was especially annoying when they messed with hotkeys in the last major release
Yes, I'm trying for spaced repetition to avoid losing what I've learned.
Well for me the difficulty was using CAD models and getting materials reasonable.
Actually all of it was hard. Much easier to render in autodesk, catia, solid works.
I tend to use FreeCAD.
19:30
Oooooh Edward, it's been a long time :o
user7659542
Christ, what s all that mess in going on in the US Capitol?
user7659542
I can t stop wondering what makes people believe Trump is supposed to be the winner of the US elections. What unsaid evidence is there?
It's the overdramatic climax of a shitty reality show season is what that is.
user7659542
On the journal here in Europe I heard multiple times that Trump never had any valid proof. Yet people keep claiming he actually won
Memers are having the time of their life
user7659542
19:33
People got killed and Trump keeps claiming his victory. So there must be something.
user7659542
I m still waiting for him to show actual evidence
user7659542
Nobody has shown any evidence so far AFAIK
@traducerad Resisting the outcome of the election validates his movement and gives him political direction when he leaves office. Don't forget if some of these people could believe in god, its no large step believing in Trump. Trump supporters increasingly behave like a cult.
Religious leaders are increasingly feeling competition from them (see commentary about qanon from religious leaders)
The sad about the cult theory is that cults actually have an organizational structure to do a lot. Instead Trump's cult did nothing.
20:06
@traducerad The problem (and it's a problem for people in general) stems from confirmation bias. Most of us realize that there's a tendency to dismiss evidence that goes against our beliefs. What most of us don't realize is that it actually goes even further than that: in a whole lot of cases, when faced with evidence that goes against our beliefs, we end up managing to twist it in our minds to being confirmation of our beliefs, so we actually take it as reinforcement of our false beliefs.
^ That bias always existed. The "problem" is something else.
In the case of conspiracy theories, lack of evidence seems to frequently lead to the belief that the conspiracy is even bigger, better organized, and more all-powerful than the theorist previously believed--i.e., to them the conspiracy is obvious, so lack of evidence clearly means the conspiracy must be doing an even better job of covering up its activities than they previously realized.
I think angriness is a big factor. Loss of jobs and stuff due to changing economics etc. This causes people to be miserable and they need someone to blame it all on.
The conspiracies feed the belief that the democrats are what caused America to not be great anymore.
That's just my analysis though. I could be wrong.
Grasping at straws trying to be fair, I suppose I should add that (for one well-known example) in Chicago for about 70 years there really as widespread voting fraud. And for about 69 1/2 years of that, we heard exactly the same things we do now: there's no need to investigate, because there's no evidence of widespread voting fraud. Finally, in 1980 (or so--I'm going from memory) a minor city worker complained about not having gotten his kickback for committing voter fraud.
Who is saying there shouldn't be investigations? There have been a lot of recounts and court cases. All that did was shift goalposts "no we want another one, this time check the signatures too" and on and on
Except of course demands of investigations with 0 evidence or even indication of malfeasance
You can see it in Trumps phone call. The aim is not "get all the votes right", but always just "get us the votes we need"
20:17
That eventually led to an actual investigation, which in turn led to something like 35 people going to prison, and a conclusion that for years, voting fraud had been so widespread that in many elections the majority of votes cast were fraudulent. Now, one might conclude that of course based on that we've fixed the system so that kind of fraud can't happen any more. The reality is that nothing was done to fix the system at all--in fact, in many cases we've actually weakened it.
@PeterT Playing devil's advocate: this could be interpreted as "I know it's impossible to remove all the "fraudulent" votes. We just need enough to change the "invalid" outcome of the election."
@JerryCoffin That's very bad.
Transparency is fundamental for democracy.
They should fix that first.
It's kind of stupid that the US just doesn't have national IDs, vote day holiday, etc. Just gives their politicians the means to disenfanchise voters en-masse and claim it's to "secure the elections"
Then "the other side" has to play stupid games with opposing stronger voter ID laws, because the actual solution is not politically feasible
@StackedCrooked Yes, they should. And I agree with Peter that starting with issuing a voter ID card to every adult would be a good start toward that. But as things stand right now, it's hard to blame people (much) for believing there was fraud. Our current system is badly broken, so quite a lot of fraud could happen with little chance of detection.
I personally doubt it did, but I don't think our system really does much to prevent it.
20:33
Here in Belgium everyone receives a voting ticket by mail. On voting day you have to hand in the ticket (which has your name on it) and show your ID.
Also voting is mandatory, everyone has to vote.
Although there are politicians trying to make voting non-mandantory.
Not sure which is best.
^ Isn't this pretty much the same conversation as the one that got moved
What do you mean?
@StackedCrooked I'm ambivalent (at best) about mandatory voting, but issuing IDs to all adults seems obvious--for most practical purposes, everybody needs an ID anyway, so the cost of assuring everybody gets one doesn't really mean much.
Not everyone has an ID in the US?
20:36
Many Americans really don't like government IDs
I didn't know that.
@StackedCrooked Almost everybody does, yes. But you have to apply for one to get it--it doesn't happen automatically.
I can't even imagine what they would do if they suddenly had a "Notification Duty" to report to a city when they move there. They'd flip their shit
You have to have an ID or drivers license
one or the other
What's "Notification Duty"?
You have to report to the city/county you live in of your current residence
"compulsory registration" is some translation I've seen
as in "the government always has your current address"
20:43
We have to do that. Well kinda. You have to change addresses at the post office to receive legal notices, and to the tax collection if you own the property.
@StackedCrooked I think "many" is a bit of an exaggeration. At least as a percentage, I think the number is fairly small. Part of this also comes back to things like immigration law too though. According to some, undocumented residents obviously have the right to vote. According to others, they obviously do not. So there's quite a bit of friction over who exactly would actually receive such a voter ID.
You can search anyone's name in the US and get their address
right, but it's always coupled to something else, like you said for owning property, or for tax purposes, but not by default
I see
@CupOfJava Most people's. Somebody who honestly wants to keep you from knowing their address can do so. Others (e.g., homeless people) don't have actual addresses of their own in many cases, so if you look up an address for them, it may well be a shelter where they stop by to pick up mail, but don't actually live.
20:46
Well you can also hide your address in an entity (eg an LLC)
@CupOfJava Like I said, somebody who wants to hide it can. There are quite a few ways, but most of them are difficult enough that almost nobody bothers.
@JerryCoffin What part of the US are you from? If you don't mind me asking.
@CupOfJava Originally from South Dakota. Spent ~4 years in Washington when I was in the Air Force. Lived in Colorado from 1991 until around 2015. Now in San Diego California.
Interesting, mainly middle to the west coast
On an unrelated note, is there some a prior way to estimate the effectiveness of a seed to hash_combine? I wanted something cute like const size_t magic_number = 0xDECAFBAD; but not sure if its bad for performance :-(
21:01
@Mikhail I suppose you could run a simulation across a lot of data that's as similar as possible to what you care about hashing, but I don't know of much else. In particular, I'm not sure exactly how much of hash_combine they consider "fixed". If they picked a new algorithm and started to combine values differently, would they consider that a breaking change or not? The documentation only seems to cover the interface, not the implementation, so...
@Mikhail If the hash algorithm is good then the seed shouldn't matter, right?
Everybody uses the same hash algorithm stackoverflow.com/questions/35985960/…
(rare cases you might use knuths thing)
Actually in our product at work I use the Intel CRC32 instruction for performance reasons.
clever
21:19
@StackedCrooked I look forward to the day that I can say: "I use SHA-256 for performance reasons." :-)
22:09
Be careful what you ask for ;)
Lol, I don't even know what I mean by saying that.
22:20
@StackedCrooked Well, the law of unintended consequences is still out there, so when you get what you ask for, it may not turn out quite as well as you'd thought it would.
> I'm in love with this girl, I want her! 1 year later: FUCK
I suppose that's a common example.
Or, more precisely, the most common example :D
I use AES for performance reasons. Also I have UB and I've run out of tools to analyse it.
@CaptainGiraffe Encrypt the UB heavily enough, and nobody will be able to detect it!
@JerryCoffin I will =9 The stuff crashes on demand
I have f(value x) and auto x; f(x). x is different in f.
22:34
@CaptainGiraffe Then you're not encrypting it heavily enough yet. :-) "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" -> "any technology that can be distinguished from magic is insufficiently advanced."
@CaptainGiraffe Without an initializer, I can't even compile auto x; :-)
@JerryCoffin My function will never respond 42 in any sane runtime
@JerryCoffin I can give you a complete initializer
@JerryCoffin {}
@CaptainGiraffe So have it reread all five volumes of the HGTTG trilogy? Oh wait, I see the problem. "sane". You obviously need the infinite improbability runtime.
@JerryCoffin Where the hell is Marvin when you need him.
@CaptainGiraffe Pretty sure you don't need him. You seem depressed enough already.
@JerryCoffin =) Thanks for the concern, but I'm really happy the way my students conducted themselves during the corona exam today.
@JerryCoffin Also bleep, why did you leave me here for five million years?
22:53
@CaptainGiraffe I'm a deeply cruel person.
23:08
But hey, at least I left you here for five million years. The last robot that pissed me off, I threw into a star. The gravity there was so high its perception of time was slowed to the point that I calculate he experienced melting down for about 3.5 million years (even though to the outside world, it took less than a second).
:51319148 Some day if I'm bored, I should do a search to see how many times I've posted a message containing (for example) ls -al.
23:25
@Mikhail Sorry, I have any and all facebook related urls firewalled.
sorry that one too
23:53
@CaptainGiraffe "COVID Tests: The Easiest Tests On Campus. #Ivegotyoucovered"

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