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00:00
@RadekSlupik, so, you keep the keys for each room for a long time so that users can just come back and read old records?
With keep I mean, keep them the same, not that you store them at the server
@Johan they must be able to read old records.
AES or similar is the only option.
And they want to have them from the server... With OTR for example with skype or google chat the messages are in clear text at the client side
but for example I have google chat records (from google) which are encrypted and I can not read them...
All messages will be stored on the server for eternity.
Encrypted messages stay encrypted; the server cannot decrypt them since it doesn't have the passwords.
00:02
Do all users have the same keys or do they share public keys with the others in the same room?
Ell
Ell
wait whats about salts?
random salts don't work do they, so you would need a secret salting method?
@Johan encrypted rooms have passwords and users enter them before joining. All encryption and decryption is done client-side.
Ell
Ell
so really, the server barely needs distinguish between password protected and open rooms?
Ok, ok. So all users have access to all messages in that room. And all messages in a room is encrypted the same way.
@Ell yes. The only missing feature for encrypted rooms is searching the transcript.
@Johan exactly.
Ell
Ell
00:06
the server could search the encrypted transcript couldn't it?
not that that is helpful
@Ell no. It cannot decrypt the messages, so it cannot search through them.
Pagination does work, though.
Ell
Ell
how about editing? is that server side?
If a room’s password changes, the transcript can be dropped.
@Ell editing is not possible.
Sent is sent.
Ell
Ell
in a password room, or in general?
In general.
Ell
Ell
00:08
I thought the idea was to have a protocol matching that of SO?
Not exactly.
There are common features, though.
Ell
Ell
hmm. I guess I'll have to do that then :L
Also file sharing. I am not sure how I'll do that, though. Probably BitTorrent. :P
Also oneboxing, but that is client-side.
Greetings earthlings.
Ell
Ell
yeah
00:10
Hi Jim Norton.
How's it going Radek?
Good.
And with you?
Excellent!
Ell
Ell
@Chimera greetings
It's a good Saturday so far. :-)
@Ell Hello friend.
Ell
Ell
00:10
@RadekSlupik wait a minute, you are daknok?
@Ell yes?
Ell
Ell
that confused me for a while
daknok.github.com daknøk, to be exact.
My website is the beautifulestest.
Tomorrow I'll write a blog post about how awesome bacon is.
2
But that would be redundant. :-) We already know.
Bacon is good. <— that o is also redundant. Bacon is God.
I only need a good design for my bacon post.
Every post on my blog has a different web design, while preserving the overall layout.
And one about ØMQ soon.
user457812
00:23
I keep meaning to edit one of my blog posts into shape so I can post it, but it's a case where I just don't care about actually sharing the writing after I've done it.
Ell
Ell
OMQ?
For post about ØMQ I'll choose bright red text, like on ØMQ’s website.
user457812
zeromq.org ← ØMQ. It's a handy, handy thing.
@Ell ØMQ is TCP [FIXED].
Postduif uses ØMQ.
Ell
Ell
tcp fixed?
user457812
00:24
I don't use it, but I would if I had a use for it.
@Ell If you ever had to use TCP, ØMQ is a heaven. They sit on the same layer in the OSI model.
user457812
IT IS BURRITO TIME.
Ell
Ell
well I just used IO. TCP was an irrelevant detail
ØMQ is very abstract. You pass messages rather than raw data. ØMQ handles async I/O for you, as well as queuing and cross-platform stuff.
Of course, both ends need to use ØMQ or it won't work.
Ell
Ell
Aw man thats awesome
00:27
Just like you cannot mix TCP with UDP.
Ell
Ell
I always ended up using a message type thing
[message-length, message-data]
ØMQ allows for strict request-reply (like HTTP), publisher-subscriber (one way) and workers (evenly spread messages across clients, useful for distributed computing).
Postduif uses REQ-REP and PUB-SUB, on two different sockets.
LOL
> Now this looks too simple to be realistic, but a ØMQ socket is what you get when you take a normal TCP socket, inject it with a mix of radioactive isotopes stolen from a secret Soviet atomic research project, bombard it with 1950-era cosmic rays, and put it into the hands of a drug-addled comic book author with a badly-disguised fetish for bulging muscles clad in spandex. Yes, ØMQ sockets are the world-saving superheroes of the networking world.
Ell
Ell
I will check it out when I'm back
anyway its late, so I best be going
nighty night :)
radek bro
I came to something that i cant understand from online refrences
the "new" keyword
what does it do
00:43
allocate and instantiates a new object...
like making a new variable?
something like that
Don't use new. Use make_unique.
Also I am not your bro.
@RadekSlupik The confusion is understandable...
user457812
Booyah, burritooooos
00:52
Robots!
I was just reading this: haldean.org/docstore/?vim-problems. It's so true :(
This would be fun:
@R.MartinhoFernandes Too true. It's the main reason I don't really like vimperator/mutterator. I can hardly bare ViEmu (honestly, it is really good) and VisVim is missing some more elementary stuff (but has surprising other bits).
01:01
Fun::Fun()
{
a = new fun();
}
@Chimera what's fun? -- undefined identifier
user457812
I decided not to eat a third burrito. Instead, I shall begin drinking moose drool.
Well assuming a is a member of the class. Wouldn't that cause a recursive eating up of memory..
Moose Drool!! My favorite!
@Chimera Huh? No. If it were the name of the same class maybe...
Lol!
user457812
01:03
I'm more of a Trout Slayer guy, but really anything by Big Sky is good.
C++ is case sensitive.
Yeah I just saw that..
Fun::Fun()
{
a = new Fun();
}
Chimera missed it; he apparently thought I was wondering about 'a', despite my misspelling a as fun
:)
@R.MartinhoFernandes Say, have I ever mentioned to you my abuse of ...... for SFINAE purposes?
01:05
Oh, there was a poor sod reading C++ without Fear here. That one is particularly bad. It's the one that "covers" C++11. It uses strtok to exemplify nullptr.
typo just ruined my Fun!
When providing a 'fallback' for SFINAE.
@LucDanton Oh. That's... neat. And ugly. But neat.
@Chimera That's problematic because it's not terminating, regardless of memory. Even if new were guaranteed to always succeed, control flow would never proceed beyond that new Fun();.
@R.MartinhoFernandes In case you're wondering the Ignored pack is for better diagnostic/type-safety. The trick works as-is for variadic templates, the varargs are never used (instead the pack gets all the parameters).
@LucDanton It's just an idea of a bad use of new.
01:08
@Chimera My point is precisely that new is not the problem. Fun::Fun() { Fun f; } exhibits the same issue.
The recursive call to the constructor is the problem.
That's a good point... it is the recursive nature of the constructor that is the problem.
Indeedy. If you are curious about when new really is the problem, a good rule-of-thumb is that every new expression is a problem.
What's up guys?
nm just watching netflix and working :)
user457812
Beer is what's up
01:10
0
Q: How to redefine / override the behavior and the life cycle of a smart pointer?

user827992I always read about the possibility of rewriting a new definition for the smart pointers behavior, but still today i can't find a real example. Now i want to propose this problem and see if i can get a solution: smart pointers are using reference counting or reference linking to manage their li...

Shotgun usage of smart pointers makes me sad :(
I've been drinking beer all night, I just got home from the pubs
I remember back when C++ was relatively new, "new" was used all the time. I suppose STL reduced the need for new? Remember, I don't know much C++ yet.
To be honest, I think what reduced the need for new was that programmers stopped being stupid.
01:12
@Chimera ? I think 'new' was popularized later/simultaneously in Java, C# and other garbage collected languages
I can think well, if you need more objects, instead of new you could just have a vector of them...
Or just ask for one: Foo f;.
... 'more objects'
Is there a legitimate case in which using new is needed or acceptable?
If you want dynamic allocation, the standard library doesn't fit your needs (well) and you know what you're doing
01:17
@Chimera polymorphism
@mfontanini Wrong
@Sehe why?
I'd go as far as saying that new is for library writers.
Perhaps you meant containers of polymorphic types. In which pointers (... or in fact references with reference_wrapper) would be typical, but not required (type erasure)
I'd like to think I know how to handle dynamic memory allocation as I've been writing C code for a long time, but that doesn't mean if given a new tool that one should revert to old unsafe practices if the new tool makes it unneeded.
01:19
Sometimes you need to dynamically allocate a single object when returning from a function and (runtime) polymorphism is involved.
well, add make_unique :)
@Sehe yes, I meant something like vector<unique_ptr<some_type>> or when you need to allocate some object of a polymorphic type and you only know the concrete type at runtime
yeah well, make_unique is not standard :P
Sometimes that need is moved to a pimpl-style wrapper but the idea is the same.
well, vector will call new on behalf of you (with default std::allocator<> implementation)
so my assertion that STL reduced the need for new is correct... ?
01:23
it's not incorrect :) Lots of other things contribute. I'd like to s/STL/standard library/
@mfontanini If you don't write yours, you're doing it wrong :P
Just because it's not standard doesn't need you should not use it.
yeah well, you'd still be using new if you wrote make_unique :P
5 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
I'd go as far as saying that new is for library writers.
oooooookay, fair enough
As mentioned before though std::vector<T> isn't magic either.
01:24
I never said you should not use new.
did I make a mistake buying a 2TB Hitachi HDD?
how so? If you don't need it: YES. If it is broken: YES. If you needed 4TB: Possibly
I mean is Hitachi a good brand?
It is wellknown, I'd assume it is ok
It was cheap, on sale, so I bought it. I would normally buy a WD.
01:27
So, in 2 years, tell us whether you made a mistake :)
Ah, an impulsive buyer, heh?
Or visit hardwarereview, tweakers, tomshardware :)
@R.MartinhoFernandes At times, but I've gotten much better since I've been married. :-)
Who the heck names their kid Thomas Shardware?
Bobby Tables was taken
01:29
Setting breakpoints
Debugger name and version: GNU gdb (Ubuntu/Linaro 7.4-2012.04-0ubuntu2) 7.4-2012.04
Error in re-setting breakpoint 2: Function "/media/sf_develop/progrock/libraries/gui/usage examples/editor/source/level 1 - general/main.cpp:25" not defined.
Error in re-setting breakpoint 3: Function "/media/sf_develop/progrock/libraries/gui/usage examples/editor/source/level 1 - general/main.cpp:17" not defined.
Error in re-setting breakpoint 4: Function "/media/sf_develop/progrock/libraries/gui/source/level 2 - platform/nix/progrock/gui/MainWindow.virtual.cpp.h:61" not defined.
^ I love how GDB claims to be unable to set any breakpoints, then ends up stopping at "run to cursor" exactly on such a breakpoint.
Why are you running a Ubuntu VM :(
Well spater all. Time for the wife and I to leave go out.
@ManofOneWay Could be Mint or similar
@ManofOneWay What's wrong with that?
It was more the fact that it was a VM that made me sad
01:31
how do you see that?
@Cheersandhth.-Alf It usually complains when breakpoint definitions refer to locations that haven't yet been loaded (unloaded modules / missing debug info)
/media/..
oh
how does one load them?
So once definitions are resolved, they 'take'
@Cheersandhth.-Alf They get loaded on demand or at program initialization.
01:33
The runtime linker, binary loader and potentially dynamic loader are involved
i mean with "run to cursor" it has to a breakpoint or something very like it to stop there
i would guess an "int 3" instruction
@Cheersandhth.-Alf Depends. Usually, gdb will just defer the breakpoints and set them at first opportunity. It will still warn about it
@R.MartinhoFernandes Isn't it like 4:30am at your place?
@ManofOneWay 2:30.
well it doesn't stop at the breakpoints if i let it run freely
01:34
@Cheersandhth.-Alf That's a software breakpoint. There are hardware breakpoints too on i386+ arch
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh of course
@sehe At your place it's 4:30~?
3:30, I'd guess.
3:36
Oh, we're in the same time zone then
What are you guys doing up so late?
01:37
Stuff.
Getting my code to compile.
41 mins ago, by sehe
Watching http://vimeo.com/44792649
Can't go to bed without that.
What about that blog post?
:S
I need to start scheduling my time better.
@sehe Java code?
01:39
No, not that. I need to start following the schedule I plan.
@ManofOneWay Huh. A video
@sehe A video consisting of cool Java code?
No? Why. You can look at it, I guess
I think I finally managed to write some decent infrastructure to make writing all those ranges in ogonek less painful.
I shall try it tomorrow. Now I'm going to bed.
@sehe It said "Let's move the Java world" in the beginning. So I just assumed it was Java code
01:42
Well, the title is "Cool Code". So, that settles it
@ManofOneWay If it makes you feel better, I have an instance of vim open with it, because I planned to write some more of it, but ended up fighting GCC until now instead.
In Ubunty, with Unity GUI (I think it's called Unity), when I press Alt Tab I don't get switching between windows but the Alt key activates the common menu line at top of screen. How do I get switching between windows?
I think Alt Tab works in the other Ubuntu installation.
Both are in Virtual Box VMs
Alt-tab does work out of the box.
I checked the usability settings, no such there :-(
Also that alt thingy.
01:56
@LucDanton What are you up to?
02:11
2
A: Alt-Tab does not switch

Gordon WilliamsI have Ubuntu 12.04 with gnome-classic (without effects, so no Compiz) and the above doesn't work. The fix, from here is actually easier than you'd expect: Go to 'Applications','System Tools','System Settings' Click 'Keyboard' Click the 'Shortcuts Tab' Click 'Navigation' on the left In the ...

worked
after futilely installing compiz config
02:45
Does anybody know if the initializer list constructor of std::map works? I feel like I'm probably doing it wrong. With g++ or clang++, that is.
never mind, stupid wrong compiler version.
03:36
right, i forgot to remove the #if 0 around the event loop.
 
3 hours later…
06:50
@Cheersandhth.-Alf Minor detail :)
@Cheersandhth.-Alf It's a futility.
07:15
does any one here work with libtorrent ?
07:26
Hey I wanted to ask a slightly general question.
I have a technical interview for a web developer position. It's for Perl, but, the requirement says that they're open to people who don't know perl and are willing to learn.
I'm primarily a C# developer, with some cross functional expertise. (And work experience)
So what will this technical interview be like if they aren't gonna test my perl skills?
08:01
dunno. but possibly all things perl? like regular expressions, and silly one-character standard variable names, and stuff.
hehe. But I don't know perl at all (the requirement says you just need programming experience, if you don't know perl they provide training)
08:37
@gideon, if you don't know it now there's not much to do about that. But you should be given a chance to explain what your skills are.
perhaps you can back it up with examples or references...
@JohanLundberg hm. I see. I was short-listed for this technical interview after they screened me on the phone and went through my resume with me.
@JohanLundberg but this is the first time I'm going to an employer that is language/technology agnostic
@gideon, do you have an example of learning something new well and fast? then use that.
ah. That I have :)
08:57
hey, in this example:
struct ex {
int bla;
} var1;
isnt var1 simply a variable of the type struct ex?
because i sometimes see ppl who would use var1 as type
@Papergay yep...as long as there's not a typedef you're not pasting, that's a variable, not a type
@cHao then you should not be able to do stuff like:

var1 myvariable;

Isnt that right?
if you said typedef struct ex { int bla; } var1;, then var1 would be a type (iirc). but as it stands, that's just a variable of type ex
oh
I wonder why i always overlook that typedef part D:
does typedef struct ex { int bla; } var1, *var2; create 2 types, one as pointer the other one static?
09:13
it actually creates one type and two aliases...ex is a type, var1 is basically an alias for ex, and var2 is an alias for ex*
i thought ex* would be a different type :o ?
anyway, thx for answering v.v
nope...it's exactly the same as ex*
err
well i meant, it declares one struct and then allows 2 types to refer to that struct
09:15
effectively, yeah. three, actually -- you can still use ex as well
oh hmm
And, do you know the difference between an entity of type X and value of type X? I assume that latter is a concrete value and the other one an instance?
i've always used both to mean the same thing -- at least as long as the type has value semantics, they always meant the same to me
and what do hey mean to you xD?
for value types, it refers to the object in both cases
for types with identity, "value of type X" doesn't really make sense
i guess you could say "entity" is more useful for types that don't represent values
lol Im a bit confused right now, maybe because english is not my native language xD
I had trouble understanding the meaning of entity in this context/in c++. if you would not mind, would you clarify that for me?
is it something like a keyword?
09:32
well...for some types you have what's called "value semantics". that basically means it represents a value, and its identity (address, name, whatever) is not important. it can be copied without stuff breaking, and it usually has comparison operators and such
objects that can't be treated like that...say, because they represent a window or input stream or something...those aren't value types. i mightuse the word "entity" to represent them
it's not a keyword or anything
okay, thank you very much. i think i understand it now :D
09:48
Hey guys check that out twitter.com/ShaneParten
:D
Oh gods video tutorials.
mawning
@cHao Everyone else just says "Pointer".
10:03
@DeadMG yeah...i don't hear the word "entity" used much. :P
10:16
I am going to plonk that moron who asks to me about pointers all the time and calls me “bro”.
which one is that?
Never apologized, too, sis?
PLONK
so if I called you "bro", you'd plonk me too?
@RadekSlupik *thing = sure; bro.
10:17
:P
In other news, I somehow recieved an badge yesterday... Oh well, let me hide it on the far end of my profile page
@Tony only if you annoy me with new and pointer arithmetic too.
10:19
I don't need pointer arithmetic or new, so I won't bother you
this room is tagged
how cool is that?
I don't need make_unique and the likes either. I have Python and Haskell.
but we lost fun!
I don't need programming, I have bacon!
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Notepad, multiplayer mode. [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq] [fun] [nsfw]
NSFW can't possibly be fun too
LOL
10:20
You cannot write a programming?
Bro
LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL‌​LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
This room is NSFB. Not Safe For Brain.
Not Safe For Bacon
NSFYM - Not Safe For Yo Momma
bacon is like singleton
10:21
Bacon is indeed not safe here.
technically, it could be good, somewhere, sometime, but in reality, no such incidences have been observed
oh god why
meh another boring day
class Bacon : private Singleton<Bacon>, public Food, public AwesomeTraits<42> {}
Bacon is not a Singleton, but an Awesometon
Bacon is a baconton.
10:24
it's a giant pile of suck
suck squeeze bang blow
LOL
class Baconology {}; class daknøk : public Baconology {}; class Tony : public Baconology {}; class PersonWithoutTaste {}; class DeadMG : public PersonWithoutTaste {};
3
At school I'll write in Java an abstract singleton factory that is itself a singleton, just to troll the teacher.
What effect has namespace { // some code} w/o providing a name?
Singleton factories are more useless than singletons.
@Nils name mangling. You cannot access it outside of the TU, AFAIK.
thx :)
10:31
class MySingletonFactory {
public:
    virtual MySingleton* createSingletonInstance() throw(InstanceAlreadyExists) = 0;
};
// how I imagine Java people write C++.
GlassFish’ logs once said “destroying singletons”. >_>
Uhh there really is no way around Java school it seems..
There is.
Not going to school.
Java is a cancer that attaches itself to moronic schools and stupid teachers who never really programmed.
I can imagine people can still not write a recursive function in year three.
that is actually the case :(
They should only allow students who have been programming for at least five years, and you must show off your work.
Maybe you should try something different? Mech engineering, electrical engineering, Physics instead of pure comp sci?
10:35
I want to do something different: working.
Nah get a degree first, after that you can work until you die :)
I have started working this year for the first time in my life, and it has been awesome. :P
I do the same what I would do at home: programming; but I get money for it.
cool :)
Full-time job, 40 h/week.
Not a single CV was given.
What are you working on on your job?
10:37
Web apps, primarily.
ok
yeah web is nice to make some money :)
Even though large parts are in PHP, it's still fun.
no Rails?
Ewwww Rails.
We are slowly switching to Python, though.
But not all clients' hosts host Python apps. :<
Django is nice I hard, but never used it.
10:39
Ewwwwwww Django.
Fuck giant frameworks that enforce me how to organize my code.
Flask FTW
Oh no, how dare they endorse consistency.
I used Django. Couldn't stand it, just like Rails. Used Flask, felt in love.
If you are new here, read the code of conduct now. Thank you.
10:41
consistency is only good if it's consistently good
else it's just consistently bad
@RadekSlupik In the expression *p++ it is actually unspecified when exactly the increment happens. All you can be sure of is that it will be visible at the next sequence point. All that matters is that the dereference happens on the "old" value of p.
@RadekSlupik We teach recursive functions in the first semester :)
@cHao I think Kevlin Henney calls those "entity types" as well.
Hey, does anyone know whether if while I am waiting with pthread_cond_wait() for a signal to be emitted, a segmentation fault error in a different thread can crash the entire application AND make the debugger believe that the segfault happened inside pthread_cond_wait() ?
10:57
@Fred cool.
We’ll learn how to use mysql_real_escape_string, from what I have seen from the books.
People who don't use proper variable binding with SQL must be shot and die as painfully as possible.

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