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12:02 AM
عفية
Sorry by mistake
 
I can role out binaries for the browser. That puts me at the cutting edge, I shouldn't complain.
 
12:21 AM
@Rick Hmm...I suppose it depends on your definition of reasonable, and probably on how familiar somebody was with LLVM and writing a lowering module for it. The good point is that WASM looks like a fairly conventional instruction set. The work I was involved with was for a decidedly unconventional architecture, that imposed a lot of difficulties. A more conventional target would undoubtedly be faster and easier, but I'm not sure how much faster and easier.
 
12:33 AM
On the other hand, while WASM is fairly conventional in some ways, it's decidedly averse to LLVM IR in at least one: WASM defines a stack machine instead of a register-based machine. LLVM's IR is really designed for register-based machines, and all their back-end infrastructure is oriented (heavily) toward register-based machines.
:46722059 Come on now. Lets' try to keep it civil, and avoid language that might result in flags.
 
@JerryCoffin sorry couldn't resist
 
@Rick Neither could I! :-)
 
@JerryCoffin are C++ compilers define for register-based machines or is that configurable?
sorry, I'm out of my element on this. Why is there this distinction?
I am actually a little confused about a register-based machine with respect to a stack-based machine?
 
12:51 AM
@Rick C++ itself doesn't care. LLVM, however, is pretty heavily oriented toward registers. LLVM has a target-independent code generator that lets you specify characteristics of your target, and generates code based on that. But one of the most important parts of the description of the target is about its registers--how many registers it has, how large they are, what order to allocate them in, their names, and so on.
Since none of that applies, I guess you'd have to walk its DAG to generate instructions on your own (but I've never done anything similar, so I'm really quite uncertain).
 
Oh because the wasm is really operating within a virtual machine
 
To put it more simply, I can kind generically tell LLVM that it's supposed to generate code for a machine with, say, 64 registers of 64 bits apiece named (say) R0 through R63, with normal alignment requirements, and such. It also needs to know names of instructions to do things like add, subtract, and so on. that's enough for it to take something like A = B + C and generate code like load R0, B; Load R1, C; Add R0, R1, R2; Store R2, A.
If, however, I gave it register descriptions for X86-64, that might be something like: mov eax, B; mov edx, C; add edx; mov A, eax`. But, with no registers at all, you can't tell it how many registers are available, and things probably go south from there pretty quickly.
@Rick That does mean that even though it's running on an x86 (which has registers), WASM can't access/use the registers directly, and WASM code has to do stack things instead of register things, even though the underlying hardware has registers.
 
I was just about to say that it provides a degree of separation, but you are right it's not meaningful
 
1:10 AM
llvm is pretty awesome in this regard.
From my understanding of llvm, the moment you can build some valid llvm "machine code". You can then target any other platform that has a working backend.
 
so if wasm was not designed for security, but instead as a domain-specific standard, wouldn't a C++ standard be a better starting off point.
 
C++ a starting point to what?
 
I didn't mean c++ I meant standard assembly
 
@Rick that's pretty much what WASM is/defines.webassembly.github.io/spec/core/index.html
 
1:42 AM
Somewhere out there, is an parallel universe where JVM won.
 
Well the JVM wouldn't be such a bad thing if it wasn't owned by Oracle.
 
Also NaCL
 
So V8 is the new JVM and CSA is the new java.
 
Its possible to make a better analogy
 
I don't think it is.
 
1:49 AM
I'd say the new JVM is more likely to be python. I've seen a lot of post in the recent year claiming that MicroPython will replace C on microcontrollers
 
sounds like a marketing gimmick
 
The analog is wrong for the code stub assembler
 
what should the analogy be
 
2:13 AM
js is the new Java
 
js is not compiled.
 
js is compiled
 
it's JIT compiled it's not the same thing
 
You're missing the bigger picture, and this trail of thought is liable to give me cancer.
 
@Mikhail btw, ever considered making GUI in c++ using JS/Html?
I believe chrome has some library to help embedding the renderer easily
 
2:24 AM
You mean Electron :-)
 
I already suggested it,
 
Or if you can, simply expose an http library
 
My application is actually compute intensive, but I think there are ways to deal with this in Electron/Vue. Fundamentally, I don't know how what I'm doing is supposed to be done. The best I can tell no device manufacturer does the Qt work in house.
 
Yes, or if you don't need a UI you can always simply implement a some kind of REST api then use the API with any frontend later
 
Basically, I need to stream 40 megabyte images at video rate.
 
2:31 AM
it's video?
 
really 40megabyte what monitor supports that frame rate and resolution
 
well 40Mb uncompressed isn't that big
if its a raw bitmap that's not so big of a file
 
Its 40 megabytes floating point
 
I get the feeling it's an architecture issue and not a performance one.
 
Whats the underlying issue?
 
2:37 AM
By "video rate" you mean 60Hz?
 
yes
 
So you want to stream 40MB 60 times per sec?
 
I mean I can already do that, I need to analyze etc. But I already made the back end, and it works. Whats killing me is the front end. There is just so much code.
 
I'm failing to see the difficulty, usually GUI are event driven so they don't usually update themselves
to the exceptions of video/sound stream
but even that can be cheated because you really don't need 60Fps all the time
 
That depends on the applications
and it's purpose
 
2:42 AM
You're still working on "incubators"?
 
Wtf are you two talking about. @the french Canadian, the difficulty is fucking writing all the fucking code, including user interaction, the buttons to do different image filters, the OGL to support zooming and interacting, volumetric rendering, etc. And yes, you need to avoid deep copies, and guess what? You also need to store more images than you have ram for.
Yeah, I'm still doing a little embryo work. I came up with a cute way to do a Live/Dead (TM) screen, its going into the paper this massive re-write is for.
 
He as invested considerable effort on qt and he already knew about electron. He shouldn't change course.
@Rob you changed your profile pic
 
@Mikhail well I'm not aware of everything you've done so far. I've been in a similar yet much simpler situation. But I once worked on a project, resizing bitmaps in JS by porting some native code in c++ to js. Memory limit sucks.
 
did your wife kick you out of the house :-)
 
2:52 AM
Did you fucking write a fucking CAD program in fucking JS? BTW, if you actually did I'd like to know how it works :-)
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix you should show some code with a simple example
 
I'd love to make a CAD if I had the time
you mean CAD with constraint transforms?
 
How about if you had no time?
As with everything I've done, I keep hitting the limit that I can't do everything myself, or that I don't have enough resources (employees, etc).
 
That certainly look like something quite complicated. You're streaming high resolution images that can be analyzed in realtime ?
 
Yes
But the fucking PhD level analysis is easy, building the GUI is too time consuming. I also built the equipment, am listed as co-inventor on the patents, etc.
I'm also so fucking tired, but I need to be ready when the idiots/non-technical people that pay me come back on Monday
 
3:07 AM
You've been tired for at least a year or two already
 
Years, actually. This startup is probably going to implode if we don't get the next SBIR II. On the positive side they might finally award me my PhD.
I also have a bunch of messed up stories related to social interaction, mostly with women. At least I'm still a high energy person!
 
omg
 
You can put C++ as a language on OkCupid
 
you are a tornado
 
The youtube link isn't my code, our instruments do something similar, but the GUI parts need to resemble what biologists are used to using
 
3:12 AM
oh biologists
 
I've also been having trouble finding a CRO to outsource some of my wet lab work. For example, I could probably give $5k for a stable transfection of a certain plasmid, as were running out of time. But I can't really find anybody interested.
I'm kinda starting to get sloppy doing wet lab work, for example, yesterday after coding for 8 hours, I accidental got some contamination on some fixed samples. Had to refix them. It was a novice mistake, somewhat embarrassed by it.
 
Ever thought about outsourcing marketing for your work?
 
So, the company I worked for lost our marketing guy. He left last week. Problem is that you need engineers doing sales. But I doubt there is any market, we're doing most of this stuff for amusement.
Anyways, now that I fixed the build times on my stuff by using opaque pointers for UI elements I now I have less of excuse for chatting on here.
 
Yeah... Enjoy it while it last. I've been working on things that are less than funny to do for a couple of years already.
 
also update your bio
 
3:23 AM
yeah, might do that soon.
 
eh, I'd be happier if I was reading my own code. Most of my days nowadays are debugging why everything breaks when nobody understand what's going on. I'm the last barrier to fix things.
 
I'm thinking if we code fast enough, we can outlive those who have wronged us by exploiting the well known tendency for time to slow down in the direction of motion (time dilation).
 
3:48 AM
Only if you are in the right direction.
 
I'm amazed how things badly written can be so popular sometimes. The platform I work on is pretty much a cluster fuck most of the time but it's only viable to use it because it has a big community and is quite flexible to work on
I'm mostly amazed how the technical support of the enterprise edition of the software tell us this or that would be difficult to implement but I can fix the bug in a few hours top. I've been convinced for years that their dev are full of shit
 
This can be logically proved: you can have maximum two out of the three things: speed, quality and low price. So if you customer want it fast and want it cheap, then it must be of low quality.
 
For us is when they want it fast and people barely test that it works. Then fun time fixing a production server when someone wanted something released asap
instead of making deployment schedule and have everything under control
 
Why is the aritechture screwed up?
 
I wonder with people who have coded for more than 5 years, if there is ever anyone who has never written any bugs.
 
4:02 AM
@Mikhail the first few version of the platform were developped by outsourced firms in India
6 or 7 version later the foundation on which it was built is slowly getting fixed but people still add bad design of their own. Imagine how bad it must be if updating a few record takes around 1s per record and that's not so bad
 
Also, the usual - future feature requests on a system not built for them.
^ pretty much like this.
 
4:28 AM
you're being modest
 
 
1 hour later…
5:51 AM
Okay what did the sourcing company do wrong?
For example Qt is fucked because there are 3 different ways to lay out a widget, and for backwards compatibility reasons they opted to have overloaded functions. Among other things. Also none of the layout methods are functional compared to vue, and the default widgets insufficient.
 
 
2 hours later…
8:09 AM
@Mikhail do you mind!?
 
 
5 hours later…
1:27 PM
well msvcs stdlib implementation fucked me good on this one
auto end = map.end()
for(auto iter = map.begin();iter != end;)
iter = map.erase(iter);

This apparently invalidates the end iterator with std::map despite what the standard says
oh nvm I'm the stupid one, it was a vector of pairs, not a map. Seems like I used too much auto on that one
 
 
3 hours later…
4:05 PM
@Mikhail Up until version 8 all password were saved in cleartext by default. Up until version 11, password were saved along the session object for cookies. Making it possible to retrieve all passwords regardless of them being encrypted in the db.
But performance wise, they rolled their own version of ORM which is completely inneficient. You'd see somewhere in their code

for obj in objs:
lines = obj.search(lines)
But these case forces to do at least n searches behind the scene when you can make batch searches directly from objs and group the lines later for example.
There's a cool thing called a computed field, you give it some dependencies and when the dependencies are modified, the field get recomputed. But if the field is stored in database, and you have to recompute more than a few field at boot time (fresh computation) it will take forever because they don't build a dependency graph
so if you have a somewhat complex dependencies, and you're not lucky, it may recompute multiple time the same field making it run forever
In general it's a pretty cool piece of software but when you look closer, we could go on forever how bad everything got glued together. It's a wonder it works
 
4:33 PM
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix what do you for wordpress 😉
@PeterT auto wasn't the problem, bad variable names were...
 
well it wasn't actually called "map", I simplified the context and names for demonstration purposes
 
5:16 PM
whoa... I think I accidentally ddosed a server with ssh
at least, it did ddos my own computer
by creating recursively infinite amount of ssh connection to the same server through the same server
 
 
2 hours later…
7:06 PM
I have this strange case where calloc zeroes out another variable’s memory. I created a hashmap data structure where I put some data. It works fine when I “get” that data immediately, but if put something in the map, make a call to calloc and then try to get the data from the map, “0x0” is returned. Commenting out the calloc makes it start working as it should. I have no clue why calloc is overwriting memory and how I can prevent it
Anyone seen this before?
 
 
 
4 hours later…
10:51 PM
0
Q: Why does this simple program result in "puppies puppies puppies" to the console?

OmnifariousThis weird thing happened, and I managed to condense it down to just this small program: int main() { int a[20]; a[21] = 5; return 0; } this program results in puppies puppies puppies continuously scrolling by on the terminal until I hit control-C. What's going on?! Edit: What is ...

nice /cc @milleniumbug @Mysticial
 
lol, pure trolling
 
im curious how that works though
has to be compiler instrumented no?
 
Looks like he modified Clang to do it.
 
oh that comment wasnt there when i first saw the question
 
11:23 PM
I'm bored, somebody say something interesting
 
11:36 PM
something interesting
3
 

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