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1:58 AM
@EtiennedeMartel That is... uhm... sad, not sure about truth
 
2:27 AM
Okay I need advice. I've integrated high-throughput cameras from more than a dozen manufacturers. I've never needed support for anything other than a bug report. I can't find the software trigger (edge triggering for variable delays between frames). Sent email to support, person can't understand my problem. His responses are one or two sentences telling me to check out some cpp file. Functionality not in the file. Not sure what to do. Piece of equipment is around $25k. Want to purchase ASAP...
One of the rare times I can fucking afford this thing, I can't get the software working (which has never happened, ever before).
 
2:44 AM
I also worked from 10:00 to 9:00 so fuck everybody, especially you
 
3:09 AM
We need to do a version of Simon & Garfunkel's "Homeword Bound" about IO bounds
 
 
3 hours later…
6:05 AM
Can you catch hair lice on an international flight?
I like to walk randomly in the airport while waiting for the connecting flight.
 
@TelKitty sure you can catch lice from a flight.
 
@Rick I wasn't sure, but I was kind of itchy after my flight from Sydney to Vancouver.
 
 
1 hour later…
7:16 AM
 
@Mikhail @Mgetz This gives an idea of where Zen 2 stands - including the SIMD stuff.
 
@Mysticial Do we have to go work or something tomorrow? Idk
 
@Mikhail I do, but I've gotten used to sleeping late and showing up late.
 
Oh I need to show you this hilarious benchmark on one of my IO arrays
(initiated remote desktop from cellphone)
Basically ran out of funds to buy real RAID card, and instead went with a RocketRaid from 2011.
These test mean NOTHING they just Boot up the Bios they Don't Run the CPU and it's FROZEN so as not to Blow UP. Still Pretty Good OH and those 570 M.B. are NOT going to be CHEAP and there are NO LOW Price Boards because of the New Chips and Cores. Get Ready to PAY for the CORES
This guy is a gold mine
I STILL DON'T GET IT THE FANS WITH ALL THE LIGHTS AND COLORS THE CARDS ARE UP SIDE DOWN. BY NOW THEY CAN'T MAKE THE FANS UP SO YOU CAN SEE THE COLORS AND THE FANS RUNNING. STUPID... HOW COOL WOULD THAT BE TO CONTROL THE COLORS ON YOUR FAN FACING UP
The Game is ALL about KILLING Blowing People UP.. Really Good Parenting and you know the Parents are paying for this Education. Like Harry Potter total Garbage
The REAL Problem is the F.B.I is on the GAME Co. Side that Means so is the Federal Government. 2 years ago the F.B.I said they are going after people who copy anything and try to sell it with HUGE Fines and up to Serious Jail Time. I FOUGHT THE LAW AND TH LAW WON. GOOD SONG EVEN OVER 60 YEARS AGO
INTEL Knows these are Business Chips so that makes them a TAX Wright Off. The M.B. and Ram for these are More Money than the Chip. 15,000 $$$ Later.
Everything the man says is gold
 
 
3 hours later…
11:18 AM
I mean they're not really all that wrong
 
@Mysticial that memory overclock... wow
honestly my thoughts are that there is probably scheduling concerns you could massage some more perf out of y-cruncher on that hardware if you wanted to
 
 
1 hour later…
12:46 PM
@Rick none of your business
 
 
1 hour later…
2:10 PM
@Mgetz Maybe, but I wouldn't bet all that much on it. Unless I'm badly mistaken, @Mysticial makes pretty heavy use of AVX2 and (if available) AVX-512. Even on their newest chips, AMD doesn't put as much effort (or chip area) into AVX as Intel does.
 
@JerryCoffin check the presentations, they pretty much doubled their FP bandwidth and massively increased the number of shadow registers
 
@Mgetz That's approximately enough to catch them up with Intel's AVX2 from 5 years ago (or so), but still well short of AVX-512.
 
@JerryCoffin eh... @Mysticial discussed it above, the issue isn't ALU bandwidth if I understand correctly but read and write to register bandwidth.
 
@Mgetz That certainly seems likely to me--if it weren't the case, AVX-512 should show a considerably larger advantage than it actually does.
 
Well AMD now has fully 256bit wide vector ALUs, that will take some wind out of Intel's sails as will the extra shadow registers, larger caches, etc.
The irony is that if AMD is 90% of the performance of Intel on base AVX loads they will still make more sense from a cost perspective
if they meet or exceed then AVX512 starts losing value quickly because it requires custom coding vs. existing impelmentations
 
3:11 PM
@Mysticial im assuming higher is better except the last one?
 
@JerryCoffin I'm 90% sure it's the memory bandwidth. The 27.8 seconds on the 16-core Skylake X is actually slow as it's old using an older verison. (from before my memory bandwidth optimizations) Now, I can go under 24 seconds on my 14-core at only 3.6 GHz.
So the gap is more like 22 vs. 33 seconds - or 50%.
 
3:36 PM
@Borgleader yes
I have the following benchmarks on my 14-core on a relatively recent version of the program:
2666 MT/s - 27.913 secs
3466 MT/s - 24.915 secs
Both quad channel.
So the fairest comparison would be to bring the memory all the way down to 2266 or even lower since bandwidth doesn't quite scale linearly with channels.
Then you're probably looking at 30+ seconds - which is now within 10% of the LN2 OC'ed Zen 2 with the memory at 4533.
@Mgetz I probably could, but I don't anticipate much beyond the cache sizes. They're probably running the Zen 1 binary which is already using 256-bit SIMD for 97+% of the relevant vectorized paths.
Off the top of my head, there's only like two (small) things where I picked the 128-bit path since it was shuffle heavy and didn't have enough of a 256-bit benefit to offset the extra shuffling needed to offset the larger vector size.
 
@Mysticial Test, optimize, retest
dunno worth looking at. Buildzoid is very curious how they are going to overclock and is scipping the 12 core part
 
64 MB of L3 right? So that's 2 MB/s thread - or about double Zen 1.
Hmm... That's probably going to matter.
 
Believe so on the 8 core, I believe the 16 core has more
 
Since the code is so bandwidth bound, raising the "spill threshold" may eliminate some extra passes over memory which are unavoidable both on Zen 1 and on Skylake X.
@Mgetz 32 MB on the 8-core.
Though the 12 core has all 64 MB.
Skylake X has the problem where the L3 is so slow that it's uselessly slow for the purposes of tuning. So I have to drop down the L2. Which becomes 512KB/thread.
 
@Mysticial interesting, that would make me think it's on the compute dies... but allegedly it isn't
 
3:50 PM
Combine that with the larger SIMD size and it puts the code in a corner where even the smallest operation has trouble staying in cache because the # of SIMD words that fit in cache is small.
So it ends up making more passes over the memory and consuming bandwidth.
 
so intel could fix that easily by just putting larger and faster caches
 
The situation isn't so bad that it's faster to use 256-bit instead of 512-bit. But it does eat large chunk out of the AVX512 performance.
@Mgetz Maybe not that easily. Last time I did a rough calculation, they'd need 4x the amount of fast cache (their L3 doesn't count) to match the efficiency of the desktop line running AVX2.
 
@Mysticial This was technically the same issue they ran into on netburst ironically
Either way @Mysticial I stand by what I said earlier: If AMD can meet or exceed on 256 bit than in most cases they will beat intel on value for most projects because the additional cost of AVX512 and the refactoring needed to support it will be significantly outweighed by hardware costs.
 
@Mgetz I agree. In this case, the AVX doesn't even matter. It's purely a bandwidth benchmark.
And you're not beating 4 channels with 2.
 
4:19 PM
Honestly I kinda think Intel shot themselves in the foot with AVX512, it's really too expensive on their current node to ship in consumer CPUs
They fourish skus that are "consumer" that have it aren't really available at all either
and honestly most server loads don't care about AVX512
 
@Mgetz I doubt it. The consumer line doesn't have the extra FMA unit. So it's all the same hardware - except maybe the decoders and the mask logic.
Actually no, I forgot about the register file.
 
@Mysticial yeah which is a massive amount of silicon
 
5:19 PM
@Mgetz I suspect Intel (internally) probably agrees. I'd bet the original plan was that they'd test AVX-512 on Xeon Phi, and by the time it moved into the mainstream, it would be fabricated on a 10 nm process--but now 10 nm has been delayed. At a guess, somebody decided to release it as an interim measure: generate some interest, and almost certainly improve at least a few benchmarks.
To get a real benefit, you just need to find tasks that involve a lot of repetitive processing on a small enough amount of data to fit in L2 cache.
 
Some of the new AVX512 instructions (not 512-bit widening) is significant. Recently I found a use-case where those led to like a 20-30% speedup in some compute-bound task.
Also not counting on all the masking stuff - which make it a lot easier for a compiler to vectorize.
 
6:05 PM
@JerryCoffin honestly I think that intel screwed up, they should have added flexible vector instructions that could more efficiently use the shadow register file instead of going fixed width
slower to spin up, but once going is much faster
@nwp That question should have been closed as opinion based five minutes after it was asked
 
@Mgetz Technically, the question (as asked) is about facts: there's some reason people make the recommendation. The identity of that reasoning is factual. The problem, of course, is that different people make recommendations for different reasons--and it's likely to descend into a discussion of the validity of the various reasons given, and that mostly is opinion based.
 
@JerryCoffin still not a good fit for SO
 
6:21 PM
@Mgetz True--just me being a pedantic asshole (as per usual). It does have one other problem: to at least some extent, it's based on a false premise. Quite a bit of development at SpaceX is done in C++. So, regardless of recommendations, C++ seems to be up to the task.
 
@JerryCoffin and JPL
they flew C++ to mars
 
@Mgetz ...but the Curiousity was scheduled to last for 90 whole days, and instead only lasted 15 years (so far), so it's obviously a complete failure.
 
@JerryCoffin AFAIK JPL currently flies C++ on all current projects, could be wrong
 
@Mgetz Probably. I just did a quick check on their job site, and all the software engineering openings I looked at listed a strong background in C and C++ as a requirement, and only one mentioned any other language at all (Python).
 
 
2 hours later…
8:56 PM
@JerryCoffin I am using that, seems to be the only option
https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/string/basic_string/stol
Is there an alternative way to use the stox functions w/o having to handle exceptions on bad input?
 
9:19 PM
@Nils Oh, there are lots of options. Just most of them really suck!
@Nils If a user gives bad input, they deserve exactly what they get! Remember: a user who gives bad input is a bad user, and deserves to be punished!
 
10:00 PM
Back in Sydney now. Although there is still the long ride of taxi to home.
 
@Mgetz true
 
^ why even respond?
 
@cs95 when I saw your message it was too late to delete
 
@Rick How 'bout the simple answer: younger than either the giraffe or me?
 
10:15 PM
he is probably older since he was insulted by the question
correction *objection to the question
 
C++ has features like template specialization and partial template specialization. These features seem very powerful, but in practice I find that I rarely use them. The only time I use specialization is for type-traits, or for my own implementation of Future<void>.
 
@StackedCrooked so you don't use variadic templates
 
SFINAE, on the other hand, is a feature I use now and then. Not everyday, but definitely much more often than specialization.
So. Perhaps Andrei is right about "design by introspection" (and his plea for "static if").
 
I hear they are optimized, no function calls, and you can use them with recursion
 
@Rick I do use variadic templates.
Funny thing is that SFINAE is a hack while specialization is a feature.
 
10:35 PM
@Rick I doubt it. Regardless of the warped physics that might be necessary to enforce it, one of the laws of Lounge is that I'm older than anything or anybody else.
Without specialization, we'd have less beer...
16
A: Printing lyrics of 99 Bottles of Beer

Jerry CoffinThis seems like a place that template meta programming would be useful (after all, we don't want to waste precious run-time in a program that's likely to execute this often). #include <iostream> template<int N> struct song { inline static void sing() { std::cout << N << " bottles of...

 
@JerryCoffin you don't come across old, more like, been around the block experienced C++ grunge hipster.
 
11:03 PM
@Rick You seem to have left out "psycho". But even though I don't, a few people my age have great grandchildren.
I barely stay in touch with them, so I don't have hard numbers, but I'd guess the majority of my former high school/college class maters are now grand parents.
 
11:47 PM
Looks like someone was trying to hack my gmail account while I was on a 13 hours flight. Not sure why they would want to hack the account, but sorry to disappoint them - even if they they did crack the account, there is nothing important there.
 
@TelKitty They're going to embarrass you by writing a really lame troll from your account, thus damaging your claim to being an elite troll. :-)
 

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