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00:36
@Mgetz wow
00:53
@ratchetfreak OTW Fuses during qualification/testing
But, its easier to duplicate the entire core, hence binning for devices with fewer and fewer defects.
Dubious that high pricing is due to manufacturing defects rather than market tolerance.
I'm not sure what the breakdown is of point defects vs macroscopic defects affecting multiple nodes
@Mikhail I wouldn't think so either, the cost of making a chip is the same regardless of defects
The price is set to keep demand and supply in line
@crasic Not to mention that the cost of the CPU as a percentage of the rig is small when you're building a HPC box. Its actually smaller as a % then in a laptop. For example, a full loaded node might be $200k, only $40k is for the CPU.
@Mysticial Well AMDs new thing scales a lot better no? IIRC I read an article that more or less implies they can "lego block" shit together and make CPUs a lot faster and with smaller teams than they used to. (I'm simplifying ofc)
Seems like that could be something useful for Intel as well
@Mysticial That's pretty meta lol
@crasic Also, what are these two categories of defects?
01:05
@Mikhail Just a categorization by size and thereby root cause. Compare the impact of some local heterogeneity in the substrate (atomic scale) vs say mask misalignment that causes a larger defect.
Isn't mask alignment easily fixed? Aka, the moment you notice it, you fix it compared to contamination or whatever the tension method Intel is using instead of doping...
I'm more talking about the kind of defect that comes from limitations, wear&tear, or simply malfunctions of the underlying equipment
It runs software (with bugs) and has hardware (which fails) and components that age.
Idk, my friends at Intel don't have those problems :-)
They run a tight ship.
Yeah, they do "preventive maintenance"
Problem is the direction of the ship isn't clear. If they sail in the wrong direction, and pursue an impossible process, they're fucked. Curiously, the people I know claim to not know whats going with the new shrink. So, the company is keeping whatever is going wrong under wraps.
This is bad for investors because you don't know if its just some contamination that can be fixed with assiduity or their process is unworkable.
01:15
I don't think they keep all their eggs in one basket, but yeah getting burned on an unworkable process is possible
 
2 hours later…
 
1 hour later…
04:44
Since council doesn't allow roosters to be kept on premise, I am going to swap the cockerel that has started crowing with 3 dozens free range eggs. The bird will be living on a farm with his new buddies instead.
05:12
Great. Looks like someone from China who has one of those Cannonlake chips is asking me for the Cannonlake binary that uses AVX512 VBMI+IFMA.
I guess people waste absolutely no time looking for a benchmark that can utilize the new instructions.
> i3-8121U
One theory is that they are dumping chips with defective iGPUs on the Chinese market
The guy reports 11 - 14% speedup with the Skylake AVX512 binary over Broadwell AVX2 at the same frequency. But the speedup narrows once you factor in the AVX512 clockspeed throttle.
How does he account for the throttle? Does he downclock the AVX2?
Not sure, but you can use Windows power options to artificially limit the frequency.
So, whats the actual performance with you don't downclock your CPU?
Might even be a slow down :-)
05:27
I asked him if he's the author of the article that produced these benchmarks:
I believe that one does take into account for the clock speed throttle.
That chip (and probably all of Cannonlake) only has one 512-bit FMA unit. It doesn't have the dedicated 2nd one like on the SKX chips.
So the fact that there's any speedup at all is already good news.
I mean, are those the max speeds for both chips? Or did he downclock the old one to make it have the same clock as the AVX512 when the FMA unit is engaged?
I believe so - as in AVX2 was running at the highest possible AVX speed and AVX512 was running at the highest AVX512 speed.
So it's a fair real-life comparison.
Not sure if I'm ready to spoil it so soon, but I won't be surprised if the Cannonlake binary crushes both of those above.
I also won't be surprised if it's slower as is since it's untuned.
The wall time difference reflects a extremely stagnant eco system, I routinely get those speed ups on my GPUs from software updates :-)
@Mikhail Without the 2nd FMA, I wouldn't expect any speedup at all - maybe even a regression due to the additional shuffling overhead. But maybe the reduced instruction count is helping out with the decoders.
Doesn't it have more memory bandwidth or something like that?
> Memory Bandwidth
41.6 GB/s
34.1GB/s
05:41
That was fast. He really wants my untested binary.
Guess I'll just copy-paste the Skylake X tuning parameters into the Cannonlake profile for now.
Not much I can do beyond that without the hardware.
 
1 hour later…
07:05
Make him send you the hardware
Fucking shit took 25 min. and 105 GB to compile on my 14-core box.
Last time I checked it was only 80GB.
@Mikhail I'm gonna try something a little different. I usually don't release binaries until I get the hardware first. But this also means missing out on all the launch reviews.
Depending on how this Cannonlake binary turns out, I might just enable it for the next version - prior to me getting the hardware.
Cannonlake will probably be the last "new binary" for a while. There's nothing particularly useful in Ice Lake.
And AMD is still playing ISA catch up.
Ven
Ven
07:37
o/, Lounge
Concurrency with Modern C++ by Rainer Grimm
What about this book to be added to stackoverflow.com/questions/388242/…
?
07:56
Hi
@SoupEndless books are for loosers
I'd need to read one to judge
Ven
Ven
I'd need to judge one to read
Found one
nwp
nwp
I should probably read the concurrency one actually. Or at least look through it.
08:02
By the time you finish the book, you'll be doing both pages at once!
Ven
Ven
@Morwenn not sure you were following papers back then, but does that ring a bell?
@Ven Nope, I've never seen that
In the future we'll get rid of float point numbers because you can achieve the same functionality in the language
I mean, I'm reading C++ Concurrency In Action by A. Williams, and I found his style far-far from good, so I wonder why would anyone suggest it?
But nevertheless that book is already in the definitive C++ book guide.
@SoupEndless It was among the first on the scene, but I don't think there was anything egregiously wrong about it.
08:07
@Mikhail did you read it? it's really bad style. read amazon reviews, that says mostly like "great material, served badly".
When I was a kid I read a few parts of it, mostly because it kept coming up on Google
You had some concurency expirience before you read it, for sure.
pthreads, and OS internals...
obviosly
Anyways, you havne't given a specific example of something wrong
08:10
but for, me who didn't have any expirience in it, it's just bad
nwp
nwp
You have to lower your expectations a bit. Most material about C++ is terrible, so when you find something that is just bad you treasure it.
Bad concepts/comparisons, unclear structure of sententess, bad code examples, needless repeating explanations of C++ features that are useless for one who knows and give no clue for one don't.
2 mins ago, by Mikhail
Anyways, you havne't given a specific example of something wrong
nwp
nwp
@SoupEndless Have you read it and made sure it is an improvement? That doesn't just come from having more experience?
And most of all I hate, that he refers to listing of codes that is far from where you're reading now.
@nwp You mean, Grimm's book? No, I have it, new edition was published this Tuesday, but didn't read it yet. Want to finish Wiliams's book first. I just was wondering if some have something to say about Grimm's book.
nwp
nwp
08:17
Then I would delay putting it on the book guide until at least a few people have read it.
"needless repeating explanations of C++ features", i mean unrealtet to concurency features, like move semantics, rvalue & lvalue difference.
k, thank you all for converstaion, bye
no problem, lots of love
Ven
Ven
At least America has the decency to shoot its kids, not inflict the horrors of C++ upon them.
08:34
I am bored, maybe I should go back to meta, there are many playmates there. Also 1337 trolls are not herdable ...
but then again I have a few unfinished projects so I should complete them first
Code in C++ induces autism
08:45
nope, it doesdoesdoesndoesndoesn't… mkay, maybe just a little bit
I haven't been disgnosed as autistic yet :v
I've been diagnosed before I started coding C++
I've been diagnosed with the gay though
nwp
nwp
Oh no! Did you get infected by frogs or drinking water?
I'm French and thus already a frog
nwp
nwp
08:49
So much sense is being made.
I just came to admit that some people around me were actually too damn attractive and that a few of them happened to be guys x)
On the other hand, can you be gay when you're non-binary? Hum...
Ven
Ven
09:06
@nwp frogs drinking chemtrails*
09:25
I filled a feature request for numpy :v
09:37
Pretty sure somebody already wrote numpy
numpy is great, except when it doesn't have the function you need and you can't make a loop over your data because it's way too slow
10:12
Python is the language we got, Octave is the language we needed.
PySide2 is finally officially released /o/
html is the kind of language we need
easy language makes it popular to use
11:11
The joy of debugging - when many problems can cause a similar symptom.
11:26
@TelKitty pretty sure it doesn't work that way, tbf I haven't bothered to confirm my diagnosis
@Morwenn it's all relative, wibbly wobbly.. oh wait.. timey wimy isn't involved, but it's still relative!
11:51
-6
Q: substitution management system for my school in C++ using data file handling

Mr. XI have to make a substitution management system for my school in C++ using data file handling. And unfortunately I could't make it due to some emergencies. can anybody write the code for me ? I have to submit it by 16th June 2018

bgc
bgc
12:04
hello everybody.
 
3 hours later…
14:55
Ha!:
AVX2 (Broadwell): 100 seconds
AVX512-DQ (Skylake): 87.8 seconds
AVX512-VBMI (Cannonlake): 66.5 seconds
4
single-threaded - all the same clock speed.
The guy got floored by the Cannonlake improvement. He did not expect that kind of speedup.
There it is... 2 years and 60k LOC of premature optimization has come to realization. This binary is going live before Cannonlake officially launches.
@Mysticial and once you can poke around with one yourself it'll probably get even better (unless you were just that good)
@ratchetfreak The "real" reason for the speedup is that back in 2016, I built a completely new algorithm from scratch around the new Cannonlake instruction sets. I just haven't said much about it since it was a 60k LOC gamble that I wasn't sure would actually pay off.
60 kLoC of assembly?
15:36
@ScarletAmaranth No, just templated C++ with lots of intrinsics.
phew
I was concerned there for a moment
@Mysticial IIRC this is a bit dangerous... you've broken a few CPUs this way ;p
Around January of 2016, I realized that the Cannonlake instructions can be (ab)used in a very special way to construct the next "killer" algorithm for multiplying large numbers.
Even though Cannonlake was far from being released, I was "so sure" that the algorithm would hold up both mathematically and in performance that I went ahead and implemented it from February to May 2016 - fully optimized based on theoretical performance models I had constructed of Cannonlake's architecture.
@Mysticial which would by why it takes 25 minutes and +100GB of ram to compile
Of course some of those models fell apart when Skylake X came out and I realized that the AVX512 implementation isn't as good as I had anticipated. But it wasn't enough to completely offset the (theoretical) speedup I had calculated prior to starting the algorithm.
15:42
@Mysticial God forbid you ever start doing GPU programming
We'll hear about melted graphics cards
The speedup on this Cannonlake laptop hovers around 25%. But this will drop off once the core-count goes up and the memory bandwidth problem comes back. Likewise, dual-FMAs will also reduce this gap. The old algorithm is FMA-heavy, the new one isn't - which is why it's crushing the old code on this single-FMA chip.
 
2 hours later…
17:53
@Mysticial Does Agner have cannonlake tables up yet?
@Mgetz No. Only like one guy in China has it, and this guy is totally intrigued at why my Pi program gains to much on it. lol
@Mysticial allegedly Intel has shipped laptops with it or some such, but only in china
@Mgetz If it ships in the US, I'm probably gonna grab one as a toilet tablet replacement.
so you can pi as you poop?
@ratchetfreak Nah, just surfing the net.

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