« first day (2669 days earlier)      last day (2505 days later) » 

00:26
Watching SatC
They're having a conversation as four
There is literally no two consecutive seconds of silence
00:57
Agner Fog -> Anger Fog
01:14
Seems to be writing sociology now days:
Cultural Selection

Evolutionary biology

Random number generators

Software optimization resources

Contact
01:39
anyone here good with python?
I am doing sudo 'easy_install pandas' but encountered whole bunch of deprecated stuff ...
02:04
thought you might like this @mik
02:39
https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-stats-for-2017/
/cc @Mysticial I think I might got with HGST for my NAS drives, < 1% failure rate is v good
any thoughts?
Morning.
@Borgleader Yeah they have a pretty good reputation regarding reliability.
They're now owned by WD though so maybe things can change.
Well those stats are for 2017 so hopefully if I buy soon I'll be fine xD
 
1 hour later…
04:23
@Borgleader I'd hold off until @Mysticial replies. I believe he recently posted that Seagate was doing well again (and HGST was no longer doing nearly as well), so it'd be best to wait for a reply (or do other research) before spending money.
I haven't bought hard drives in a long time. My last bulk purchase was over 2 years ago which was 16 x 2TB Toshibas. But I haven't really stressed them. And they're all healthy.
And uh yeah... was watching the super bowl with some friends.
way to bourgeois it up
-9
A: What causes down votes?

Apex CapstoneDown votes have less to do with the quality of the question and more to do with the online persona of the asker.

^^ /cc @Borgleader
sudo pip install pandas
having problem with this on raspberry pi
getting pandas for python
04:51
NVIDIA's NPP library has a image resizing function that take a scale factor instead of final size as an argument. For example (0.5) instead of 512 when resizing a 1024 image. Due to floating point rounding error, the resulting image can be less than the expected size, with no obvious remed. Who the hell thought this was a good idea?
05:02
Looks like the change happened in CUDA 9. When I try to multiply the scale factor in my own code (vs the result from the library), I get the right answer. FML, time to write a for loop that adds epsilons to the scale factor until NPP gives me the desired image output size...
do a binary search :D
they just keep putting out infuriating low quality shit, for example under known issues it says CUDA-GDB. The version information reported by CUDA gdbserver is "9.0" when it should be "9.1".
get your shite straight!!!
05:32
@milleniumbug Just finished writing a binary search :-(
wheel re-inventing, completed with error
06:02
@TelautonomousKitty Given that lately you're working on a drone, I start to worry just how literal "reinventing the wheel" might get...
I am working on autonomous (toy) car not drone at the moment ... 4 wheels
python ppl r sick ...
 sudo pip install pandas
Collecting pandas
collecting pandas for python
what kind of sick person would do that?
@TelautonomousKitty Some zoos collect pandas.
although RC car and drone share some similar components
I could modify the controls and have a autonomous drone instead
but consider I am having problem installing a lib package, autonomous drone can wait
06:44
yes, I got pandas installed finally
07:10
pandas on an RC car? that's rad
python on autonomous car, yes
but I might consider re-write it in C++/Java at some point in the future
Firefox seems to be a lot more written in Rust than ever
07:41
That makes a lot of sense since Firefox predates Rust
@Mysticial damn it's gone
@milleniumbug do a barrel roll
 
1 hour later…
09:06
Firefox 58 isn't that bad
It feels faster than 50
534
A: How to exit from PostgreSQL command line utility: psql

TedMy usual key sequence is: quit() quit exit() exit q q() !q ^C help Alt + Tab google.com Quit PSQL \q I think veterans of the psql command line usually shorten that to just: \q

Haven't seen that before. Epic.
@TelautonomousKitty always
Ven
Ven
Hey-o
09:44
@Mysticial 404 :(
 
1 hour later…
10:58
@LucDanton a co-process even :) Coroutines can be nice sugar, but I have two objections: 1. that's just replacing the parts that were already rangey 2. the fact that "it's the same code (...nearly)" is a problem. I'm trying to word the one_off hack more elegantly.
@sehe :D
Ven
Ven
Are you sure you have enough ranges in your life?
@Ven I range-quit!
Its database only having properties of Filesystem. Sorry if you are misguided. You can consider as database only. — Ajay yadav 1 hour ago
so accomodating
11:47
@sehe mind you, in that approach it becomes trivially more reasonable to have intersperse instead. But coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/5e848db2569f5369 really underscores that the problem is elsewhere. I'll keep turd polishing this
12:22
A problem with both push/pull coros, we're stuck with monomorphic element type
This basically breaks down any attempt to even abstract away interperse(", ") for an int-container - in a generic, composable way
It's not dissimilar from the fact that std::cout << std::quoted("hello") << "\n" works. but not std::cout << std::quote(my_object)". It's really a shame though. It would be kinda nice to be able to quote arbitrary "sub-streams"
13:21
tuple is a class, not a struct. I had to look it up to be sure (line 224), but there's no way you can make a struct do what a class does. Period. — Neil 4 mins ago
2
/cc @Mysticial there's no way you can make a struct do what a class does. Period.
Ven
Ven
@Borgleader comment was deleted
good riddance, it was wrong on so many levels
13:49
@LucDanton making some progress w.r.t. heterogenous push model: coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/911fd94bc46d192c (of course, now it still lacks any "compositing" of stateful decorations, but I don't have more time right now)
@Borgleader lol
 
2 hours later…
15:45
> Hi, In this parser, the assumption is we already now the general structure of the input ,is not it ? . just wondering how does this parser will be implemented when we don't know the input structure at first
I don't understand the question. Of course it's impossible to parse something without knowing the structure...? Am I missing something?
Ven
Ven
@fredoverflow GET /crystalball
16:41
 
1 hour later…
18:10
How's it going, everyone?
Any of y'all live in the vicinity of Kiev?
user8560436
guys where can i get the windows,h header/class?
18:31
@L.python What do you mean "where can you get it"?
@L.python Normally it's included with a compiler (e.g., VC++ or MinGW).
user8560436
18:49
@JerryCoffin i have gcc
@L.python In that case there's a good chance you already have it.
user8560436
ok let me check
19:01
I heard Amazon has windows.h on sale now; but you need to hurry because it's limited supply, they always run out of stock very quickly with these
19:46
@ScarletAmaranth Which leads to an obvious question: If they sell out quickly anyway, why would the put it on sale? Seems silly to put it on sale if they sell quickly at the regular price... :-)
nwp
nwp
Yeah. Makes more sense to increase the price before the sale.
20:16
@bazza just an afterthought, in case you were /really/ just trying to ask something else (for a friend) you can use the Posix descriptor wrapper for pipes, instead: boost.org/doc/libs/1_66_0/doc/html/boost_asio/overview/posix‌​/…sehe 17 secs ago
20:41
in our previous episode:
this week: chaingers.io
@sehe This is so fucking good youtube.com/watch?v=JOZSUdhrQo0
Berezovsky's transcendental etudes will never be surpassed. Even Berman's recording fails to enchant me in the same manner...
@Columbo would be nice at 2:51 if the instrument had been more in tune
That b5 is a self-undulating one even
Debugging Low Level memtest utility

for (size_t i = 0; i < MAX_ADDR; i++){
mem_ptr[i] = 0xAA11AA11;
if (mem_ptr[i] != 0xAA11AA11)
return 1;
}
@sehe Agreed, but that's due to the preceding tour de force accounts... :-)
20:57
long story short mem_ptr needs to be volatile or the test always passes
I have a vague feeling you're going to dismiss this as being too violent
But it hits my taste quite exactly
wondering why our failure rate didn't match the test coverage
nwp
nwp
That's like wondering why the screen resolution doesn't match the CPU temperature.
21:12
Now that you mention it...
@Columbo my neighbours might think that
@sehe :D
21:53
@nwp I think the wording is awkward, we are getting failure modes that austensibly should be covered, since these are hardware faults its a little more reliable of a metric than software unit testing
Basically, thought there was some crazy test corner case, but really the test was not a test
nwp
nwp
Those words make no sense to me in context.
22:19
@sehe the example wasn’t meant to stand on its own, it’s more of a launching pad for a discussion (well, a continuation of the ongoing discussion)
I think I engaged
yesterday, by Luc Danton
and at the same time it’s hard to say why it’s hard to express with range functions, save for talking about implementation details (with state being a recurring topic)
that’s where I was last time
@sehe I brought up coroutines to demonstrate that any loop can be turned into a range function; but at the same time I can personally say that doing it that way is still somewhat unsatisfying
you ran into some of that yourself when you brought up e.g. the loss of static information/structure re: the element type, but imo that’s a bit narrow in focus
Agreed. Notable gripes: efficiency, lots of copying and mutable everything.
in the larger picture I really want to turn the attention to the fact that we are relying on a coroutine implementation, which I consider is not innocent
Indeed. I was happy to drop that linker flag :)
22:29
and that’s where that ties up with the topic of state
when we find ourselves thinking 'wow I have to handle a lot of state to write that range function', we’re playing the part of a coroutine implementer
not for a general coroutine, but for the present control flow aka the particular loop
@LucDanton I understood that one at the start :)
@sehe oh good!
so my take on the original question (it’s really a matter of opinion) is that coroutines whether implemented by someone’s library/compiler/language/ecosystem or hand-rolled represent a baseline level that you don’t want to stoop down to
Oh yeah. Intrinic complexity.
exactly
and it’s quite hairy
it’s all fuzzy, but the idea is that the range functions you should bother to write ought to have clear, limited scope & purposes
otherwise it’s saner to write a loop or a coroutine (if you happen to have someone else’s implementation)
And, I've also established that some of the "decorators" do interact.
22:35
and would you rather put these interactions and compositions in a loop or a range function?
I might - in the end - forget about combining such "interacting" cases from primitives (if I conclude it doesn't get more elegant than the equivalent coro implementation), but that's it
Hey there
@LucDanton I'd rather express the combination in a type (with state), where some "execution logic" may have the permission to do cross-decorator intervention
that sounds spooky (the 'at-a-distance' kind)
It is. So, that's the essence of the question. "Does anyone has even tried" and maybe reached some good practice about this kind of thing
I suppose I can make up some of these primitives myself, but it will be a tabula-rasa idea and, like these things go, they're never quite right the first (few) time(s)
22:42
@sehe I think the more mutability/close interaction an approach exhibits, the better to implement it as a loop because it plays nicer with e.g. traditional scoping—again, it’s an opinion thing
I agree there, which is why in the coro approach you showed, I would not bother with the "one_off" thing. I'd just accept stateful loop (hidden nicely in the coro anyways)
The point is, when I do need such a loop, I don't want the state to be in my view (scope) at the usage site.
@sehe the one_off thing is fine as long as you are writing several such loops, it’s the usual refactoring
If I'm writing the loops inside a coro, I'd accept the duplication. That's not user-facing anyways and the invididual range function ought not be too complicated anyways.
So, while the abstraction is fine, I'd prefer not to have the "cost" of both the range functions and the helper abstractions
I meant refactoring in the DRY sense, not necessarily packaging a user-facing abstraction
I concur. It's valid according to DRY
My latest offering actually showed my preferred method. I also >abused< your max_aggregate_arity helper (really ought to be max_destructuring_arity I guess, but I didn't want to waste time figuring out how to write that)
22:50
@sehe that doesn’t sound like something I did
2
A: Arity of aggregate in logarithmic time

Luc DantonA bit of terminology first: we can argue that you are not so much looking for the aggregate initialization arity but the maximum aggregate initialization arity. E.g. the aptly named A2 can be aggregate initialized from 0, 1, and 2 arguments so its maximum arity is 2. Let’s turn 'is aggregate ini...

:)
what the fuck is that
Teehee. I bet you just warped the existing answer(s) to be O(log n) time
I didn't actually look at any other answer. I mean, Luc answered :)
@sehe thanks for the context; it is in fact impossible TTBoMK to figure out destructuring arity
Feb 1 '17 at 13:27, by Luc Danton
funny stuff, a decomposable thing can only ever be decomposed for one given arity and obviously the compiler knows it, but you can’t ask it what it is
@LucDanton This is what I concluded as well (limitations of expression sfinae, doesn't support declarations)
@LucDanton When I looked at this the first time, I had assumed that std::tuple_size<T> would magically work for destructurables (using compiler-instrinsics)
Alas
22:57
@sehe For further reading into external & internal iteration (which was the stealth topic) I can’t recommend Iteration Inside and Out enough
@LucDanton what do you mean by "loop function?"
also as you might expect I have a lot, lot more to say about ranges (aka the external iteration side of things)
Classic
@LucDanton I do expect that. I still don't know why you are implementing all these wizardries :
@LucDanton Zing
22:59
ouchie @LucDanton
@VermillionAzure maybe he said "loop" vs "range function"
And even range-function is probably a shortcut
@sehe because I haven’t found anything satisfying yet (in the C++ ecosystem)
Yeah I have that, but that doesn't give me limitless resources :)
(I know the implication)
So you're asking how we should accomplish iteration in a clean manner?
yeah 'range function' is a handwave for range functionality to avoid being too formal and define lots of things—a function which takes one or more ranges and produces a range is actually a good enough shortcut for informal discussion
@sehe sorry, I don’t understand
23:02
I don't think that explains both having and spending the amounts of effort :)
@VermillionAzure I am, on some specific points: codereview.stackexchange.com/questions/185302/…
@sehe oh yeah, it’s been becoming a bit of a bugbear as time has passed :( I’m not limitless at all
`Wow
This is the first time I've ever seen mutable
@sehe What is this code
and why is this so complicated just to solve the "first element doesn't need a separator before it" problem?
@VermillionAzure that’s a very smart question to ask
11 mins ago, by Luc Danton
@sehe For further reading into external & internal iteration (which was the stealth topic) I can’t recommend Iteration Inside and Out enough
@LucDanton are you being sassy with me again
continuations is another related topic
@sehe Oh, another final note: I pointedly avoided talking about Haskell (which you brought up early) because all of our discussion is from a decidedly imperative, C++-t(a)inted perspective
23:12
Yup. Let's keep it that way. Nice, relatable, mutable insanity
So.
You're telling me that non-local returns should be a way to do this...
@LucDanton @sehe I see what you're talking about now
I think it would be nice if you could leverage a delimited continuation pattern combined with an interface or specification for allowing for mutation of sequences while iterating over things
So, for example:
In fact, deferring things makes it easier to thing of evaluating the state at any given moment absolutely. This is what I expect would be the best thing I can aim for: make a "type language" that can express all the combinations of stuff, and then have an "output function" that can simply calculate the "current state" from those definitions in any given point of the stream.
The only thing that still requires dynamic state is when accomodating sub-sequences of unknown length
I would prefer to create a language that could handle this by using delimited continuations and incremental metaprogramming
where you pass return as the escape, but also allow for different types of escapes depending on what type of effect you want, perhaps?
23:16
Sounds yummy, but my grocer doesn't carry it.
Something like:
@sehe does that mean you’re thinking of allowing more than just forward iteration? e.g. coroutines that you can resume backwards?
@LucDanton That might be accidental consequence of it, but for me is still a non-goal (I don't see an application for it)
@sehe So you're looking for a non-uniform iterator that allows you to change the method of iteration
You're dangerously close to a recent meme right now.
23:17
In other words, you want to lift the normally uniform logic of "++it" or so on and so forth and allow some variation
You're so enthusiastic I find it impossible to tell whether you're making sense among the things you say.
@sehe for my money with just forward iteration ranges are completely boring and a non-topic; obviously that’s just external iteration though and you’re possibly thinking of something less narrow in focus
@sehe I think you can solve your problem by using two coroutines to perform the interleaving
I've been at that station
let x = [1, 2, 3]
let y = [4, 5, 6]

let y-it = procedure(
    it: Iterator
    ret: Continuation
){
    ret(it)
}
x.iterate(procedure(
    it:   Iterator
    ret:  Continuation
){
    ret(it)
    y.resume(y-it, ret))
})
@sehe Maybe something like this?
23:27
I don't speak gibberish.
@sehe You have a primary x.iterate procedure that takes in another procedure that it uses to perform an operation using the current item
The x.iterate also provides an explicit "ret" continuation
yes, and the thing is they need to know about each other (the inner iterator changes its inner state each time the outer one trigers). But you know, I'm more than busy with it as it is
@sehe wait what are you saying you're working?
You have now officially reach the meme.
What meme
23:47
@sehe in class can't watch

« first day (2669 days earlier)      last day (2505 days later) »