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16:01
@MooingDuck If you have a Standard interface, then yes, it is. That's why I'm writing a wrapper :P
hmm, what iterator is insert supposed to return?
struct the_best_interface_evah {
    void do_what_i_want() const;
};
@RMartinhoFernandes do_what_i_want_until_i_say?
@DeadMG Points to the inserted stuff.
@RMartinhoFernandes Uh... in English?
Sorry.
@MooingDuck Just want it to stop and it will.
16:02
so I can just return the position iterator?
whoa, ICU is much more than I thought it was. It already has a C++ UnicodeString class
Xeo
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes: Experiment cancelled after 64h (w/ 2h powernap at 48h), I got careless and was suddenly asleep. :(
@MooingDuck Which does not conform to Standard requirements at all.
16:08
lol, someone (non-room owner) requested speak access to the bin.
it irritates me- if you're going to go to the effort of providing a UnicodeString class, you should at least make it Standard interface
Interesting.
@RMartinhoFernandes I considered it yesterday, for kicks
Xeo
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes The bin is not only our bin, but for the other rooms too
16:08
@Xeo He's not a room owner anywhere.
Xeo
Xeo
oh
@Xeo Yep, totally what I would expect. I never managed to go past sixty-something hours either. At some point you simply wake up without even noticing you fell asleep.
Xeo
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes Nah, I knew that the situation was dangerous (I was lying in my bed trying to kill some time), I just got careless
That's what they always say.
If you get comfortable, you'll sleep.
Xeo
Xeo
But I was surprised, I wasn't nearly feeling as sleepy as I thought I would
16:11
time for breakfast
@Xeo IME that comes and goes in cycles. At some points you can clearly feel the tiredness, but at others you feel totally not-tired somehow.
Xeo
Xeo
Yeah
Rep cap. I was expecting it sooner, but I guess my "interview-style" answer didn't get as much attention as I expected :(
ISP y u block TPB!
Xeo
Xeo
16:17
@RMartinhoFernandes It was missing freehand stars, that's why
Stupid judge. Now I have to use a fucking proxy to get my music and software.
Xeo
Xeo
I even told you so in a comment!
@RadekdaknokSlupik Use google DNS server?
I thought I read somewhere that you can easily circumvent the ISP-level blocking
@Xeo I can't shoehorn that into the post. There are no pictures.
@Xeo IP block. I already use 8.8.8.8.
Xeo
Xeo
16:18
I'm sure you can do it!
Instead of "Thank you very much." I could end with "Can I see some freehand stars now?" and then post gratuitous stars.
But that sounds too ridiculous.
Xeo
Xeo
I'm all for it
Sorry, I can't bring myself to do it. It's waaaay too ridiculous.
Up to eleven. (You can google the trope yourself)
@RadekdaknokSlupik Use TOR.
hmm, computer goes really slow while visual studio compiles 120+ projects.
16:23
Google Translate works just fine.
Or one of the thousands of proxies.
Doesn't TPB have mirrors?
Tor is to a regular proxy what the Death Star is to a 9mm
Now that they're moving to magnet-only, mirroring TPB should be dead cheap.
magnet links suck!
@DeadMG Easy to crack?
Xeo
Xeo
16:24
They don't
they take forever to start
dl torrent file by HTTP is way faster
Xeo
Xeo
Err, not for me
fucktimkuik.org (Tim Kuik is the asshole who started the case agains the ISPs in the Netherlands) redirects you to a random mirror.
16:26
useful link
@DeadMG Inherently flawed?
Built to impress chicks?
@RMartinhoFernandes Almost infinitely more powerful?
since nobody on earth has any X-Wings, we can ignore the whole "thermal port" thing
Xeo
Xeo
@DeadMG Nobody on earth, but what about those on the "moon"?
16:30
That's no moon.
it's my left testicle
Also TOR is breakable.
Someone here is Finnish right?
@Xeo It's your mother.
Xeo
Xeo
oh lol
@RMartinhoFernandes aren't you Finnish?
Wut.
I'm finished.
@RMartinhoFernandes no, you were portuguese
@Cat is Finnish!
Xeo
Xeo
Polish
ah curses.
@MooingDuck @ManOfOneWay is from Scandinavia.
Xeo
Xeo
Why are you looking for a Finnish person so desperately?
Sweden, nevermind.
16:33
man
He needs to Finnish a project maybe.
2
Break Iterators must be the only iterator I've ever seen which required dynamic allocation :(
Dat fool Torvalds was Finnish.
@RadekdaknokSlupik And the Finnish people have been regretting it ever since.
@Xeo I got a bug report on our Finnish audio, and we need a word we didn't record. But I have a lot of similar words, and I'm wondering if I can fake it
sbi
sbi
16:33
@DeadMG any_iterator
I just typed .php instead of .hpp. Am I going to die now?
here's a question
it's frustrating that if someone posts a picture I can't scroll up until the picture is fully loaded and chat scrolls itself all the way
@RadekdaknokSlupik Yes.
16:34
current locale: global variable?
h++ is better, btw. Why? Because I use it.
@RMartinhoFernandes D:
@DeadMG Oh gawd, locales. I'm outta here.
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes There's also jalf and Alf.
They're not Finnish.
16:35
@DeadMG have the caller provide the locale, and don't store a "current" locale? Make it the caller's problem. Then they can make it global or threaded or whatever
@sbi Dane and Norwegian.
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah. You did say Scandinavian, didn't you?
@CatPlusPlus You can now take your foot back out of your mouth.
sbi
sbi
@CatPlusPlus It's an actual video of an actual X-Wing flying. Presumably on earth.
16:38
and google translate wont translate "kaksitoistan" from Finnish to English
@sbi And what does it have to do with me?
@sbi My TIE fighters did their job.
sbi
sbi
@CatPlusPlus How would I know?
@MooingDuck First hit at google: en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kaksitoista
I haven't said anything about any X-Wings.
sbi
sbi
@CatPlusPlus You have asked about it, though.
16:39
No, I didn't.
@MooingDuck You fail Google class forever.
sbi
sbi
@DeadMG Is that why they said it was made of pixels, huh?
@DeadMG You're Darth Puppy?
@RMartinhoFernandes I did once go by the alias DarthNader
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Do you two have a secret communication channel where you talk about such things? Because for me, there was nothing to indicate what it refers to (which is why I defaulted to the message above it).
16:42
I just know.
(Or guess right, but there's no difference, right?)
There's an NP-hard world of difference, robot.
hmmm
to allow break iterators over different things (characters, words, lines, etc) to be the same type?
naw
@RMartinhoFernandes I meant translate.google.com won't translate it.
Xeo
Xeo
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Our compiler will not emit error message <500 chars. Because everything else is for pussies. [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
SCNR
This y u no work.
Token lex(boost::optional<diag::Engine> diagEngine = decltype(diagEngine)());
boost::optional<diag::Engine> diagEngine = {}
Expected expression. :(
@RadekdaknokSlupik Ewwwz.
boost::none?
@RMartinhoFernandes Awesome!
16:55
@RadekdaknokSlupik decltype isn't a valid type in older compilers- a pre-Standard draft had it as some other grammatical section.
so you couldn't do, for example, decltype(...)::iterator
but you can try identity<decltype(...)>::type()
Xeo
Xeo
I knew that'd come
Hey everybody.. Can I bust in with a request for some reputation whoring?
16:56
= {} has never been more appropriate than right here though.
Xeo
Xeo
If it was supported by the compiler in question
Screw the compiler, I know the rules.
Btw, that code should work fine in GCC 4.7 and Clang 3.1. Upgrade yours, dammit.
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10823256/how-does-one-set-the-background-of-a-gtkwindow-to-an-image

I think this is a good question. Would some of you upvote it please?
@RMartinhoFernandes I'm using the latest clang release.
16:57
@JimNorton That's often not a good idea.
@RadekdaknokSlupik Hmm, lemme check then.
@JimNorton This is more likely to get you downvotes than upvotes.
oh ok... thanks.... don't want to upset people./.. I'm new here.
@SamDeHaan Why, thank you for suggesting that course of action.
(In fact, regulars might be offended enough to actually downvote the question just to discourage you from doing that again.)
Xeo
Xeo
17:00
@JimNorton If it was a good / interesting / well formulated question, people would upvote it.
user784668
@SamDeHaan Dat quote is teh suckin.
@Fanael It's teh accurate.
I don't like that policy. But I can't control you (yet), so...
@DeadMG that's frowned upon, even if it is in the FAQ thing
user784668
17:03
@DeadMG So wai dat question haz but one downboat?
@MooingDuck A mod suggested it :(
Xeo
Xeo
@Fanael "might be", not "will be"
Ell
Ell
hi guys
@Fanael There were two when I did.
@RMartinhoFernandes Not a big fan of it myself. Just aware of it.
17:05
#include <boost/optional.hpp>
void f(boost::optional<int> = {}) {}
int main() { f(); }
@Radek compiles fine.
Hmm. With -pedantic-errors too?
user784668
@DeadMG I see only one. 0 / -1.
:3935312 Same as his: clang release.
Xeo
Xeo
I seriously need to start paying attention to the log
@Fanael That has absolutely no bearing on whether or not what I said was truthful.
17:06
@RadekdaknokSlupik There's no other way!
@RMartinhoFernandes I saw that in your wheels source code. Over twenty "is a GNU extension" warnings in value_ptr.h++.
I use -Wall -Wextra -Werror -pedantic-errors by default. Compiles clean.
user784668
@RMartinhoFernandes Enable all the extensions! And use them everywhere!
@RadekdaknokSlupik Wait, what?
@RMartinhoFernandes Wait, -Wfatal-errors is not fine but -pedantic-errors is? Are you kidding me?
17:07
ok
Break iterators- not random access
@RMartinhoFernandes Over twenty "is a GNU extension" warnings in value_ptr.h++.
@LucDanton I do use -Wfatal-errors.
I see, that would make them non-fatal errors anyway.
But I don't like GCC's output with it.
I don't like GCC.
17:08
I need to check the manual, I'm not sure what ends as a warning that should be an error.
@RadekdaknokSlupik Your compiler must be compromised!
Xeo
Xeo
@RadekdaknokSlupik I know this might be strange, but do you actually compile with -std=c++11?
@Xeo always.
-std=c++11 -stdlib=libc++ -pedantic-errors -Wall is what I compile with.
-Werror is just annoying.
@LucDanton Apparently it's all of them.
@RadekdaknokSlupik srsly
17:12
Oh yeah, -Werror. This is what I should be using, and that I was using before trying -Wfatal-errors.
@RadekdaknokSlupik No, it's not!
Warnings are annoying enough. I don't ignore them, but I like the distinction between what is valid and what is invalid code.
An unused variable should not make the thing fail to compile.
You hands betrayed your true feelings!
Xeo
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes No, that were his true feelings
hmm, my script file has an error on line -1. Interesting :/
17:15
-Werror -Wno-error=unused, or possibly unused-variable.
sbi
sbi
You realize, of course, that everything I say is horseshit.
I use -Wno-mismatched-tags.
@RadekdaknokSlupik That's what -Wno-error is for.
@RMartinhoFernandes Would it otherwise come up often?
hmm
the ICU break iterator interface is kinda suck
$ cat test.c++
#include <wheels/smart_ptr/value_ptr.h++>
int main() {
    auto p = wheels::make_value<int>();
    auto copy = p;
    *p = 42;
    *copy = 17;
    return *p;
}
$ clang++ -v
clang version 3.1 (branches/release_31)
Target: x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu
Thread model: posix
$ clang++ -std=c++11 -Werror -Wall -Wextra -pedantic-errors -I/home/rmf/dev/wheels/include test.c++
$
No GNU extension crap warnings at all. Stop making shit up.
My code is perfect!
17:18
I didn't make that up.
Or my eyes lied to me yesterday.
sbi
sbi
My eyes won't even talk to me, and yours even lie!
@LucDanton It came up once or twice with forward declarations. The warning is worthless, because class foo; and struct foo; have no difference whatsoever.
I don't assign any "off-the-record" special rules to class and struct like that "structs are PODs" thing some people do, so it irks me.
@RMartinhoFernandes Me neither, but I generally have a tendency to use struct for things which do not require use of access modifiers and everything can be public.
Xeo
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes I just choose based on whether the first declaration in the structure will be public or private
@DeadMG Yeah, same here, but it's not something I follow religiously.
17:23
no me neither
I'm consistent enough with "I'm going to need just one accessibility clause, so pick either one; else class" that I rarely hit the warning and don't feel the need to remove it. Which is silly because it's sort of a maintenance burden to maintain forward decl. with type definition in tandem, but oh well.
@Xeo I'd find that confusing, I don't like that idea
well, I see the warning and I usually ignore it, because it's not dangerous at all
Xeo
Xeo
@MooingDuck Why would you find that confusing? It's not like in C that you need to say class X x; or something.
Whether it's a class or struct shouldn't matter at all to the user
ICU y u shitty interface
17:27
@MooingDuck The idea is "class or struct has no nothing beyond what the compiler assigns to it".
random-access movement, but there's no equivalent of b_it_1 - b_it_2
Xeo
Xeo
It's the same with class and typename for template parameters
No, it's not! typename FTW.
:P
hey Mooing Duck
Xeo
Xeo
I just happen to like class better because it's shorter, so I use that.
17:28
how complete is your Unicode class, anyway?
ICU is starting to le irritate me
@Xeo Yeah, I like typename because... well I like it, so I use that.
Xeo
Xeo
@DeadMG the "le" makes no sense there.
@DeadMG I'm about to begin total rewrite #5
@Xeo It's not supposed to make sense there.
You're counting?
17:29
@RMartinhoFernandes My current RTS engine is also about the fifth generation of that code.
where the first generation was about a month after I started learning C++
@RMartinhoFernandes I keep the old versions so I can copy/paste bits in that are still relevant
@DeadMG I have an old project I've been constantly starting over and over again about once every two years for the past ten. The first two were because I didn't have backups and the disks died. The others were mostly because I realized the code was so crappy I wouldn't want any of it.
well, at this rate, I'm looking to DL the ICU source and seriously modify it
if I can be arsed
@RMartinhoFernandes First was overly complicated, second wouldn't have worked, third couldn't handle utf7, and fourth I realized I was forcing needless requirements on my API that made everything harder than need be, so now I'm on rewrite #5.
Non-aggregate type 'std::map<std::string, TokKind>' cannot be initialized with an initializer list.
clang y u suck today
Huh? It compiles but it does give errors. :/
Ell
Ell
17:36
its just, its just like, its just like, a mini mall
28 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@RadekdaknokSlupik Your compiler must be compromised!
Told ya.
Oh fuck the compiler I'm using isn't the same as the one Xcode uses for its diagnostics. -_-
Stupid piece of shit.
wtf- why does creating a break iterator open a file?
What's the difference between declaring a function that takes an array as void foo(int a[]) vs void foo(int a*)?
17:39
@DeadMG That sounds totally insane.
er *a
@tskuzzy For arrays you should use std::vector or std::array.
And pass them by const reference.
It seems that int *a is more prevalant, but I find int a[] is more suggestive.
17:40
They're both stupid.
They both mean "a pointer to int". int a[] gives a complete wrong idea.
#include <vector>
void foo(const std::vector<int>& a) { … }
// All problems fixed.
unless you intend to non-owningly-point at a single integer, but I'm guessing not
*a suggests to me that it's a pointer to a single int, whereas a[] tells me that it's the pointer to the first element of an array of ints
 template<int N>
 void foo(int (&a)[N])
17:41
@tskuzzy And using it tells me that the person who wrote the function was a moron.
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah.
Could you explain why?
Or use this, even better:
@tskuzzy pass a pair of iterators
@tskuzzy Because array-to-pointer decay is hideously unsafe.
Because in C++, we have references.
17:42
and you have to be a complete moron to use it when you could use the superior C++ Standard library alternatives
template<class Iterator>
void foo(Iterator begin, Iterator end) { … }
And vector. And array. And other stuff.
Hm, I'm asking because I'm working with CUDA
oh, and non-generic too
@tskuzzy That's not really C++.
@tskuzzy Isn't that in C?
17:43
Yeah sorry for asking here, but the C room is rather dead
I was just wondering from a syntactic standpoint
Lol is there a C room? Must be a horrible place. Even more horrible that this room.
Thanks :)
facepalm
@RadekdaknokSlupik yes, I'm in it
you might have mentioned that
17:43
@tskuzzy asking C syntax questions in a C++ room seems silly.
then I could have just added you to my ignore

LOUNGE(C);

A room to hang out and chat. The primary focus is on the C lan...
oh well
opportunity now anyway
Haha yeah, but there was only 1 person in it. Didn't realize that person was online :P
Anywho, curiosity satisfied. Thanks for the help.
@tskuzzy If you want make clear that it takes an array in C, pass a size argument along.
17:44
The last message was posted 2 days ago.
2
lol
@RMartinhoFernandes tell that strlen.
Passing pointers intended as arrays without size is a recipe for buffer overflows and friends.
Passing pointers is a recipe for buffer overflows and friends.
@RadekdaknokSlupik strlen is about the only function where not passing a length has an excuse
@RadekdaknokSlupik Yeah, but in C, you don't have any choice.
@tskuzzy I try to remember to stay in that room when I'm online
17:47
@EtiennedeMartel Yeah but I don't give a fuck about C.
so Mooing Duck
were you going to write your own Unicode library without using Windows API or ICU?
because I could totally use that right now
sbi
sbi
From my Reputation tab: "-3 4 hours ago removed User was removed" Curious. How could I have gotten three rep through that user?
@RadekdaknokSlupik He does, so you're not actually helping.
@Dead after seeing your question, I have a feeling the ICU code in general sucks balls.
Those iterators look modeled on Java iterators, btw, where next is mutating.
@sbi It's a ghost.
17:50
@RMartinhoFernandes I got that feeling a long time ago, which is why I didn't want to do it until now.
@sbi A question upvote and a downvote.
sbi
sbi
@EtiennedeMartel That doesn't answer my question.
of course, "Implement your own Unicode support" is traditionally not the smartest move in the book
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Ah, yeah, that could be it.
Or three downvotes on their answers. More likely.
sbi
sbi
17:51
@RMartinhoFernandes Ah, right! Much more likely.
On a different note, this seems to be a much asked-for topic. (I keep getting upvotes for it.) Would that make an FAQ entry?
eh, I don't believe that it deserves a FAQ entry in it's own right
it's just a particular example of lifetime rules
I'd support a FAQ entry on lifetime in general, and that can make a fine specific example
OMG, this almost looks like a totally decent performance question! How could we let that happen here? — R. Martinho Fernandes 41 secs ago
fairly insane question topic too
My god, the lineup for the current HIB is awesome: humblebundle.com
Why didn't they warn me? I already own Bastion.
sbi
sbi
17:55
@DeadMG I think this relates more to "How do I convert stuff to/from string in C++".
@sbi Eh, I dunno. The problem the questioner has is that he violated the lifetime rules.
sbi
sbi
@DeadMG Yep. You're probably right, if that were part of a set of answers regarding conversion to/from string, it would be better.
@RMartinhoFernandes Actually, many of the ICU source files are marked with a comment suggesting that they were automatically generated from Java source files. They also do crazy shit like MAGIC_BUFFER null-terminated stack arrays.
and the source code is so impenetrable, I actually can't find the logic behind many of their classes.
you'd be batshit insane to think that brkiter.cpp contains the logic behind break iterators

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