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00:37
Cheers. It is particularly neat that you had the exact url to my server's Cups web-interface :) — sehe 8 secs ago
 
1 hour later…
01:41
shipped my code a day early, now I have nothing to do
That's almost never the case @Mikhail
Oh no, existential dread setting in. Maybe refactor some code.
user image
3
his eyeballs are outside of his body, and so are the fish's
That upsets me
·(_·
that cool lone hair
01:54
@Mikhail Upsetting
y u no hotspot u prepaid sim card
This room needs more pictures of Salman Rushdie hanging out with super models
So in California, I can turn right in front of a red light?
02:20
weird stuff on American roads, yesterday I narrowly dodged a chair in the middle of a 6 lines highway, today, there was a tumbleweed ...
 
1 hour later…
03:43
why would you not be able to turn right on red?
Because in Australia they drive on the wrong side of the road?
don't they got some sort of left on red then
wikipedia has the answer to your mundane question
In Australia, which drives on the left, left turns on red are not permitted unless a sign indicating otherwise exists at the intersection.
04:02
Let's debate on what a red light means ...
believed in the green light, the orgastic future that year by year recedes before us. It eluded us then, but that's no matter—tomorrow we will run faster, stretch out our arms farther.... And then one fine morning—So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
Hey guys, I've seen multiple ways to create a singleton in C++. What's your preferred way? This is 1 way: yolinux.com/TUTORIALS/C++Singleton.html
another way that I've seen is something like:
Obvious troll is obvious?
don't
@OneRaynyDay use static
04:07
Foo& instance(){
    static Foo foo;
    return foo;
}
I see yup, so the above is what you mean right?
The prefered way of creating singleton is "don't create a singleton because you won't be using a singleton"
8
@OneRaynyDay that's one way of doing it ...
@milleniumbug aw cmon now, there's a usage for anything, no matter how bizarre it is. Hell I bet there's a market out there for socks with holes on the toes area
@Telkitty Do you prefer globally static or locally static? Not sure which one really matters unless you have some kind of static definition race
not sure how often that would occur though honestly
there is no true local static
04:10
There's also market for furry outfits
@Telkitty I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing with different aliases, but I mean the prev example I gave was static, but the evaluation of instance() forces you to load it in during the call
versus if you have multiple "globals" you don't know the order of initialization
The real problem is that most times you're using a singleton its because you only want one thing. Instead of writing a singleton, fucking only use one of that thing.
Variables declared as static inside a function are statically allocated while having the same scope as automatic local variables. Hence whatever values the function puts into its static local variables during one call will still be present when the function is called again.
Right^ I didn't mean that you'll create a new static instance every time you call the function, I mean that it is loaded in when the local scope is entered and evaluated
@Mikhail unless dumb and forget that thing already exist
static is a good way of being fool proof
04:13
The singleton design pattern is most often used in large projects were nobody has any clue what the fuck is going on. In those cases its best to use Java.
@Telkitty How about not being a fool?
if that makes any sense, and @Mikhail I don't discriminate between people who are fools in C++ and fools in java
partially because I am also a fool
@Mikhail fool people didn't choose to be fool
also you can't choose whoever was or will be working on your code is not a fool
Also I feel more and more foolish as I learn more C++ because I realize it's an overwhelming language and I doubt the people who wrote the standards even know what they're doing 100% of the time
@OneRaynyDay don't fucking use a singleton
I mean that's just a political statement right there

·(_·
I most likely will not, FYI, but it's good to know about it
04:55
It's fine to know what a singleton is and how to make one. But there is no preferred way because you should not be using them in the first place.
That's not to say that singleton's should never be used. There are exceptions to almost every rule out there, but they are exceptions.
@Mikhail Looks like engineering samples of the 18-core Skylake X are starting to come out.
@Mysticial At least from my end the coolest HPC thing I saw was a magic speed boost when upgrading to CUDA 9. Like 10% faster FFTs without a change of hardware. Like, what the heck were we doing before?
I read an article somewhere (don't remember where) saying that Nvidia at some point released a "BIOS update" that improved performance of something by 3x shortly after AMD released a reasonably competitive product.
That is exactly my conspiracy theory
I have a feeling something similar to that happened with Skylake X and how the 6 and 8 core models were supposed to have gimped AVX512.
"btw we had it all along" :-)
05:05
Once AMD announced Threadripper, Intel probably decided to just not gimp them.
Intel isn't responding to inquiries about this discrepancy. At least I haven't heard back from my contact at Anandtech who said he asked Intel about it.
Sadly, there aren't many tech writers who can answer details about Intel architecture.
@Mikhail I can give conspiracy theories for why Intel stopped using solder and why they implemented the whole "phantom throttling" bullshit that's been plaguing me, other overclockers and even mobo manufacturers.
@Mysticial Id like to hear it
@Mysticial That is fair :)
BTW did some stack overflow'ing and I agree that there are some obvious downsides of singletons, but I do think that for small submodules to have singletons might be ok
@OneRaynyDay The problem is that mind set. You're making an OOP universe like its 2003.
05:10
@Mikhail For the thermal paste vs. solder, the "official answer" from Intel was a cost-saving move. The conspiracy theory is to intentionally limit overclocking to reduce the # of RMAs.
Most overclockers only pay attention to the temperature. They don't really look much at the voltages that are involved.
@Mikhail 2003? Is there something historical about 2003?
@Mysticial So you guys burn the chip and ask for an RMA? Does that actually work :-)
In reality, modern silicon isn't as sensitive to temperature as it is to voltages. Both temperature and voltage are in the exponent for Black equation. But temperature is relative to absolute zero. So a 30C difference in temperature is nothing compared to a +0.3 increase in voltage.
So they artificially increase temperatures to prevent the person from getting anywhere near the extreme overclocks that require 1.4 or 1.5v.
Running a processor at 100C vs. 70C won't damage it as much as 1.4v vs. 1.2v.
Of course, these are stupid conspiracy theories. In reality, Intel doesn't give a shit. The volume for these chips is so high that saving even a few pennies to not use solder will increase their profits. How many people they piss off is irrelevant - especially since they have no competition (until this year).
I know from sources that Intel is actively keeping a lot of "options on the table" to keep performance growing at a steady pace.
Some of the options they could easily take now but won't
On the topic of phantom throttling. I was able to probe some information from an Asus representative (at some difficulty) that the throttling is not really phantom. There is an actual drop in the CPU frequency. But it's not readable by most hardware monitors because it's "special".
There's a frequency divider that kicks in which drops the "real" CPU frequency. But hardware monitors don't catch it because they either don't (or can't) read this divider.
05:18
Else it wouldn't be phantom :-)
I don't think HW monitors actually monitor the hardware clock
Now, why would Intel use a frequency divider to throttle instead of just dropping the multiplier (as is the case for temperature throttling)?
Hypothesis #1: multiplier throttling is too slow, and they need an immediate protection against over-current.
Hypothesis #2: the frequency divider is just a hacked in band-aid for a problem they discovered too late in the development process to fix properly.
Conspiracy Theory: The phantom throttling is intended to trick the overclocker into thinking they're clocked at XX when they're running much lower. This keeps the overclocker happy while protecting the processor from damage.
@Mikhail They don't. They read the base clock and multiplier. Then they do some math.
The frequency divider that causes the throttling is separate. So if the monitor isn't aware of it, and the monitor can't read the frequency more directly, then they will misread the actual core frequency.
I'm thinking it's #1, it might be that you need different clocks to more finely control power granularity
The Asus rep I spoke to seemed to get a bit agitated when I pointed out inconsistencies in his initial explanation. Then he completely changed his story. So either he didn't know and wasn't willing to admit it. Or he knew, and wasn't really willing to divulge it for whatever reasons.
Intel has released chips were the ALU effectively ran twice as fast
@Mysticial most people at Intel don't know
I think he just wanted me to shut the fuck up because I kept asking too many technical questions.
I'm gonna wait to see what VTune reads the frequencies at. But that requires a version of VTune that isn't released yet.
05:27
Is this your 1 GHz system ?
Though I have a strong feeling that VTune is also just reading the multiplier and is oblivious to the frequency divider.
@Mikhail The Skylake X one.
That 1 GHz on Linux was because Linux wasn't handling the pstates properly - even with Intel's own drivers.
Once I disabled them, it clocked up to the speed I wanted.
Yeah, I mean you can't actually read the clock, and even if you did hook it up (we did in an EE lab) it looks insane (really bumpy, etc)
@Mikhail I believe there are kernel mode registers that give you the multiplier.
For the divider?
No, the main CPU frequency multiplier.
The divider is invisible.
IIRC, there are also counters for real cycles ticked. (a version of rdtsc that does real cycles) And if you count it over a known amount of time, you can determine the real frequency.
But that has very high overhead. So monitoring programs don't do that.
05:31
I don't see why they are necessarily kernel mode though? A few ASM snippets pop up online.
@Mikhail For the real cycles version of rdtsc?
So one strategy is to get the reported clock frequency info from the SMBIOS
@Mikhail Ah, I've tried that for Windows. It's doesn't give very accurate nor precise information.
Well, I tried to do it through WMI. Which apparently accesses the SMBIOS.
I don't get what you're trying to do. Are you trying to measure a change in reported frequency?
@Mikhail Are you asking about what I tried to do in WMI? Or trying to measure the real frequency when throttling?
05:42
The later
You're hoping vtune will show some frequency throttling?
I'm curious to see whether VTune reads the real frequency, or the fake one that omits the divider.
But its extremely unlikely to read the divider, because that probably isn't exposed.
That's what I'm thinking too.
Also parts of the chip might actually run at the undivided speed
If that's the case, VTune will read high turbo frequencies and very low IPC.
The Asus rep was extremely adamant that there is no IPC throttling. So the processor isn't turning off execution units or anything. Fair - that was a bit farfetched anyway for anything other than the dedicated 512-bit FMA.
05:46
nvidia GPU land is easier :-)
Or perhaps VTune will detect the throttling and tell me directly.
That seems unlikely though. Intel's software significantly lags behind their hardware. And none of their shit works on their own new processors for months.
I don't think is a well defined measurement because part of the chip is running at the faster clock (probably)
@Mikhail There are at least 2 frequency domains within the core. Core and L3 cache/mesh.
Each individual module/execution unit may derive slower clocks from the main clock by clock modulation.
I'm not sure if anything tries to run faster since up-scaling a clock requires an analog circuit involving a PLL of some sort.
I gotta point out that the Prescott's ALU ran faster...
@Mikhail Yeah, I realize that. I'm not saying it's impossible to scale up frequency, but it's certainly more difficult than down scaling by an integer.
@Mikhail An alternate implementation is that the ALU is the main frequency, but the rest of the core is downscaled by 2x from that.
And they simply report that downscaled frequency since it applies to the majority of the circuitry.
05:58
I don't know if its easier to double or to halve the frequency
halve is much easier.
not sure if that applies to analog though
Downscaling a clock by an integer factor is as simple as throwing a register and an adder to the circuit.
Yeah, I understand that.
Up-scaling requires you go analog and a PLL. I'm not sure of the details there since that's out of my expertise.
^^ looks complicated
06:01
Wait, you're the person who wrote the program to run hokouonchi
w o t
@Mysticial One thing to consider is that the PLLs are used to get the clock rate to the GHz level to begin with.
@Mikhail Yes, so you'll need one to generate the input frequency. Then every sub-component uses it either directly, or divides it down.
I think its a ladder, supposedly it starts from 14 MHz
13
A: What generates the clock signal in a fast CPU and how does it work?

Wouter van OoijenActually crystal oscillators can easily go up to 10's of MHz. Above that in most cases a PLL (Phase Locked Loop) is used, which is an oscillator that is not very accurate in itself, but can be tuned (its frequency can be adjusted somewhat). The frequency of this high-frequency oscillator is divid...

okay i need to sleep
peace
The way my Dad explained it to me was to put two inverters on each other and they will oscillate. Changing the voltage will control how fast it oscillates. Of course actual digital circuits need to do a lot more "clean up" to get the right frequency and to get a clean square wave.
@Mikhail night
@OneRaynyDay I should probably reveal the guy's real name. He wanted to be anonymous because he gets too many emails. But unfortunately be passed away a couple years ago so that shouldn't be a problem anymore.
But I haven't been able to contact his family for permission to release his real name.
At the very least, nobody in his family is monitoring his email account anymore.
If you could, that'd be great just for pure curiosity sake
06:18
Hello fellas
I am traveling, I should have better things to do than be on the internet ...
I blame it on the local heatwave
heat sucks
And my threshold is quite low (over 25°C)
although got air cond inside car & place I am staying
which means I am confined to inside, not the purpose of traveling ...
heading for coast tomorrow
@Telkitty You're in California right?
06:28
I guess it would be to hot for my taste
06:44
@Telkitty it's a choice
06:57
Nevermind, got it! Was using the wrong input/output data types <.<
07:44
14 messages moved to bin
user image
3
Hm..
I guess I am not going to look at those messages.
08:00
@Xariez even then, watch out for conceptual differences: coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/f88c4deb3038c568 (floating point arithmetic is not algebra)
Ven
Ven
Hi
> you don't have to know all the undefined behaviours, because mostly you should avoid undefined behaviours anyway.
Another gem.
08:28
@Ven If you indulge it, it makes a bit of sense. But in any practical sense it means "I can't imagine understanding it well enough"
Now. That edit is quite funny. — sehe 1 min ago
Ven
Ven
@sehe If you don't know shooting yourself in the head kills you, it will still kill you.
That's my point.
However, his point was likely more intended as: you don't need to know all the dangers of guns, mostly you just avoid the presence of ammunition
08:42
hey :)
when I have a forked history in git, let's say a master branch and a feature branch, does it matter whether I merge the master into the feature or vice versa? I mean in the end I eventually delete the feature branch and my master branch leaves alone
Where do you want to fix the possible merge conflicts?
I'm just starting with git so I'm no sure whether I correctly understand your question, but suppose I'm working on a feature and and my branch is called is feature and a collegue of mine has worked on origin/master and then I fetch and merge feature with origin/master does it matter know in which direction to merge? or wait is it even possible to push my feature branch? sry for these many questions :D
Just merge master to feature. Fix conflicts. merge feature to master
@Felix.C If you are new to git you might want to take a look at this: github.com/horttanainen/gitflow I devised the scripts for a project I was part of where people where not familiar with git
08:57
I guess "Don't be evil." is now completely out of window.
hmpfh
I wish Yamaha made a Desert Sled bike
current adventure market is so annoyingly missing customer expectations
or maybe I'm just the minority and the selection bias makes me see all people complaining
I wonder if the new smaller KTM is gonna land in 2018
> We expect the engine to produce around 100 to 110 BHP of maximum power
oh oh oh oh
@Ven Except sometimes, but chances are that it will kill you.
Ven
Ven
@Morwenn pretty much like C indeed.
nwp
nwp
09:12
@Felix.C Merging master into feature and then deleting feature doesn't seem useful. The other way makes much more sense.
09:29
@Felix.C Sometimes I like to first merge master into the feature branch so that I can fix any conflicts in the feature branch. Then I merge back to trunk. (That's what I do when using svn. Not sure if the same logic applies to git.)
Ven
Ven
well the first step to use svn is always to lie down and cry
svn is fine until you actually try to use it
Ven
Ven
svn is fine until more than one person try to use it
svn is no fine
09:41
@Horttanainen no
Ven
Ven
no
oh my bad
wait til you try rtc
Ven
Ven
> Google Dart Team published: How I do Developer UX at Google
It's easy to get UX right when you have no users.
> On the adventure riding world the term unicorn has been used to describe that elusive light-weight, multi-cylinder, rally-ready motorcycle which is also ready for adventure.
Ok so it wasn't just me
Everyone wants the motorcycle that doesn't exist
09:48
@BartekBanachewicz Have you read zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance?
@Horttanainen no
looks interesting
Read it someday
The audiobook was really good
I have a good version of the audiobook if you are interested
@Horttanainen audiobooks are too slow for me, I can't listen to them
@BartekBanachewicz Okay. The book version maybe better anyways because the concepts are sometimes deep and require more thinking than the audiobook pace allows
7 bucks on kindle
might just buy it
09:56
Do it. One of the best books I have read
10:16
thanx guys for the hints
My brother brought back the spiciest noodles he could find in South Korea.
Guess I'll just die.
I can mostly handle whatever « extra spicy » things you find in France, but Asia-level extra spicy is something else xD
@BartekBanachewicz Well, that ain't totally false.
Haha, looking at a WG21 wiki from 2005.
> Unicode: This should make it into C++0x
> XML: This should make it into Tr2
> Networking: This should make it into Tr2
> Reflection: This should make it into Tr2
> Filesystem: This should make it into Tr2
Looks like they had fucking high hopes.
Ven
Ven
:D
Plus there was a proposal to add 150 statistics-related functions to the standard library.
On the other hand, it seems that the core proposals of that time have been more successful.
10:39
QUESTION
Is there a language out there where typed metaprogramming and reflection and mutation is king?
@VermillionAzure You can do metaprogramming in Template Haskell but obviously without real mutation.
@wilx Hmmmmm
And also has homoiconicity as a main feature
@wilx homoiconicity
@VermillionAzure Lisp or Scheme then? :)
11:18
@wilx If you say so
11:54
@sehe Do you disagree?
nwp
nwp
I wonder what would happen if you make a job ad that says "We strongly encourage white male applicants for this position."
@VermillionAzure terra
oh typed
@wilx I don't feel I have to disagree. Vavuous statements are just that.
then dunno
@wilx TH isn't typed
GORKA does not simply resign you see ... recall if you will your Sun Tzu! 🎶 @SemiToned 🎶 🛰 @CHAPOTRAPHOUSE 📡 👁‍🗨… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/901482060271038464
Selfie 2.0, art edition
@nwp There's no need. The problem is that's implied almost everywhere (of course not in cleaning or care)
12:03
woof
floof
@nwp The point is that saying "We encourage XXX" where XXX are minorities in the market, it sends the signal that "No, it's not a waste of time this time, like it usually is for you". Of course, it SHOULD NOT be necessary to state it, but it can certainly help.
In fact, it would help to NOT say it in a job description, but instead have it in a public HR statement
or a tweet
if lucky the tweet would go on the news, free advertising for the company
'should we spend $50,000 on AdWords???' 'hmm i have an idea involving twitter..'
5 hours later: BREAKING NEWS
nwp
nwp
@sehe The part "like it usually is for you" is my disconnect from the world I guess. In my mind there is basically nobody who would turn down a minority member for being a minority member. Usually businesses cannot afford to do that, they go bankrupt for such terrible business decisions so you wouldn't want to work there anyways.
@nwp The overwhelming evidence points to it being real. And the status quo has gotten a life of its own where the current staff subconsciously assumes the status quo must have merit, because ... you know it's how it's always been etc.
> Usually businesses cannot afford to do that
If only
nwp
nwp
12:18
Hiring better employees for less money by being less racist and sexist should give you a significant advantage. Eventually some company will figure that out and dominate in the long run.
Also the ad is targeted at applicants, not at HR, so that clearly wouldn't even help.
There is still the slight problem with perceptions and status quo. Companies might /know/ but if candidates all opt out of the field pre-emptively because of how things are now...
nwp
nwp
Is that really what's happening? "Hey, there is a cool programming job! I'll apply! Oh wait, I'm black, I'll better stay unemployed."
And the lesson that you can apply to jobs where you fulfill at least 30% of requirements is something that everyone has to learn.
@sehe Did you mean vacuous?
I did. No clue what I typed
Ah
@sehe Also, I am not requiring you or forcing you to disagree. I am just asking what's your beef and if you do disagree. :)
12:30
I was aware of that.
nwp
nwp
Is there something like this just better? That article essentially says you become sexist because you met a bad member of one sex early on and then confirmation bias turns it into sexism which would mean that it is pretty fair (the probability to be sexist equals the probability of the other sex being bad) which is probably not what I should have learned from that article.
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix wear your goddamn helmets
Hey peeps guess who’s back?!? I’m gonna let’s @SRuhle get warmed up at 9aET & then it’s #reunited on #velshiruhle 11aET!
oh hey
Ven
Ven
162
Q: Add a language to a polyglot

user62131This is an answer-chaining challenge in which each answer builds on the previous answer. I recommend sorting the thread by "oldest" in order to be sure about the order in which the posts are made. Note: This has become quite a long-lasting challenge, and posting new answers is fairly difficul...

user784668
@BartekBanachewicz better still don't ride bikes
12:38
@BartekBanachewicz reminds me of when you posted a MLP image.
@Fanael on the contrary, more people should ride bikes
if everyone driving alone to work would ride a 2-wheeler the traffic jams would be cut by at least half
probably more
I don't think it works that way. At all.
In my experience, people are sexist because of permanent reinforcement in the status quo. Some people outgrow it, and that would be because they met good counter-examples. Problem with a good percentage of people is that counter-examples never get a chance to begin with. This is the very essence of stereotyping
@nwp (disclaimer, if you were just critiquing the article, I didn't read it. I just went off your summary)
nwp
nwp
@sehe Can you give an example of that permanent reinforcement? I seem to not notice any.
user784668
@BartekBanachewicz If they used a bus instead traffic jams would be cut 40-fold.
If all people would just hold hands and walk to the ocean there would be no traffic jams
5
12:47
@Fanael bus isn't really comparable, as it would make the commute much longer for some people
also a bus means you're no longer free to travel precisely when you're ready to leave (IOW even more waiting)
@Ven Wesh
Ven
Ven
@Rerito weche
Do you remember our convo the other day where you suggested something to me to replace my design?
I don't remember your suggestion. Can you remind me what it was?
(I'm browsing the transcript but I don't remember the day on which it took place)
Ok found it
@nwp Then you're like most loungers: indepent critical thinkers. However, you also expect the lady to be the secretary, and you expect the people in homes for the eldery to predominantly female. You too expect the female tech worker to be more likely the analyst, test coordinator or UX specialist. That's pretty inescapable in western Europe/US.
Things are different int "off-shore" zones, like Ukraine or India
I've been surprised at how surprising it was when I encountered that difference.
And no, I don't personally make that difference. It's just the everyday impressions
Kids let you know exactly what stereotypes they get ingrained: that's fun to experience.
It's really hard to counter-act. If not impossible.
(OT: I remember the times when it was hard for me to keep up with lounge pace)
nwp
nwp
13:11
Maybe the lounge will die and be outlived by the Q&A room. That would be quite ironic.
Ven
Ven
@sehe Did you always backlog the whole chat?
Yes.
@nwp Or not, depending on how you look at it. The URL still says, and always has, "stackoverflow.com". So it's not very ironic if stackoverflow turns out to be the staple of it
Ven
Ven
I tried to do that at first but stopped.
Feb 11 '12 at 23:22, by sehe
@Hoxieboy Nope but the chat has a history, and I'm addicted to reading it
I kept that up for at least a year.
Ven
Ven
Feb 11 '12 at 23:24, by sehe
@Hoxieboy You must be correct when you say "I believe". You probably do, and we have no way to verify it
nwp
nwp
13:18
Let's all post stuff from elsewhere!
> The [KTM 450 Rally which rode in Dakar] engine produces roughly 68 horsepower
wow. That's... surprisingly little
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix As I recall, the legends say only a virgin can catch a unicorn. I guess that makes this a picture of "virgin on the ridiculous."
Well I guess it's an equivalent of a ~90hp engine working on 65% capacity which seems doable in the long run, since dakar bikes are pinned pretty much entirety of the time
Ven
Ven
@sehe Maybe you'd enjoy reading this. Especially the later parts.
Perl 6, alas, doesn't have variadic type parameters.
Jun 26 '12 at 16:24, by sehe
@sbi this message has a history that shows you unbinned a message that was previously binned. That's complicated. :)
That tooks some tries
nwp
nwp
13:22
@sehe That arrow seems not to point at the right message.
@Ven Maybe it's just me, but I find it utterly hilarious when anything related to Perl 6 mentions "timely".
5
Ven
Ven
@JerryCoffin I appreciate those who prefer to get things right first, then get them fast :-). So maybe it's just you.
@nwp I think so (you found this right)
@Ven You know. You can't really argue Perl got so much right. Perl6 got a bit better than ... well anything Perl before, but still. That's Perl*6*
nwp
nwp
@sehe I did, and I think you were referring to Ven about reading chat history, not me. Did we merge in your head again?
Ven
Ven
@sehe well, it's not so much about Perl getting things right rather than Perl trying stuff out so people can see what not to do.
You don't hear me defending Perl 5, except to say I have fun programming in it.
13:27
@Ven I can appreciate the sentiment, but even trying to get things close to right is so utterly un-Perl-like that Perl developers are the last group of people on earth to even be able to recognize "right" when it slaps them in the face.
Ven
Ven
@JerryCoffin That's an interesting personal attack against Perl developers... not.
The other problem is that most of what they're trying to invent with Perl 6 isn't really new at all. They're basically re-inventing SNOBOL 2. SNOBOL 4 is pretty much "what Perl 6 might turn into in another 20 years or so, when they fix not only the mistakes they're making now, but the mistakes they'll make in fixing the mistakes they're making now.
Ven
Ven
It's not and you know it.
But whatever you want to say to look cool while bashing Perl for everyone else's amusement.
@Ven Sort of true, but including 5 rounds of "fixing the mistakes they make in fixing the mistakes they make while fixing the mistakes they make while fixing the mistakes the make..." would lead to a boring sentence.
I like Perl's quantum operators.
Ven
Ven
13:32
@Morwenn ...Atomic? :P
@JerryCoffin where you either 1) come to a grinding halt and hack everything around new features you want to add while not breaking BC 2) you create a new thing
Ven
Ven
Ah, those.
They're stolen from Perl 6 (which also has none and one).
Well, "stolen" is a big word. Damian wrote them into the spec and made the module.
I suppose it's not stealing if you invented it.
Hint understood, though: I'll stop pinging people with links to Perl6 stuff.
@Ven Except that it's really not a new thing. The basic direction of Perl 6 really is pursuing the goals that SNOBOL met decades ago. Now, it's certainly true that SNOBOL had some shortcomings in other areas (particularly flow control). But it's also true that if you want to add nicer flow control (and such) Icon did that long ago too.
Ven
Ven
Here you go again pointing at one particular thing and saying "This was done" / "This was thought about". Sure?
I don't think 6 is about "nicer flow control" and I don't see many people saying that here.
I don't know Icon. Might be interesting. Looks like Common Lisp's loop but as a separate language instead.
@Ven No--wishing for nicer flow control is a (perfectly reasonable) reaction to SNOBOL 4.
Ven
Ven
13:41
Where you're arguing about your own stuff. Ok.
@Ven When you start by claiming that something is new, pointing to "this was done" seems like a perfectly reasonable reaction, and (particularly) pointing to relevant facts of which you apparently weren't previously aware.
Ven
Ven
@JerryCoffin I mentioned getting things right, I think.
@nwp Not this time :) I actually found that meta-meta-link-reference-to-historical-edit-of-reverse-moved-message a very good response to your slight jab at the dumpster-diving that is history-quoting.
Wow, that's harsh. I can imagine that being grounds for contract termination with the nurse but jail time?
13:42
@wilx Something tells me there's more to the story.
@nwp (I admit I sometimes realize it happening, "Ven" and "nwp" are both short and the gravatars are similar enough for me to mix. It would help if one of you stopped being reasonable at all. Or you know, get a read avatar :L)
nwp
nwp
You heard it here first, I got room owner permission to stop being at all reasonable.
Ven
Ven
No, I got room owner permission.
Lol. Where's the italics? 300% zoom and still not seeing it :)
@Ven Yes, you mentioned that as well.
Ven
Ven
Ok, so probably should answer my point rather than cherry-picking parts you want to answer.
13:47
> willfully .... failing to
That would be "refusing to". Refusing to honour preference could easily become "Willfully disrepecting", leading into "bullying" or "abuse" given a dependency relation.
I haven't read the story, but it must aggravating things like that (much like "name-calling" is... so-so. But if it's consistent, daily and coming from a teacher at school, you know...)
hello all
question for the performance/benchmarking experts
lel - paging Dr. Pi
is using linux perf stat for measuring cycles used by a piece of code a good idea?
Ven
Ven
haha
hi litb
@JohannesSchaub-litb sometimes it's the best tool available. What is the purpose/context etc.
13:49
@JohannesSchaub-litb Probably not. If you want to do cycle counting, you pretty much need to use rdtsc directly in your code to eliminate overhead and (especially) unpredictability from function calls and such.
@Fanael also they're better than tinder apparently. (You can forward to 5:00 because that's the funniest part)
@BartekBanachewicz I tried watching the rest of the video :(
tried
@thecoshman he looks like a chill dude
at least it's not the idiot prank type, getting random fistbumps seems fine
00:00 - 14:0014:00 - 00:00

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