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22:00
Men do not feel.
... which isa waste of time and not funny
@DomagojPandža That's not true at all.
Ell
Ell
Men feel!
I'm actually pretty emotional and volatile.
Does that keyword even exist
I'd need a girlfriend who was a rock to lean on
22:00
I guess I'm just static.
emotional volatile int
Available to just my little translation unit, my world.
Everyone else can define me as they like, I don't change for them.
Ell
Ell
Sluts should burn in hell
Emotions and feelings is what allows for continuity of living. Without those, your life would be pretty much like a photo album. Event. Event. Fairly annoying i daresay.
Yet so much simpler
People would focus on the real, important stuff
And stop whining
Ell
Ell
22:02
For(;;){ delete slut };
Lacks a ; (also your for has a capital)
@Cicada It's really not that simple.
Ell
Ell
My bad
@Cicada Good lexing.
Ell
Ell
And I'm with puppy. It's not just as simple as stopping whining
22:03
Then, tell me what are your problems exactly
I would catch an exception for you.
Jump in front of an access violation - for you.
You feel unloved? Hated? Something?
@Cicada Restricted.
like in a cage
Ell
Ell
We have already been over my problems :L
I'm tempted to answer "good, that avoids aliasing", but I was told it's unfun so I want.
Restricted by who/what and how
22:04
@RadekdaknokSlupik intriguing to quite an extent, that.
Being able to control my emotions is a part of who I am. But it's not about suppressing emotions, it's about rationalizing them until they disappear.
I've spent my whole life excelling at things and asking questions, only to be told that I can't do or learn more because the rest of my class can't keep up, or because some idiot politician decided that it's time to pointlessly weigh the strength of 13th century fortifications
and now I'm at university and it's the same bullshit all over again
Ell
Ell
Once uni is over, you will be free
School systems are useless.
@Ell Not soon enough.
22:05
@sehe Hello, me.
@Cicada I'm quite sure, from the gravatar, that we wouldn't be confusible in real life :)
Ell
Ell
I propose mass suicide of the entire planet
@sehe I actually am a polar bear.
That's a strange word I melded there.
@Cicada :)
@DomagojPandža But I need them to gief qualification so I can get job :(
22:06
@DeadMG Well, you're not alone at least. If you thrive for something (look, I used the word thrive! I'm good at stranglish) don't let the sheeple slow you down
@Cicada I did that. Now I'mma fail :P
@DeadMG The thing is, the system is more powerful than you so you have unfortunately bend down (unless you can beat the system - which is possible, but difficult)
It's only a difficult moment
When you think about it, school systems are based around the fact you have to ask your peers (who might be complete idiots) whether or not you can do what you love.
@Cicada Bendin down is totally not my style and never was
I've actually managed to outrun uni and start my own software company. But it wasn't easy.
22:08
@DeadMG You seem to behave very similarly to a friend of mine
And I'm going to tell you the exact same thing I keep repeating to him
"Patience and time do more than strength and rage"
Cheesy translation from french.
Actually, replace rage with knowledge
and the latter is better than the former.
well, I only have so much time in the world, and I intend to not have it taken away from me for nothing.
@DeadMG Good thinking.
Ell
Ell
Knowledge is power, power corrupts. Therefore, @deadmg is evil
If you can fly on your own, do it. If you can't, be patient.
22:11
TIL: cheese can be used for either good or evil.
@Cicada See, I figure I can fly fine on my own. But you can't get a spot on the runway without some cock's permission.
Strap a bomb on the cock and contact ATC for take off on VFR, runway 9, destination unknown.
Also, disable the transponder.
I'm not sure why everyone's so eager to center their life around their job ...
@DeadMG Then play smart. Use this fine thing called hypocrisy (correctly spelled?). It does wonders.
@ScarletAmaranth Passion, dude.
Ell
Ell
If you can fly on your own, you don't need a job. You can fly ffs, become a super hero or somethibg
22:14
@DomagojPandža I actually laughed
Ell
Ell
Damn how do you edit on mobile version?
@Cicada Truth is, a little patience would do me wonders, but I just don't have it anymore. I was patient for fourteen years and then I got lumped here.
@DeadMG How much time do you get to concentrate on your own projects?
@Cicada Yeah except for some are unable to put that passion behind other aspects of life as well ...
22:16
With the uni and everything.
@DeadMG How old are you if I may ask? I'll be 21 on friday. I have no more patience either. But it would be a shame to fail after all this time. Unproductivity at its best.
well, since I stopped attending, nearly all of it :P
@Cicada Was 21 in October.
@ScarletAmaranth It all depends on people's view. Some want a familiy, some don't. Some want to love their job, some don't.
but truth be told, it's not really a shame, it's simply a fact that all the previous things have to be accounted for
@Cicada Yup, life is about priorities.
22:18
yes, it's irritating that it boiled over three years ago, but it's not particularly surprising
@DeadMG Well if you can't "prove your worth" through the system (exams), you just have to prove it in a different way. Show what you can do. You must certainly have developped quite a lot of stuff, I guess?
@Cicada I'm actually pretty proud of it. But good luck convincing a potential employer to take a look.
@DeadMG "To boil over". Wat
@Cicada Uh, it's a cooking thing. It's like leaving food too long in the oven
@DeadMG It completely depends on the company. Shopify (a canadian webshop developer) hires interns with the following test: "write an emulator for the DCPU-16 architecture". Period. That's the first filter.
Ell
Ell
22:19
I thought employers loved past work?
Actually, DeadMG, my company has a policy that is pro knowledge, without interest where one got it. Unfortunately, it's based in Croatia. I'd hire you in a heartbeat if it were a simple matter.
There must be companies like mine, that appreciate actual work, not papers with which you can wipe your ass with as far as I'm concerned.
@Ell Too many applicants, and too many HR drones.
easier to say to HR "Bin all applicants without degree"
@Cicada That shouldn't be particularly difficult.
@DeadMG You have to talk to the developers first. After all, they are the people who know what they need
@DeadMG Well, would you want to work under such people?
I mean, DCPU16, as far as I can tell, is a glorified Brainfuck
22:21
They're missing out. The greatest men in technology never even got a degree.
@DeadMG Really? For 98% of people it's an impossible task
@RMartinhoFernandes What, people without degrees?
It took me around two hours
Then decades after, they got honorary PhDs
Hipocrisy at its best.
It's nearly impossible for any guy with a degree who does not have the passion
22:21
@DeadMG No, people that tell HR to bin all applicants without a degree.
Ell
Ell
I hate hearing how quickly and easily people can programme
@RMartinhoFernandes Very true. No, I wouldn't, really, but as far as I can tell, there's not much choice in the matter
@Cicada I also think it would take a short period of time.
@DeadMG As far as you can tell. Well you don't tell quite far
@Cicada Heh. I can only search for jobs online
Imagine John Carmack applying for a job, criminal history stealing computers, uni dropout.
22:23
@DeadMG I don't know what the IT industry is in Britland
The best path for you is to make your own future.
well, I am at the moment trying to break SHA-2
Start writing games, something you like. Get your parents involved, start something.
work paused for a moment though because I'm sick
really, really must get a new damn doctor
@DeadMG Look, that friend of mine who looks quite a lot like you, applied for Shopify (that's how he showed me DCPU-16).
22:23
You can get sick? No hire.
You should not eat so much chocolate, puppy.
Here's a thing. In order to make your own future, one would need to invest a ridiculous majority of his life into it.
@DeadMG The guys at shopify were impressed and wanted to get him as intern. They even said "why don't you drop your studies to work for us?"
The mentality of NA is very different from what it is in EU
(Although his emulator sucked, because it was ruby. oh well)
@RadekdaknokSlupik I know!
(They do ruby apps so I guess it's a smart choice anyway)
22:25
Ruby ftw.
@ScarletAmaranth Once again, it depends on your priorities.
well, I bet that I could crack up a DCPU16 emulator in not a lot of time in C++.
Of course
It's dead simple
But you know how many people your age can do that?
Ridiculously few
Hi guys!
Once again see Atwood's blag
Sup brah
22:27
yeah, I've seen that stuff about the FizzBuzz test
doesn't seem to have made it over here, though
Well it's baffling (I like that word, yes)
Yet not surprising. I should try it on my classmates
I'm going to waste my time and sleep. I need to wake up fucking early. See you guys and Cicada.
Wait, no. They don't give a fuck about coding.
Thanks for the effort @RadekdaknokSlupik and good night
apparently, knowing recursion is the shit when you're a graduate
@ScarletAmaranth I'll be 20 years old in little less than two months. I founded a software company last year to formalize my work after freelancing for a few years. It's a lot of work, a lot of commitment, but the money is very good and I finally get to work on what I've always wanted - a game title. Hired a few very talented people, developing an engine, taking care of that special lady in one's life. It's not impossible. Lying in bed and complaining how hard life is won't get you anywhere.
22:29
and I'm like "What, you mean, like a simple octree?"
You can either wait for something magical to happen or get crackin'.
@DomagojPandža You have an amazing luck, you know that. The countries in which this is actually possible are less and less
@DeadMG Just an octree. "The fuck is an octree"?
@DomagojPandža dobro skazano. :)
You realize that the amount of knowledge you have
Is way over your classmates? (Well, I guess)
@Cicada Recursive spatial partitioning data structure
22:30
@DeadMG I know what it is
ah k
(Hence the quotes)
Don't waste your knowledge. Be patient. Smile around. Do what it takes to graduate and in parallel, do what you love
One thing I don't understand is that DeadMG can't get something working (in terms of business). I mean, you're a brilliant person from what I've seen thus far.
And when finally you get above the system, do what the fuck pleases you
@DomagojPandža Can't get what working?
ah, yeah
22:32
@DomagojPandža In western europe it's very difficult
@DomagojPandža How many hours a day do you work on average ? Aaand, does your work ever interrupt the "flow of your day", for instance, random phonecalls to do something, take care of this, take care of that, etc.
here's the thing
I'm actually quite immutable, in some respects
and when I have something which fits well for me, then it's fucking easymode
and when it's not, then... well, it just doesn't really happen
Well then, find things that fit well for you
But that aren't so easy mode
Give yourself some challenge
22:33
that's me tryin to break SHA-2
I wish you luck :D You're gonna need it
It depends, I have the luxury of defining the working hours, sometimes we gather at the office at night and work until we drop, I usually take my work home since I don't look at it as a job. I simply love it and so do my... Well, I hate the word employees. It's a tight group which really enjoys what they do.
I'm 5% of the way there now, and I expect to get a lot further soon
But 10 hours a day at average. ( I don't have to attend anything else )
Well, there is WWDC this year, but that isn't really work for me.
22:34
@DomagojPandža where are you from? :)
@DeadMG How are you measuring progress?
@DeadMG How are you doing that? On a mathematical basis or ?
;) Lovely country!
22:35
@RMartinhoFernandes So far, % of states proven. But soon, I'm going to start measuring it in terms of "Information which cannot be proven".
@Cicada Using a program, which I wrote myself of course because I have massive balls, to analyze it.
I am your neighbour, so to speak, BiH. ;) @DomagojPandža
Ojla! :D Quite close indeed. It's nice to see people from our corner of Europe on SO. There aren't many, perhaps one or two guys from Zagreb as far as I've seen thus far.
@DeadMG And you're succeeding so far? I mean, that algo was designed by professionals so I expect it to resist pretty well.
I think I've got it down
I've got to finish writing my next technique before I can really say, but I think it both can be done and shouldn't be too hard
That sounds horribly complex to me
22:39
It can be done, but usually there a lot of little things that need to be taken care of when considering decrypting hash functions. But fundamentally, it's nature must be invertible.
Although there are some very clogged up methods they're working on nowadays.
Not entirely, I guess? Since there's a loss of info
:D I think there is far more than that, for instance I have seen 10 people coming from our region, and all are pretty active here. :) @DomagojPandža
@Cicada Yes, but you can just make that information up.
If all you want is a collision, yes.
when determining a collision, you only need a solution, not all solutions or a specific solution
22:41
I'm pretty bad at mathematic concepts. I don't quite understand for example how come we have not yet found collisions on GUIDs or SHA2 or stuff
the point is, for some reason, I'm just only particularly productive during the night
I mean, their size is way too small for them to be "unique enough"
"way too small", lol
Are you student on FER? I have heard that FER is in the top 5 in this part of europe when it's about electrotechnics and IT. :) @DomagojPandža
(But I just suck at maths and stats)
(And C++)
22:41
They're way too big.
@Cicada What makes you say that? 256bit output is massive.
Well in my sucky mind I find that massively small
your CPU only has a 64bit address space, which is like, 10^18
and it's exponential
Yes that's the part that I don't get
so a 256bit output is 10^18 * 10^18 * 10^18 * 10^18
== 10^72
so, a pretty fuckin big range
22:43
But our world has exabytes of data
Ell
Ell
Imho, it's not the size of the hash, its what you do with it. That's what I keep telling myself at least.
3
There must be a collision somewhere
Birthday problem predicts a collision at about 2**128 objects
@Cicada That's 10^18.
exabytes are a piss in the woods compared to 10^72
but more relevantly, there are collisions- but nobody can go through hashing that much data to find one
With a non-negligible chance at about 2**110 objects.
What I don't get is
@SerenityStackHolder No, I am actually currently stabilizing the workflow at my company, but at some later point in time I'd like to formally study physics actually (astrophysics in particular). My primary field of knowledge is physics, which drags along mathematics. Programming was just a side effect of me being fascinated with virtual worlds and scientific modeling.
Since 257 bit values produce collisions on a 256 bit space
How come are there not on larger values?
@Cicada Huh?
as long as there's more input bits than output bits, then there must be a collision
22:45
There are more than one 257 bit value with same same 256 bit hash, yes.
@Cicada But no one has yet enumerated all the 257 bit values.
But not all 2**257 bit values are being used.
the "cryptographic" part of "cryptographic hash" just means that they're fucking impossible to find.
Such a task is not feasible.
I understand that but
22:45
in theory, anyway
Maybe I don't, actually.
I of course intend to attempt to do otherwise
In probability theory, the birthday problem or birthday paradox concerns the probability that, in a set of n randomly chosen people, some pair of them will have the same birthday. By the pigeonhole principle, the probability reaches 100% when the number of people reaches 366 (since there are 365 possible birthdays, excluding February 29th). However, 99% probability is reached with just 57 people, and 50% probability with 23 people. These conclusions are based on the assumption that each day of the year (except February 29) is equally probable for a birthday. The mathematics behind this pro...
speaking of which, it's time for a Cornish Pasty, bitches
22:46
@DeadMG I hope that isn't targetting me, puppy
@DeadMG The idea is that they're impossible to find in practice, actually. In theory, it's perfectly possible :)
@Cicada Why would it be targetting you?
@DeadMG I know it's not.
@DomagojPandža That's so cool. Seeing your work in the IT field, which is a side effect of your main interest physics, gives no one doubt that you are a genius in it. ;)
that's fortunate, cause I say "bitches" a lot
22:47
@Cicada He's a dog. Bitches are the most wonderful thing for him. Keep that in mind.
It's okay. I tend to use faggots quite a bunch, too
ask the robot
I just can't wrap my mind over this
I'd say, on a purely empiric basis, that there are more than 2^256 chunks of different data in this world
Collisions should be unavoidable
Maybe I just suck
@Cicada Actually, no.
@SerenityStackHolder I hate being termed a genius, I just like to do what I love without people forcing me to other sides. All that matters is having enough money to eat, sleep, raise a family and follow your interests. All you have to try and hang in there.
22:48
Or, not many more.
Lemme check again how many particles are estimated to exist in the observable universe.
What is the biggest binary space we can fill in a reasonable time?
I think it's around 10^80
@DomagojPandža Well said! :)
@RMartinhoFernandes: On it
In Big Bang cosmology, the observable universe consists of the galaxies and other matter that humans can in principle observe from Earth in the present day, because light (or other signals) from those objects has had time to reach us since the beginning of the cosmological expansion. Assuming the universe is isotropic, the distance to the edge of the observable universe is roughly the same in every direction—that is, the observable universe is a spherical volume (a ball) centered on the observer, regardless of the shape of the universe as a whole. Every location in the universe has it...
@RMartinhoFernandes What is the half of it? Do you know?
22:50
@DeadMG How did you actually get into cryptography?
Well that's quite small
10^80
Was it an accidental curiosity?
@Cicada It's not small!
@DomagojPandža I decided that it was silly that you can't invert SHA-2.
and that I could devise such an inversion
Estimated number of particles on Earth?
Wolfram doesn't understand
22:51
256-bits holds ~10^77 different values.
So, there are only a thousand times more particles in the observable universe than there are 256bit hashes.
Ell
Ell
Woah
That should make the scale of things clear.
Ell
Ell
What about sha512?
@DeadMG I hate you, now it bothers me too, can't let my work suffer though. But I'd really love to see you succeed. Keep us updated with your progress. :D
@DomagojPandža lol
I'd love me to succeed too
then I can tell my university to suck my dick
3
22:53
@Ell There are so many possible values that you could put ~10^64 hashes on each atom in the observable universe.
posted on May 28, 2012 by Scott Meyers

This is the final week for Early-Bird (i.e., discounted) registration for C++ and Beyond, the C++ conference-only-better event organized and put on by me, Herb Sutter, and Andrei Alexandrescu. Among the topics we'll address in our technical sessions are "universal references" in C++11 (a term I'll introduce, define, and, I hope motivate), using C++11 features to write error-resilient code, how

@DeadMG And your "massive balls"
When we say "massive", we meant it.
@Cicada Well, maybe not that "massive".
It's all relative
@Cicada Not really into ball-sucking. Honestly, balls are just sweaty and difficult to scratch, there's little sexy about them
Ell
Ell
So why don't we use sha522?
512
The part about scratching is so damn true.
@Ell Or whirlpool ?
@Ell Because 256 is still good enough for many purposes?
@RMartinhoFernandes there was some work in ETF in Belgrade, that any code can be broken by using advanced decrypting methods, so called DMEO( Decrypting method of energy output ) ie send some very neat and clean signal to the machine, in the forms of 2^2B,4^2B, ..., 1's or 0's ( representing binary output ) and if you get the right n-position number, it denotes with the diff overall energy output of the machine you are trying to break.
22:55
@DomagojPandža I know, right? The flesh is so loose.
@RMartinhoFernandes Will it always be?
@Cicada Not if I have anything to say about it.
@Cicada No idea. Its strength doesn't depend only on the number of possible outputs.
however, if I succeed, SHA-512 would fall to me using the same attack, I believe.
Ell
Ell
Quantum computing makes things crazy doesn't it? Is it true that you can do 2^N parallel instructions where n is the number of qbits?
22:56
Quantum computing will crash classic cryptograhy.
@Ell Yes.
@Ell You can break 15 into prime factors.
But they already have ideas for even more complex ones.
@RMartinhoFernandes Wow.
@DomagojPandža Nah. Not all algorithms have super-fast quantum equivalents. Many do, though.
22:57
@Cicada Just to give an idea of the scale of things :)
@RMartinhoFernandes I can do that myself :D 3x5, right?
@DeadMG Indeed, a bit more qualification was necessary on my part. My bad.
Quantum hardware looks difficult to implement in "traditional" computers tho
@Cicada It's nastier when I ask you to prime factor 19843925725380625018657018651056710560158601658105610560156038569345604378502682‌​0164305972672356147 though
22:58
Requires ultra low temperature, isnt it ?
@Cicada Yeah. The point is, quantum computing is still a child.
Maybe a fetus.
Or a sperm.
Maybe just finishing the wanking process. :Đ
nah, there's definitely been fertilization
@DeadMG Easy, 3x47x25981x448551644907
Ell
Ell
I don't understand why quantum computing is so good for prime jumber?
Is it just the sheer cokpuing powrr?

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