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12:19 AM
@Mysticial oh boy...
 
12:55 AM
Stupid silly folks on SO. Another day
2
 
My disk is getting full ...
 
Mine too. Let's drop those 3 FreeBSD installations I made tonight
Done.
 
I'm sad that __builtin_assume_aligned doesn't preserve type
need a __builtin_assume_aligned<T>
 
I am thinking of getting external storage and moving all the less important stuff there
 
Instead keep all your data on bitbucket
 
1:02 AM
I back all important stuff up twice ... sometimes less important once too
but for sanity purposes, some of the stuff I really should not be back up twice
I should not even keep them on my PC to start with probably
 
@sehe now wait just a minute there, that's a link back here
@EtiennedeMartel that there is some quality software
 
well, started a process to move 228GB from PC on to external harddrive
 
Common noob mistake, IO isn't saturated with a single thread. Use RoboCopy
 
who needs multithreading when you can work on multi-PC/laptops
 
user2015064
1:25 AM
Can anyone explain “Case Question” for me?
I know “Case Details”, it talks about what happened with the whole case.
“Case Question” is about the questions that arose during the case I guess?
 
1:50 AM
@LucDanton Je vois, Markov-powered traiteur ?
 
user2015064
Anyone?
 
@Mikhail You most certainly can saturate I/O to a typical hard drive with one thread. I've done it (repeatedly). In any case, starting with Windows 7 (or perhaps Vista) dragging and dropping a bunch of files can/will apparently use an IOCP (or something like that) to handle the copying. Not necessarily optimum, but at least reasonably close (whereas on NT4/Win2k/XP, decently-written code could easily plan on beating CopyFile[Ex] by a factor of at least 2).
 
pretty sure telkitty's shitposting saturates most people's I/O
 
@xersi Here is a collection of "case question"s for you to consider as examples: stackoverflow.com/search?q=%5Bc%2B%2B%5D+switch+case
 
user2015064
@Jerry I did not mean "case" keyword in C++. I am writing an essay assignment about a scandal case, and I need to follow this template :
Case Details
Case Question
Case Standard
 
1:57 AM
@JerryCoffin move ... so cut & paste
 
@xersi Since you seem to have missed my point, I'll try to be more explicit: I doubt you're going to get a meaningful answer here.
@Telkitty Moves (by default) if and only if the files are on the same logical drive. Poor design (IMO), but such is life.
 
is the following call successfully tail recursive? this occurs in insert(): current.setRight(insert(current.getRight(), data, height + 1));
 
user2015064
@JerryCoffin I am not here to ask many questions, just want to know if you can explain these terms in English better than me. So if I have better definitions of them I can write a better writing assignment.
 
woops
my message appeared twice for me there
: would the fact that the call occurs in setRight() mean there is still technically "work" to do? or not, because all that is required is simply pointing to the value received by insert().
 
@xersi I've already pointed out that it seems doubtful that you'll get a meaningful answer to this question here. If you want an answer, I'd seriously suggest looking elsewhere, because...well, it's really just not at all likely to happen here. If you want help with English for a writing assignment, you might consider some place devoted to English or writing, rather than a place that's (at least theoretically) devoted to C++.
 
user2015064
2:06 AM
@JerryCoffin Since I am a C++ programmer this is a friendly place to ask since it is a Lounge. But anyways... Even if it is doubtful you can just answer or that is fine, because I don't have much time to ask elsewhere.
 
user2015064
For me, Case Standard means It goes about if there is a certain court case or something in the past that has set a standard precedent for the situation.
 
user2015064
The remaining and my only question is Case Question. Is it about the questions that arose when the case happened?
 
@xersi If you have questions about a question, you need to ask the person who set the question to clarify. We can tell you what we thought it's right, you follow that track, then you might get zero.
 
user2015064
@Telkitty I don't demand an entire explanation. As I mentioned above, I just need to know if my explanation of Case Question is suitable.
 
user2015064
I will accept any direction from you guys, whether or not it might be wrong. It does not affect my whole writing.
 
2:22 AM
@xersi My direction would be try some place like English Language and Usage.
 
user2015064
Would be nicer if it is a chat place. But anyway...
 
user2015064
I will ask a proper question there if the needs arise.
 
@xersi so you understand the relation between 'details' and 'case details', then you should understand the relation between 'question' and 'case question'
I assume it's the main question arise from the case
 
user2015064
Yes, it could be. There should be questions talking about the case when the case happened.
 
user2015064
Thanks, it seems I have grasped the meaning of these terms.
 
user2015064
2:35 AM
Now I can continue to write a writing assignment.
 
3:05 AM
> I write this as a vegetarian (and former vegan). Do you appreciate plants? I know I sure do. Do I still kill them? Of course.
 
you can just eat the fruits without killing the plant
 
4:05 AM
 
4:19 AM
@JerryCoffin Benchmark it against robocooy copy, with /MT 64 the results may shock you!
 
4:31 AM
Also not to spout complete bullshit, a single thread can saturate a single disk, but typical software, including Windows Explorer won't.
 
@Mikhail Let's put it this way: to beat my code by even 20%, they'd have to move data to/from the disk about 19% faster than the disk's maximum speed. See the problem here? Seriously, shocking me on this front is not going to be easy--I'm already within a low single-digit percentage of the maximum that the hardware supports.
 
 
2 hours later…
6:17 AM
urrrrrhhhhhh
 
6:31 AM
Hello fellas
 
hello
 
7:19 AM
does anyone know how to tune a drone?
 
main course: tuna e drone
 
7:33 AM
my drone just flew 100 meters and into the crowd, I was horrified
didn't touch anyone though
tried to be as far away as possible
then drone failed to land
flew at 30cm high all the way across the park
crash landed on the fence
 
7:47 AM
Maybe you suck at flying?
 
I am
as a newb, it's expected
 
So don't fly them near people?
 
I was 50 meters from everyone
 
that's not nearly enough
 
it's not a military grade drone
 
7:52 AM
git gud
 
I'm not saying don't fire missiles at people, I'm saying don't fly drones near people. Any drone. Even the smallest can do a lot of damage.
 
Ven
8:02 AM
Hi.
 
sup
 
nwp
@Telkitty Maybe start with a gyro helicopter. If you let go of the controls they just hover in the air which makes them relatively easy to control.
 
I'm processing big ass logs with python
I used to use logstash for this but it turns out logstash is terrible
 
@nwp my drone has that - hovering functionality
it worked yesterday
but for some reasons I couldn't get the same thing happening today
 
nwp
was it windy?
 
8:05 AM
not really
I need to read manual again
 
Ven
@slaphappy do it in perl
; - )
 
I would sooner die
 
Hi
 
Hello
 
8:36 AM
BTW @slaphappy did you notice the new proxy restrictions?
Can't even get latex packages anymore...
 
@Rerito Handy xD
 
Yeah, they're so backwards wrt security
It's like a reminiscence of the soviet era
 
8:55 AM
@Rerito @Work?
 
@wilx yep
 
@Rerito lol
@Rerito I don't have those I'm a premium user
 
Ven
:o
 
@slaphappy So you're telling me you can download any file you want (so archives and executables)?
 
literally paid2win
 
8:59 AM
@Rerito yeah
 
@slaphappy How did you get the permissions?
Best I can do atm is raise the procedure for a subset of URL domains...
And I cba, it's so boring
It's like I'm in a Kafka book
 
I threw a tantrum
That's usually the way to go here
you need approval from BIRO and your manager and probably his manager
 
@slaphappy Yeah but AFAIK the procedure cannot be as broad as you describe: I have to fill in a list of URLs on which I'ld get access
So the generalized access you have, I am quite confident I'll never get it
 
Probably yeah
jump ship
 
9:15 AM
Flip tables (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
 
nwp
Do something really insane! Like use VS2010 at work! Oh wait...
 
I'd like to build a software company but I don't know which software needs to be made.
 
yep, something akin to LoungeCpp, Inc.
 
13 hours ago, by Luc Danton
@EnthusiasticChair ran into this while talking food with a buddy, dig a bit under the covers it gets interesting
for inspiration
 
@slaphappy I have a good idea but it might be illegal
 
nwp
9:18 AM
@slaphappy According to joel it doesn't matter. You just focus on getting the best developers at all cost and they will make something awesome because they are the best developers. I just don't quite believe that's how it works.
 
@nwp Yeah, vision and goals are so overrated
 
I have an excellent idea for a poker casino, but lack the money to get this thing started
 
@nwp It took them quite a long time to build a noticeable product imo
I don't doubt it was a great consultancy though. But that's not really what I want.
 
hello folks
will basic_string s = "haha";
be possible with c++17 ?
 
@Telkitty go on. maybe it's not - maybe we can find a way to not get caught
 
9:21 AM
Have you thought about a website that accepts the question banned students and get their homework done for them at certain price? All you have to do is to run a script that find out any homework question with net 5 downvotes and contact them and offer them an alternative solution </trollololo>
 
> students and get their homework done for them at certain price?
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb interesting question
 
yeah
 
nwp
@JohannesSchaub-litb yes (assuming it isn't a trick question)
 
there's a ton of websites doing it
 
9:22 AM
so std::string is redundant?
since it's just decltype(basic_string(""))
 
@slaphappy but do they contact question banned students from Stackoverflow
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb see for yourself
 
I've got an idea: getting binaural sound support for multimedia applications (be it games or video)
(the most obvious application being VR stuff)
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb not everything is deducible
 
nwp
@JohannesSchaub-litb Well, it is shorter, so it has some value? I don't think it makes sense to replace occurrences of std::string with std::basic_string because you gain nothing.
 
9:24 AM
is it also possible to say void f(basic_string s); f("hello") ?
 
I smell something fishy in the air :)
 
nwp
yes
 
and it would become an implicit template that can deduce from deduction guides?
because if i say template<typename C> void f(basic_string<C> s); f("haha"); wil not be accepted because the argument is not a basic_string
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb std::basic_string s; isn't allowed either
 
template placeholder type 'basic_string' must be followed by a simple declarator-id
 
9:26 AM
@JohannesSchaub-litb istr that implicit templates are a concepts thing, not C++17
 
@StackedCrooked but the function will have arguments as initializers?
perhaps we should be able to say that a function parameter should make use of deduction guides?
so the way to tell this is: if the parameter type is a template, it will make use of deduction guide and the function is an implicit template
seems to make a lot of sense
@LucDanton AFAIK it does not cover the "implicit deduction guides" proposal laid out by me
 
a lot of my programs rely on partial ordering being quite restricted, I’m not on board
ranking and the lot
 
could you provide any meaningful example for this? why using plain old std::string is not enough? :)
 
void f(std::array a);
 
@login_not_failed because then it only accepts std::string
 
9:30 AM
oh well, that particular example may not work because we can't deduce from initializer list.. scratch it. any example that you find for general deduction guides then. void f(std::tuple t);
 
@LucDanton well, you're supposed to use only std::string in your code, not everything that is underlying below it
 
compared to writing out the template argument list as <typename ...T> ... foo<T...> it provides the benefit that all implicit conversions are still supported as long as the deduction guide matchs
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb that's what I meant, yea, because string example is not pointing in the right direction
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb GCC does deduce (there’s a Standard guide for it)
@login_not_failed lol
 
@login_not_failed huh
@LucDanton huh how does it work
it can get either the type, or the size right? or does T(&t)[N] now deduce both?
 
9:32 AM
@JohannesSchaub-litb have a look
 
that's cool bro
ah that's it
 
@Telkitty I don't those people have money
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb also yes that forms deduces quite well (you’d want && though, or well an overloaded set)
 
@Rerito binaural?
 
@LucDanton IMO that would be better than what they use
 
9:34 AM
Yeah VR tech has some space available I guess
 
@slaphappy Yeah, it works when you have a headset
 
whats binoral
 
It's a particular way of modeling sound waves
 
because it would allos nested braces (if i understand correctly): array v{firstmap, {{"hello", "folks"}}}; would work
 
So that you can get the impression the sound comes from any direction (including behind you for instance)
 
9:35 AM
@JohannesSchaub-litb is that supposed to call a constructor?
 
It uses the way our ear works (and can thus only works if the user gets the sound from a headset device)
Which is relevant for VR applications
However I suspect some game studios already began doing stuff with this
 
@Rerito Isn't that called surround
 
^^ not possible with the wg21 choice
 
@slaphappy Not really
 
perhaps they aren't aware
 
9:37 AM
@LucDanton Yeah, thanks to a DR the array size is taken into account when passing an initializer list.
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb oic, there might be a DR for that already
 
@LucDanton this way all element deduction share the same target type "T", so it's allowed that some elements are non-deduced contexts which may be braced init lists
not sure.. it's some kind of magic
 
or maybe it was the other way around, where they changed from T... to T, Us... actually :(
 
The video description includes a brief on binaural audio
 
9:40 AM
@LucDanton that also has a drawback of being unsymmetric
ah i see what you mean
 
To sum up what it is, using a stereo head device, you can model a convincing 3D sound
 
my favourite form is actually Ts... using sane_common_type_t<Ts...> as final element type, which doesn’t support non-deducible inits as well
 
yeah it's unsymmetric with "T, Us..."
@LucDanton oh wait T, Us... doesn't even support nested braces, my bad
 
you’re actually asking for a lot :)
i.e. an entirely different kind of pack, like those folks that want a sum(int... xs) form
or maybe we should embrace array ref parameters heh
 
@LucDanton i sent my request to std-discussion, let's see what comes of it
 
9:48 AM
or maybe we should turn braced-lists into proper expressions huh how about that :D
 
maybe someone will slap a DR number in my face
 
tmi
 
lol
i have long wanted to see a braced init list wrapping type like tuple<...> but with intrinsic support for braced init lists that allows forwarding braced lists as braced lists for example
 
of course, actual language-level tuples with all of the goodies
 
it could have implemented those [...] = thingies
whatever they are called again
 
9:53 AM
structured bindings for real :)
 
they could have said sorry to the compiler writers and used auto { a, b, c } = ...; for structured bindings
 
- Monthly drinks
- Off site charity days
- 50% off clothes
- Prayer room
emotional rollercoaster
 
do you get to choose which clothes you take off
 
@LucDanton nice
Well they say 50% so it seems they are interchangeable
 
10:41 AM
better benefits usually translate to lower pay
either that or tougher competition
but I like how they provide both prayer room and the chance to take off 50% of your clothes ... prayer room are usually private right?
 
 
2 hours later…
12:36 PM
So, does the f(T(&t)[N]) work when passed a std::array now?
 
@EnnMichael No, AFAIK. There is no automatic conversion path from std::array to array reference.
Unless I am wrong, of course.
 
Well I think so too
 
12:54 PM
funny, took my drone to the park again at night when there is no one there, drone is behaving all well again
 
> A surprising number of American adults think chocolate milk comes from brown cows
k
 
only decide to be disobedient in front of people
evil drone
 
@Telkitty Could it be crosstalk from somebody else's controller?
 
could .. or could be wind that I didn't pay attention to
 
@Telkitty Or it could be Skynet doing its first baby steps! /o\
 
1:18 PM
@Morwenn What's the surprising number?
 
@wilx 7%
 
@Morwenn That's quite a lot.
@Morwenn Unless it is just kids.
 
> adults
 
@Shoe you on telegram then?
 
1:38 PM
@Morwenn Oh, I missed that.
 
nwp
@Morwenn Maybe they just said that because they though it was funny. I want to believe.
 
@wilx anything higher than 0, surely
 
@thecoshman Well, some people have low IQ, you can't expect them to be reasonable.
 
@wilx ah sorry, I missed the part about Americans
 
:D
Looks like the Queen has survived a meeting with out president. There will be no war with UK over dead Queen, good.
 
1:46 PM
This time ¬_¬
 
@wilx Just don't try to invade the Falklands.
 
@thecoshman Well, I hope he does not get a second chance. He should retire and die already.
@Morwenn I don't think we have means to transport our troops there. We would have to ask other NATO members to get us there.
 
xD
 
1:59 PM
@thecoshman yes
Guys, me and thecoshman are on telegram at this group: tg://join?invite=AAAAAEM7t2HbYLPSDmbI7A. If you want to hang out there, you know where to find us.
Oh crap
 
what was the oh crap about
 
The link
 
damn ... why error on info screen
 
2:06 PM
It shows the https link when you say "copy link" but then it gives you a tg link :/
 
For me too
 
error should be on error screen
took me so long to figure it out
 
When I click the link browser whines "Link not understood"
I'm being sabotaged
This is not ok
 
2:31 PM
Guys, maybe someone could elaborate: could we add last edition publication years for the C++ Book Guide? It would really let people quickly understand how "modern" C++ the particular name refers to.
Or is there rationale on why it shouldn't be done? like are years equally important for all the editions? It doesn't seem to be the case to me...
 
2:42 PM
One can argue that it depends on whether a edition has substantial addition. Or is just a reprint with a few typo's.
 
Ven
I know edition isn't a substantial lounge member.
 
Who needs books to learn C++? :p
 
That one way to read my handwriting.
books what are they?
 
@Morwenn I do :o
 
@Mellester Dead trees.
@Horttanainen Isn't trial and error enough? :o
 
2:48 PM
@Morwenn :o
 
Anyone ever walked in to a new job where the gave you book and said don't submit a piece of code before having read this?
they*
 
Ven
nope
I usually get the job when people think I'm competent enough.
 
@Mellester We usually give Effective-C++ to juniors when they come. We don't prevent them from coding though.
 
@Mellester They gave me a Python book once, but I quickly switch to internet. I don't remember going far in the book :/
 
@Mellester When I started here I did not know anything about C++. They ordered 6 books for me to read
 
2:53 PM
@Ven Good companies invest in people
 
I meant submitting of course. I doubt anyone would stop a coder from experimenting on his own env. Because that how you truly learn.
 
Ven
@slaphappy that's a very bland statement tbh
preventing them to code before they read a book isn't what I call "investing in people"
 
Some comp are very bland
 
Ven
add some sauce
 
@Ven I agree that's dumb
 
2:55 PM
This is it. I am done. I am off to a beer. Goodbye guys!
 
@Ven I'm hungry
 
Sorry for the gratuitous salt I follow 3 chats at once and follow from a distance :P
 
Ven
;)
 
Like good companies do?
 
Well, the newer version that is a slight update is OK if it still corresponds to the latest rules, and it doesn't make sense to publish a new version that is focused around old stuff.
The more important point is that people can quickly decide how deeply back in time they want to dive in C++ :D
 
3:20 PM
David Robinson on June 15, 2017

Do you use tabs or spaces for code indentation?

This is a bit of a “holy war” among software developers; one that’s been the subject of many debates and in-jokes. I use spaces, but I never thought it was particularly important. But today we’re releasing the raw data behind the Stack Overflow 2017 Developer Survey, and some analysis suggests this choice matters more than I expected.

There were 28,657 survey respondents who provided an answer to tabs versus spaces and who considered themselves a professional developer (as opposed to a student or former programmer). Within t …

9
^^ ahahaha
 
@Mysticial Well, it's not a surprise really. People that choose spaces over tabs can be seen as the most pragmatic ones.
 
whats pragamtic about spaces?
 
Tabs would be the character to use for indentation (which is also customizable), but some editors and languages don't behave well with tabs.
Not to mention that github defaults to 8 spaces for a tab. wtf
At least it used to IIRC
 
That might explain the wealth gap. Dev's that know archaic languages without good tab support make more money
arkham's razer
 
Notepad does 8-space tabs.
MSVC does 4-space tabs and defaults to tabs.
 
3:29 PM
MSVC with C# is a real beauty to use
I'm not even kidding
I used it at work, it was a joy
 
I find myself needing to find/replace a lot of tabs each time I do a fresh MSVC installation because I forget to set it to spaces and don't always immediately notice the tabs until later.
 
Why spaces?
 
I agree MSVC is a joy
 
@Shoe Because I use spaces and not tabs?
 
Why?
 
3:30 PM
I think I made the switch from mixed to 100% spaces about 10 years ago.
 
I actually can't remember good arguments for it
@Mysticial Did your salary also increase?
 
whenever I use spaces I end up always overshooting a space or two every dozen lines it annoys me more than it should
 
@Shoe I switched because editors weren't always consistent with the sizes.
 
@Mellester I'm p sure you can map the tab key to 4 spaces
There you go, I remember it had something to do with editors support
 
Why would i do that?
 
3:33 PM
To be consistent and not overshoot a space or two every dozen lines
 
Then I could just ease my editors build in sport for switching tabs into spaces after coding?
use*
I gad to right a parser for my c++ course that did just that.
had*
Anyway ever sins I watched silicon valley, I cant hold a conversation about tabs versus spaces going for long so lets leave it at that.
 
no I think we should proceed
 
@Shoe No, because I was still in school and was making zero. (negative if you include tuition)
 
too late to stop this very important topic at Friday's afternoon
 
I press tab but spaces happen
???
 
3:43 PM
MSVC with C#?
 
@Horttanainen I press beer, but beer happens
 
@login_not_failed Me too! High five!
 
Marston's oyster stout here :3
 
pilsner urquell
 
btw, anyone here plays games like TIS-100 or Shenzhen I/O, or anything similar?
 
3:51 PM
been willing to
 
That TIS-100 trailer :D
 
it's so lit
 
I lol'd at the end
I am bit drunk so dont give me any ideas
 
it's an array of small cpus with 1 active register, 1 for storage only, and you have a hard limit of 15 lines of codes in each of them, also the assembler is very limited
pretty fun if you want to solve something meaningless >:3
 
It looks fun
@login_not_failed What are the tasks given in that Shenzen?
 
3:58 PM
@Horttanainen you have to do almost the same, but instead of small array of cpu, you combine various devices together
some devices have analog input, some don't have it, and tasks differ from blinking fake LED to draw something on a screen module
 
Okay
That tis trailer made me laugh again
 
also, in these games you have a small documentation pdf that you may print out, and it looks almost as good as real doumentation — people from outside can't tell the difference :D
 
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