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00:00 - 18:0018:00 - 00:00

00:05
Yeah:
1. No 14 - 18 core models until next year. (HCC dies for HEDT aren't ready).
2. Pigeon Poop
3. Probably no full-throughput AVX512.
I'm heavily debating whether I want to grab the 8-core model do to what I need. They trade it for the 16-core model next year. Or just go the server route.
Xeo
Xeo
00:17
voi @Mysticial
what's the state of your anime list
Busou: 1 behind
Granblue: 3 behind
Frame Arms: 2 behind
Clockwork Planet: caught up
Alice to Zouroku: 2 behind
Xeo
Xeo
and I guess... nothing for the rest?
Yeah, there's several I haven't started yet.
Xeo
Xeo
like, all the good ones
But I am watching them at a rate that's slightly faster than they're coming out.
Since I didn't really start watching this season until 5 weeks in.
00:40
Big(oted) if true.
00:57
Hey what's up
@Mysticial Hey, you worked at YouTube and a few other places, right? How do performance reviews work over in those companies?
Once a year, you need to evaluate yourself and those around you. List your projects and accomplishments. And do the same for the people you are evaluating.
The rest is all management.
@Mysticial So... no metrics?
metrics are typically bullshit
You'll never know your value until you get a different offer for another job.
mmm I see
I've just started and it seems all very "touchy-feely"
Also, if where i'm working now is representative of how other teams operate... maybe there is indeed a need for better SDE tooling
@VermillionAzure Yes, it's very subjective.
01:04
@Mysticial BTW did you ever see formal methods or more integrated documentation systems used anywhere?
Can you be more specific?
@Mysticial e.g. Apparently AWS used formal methods for a few things, like DynamoDB
What's "formal methods"?
In computer science, specifically software engineering and hardware engineering, formal methods are a particular kind of mathematically based techniques for the specification, development and verification of software and hardware systems. The use of formal methods for software and hardware design is motivated by the expectation that, as in other engineering disciplines, performing appropriate mathematical analysis can contribute to the reliability and robustness of a design. Formal methods are best described as the application of a fairly broad variety of theoretical computer science fundamentals...
some mathematical proof?
Oh yeah. Basically it's bullshit because it takes too much resources.
So nobody does it.
Unless you're NASA.
01:06
@Mysticial But why is it still considered "bullshit?" What parts of it are expensive?
I mean, what about fearless concurrency?
@VermillionAzure If you need to put a mathematical proof on every single function to show that satisfies its pre/post conditions (assuming you've even defined them), you're never gonna get anything done. And you certainly won't meet whatever deadline you're given.
@Mysticial Right, but I'm just wondering if it would be helpful to automatically squeeze out everything from the type system and structure of the program to make the process painless and even better... useful for automatic documentation and training for newbies
This sort of ideological programming is more suited for hobby projects where you have infinite time and no deadlines.
@Mysticial Mmm, right... I guess I can dream and do research...
01:21
@VermillionAzure it’s not considered bullshit
@LucDanton Well, how? (And I'm not arguing against you I just don't know)
how what
@LucDanton How are formal methods used?
What have you personally heard about it?
@VermillionAzure depends on the method; read books
01:37
@Mysticial Right, I guess those kinds of costs don't matter when not doing it means you might lose your satellite.
@EtiennedeMartel or your mars rover
Or your deep space probe.
I guess the worst is realizing there's a bug in your code when the probe has been in space for 10 years.
And now you can't get the data back.
01:52
@Code-Apprentice I know, I use Integer.toString(i) in my code. But still ... i.toString() seems to be more satisfactory & it's not just because that I have to type a few more letters :p
02:10
@Telkitty I understand what you mean. The separation between primitives and objects can be frustrating. One thing I like about python is that everything is an object.
02:41
my $myName
my my
Ell
Ell
02:54
@VermillionAzure it's not bullshit. But it is expensive because proving things takes time
And it's a skill which most programmers don't have
03:13
crash upon arrival, lovely
hmmm
I wonder if you can use std::variant with brace-initialization
 
2 hours later…
04:58
received a call on tablet, not sure how to pick it up
 
1 hour later…
05:58
@VermillionAzure yes, fyi
 
3 hours later…
08:37
@Telkitty If it's too heavy for you, maybe you need some physical therapy, (or a lighter tablet).
therapist becomes horrible words if there is a space between e and r
@Telkitty I fell for that - I checked!
horrible words if it's a tab too :p
08:53
@fredoverflow Their critique is non-functional.
0
Q: Calling gnu plot from C++, and interact with it through my application

user8469759I've implemented a small algorithm in C++ where basically given some input parameters a set of other parameters is produced in order to draw lines. Such lines are saved in a file, and usually I call gnuplot to plot these lines. I'm new to gnuplot, therefore I don't know if what I want to do is p...

@user8469759 nope it's not how it works
what do you mean?
you're not getting answers here
because of the room? because of my question?
09:06
teh room
too late
09:34
It's not too late to open the question and downvote it if it's bad.
Oh.. it is, in fact, too late.
yotony
I'm still alive just about
being alive is important
took a day off work as I am about to enjoy some unpleasant dental treatments
WOOF! WOOF! MOTH... I hate moths. They flit around my display, distracting me:(
09:40
@Puppy ughh, I hate dental.
well really it's 100% my own dumb fault
I could have taken better care of my teeth for like, the previous two decades
oh puppy
or slapped my dentist and found a new one faster when they could not fit me in to fix a chip in a tooth
instead I waited too long and now I'm actually gonna lose it
oh well
09:43
@Puppy so you gonna be a toothless dog, all bark and no bite
nah, I got 31 more ;p
and surprisingly, 29 of them don't need filling
I went to the dentist a few days ago, and he literally had nothing to do.
On the other, I make sure to brush my teeth, even when I wake up in the sofa at 2am and remember that I haven't brushed them yet, even though I only want to crawl to my bed and resume sleeping.
Ven
Ven
10:01
Hi
Hey :)
Ven
Ven
How are you?
@Ven Fine, and you?
Ven
Ven
Recovering :)
From? :o
Ven
Ven
10:05
Uncon
Oh, of course. How was the drinking? :D
Ven
Ven
Good. well @Ell would say it was a bit too heavy :P
I would have laughed at that a few months ago, but I can't hold my alcohol as well as I used to now that I started drinking less ^^'
I need a sign like this:
backyard protected by bird of prey with sharp beak and claws
enter at your own risk
10:26
Our full album is finally on YouTube :D
6
 
1 hour later…
11:44
@LucDanton what are you trying to say
@Mysticial depending on the cost of Xeon workstation motherboards... I may go this route, because beyond 16gb of ram I'd much rather have ECC
12:33
I think that my mouse just died. Using a touchpad instead is so fun...
12:44
At least it's only your mouse, it's not your cat :p
Even my goldfish is still alive.
13:05
@PrasinShrestha validation is always an expected error, you're checking for it. An unexpected error would be something like stdin closing. — Mgetz 1 min ago
user1804599
I want to synthesize honey.
13:22
so GitHub paused electron conference
because all chosen submissions were by men
Why are you so comfortable expressing sexism? You found the best presenters w/o considering their gender, but you're unhappy they're men.
"gender equality" in 2017 in a nutshell
@BartekBanachewicz the current problem with liberalism, too concerned about the appearance of things to pay attention to the reality. The primary issue here isn't that the results were all men, it's probably low participation by women
exactly
they're solving the wrong problems the wrong way
and obv. any criticism of that decision is immediately responded to with "you sexist misoginist patriarchy-promoting male cisgender pig"
@BartekBanachewicz the other problem with liberalism, they automatically resort to exclusion when criticized
it's not about liberalism at all btw
it has nothing to do with liberal world views
anyway it's super annoying seeming otherwise reasonable people getting way too much gulp of gender equality and spilling it all over themselves
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz I read election conference and thought lolwtf
user1804599
13:31
as long as it bugs the sjws it's good and fun and great
user1804599
the more butthurt the better
14:01
@sigbjornlo well, for me it's worse, it just 404s (part 2 gives me the "Something went wrong" indeed). LiveCoding has chosen to go the "nagging" route, instead of "free content creation" route. Too bad (though I still got a free T-shirt out of it). I'll bookmark this, so that I might just add a proper answer here instead. — sehe 22 secs ago
@Prismatic It was nice while it lasted
@Morwenn that's because you haven't figured out how to move the cursor with it
@sehe More like the cursor hasn't figured out how to move itself.
@sehe Yeah, that's so bad.
But the writing was on the wall. Whoever uses "C/C++" seriously is not to be trusted.
14:18
@EtiennedeMartel I'm tempted to introduce this as a tag that automatically blackholes the question
@EtiennedeMartel you managed to verbalize a pretty crucial idea in a compact form, I have to remember your exact wording now :)
I have simple, fasyt questions. Can i use notatnion like void foo(int a) {int tab[a];}? I know that i cant return this. But this is fine? Every function call, i have diffrent space on function stack?
Yes.
If you don't put the static keyword in front of it, you get a different array every time. Also, arrays of non constant length is a nonstandard extension.
Thans. :) Im ony fear abaut jump over stack. I alway make malloc in this case.
3
So thans again.
@KirkBrodie are you coding C or C++?
they are NOT the same
14:29
@sehe oh hey, I have the same problem (AST annotation with position) in my parser
specifically how to avoid polluting the AST itself
still haven't found a non-terrible way and I don't feel like doing the terrible way just eyt
Looks like libstdc++ is implementing a micro-optimization that I suggested as an LWG issue a few months ago. Their solution is slightly different because they cheat with a specific compiler built-in, and thus propose to NAD the issue D:
Police Dog Mako takes down alleged reckless driver ... somewhat wrong title, but at the end, the dog passionately jumped on to the fugitive, that was so hot
@Mgetz Looks like C, honestly. VLAs are legit in C99, after all.
@EtiennedeMartel optional in C11 IIRC
@BartekBanachewicz What do you mean, polluting the AST itself?
14:48
How do you even pollute an AST? Is it the same as with any tree?
@BartekBanachewicz are you using X3?
@EtiennedeMartel lel - nice sneer if a bit superficial
@sehe I stopped respecting them when they started spamming my inbox.
@sehe nope
@Puppy making every node definition have the position as well
15:06
there's nothing polluting about that
the whole point of an AST is to parse it from some string/stream input, so having the position in the input in the AST is just sensible
eh
dunno
it just feels clunky having to repeat it for every node
@BartekBanachewicz You don't repeat it for every node, since every node has different things it needs to keep track of.
e.g. function calls track commas and brackets, binary ops track the operator
as well as operands
um, but will those be different type than just "SourceRange"?
I mean I wouldn't expect e.g. a function call store positions of its arguments
every single non-whitespace character of the input should have its location tracked in the resulting AST
15:13
f( x , y )
|--------|   -- Call
  |-|        -- Var "x"
      |-|    -- Var "y"
@Puppy yeah, but the call itself is just interested about where it starts and ends, and the parts that it's made of keep track of themselves, like above
@BartekBanachewicz You don't need to track the parts that are distinct AST nodes.
you need to trac kall the other parts, though, like the parens.
they're useful for things like syntax highlighting and error reporting
@EtiennedeMartel they did? Maybe you should have been a contributor :) They never spammed me. They just started nagging, and then deleting my content.
@sehe Amazing business model.
15:23
Feb 13 '16 at 14:27, by sehe
Oh cool. I became Mod on livecoding. Shame I don't really find time much lately
On the plus side, they made me a mod (lol) and sent me a T-shirt.
It's a good shirt
user1804599
lol
user1804599
pic
15:48
I took an online gender role test for shit and giggles.
Apparently I'm 14% masculine and 25% feminine.
Does that make me 39% human?
The test says it makes me undifferenciated-androgynous x)
@Mgetz I've only ever had an issue once with memory that didn't involve overclocking. And that was with my laptop with the original 16GB it came with. I've never had (non-overclocking) issues with my other boxes (running 32GB, 64GB, and 128GB) beyond the initial purchasing incompatibilities.
Back in the days people say that memory errors are 1 bit/4GB/hour or something. And that having 64 GB of memory without ECC is suicide since the MTTF would be like a few minutes. But obviously, you can't sell memory that fails every few minutes, so they make them more reliable (per bit) as the sizes go up.
@Morwenn That's quite a deal, being 61% off.
I can't count.
@Mysticial I live in colorado, cosmic rays are a thing here
@Mgetz oh ok. :)
16:04
@Mysticial I cannot imagine trying to run servers on the top of a peak (for say a telescope) without ECC
it's not that bad here, you only usually notice issues if you've had long uptimes (a week or two)
Have you ever had problems with memory errors? Or are just speculating that you might?
@Mysticial I have, as I said, they are rare but do happen on a pretty consistent basis here
the higher the altitude the more likely they become because of higher background radiation
also the fallout from the various Nuclear tests doesn't help
16:07
but last I checked the number of servers running on peaks in utah was low
nwp
nwp
Today we learned: Fallout is much less fun in real life
It's also incredibly unfun if it's made by Bethesda. So imagine if Bethesda made Fallout in real life.
That'd be the worst.
@nwp it doesn't affect me as much here in Denver, but the western slope got quite a bit. They even did a nuclear test up there "Atoms for Peace"
Project Rulison, named after the rural community of Rulison, Colorado, was an underground 40-kiloton nuclear test project in the United States on September 10, 1969, about 13 kilometres (8 mi) SE of the town of Grand Valley, Colorado (now named Parachute, Colorado) in Garfield County. The location of "Surface Ground Zero" is 39°24′19.0″N 107°56′54.7″W. The depth of the test cavity was approximately 8,400 feet below the ground surface. It was part of the Operation Mandrel weapons test series under the name Mandrel Rulison, as well as the Operation Plowshare project which explored peaceful engineering...
that said the most significant source of fallout was Sedan:
Storax Sedan was a shallow underground nuclear test conducted in Area 10 of Yucca Flat at the Nevada National Security Site on 6 July 1962 as part of Operation Plowshare, a program to investigate the use of nuclear weapons for mining, cratering, and other civilian purposes. The radioactive fallout from the test contaminated more US residents than any other nuclear test. The Sedan Crater is the largest man-made crater in the United States, and is listed on the National Register of Historic Places. == Effects == Sedan was a thermonuclear device with a fission yield less than 30% and a fusion yield...
I have a feeling that living in an area of nuclear fallout has more consequences than just memory errors in your ram.
@Mysticial usually
16:18
@Mgetz This sounds somewhat suspect to me. I lived at 7000 feet elevation for years, and never had a memory problem that I have any reason to believe was caused by cosmic rays. I was also involved (a little) with a machine next to the antenna farm on Cheyenne Mountain (a tad under 10,000 feet). It was pretty undependable at first, but that was due almost entirely to its supply of power.
tbh the altitude makes a bigger difference than the fallout
@JerryCoffin I've definitely experienced it, it's not stop errors but rather corruption of system functionality that I've seen.
@Mgetz Is it just one particular machine? Or on all your machines?
@Mysticial Multiple, I usually solve this by just shutting them down completely or rebooting on a scheduled basis. Mind you where I live has Radon issues too...
Cheyenne Mountain gets hit with serious thunderstorms a lot, so they did massive work on surge suppression. Just for grins we hooked up some test equipment to the power coming out of a normal "surge suppressor" power strip once. It was essentially destroyed (no longer suppressing surges to any noticeable degree) in about two days.
@JerryCoffin it would seem to me that you have a more destructive hazard there than bit flips
16:23
I just finished counted my list. And I have a sample size of 14 for the past 15 years living in California and Illinois. Only one had stock memory instability. (but about 1/3 had overclocked memory instability)
Actually two of those don't count since they are servers with ECC. But neither of those reported any memory errors in the BIOS logs.
That said I don't think it's something you'd see in general every day use unless the computer has been up for ages
I usually have around 3 machines up 24/7: (1 laptop, main desktop, and a compute server running automated testing.
The compute server being typically running 100% CPU with heavy ram usage.
16:41
@Mgetz Oh, it could be destructive all right. Saw a piece of Romex wire that somebody had hooked up in a hurry, without any shielding around it. Apparently took a direct strike, because there was a section that had simply vaporized...
@JerryCoffin Yikes, I hope that wasn't attached to structure, particularly wooden structure
@Mgetz No--that was probably the problem--it had been run in a hurry (with no conduit around it) just laying on the ground, as basically an "extension cord". If it had been in a building, the building (and its lighting conductors) would undoubtedly have absorbed the strike. Was fixed by replacing the Romex, and putting well-grounded conduit around it.
@JerryCoffin in that case I'm wondering if it wasn't the capacitance that caused the flashover. Romex isn't designed for that kind of use.
@R.MartinhoFernandes sent you pm on discord btw
Grounding was a big problem though. A typical house (for example) has a grounding stake that's around four or five feet long, with all but six inches or so buried. Up on Cheyenne Mountain, there simply wasn't (even close to) that deep of soil--a fair amount was exposed granite, and where there was soil it was typically only a few inches deep. They had a ground I was told was good, but I'm not sure what it was connected to.
16:53
@JerryCoffin And yet here in downtown Chicago, there's plenty of tall lightning rods sitting around.
Some taller, some shorter. You knew the shorter ones were old because they were tallest at the time and needed them. Now they don't get hit anymore.
@JerryCoffin I'd imagine they were driven a few feet into the rock
@Mysticial Oh, you need lightning rods (or similar) as well--here I'm talking about the next step in the circuit, where you connect the lightning rod to the ground.
ironic how people don't know that lightning rods are actually there to dissipate charge to prevent a strike, not be a strike target
@Mgetz Problem is that rock isn't much of a conductor. From some comments, I got the impression (never confirmed) that it ran a ways along the ground, with short stakes every few feet, or something on that order.
@Mgetz I thought lightning rods were to attract lightning so it strikes (and discharges) through it as opposed to the more vulnerable buildings around it.
16:57
@Mgetz what do you mean by 'deisipate'?
@Mysticial as a last resort, but no the purpose of a lightning rod is basically dissipate the capacitance of the building
@thecoshman negate the difference in charge
then why are they insulated and connected to ground?
@thecoshman my understanding (potentially wrong) is that's to protect if there is a strike
The point of them is that they provide a low resistance path for the charge so that it goes through them rather than the building
They are not a preventative measure
@thecoshman except the conductors aren't really large enough for that sort of hit
17:01
@Mgetz hence why they usually only handle one hit
Which is fine, unless the X Men are trying to tear down the building.
@thecoshman that would seem problematic to me in a lightning storm
but it's better that than the building get hit, which almost certainly contains tiny pockets of water that if the energy is allowed to flow through, spontaneously boil and blow out chunks of the building
@Mysticial That was the original intent, and they do work for that. It's a large part of why they're so heavy duty (usually an inch or more in diameter, all the way from the rod down to the ground). But, the rod also has a sharp point on the end, which helps concentrate charge at one point, so difference between the rod and the air is minimized.
@Mgetz What are the odds of lightning striking twice at the same point?
17:03
@rubenvb depends on the differential in charge
@rubenvb Extremely high, as a matter of fact. The same things that lead to it hitting a particular point generally remain operative, so hitting (at least very close to) the same point again is quite likely.
Right. I got to those same conclusions right after posting that message :p
I still think we should focus all the effort we're now putting into nuclear fusion, into using lightning as a power source.
With that budget, We would've gotten there ages ago.
erm
@thecoshman That depends on how close of a hit you're talking about. Most probably can't withstand very many truly direct hits, but it doesn't take a direct hit to start a building on fire. Lightning rods can withstand a lot of near misses that would do quite a bit of damage to the building.
I see nothing in lightning that makes it a useful power source
17:07
But no, smashing two hydrogen isotopes together so closely that their nuclei fuse is sooooo much more likely to work.
@Puppy Granted, we need storage capacity.
@rubenvb It's more than that.
@Puppy it's got a giddy amount of energy. it's just a trifle hard to collect
lightning is inherently unreliable as a source since you can't make it rain or thunder
and many places go without lightning for long periods of time
it's been months since a lightning storm here
I don't think the total average wattage is very high at all
@Puppy some areas have very high rates of lightning, and with enough storage you can wait between storms
@thecoshman Yes, but the economics of power sources for a few areas is very poor.
very high R&D costs, no economies of scale, etc.
17:08
@Puppy that's also an issue, very high voltage, but I think fairly low current
for fusion power, once we crack that, we can deploy to anywhere on the globe with the same technologies.
@Puppy How long has it been since you split an atom there (wherever your "here" is)? Yet you're still typing on the magical electronic machine.
@rubenvb Sometimes in the dark of night, I think the same thing. But then the sun rises, and I'm reminded that it really does work pretty dependably. :-) Practical power generation is currently based on fission, not fusion, though...
globally, sure, but try be there for each of them
17:09
@rubenvb What? I don't understand.
@Puppy power can be transported from places that produce it to places that don't produce it was my point.
@rubenvb power transport is only so practical
@rubenvb Right, it can be, but now you're talking about trying to power tremendously large areas.
@thecoshman Lightning is basically just solar power concentrated into a small area and time. It's much more effective to collect the solar power directly.
People, remember, we'd have the complete fusion research budget to solve these problems. That ought to cover some party trips to the tropics while we're at it.
17:11
@JerryCoffin as I said, trifle hard to collect
it's unsolvable because lightning simply doesn't produce enough wattage.
Hmm Puppy is right.
5
Q: How much energy is in a lightning strike?

Friend of KimAccording to Wikipedia an average lightning has 1TW, the whole world used 16TW in 2006. (I suppose this means the same as 16TWh in one year?) Sometimes the lightning reaches 100kA. This peak last for 30 microseconds. Does this mean that you get 100TW in 30 microseconds, and this is enough to powe...

It's actually a ridiculously small amount of energy.
I'm disappointed.
that's actually much bigger than the Wikipedia article I read, quoting 500MJ for a lightning strike
oh, if the 1TW is an average for a lightning strike lasting a whole second, they might be about the same
in fact
wattage is just a really dumb way of measuring the power of an essentially discrete power source that is only on for tiny fractions of a second in a completely uncontrollable way.
maybe if you averaged it over entire years and such
17:14
Yes I think most of us know that watts aren't units of energy, but ` Ws` are ;)
yeah
so lightning, not even remotely gonna cut it as a power source, unfortunately
we need something we can scale up to a much larger scale
and also ideally situate in less pleasant environments like submarines and spacecraft
The ScienceAlert article seems to suggest there's much more power in the strike in any case.
Maybe just pure electron momentum
pretty sure that our current fusion technologies would not even remotely fit but conceptually future ones might do
Instead of current.
I'd love to work on fusion research. Too bad it's one cesspool of military interests, geopolitical conflicts and way too much engineering.
It just needs more elegance and maths.
nah
the sciencealert article is pretty poorly written since they don't really present any final conclusions in useful terms
e.g. they say "Lightning may be 1TW" with no mention of how long the strike actually lasts
17:19
Hmm the author's only listed article is exacltly that one.
And he's supposedly an associate professor.
Weird University that is.
Hmm his Google scholar seems to have more articles. None actually related to the present topic though.
Also: Clang/C2 is almost as sucky a compiler as MSVC.
And CMake sucks at using Clang on Windows.
If I tell it to do VS with the LLVM toolset and clang-cl, it passes GNU-style arguments. If I tell it to create MinGW makefiles and use the GNU-style Clang driver, it passes VS arguments.
WTF?
I believe the technical term is "waddafuq"
@Puppy "waddafuq" looks like an x86 instruction: Wide add aligned to float unsigned quad word.
15
anyone knows how /volatile:ms (VC++) affects generated code?
@Abyx Doesn't that put in read/write barriers so it essentially functions as a std::atomic?
@Abyx Release/Acquire semantics, etc.
17:44
5
Q: Does MS-specific volatile prevent hardware instructions reordering

FrozenHeartFrom the documentation: Microsoft Specific When the /volatile:ms compiler option is used—by default when architectures other than ARM are targeted—the compiler generates extra code to maintain ordering among references to volatile objects in addition to maintaining ordering to refe...

yeah, I can read MSDN
@thecoshman It's not just a matter of being hard to collect. It's a matter of collecting only a small fraction of what's available, then concentrating it in a way that also makes it much more difficult to harvest. It's pretty much a Rube Goldberg kind of thing, where you're using the most complex possible method to do a simple task.
but I couldn't write a code which would compile differently
17:46
@rubenvb what's a "barrier"? [slm]fence?
Read. The. Docs.
@Abyx I honestly have no idea what it exactly is.
But what Puppy said.
well of course it makes sense on ARM
When the /volatile:ms compiler option is used—*by default when architectures other than ARM are targeted*—the compiler generates extra code to maintain ordering among references to volatile objects in addition to maintaining ordering to references to other global objects.
but I've got an impression that it could affect x86
yes, that's about defaults
17:48
@Abyx That implies that /volatile:ms is not the default on ARM and thus using it on ARM will give you different result.
then why such switch exist for x86 ?
they could've make it ARM-only
lol
And regulators at the Food and Drug Administration? They, too, deserved a round of anatomically challenging self-fulfillment.
There's never been any guarantee that volatile inserts barriers.
Even on x86
MS did
Well yes, and now it seems they don't, not without this switch.
user1804599
17:53
How dangerous is swallowing oobleck?
user1804599
It's not toxic but it gets solid when pressure is applied.
@rightfold Please don't try it.
the heck is "barrier"? isn't is some compiler abstraction?
Is there any rule forbidding me taking the address of a specialized template class's member function?
I get 0x1
@Abyx No. It's a real thing.
user1804599
17:55
@rubenvb Is it static?
@rightfold No
@Puppy the real things are the *fence instructions
But 0x1 also seems to be the address of a normal class's member function.
@rubenvb Address of a member function is not actually an address to VM but a descriptor of sort.
So my problem must be somewhere else.
17:55
you can also prefix some instructions to include fences of various kinds
@rubenvb how'd you get a number from a pointer-to-member?
@wilx Right, so it seems.
@Abyx std::cerr << &class_name::member_function_name
@rubenvb IIRC it is something like pointer to VMT or type_info and some offset.
I know, not portable blabla I'm debugging.
@rubenvb isn't it just bool?
17:56
@rubenvb PTMFs are usually just offets into some static table.
@Abyx hmm might be.
I mean it converts to bool
and also iostreams don't really output them in a useful test
True true, let's convert it to void* first.
you can't
pointer-to-member is a struct with 1-3 fields
17:57
Yeah, well, debugging purposes.
trying to see if information gets lost somewhere
the Standard does not really permit any kind of introspection on PTMFs, in part because some implementations like MSVC have several different implementations that can all be used in parallel
ah dammit.
cast it to char* and print as bytes
bytes2hex((char*)p, sizeof(p))
Hmm I know they were very special, just not non-ostream special.
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