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13:09
@ProblemSlover This looks exactly like Slack, no?
@R.MartinhoFernandes but way lighter
Yeah, HN doesn't know what "killer" means.
and you can ideploy it within minute or less,.. it uses embedded nosql db
But Slack has no deployment at all, no?
hey it's closed source
anyway
I'im not going to use either of both
so I don't give a shit which one is better
13:16
Yeah, but when was the last time being open-source ended up being a killer feature?
do your research.
@ProblemSlover NoSQL DB, no, thank you.
@ProblemSlover There's a difference between being better and "killer".
@wilx It's a feature! (who the fuck cares, right?)
Ah, no, they list it as benefit, not feature.
(Benefit for whom, is the question)
and looks like slack doesn't offer self hosted options
@ProblemSlover That's what I meant by no deployment at all.
13:21
It's the fuck off to many startups who don't want to bve dependent from the third party cloud service providers.
due to security concerns
Maybe representative of the HN audience.
But the success of cloud service providers runs counter to the idea that self-hosting is a killer feature.
Slack sucks, though.
One of my coworkers insists on having his own email server.
I don't see the point. But hey, to each his own.
13:39
@wilx The result of the choice persists, but the choice itself was made and then done. I.e., you made the choice once, and then it was done. You (probably) didn't revisit that choice on a regular and ongoing basis since.
@JerryCoffin OK. This always confuses me.
@wilx English confuses nearly everybody (to the point that even the specialists in the field routinely disagree over the proper way to write sentences).
@R.MartinhoFernandes That depends. For some kinds of things, being even slightly better can mean nearly immediately taking over virtually the entire market. For some other things, network effects, familiarity, etc., allow technically inferior products to remain viable and even dominant nearly forever (e.g., by far the most convincing argument for using Java is that everybody uses Java).
@JerryCoffin Exactly.
@Rerito Truly awesome music. And for a rarity: no, I don't just mean it's really good. I mean that all these decades later I still literally stand in awe of what they accomplished (and yeah, when I use "literally", don't mean "figuratively" either).
nwp
nwp
14:10
I may have lost my taste for music.
Haven't listened to any for quite a while and the music I liked is meh at most now.
@nwp I felt the same for something like 4 years
nwp
nwp
The only music I do still enjoy is accompanying music for movies, not sure how much of that is the moment and how much is the actual music.
!
I also started listening soundtracks when I started to listen music again!
I still enjoy soundtracks the most
14:36
@JerryCoffin The live version from the fillmore is even more awesome than the studio recording
14:51
@R.MartinhoFernandes nor "transpiler"
Man, smokers are such idiots.
One of my friends "quit" smoking a while back (in quotes because in reality it means he didn't smoke for a period of time when there were no cigarettes around him), and now as often happens got back to it, but he only smokes two a day or something like that and is now saying stuff like "I see no reason why going at this rate would do anything bad to me".
It's amazing how people can convince themselves of the silliest things.
From what I've seen around me, quitting somking is hard.
So people try to find excuses instead.
@Morwenn I totally agree with that. I just keep being surprised by the excuses.
"It's hard" seems like a perfectly reasonable excuse to me.
To me too, but they can't use it to stop trying, so other excuses pile up.
Actually, "it's hard" seems like a better way to make it easier than trying to convince yourself of some of the nonsense they come up with.
15:00
@R.MartinhoFernandes coming up with excuses is easy
@R.MartinhoFernandes Have you seen how many people don't seem to understand how hard it is around people trying to quit? They just keep saying, "quit already", "smoking is bad for you", etc... Even if you agree, you'll try to find other excuses :/
@ratchetfreak Coming up with decent excuses is NP-complete.
@Morwenn Yeah, I actually never tell my friends that.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Me neither, but I often see that around me, be it friends, colleagues, etc...
At least not until they start saying it's not bad. Can't let them be wrong on outside the Internet.
People trying to hide their cigarettes, as if it would help, etc...
15:03
@Morwenn There are no decent excuses, so, not even that.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, but them saying it isn't bad is probably a byproduct of other people's behaviour.
@Morwenn I think convincing them otherwise helps more than letting them be does, so that's why I do it.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh, same here, but most people I know just already acknowledge it's bad for them. They just can't seem to stop. But the behaviour of other people around them doesn't seem to help much :/
well, with a decent willpower it's not that hard (I did it), often you just see no point in quitting
because it's a quite decent time filler and often an invitation to chat with somebody
and everyone smoking knows that it's bad for them from the start
@login_not_failed That's not true.
15:09
so it's only annoying when people are telling it to you repeatedly :D
@R.MartinhoFernandes well, maybe it is in my case
Well, maybe they know it's bad, but they don't really know how bad it is. They don't really know how addictive it is, and they don't really know how their risk of disease increases.
My friend I mentioned above apparently thinks being a light smoker has no risk.
because you obviously cannot see immediate changes to your health
it's complicated overall, but people have hard time quitting pretty harmless habits like picking a nose or smth equally stupid
"equally stupid" is a big misnomer.
Omg I'm gonna kill somebody
15:12
@login_not_failed « Decent willpower » is the problem.
Fuck you Visual Studio
10
Picking your nose doesn't carry a 3x risk increase in your chances of lung cancer. (Or 20x if you're not just a light smoker)
* Opens project > Compiles > 0 Errors > Compiles again > 350 errors *
@Morwenn yea, you really have to be free from "I cannot" mentality
Are you kidding me?
15:13
e.g. someone in my family isn't in school, does not have a job nor friends where he lives and days are mostly long and boring. Having a decent willposer is such a situation is hard.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, most people starting think they can stop whenever they want to.
I would do one step ahead and even say that you need to smoke for some time to understand people better :D
also maintaining the conviction that quitting is a good thing
waaaaat
@Morwenn Even people who failed to quit seem to think that.
15:15
Opening files changes how many errors there are
@login_not_failed I do smole weed occasionally, but never smoked a simple cigarette .____.
Fuck me sideway
@Shoe clean build?
@R.MartinhoFernandes Not trying is easier.
@Shoe coming
15:16
@Morwenn it still fits my idea
@Morwenn I'm ~2.6 weeks in. Worst part about it is that my entire perception still seems off somehow.
lol
Clean Build > Compile: 1 error > Open a new file > Compile: 2 errors
@BoundaryImposition nah, it'll be fine
@BoundaryImposition I would use &&-qualified overloads, but it seems fine.
people do change over time
15:17
@R.MartinhoFernandes alright thanks gonna try it
@login_not_failed Thing is I can spend months without smoking nor feel the need to. I did have an alcohol consumption that wasn't good for me though, and lowering it was already hard enough.
@BoundaryImposition Good luck nonetheless :)
thought the take_str() function was a bit strange
I'd probably have written std::basic_string<char_type> take_str() && or w/e it is
don't like returning rvalue refs but I'm not an rvalue ref expert
Yeah ok
Web.config is seriously fucked up
@Morwenn the general experience of quitting your current activity to smoke is quite refreshing and can be abused later without smoking
@BoundaryImposition Right, that.
15:19
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh, hah, good
Wait, sorry.
Got a bit confused.
Hello, Cruel World!
@BoundaryImposition No, it's good.
I have a headache.
@Telkitty what is the latest word on your trip to yellowstone?
@login_not_failed That's the only thing I miss: not having a good excuse (for myself) to just go outside from time to time when I'm working. I often think about it, but never feel the urge, so I do it far less often than I could.
15:21
I feel like there should be some tradeoff involved with using this type, but I can't think of one
Ok, reverted back 0 errors
Anyway, I'm hungry. Later.
@BoundaryImposition Other than the inability to make it an input stream (efficiently), I don't see a problem.
@R.MartinhoFernandes mint
@Rerito Yeah, I have that. The best word I can think of for it is "transcendent".
@R.MartinhoFernandes If only people were nearly as good at actually being rational as they are at rationalizing...
15:25
OMG I love you VS
10
You were right I'm sorry
@Shoe We both know you're lying.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think in most cases it's less about "they don't know" and more about "they don't care". Most smokers start when they're teenagers. Cancer mostly happens when you're past 40 or so. I think for a typical teenager, that length of time is quite literally unimaginable (I'm pretty sure it was for me, anyway).
@Morwenn that's what a smoking habit breaks through: sometimes you just know that you have to smoke now, and walking outside of your current activity to rest becomes a natural thing
and I value only this precise point, everything else about smoking cigarettes is quite stupid to me
@JerryCoffin agreed, but when you start smoking in a more mature age (close to your 30s), you often know the risks and what you are doing — quitting here without a willpower is really hard
@login_not_failed yeah that's a big part of it
I have become extremely accustomed to walking out of the pub every 10-15 minutes and being able to get away from all the talky people. Now there's no excuse to, really
Sounds stupid but it's remarkable how it's those little things that become the habit
@login_not_failed Yeah, I don't know about that. I don't think I've ever known anybody who started smoking later than 20 or so.
15:34
@BoundaryImposition precisely! but you still can do it, now to just hang around still smoking people, to chat with them
@BoundaryImposition Hah, I do that because the noisy background of the pub makes my tinnitus insufferable and I need "silence" breaks once in a while.
@login_not_failed they smell
that's the other thing you notice really, really quickly
it's not like you weren't aware of it when you were one of them, but holy hell
Some people, however, seem to be much more able to quit than others too. My uncle used to smoke, and every time he was at a restaurant/bar/whatever that gave away matches, he'd get a book (even if he already had some). He had a whole drawer full of books of matches, and always joked that if he ever ran out of matches, he'd quit smoking.
depends of what you smoke, but usually it stinks really bad, ye
@JerryCoffin I'm not sure I would count a 30yo who started smoking as someone who knew the risks of smoking.
15:37
Then they moved, and without really thinking about it, his wife decided he'd gotten them all for free anyway, so she threw out the matches. When he found out he was out of matches, he actually quit--and as far as anybody knows he hasn't had a single puff since.
I mean, isn't starting to smoke proof that they clearly don't?
@JerryCoffin a really good story, I have to remember it now
Assume you know the risks and you decide to take the gamble. What's your payout, exactly?
@R.MartinhoFernandes making the meaning of 'knowing the risk to' circular here
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm not sure I would either--but I don't think I've ever even seen a borderline case where there was really even room for question. In ever case I've seen, they were so young they obviously had no clue.
15:39
@R.MartinhoFernandes some relief of stress during the day, or the illusion of it
sometimes it's exactly what you need
now I am playing pool 8 in our office instead :D became quite good at it
you socialize even more during pool sessions, and you can actually drop away your problems, when you are playing
@login_not_failed I'm actually curious how many people would make this choice when put in these terms.
@R.MartinhoFernandes at least I did it :) but I'm not a role model of an average man, because of my strange life choices
also I know at lest 4-5 people who started smoking in their mid 20s-30s
almost all of them sorted it out now, and dropped the habit
evening gentlemen
(Also, if you knew the risks of smoking, you would know that it leads to increased stress, so ~~)
@R.MartinhoFernandes i mentioned the illusion of a relief :)
15:44
@login_not_failed Yeah, but we all know 20-something year olds are idiots :D
I can say that now that I have been 30 for week.
while you are smoking, you can feel the relief of stress for a short time, one can even start walking funny if he smoked too much at once
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm 28 :( still stupido
anyway, my story of using cigarettes ended on dropping this habit, but I learned an interesting lesson
@R.MartinhoFernandes :P
Well VS wasn't really open to me. He kept being passive aggressive avoiding the real problem. It never told me "this is the issue". It barely hinted at that. This makes me think VS is not really that mature. A relationship where communication is an issue is bound to fail.
@R.MartinhoFernandes no
or by that logic you might say that people who jump off bridges think they'll be okay
@R.MartinhoFernandes brains aren't that simple
@BoundaryImposition Some do! :P
after all, many of us drink lots
that's hardly wonderful for you
doesn't mean we're [all] ignorant; but there's a perceived payoff
15:52
@BoundaryImposition a very important point
@BoundaryImposition When it comes to smoking, it seems like you have to either underestimate the risks or overestimate the payoff to make that choice.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Sounds about right
people are very good at fooling themselves
doesn't mean they intellectually can't get it right though
yolo
@BoundaryImposition Oh, I didn't mean to imply they're not intellectually capable. I meant they don't quite grasp the risks (now added misjudge the benefits) and thus draw the wrong conclusions.
I can totally accept that logically sound processes can yield "wrong" answers.
@R.MartinhoFernandes who draws right conclusions every time, consistently?
anyway, when I was in my early 20s I made a pact to quit by 30 (having read some entirely dubious article claiming that, at least statistically speaking, you might be able to recover if you do so, assuming no cancer etc)
seemed like a long way off until I realised I suddenly only had two days left :)
the rest was easy
15:58
you have to make assumptions, fail, and do better next time
@login_not_failed I don't see how that's relevant.
probably all nonsense but at least it made for a nice psychological milestone
@R.MartinhoFernandes making mistakes is in human nature
@login_not_failed import reincarnation;
@login_not_failed Yes, which is basically what I just said.
15:59
@R.MartinhoFernandes somehow I viewed through a wrong set of lenses — wrong assumption even here!
try a wider angle lens
16:09
@login_not_failed But the answer is, clearly, me.
16:29
huh, I can’t see the Windows shares on the network. I don’t have samba enabled, but I would have thought that was needed for me to serve shares to others, not discover the network, is that wrong?
@LucDanton what piece of your computer is going to interact with others' Windows shares?
that's kind of like saying that you don't need a router or a modem or even an ISP, because you're only going to be downloading things from the internet :)
disclaimer: I have no idea how Samba is configured/designed/integrated or what your OS is
@R.MartinhoFernandes: hmm no, I'm dropping the &&
I don't want to have to "move" the entire stream just to take its buffer. doesn't look right at the call site
take_str is explanatory enough
16:45
@BoundaryImposition Oh, right, I remember that.
I made the same decision somewhere for the same reason.
good again :)
I guess keeping String str() && would still be helpful, as it'd do moves without the caller having to think about it.
That way the caller doesn't need to explicitly take it if it already is an rvalue, which mimics C++'s behaviour.
meh, it doesn't work though :( segfaults. haven't got time to debug it right now.
lldb is letting me down.
Also, it's Friday 7pm, so I think I'll just tell lldb to stuff it and go home.
17:01
@R.MartinhoFernandes mm maybe
temporary stringstreams are pretty rare anyway
Yeah.
In my use case it's not unusual so maybe I'll add it back.
@BoundaryImposition btw, do you know this book? amazon.com/dp/0199678111 I am running a reading group with a bunch of friends on IRC and I think you could be interested. We're discussing ~half a chapter a week and we just started, so let me know if you want to join.
@R.MartinhoFernandes thanks! not really my thing tbh
although let me think about it
huh it works when I use the right ip weird
oh, str() is returning a ref
that's bad
17:09
(so much for "cba to debug")
Chimay blue is a tasty beer
What was the effect of world wars on technology innovation? (Kinda feel conflicted about WWII. It caused so much suffering, but it also triggerd so much innovation.)
mm op<< makes it crash anyway
meh.
ah well I'm out of time
@StackedCrooked A lot of innovation only happens when there's a dire need for it. And then once that goes away, people find ways to repurpose the new stuff they made.
@StackedCrooked How much value do you put on life? It is everything we have. I don't see any conflict in here. WWII was all in all very bad
17:21
Nothing happens when everyone is comfortable. Case in point: Intel
@Mysticial lol
@Mysticial The "end of the free lunch" changed things though.
@StackedCrooked I'm also a good example. It took me 2 years to go from scratch to get that stupid Pi record. Ever since then, it's been largely uncontested. And nothing has really happened in 7 years. (Granted, I have a less time than I used to and I watch a lot more Anime, but that's not the point.)
Hm. No challenges eh? :)
you broke the pi world record and yet people know you as the trains guy
:P
@Mysticial What made you want to beat that record?
think I need an xsputn override
17:29
@Horttanainen I didn't. I wrote a program for "other purposes". Once those "purposes" were accomplished, I realized that with some improvements, it would be used to break the pi record.
^^ Sound familiar?
"Develop something for a specific purpose during a war. After the war, you have this new toy which can be used for other things."
Yes yes I get it
As for WW2, I like the "computer" toy.
@StackedCrooked And for the Cold War, the "internet" toy.
Granted, I haven't entirely been sitting around doing nothing for 7 years. The state of-the-art (publicly available) bignum programs + algorithms have surpassed what I had back in 2010 when I did the Pi thing. But now I have some new toys to play with.
In WW2 the Germans also had a kind of mesh network built form radio stations.
^ This is really fascinating stuff.
17:44
@StackedCrooked How did you find that?
@Horttanainen See the video I just posted :)
I am wathcing it
But I always find shitty documentaries when I am looking for something to watch
Yeah.
That video was recorded in 2007 by GoogleTechTalks. There wasn't much else then.
I am sorry. I am bit drunk right now. I mean that the documentary is great and I am genuinely surprised that you were able to find such a good video on subject you were discussing on such a short notice
meh might just use strstream tbh
 
2 hours later…
19:29
Is your title missing an L, or a P? — Ed Plunkett 12 secs ago
exactly my thoughts /cc @Mysticial
@Borgleader lol
I believe "help" is banned from titles.
I'm desperately fighting my urge to post a botany comment there.
Oh dear, a major windows update is coming. I've got to batten the hatches and back up everything because they usually break things.
@Aaron3468 I'm not doing the creators update for at least another month when I have the time to sandbox it.
Creators update = Bulshit Update. and It looks Like my VM Enterprise Edition Windows is not elegible for this update
19:48
> I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because you should switch careers to botany.
well well well... .hello all
Hi. I'm Bob.
20:20
Yeah, definitely sandbox the update if you can. I didn't see anything appealing on the list of major changes except that they let me opt out of many information collection systems that are part of windows.
@ArunRaj After a greeting like that, I'm waiting for you to tell us how you plan to dominate the world.
@Aaron3468 The "let me opt out" is complete bullshit. They send everything they can.
The EULA even says that they will scan your personal files and send them to MS for the purpose of catching piracy.
they pinned Edge to my taskbar.
fuckers
@Puppy Can't you unpin it?
Let me have a false sense of security :(
I did
but that doesn't change the fact that only worthless shits would pin it in the first place
20:22
I unpinned mine. It didn't back.
it was my choice to use Firefox, I've made it, and they should fuck right off and suck it
Lol, I've all but hamstrung Edge. For a while, there was a process in windows that would automatically try to reset your default browser to Edge, music player to Groove, and picture viewer to (whatever it's called). I had to mess with regedit to permanently choose my own.
@Aaron3468 Just firewall it.
@Aaron3468 What was that? I never had that.
@Aaron3468 I've noticed it keeps asking me about video files with VLC again
It was in one of the first few updates to Win10 before they had the concept of letting people use the computer without microsoft programs. It usually showed up as "There was a problem with your default apps and they had to be reset" or something like that. I haven't had it come back since I looked up how to disable it. I did it on both my computers though.
20:26
"concept of letting people use the computer without microsoft programs"
lol
Windows 10 S is like that.
To be frank, I'm pretty happy with win10's backend. But the front end is starting to fill up with advertising and efforts to manage my settings as if I'm a child. Unless the next windows edition fixes that, I'm probably going to migrate to linux.
what it boils down to
is that I just don't trust Microsoft anymore
and I wouldn't use any of their programs given a choice
if there were any other operating systems worth shit, I'd use them
user image
13
Oh god. That's bad
it's utterly hilarious
@Puppy What an outrage. This calls for new elections. And a Wexit!
20:39
@sehe Wow. Shiny.
lol good job Google
@sehe nice!
@sehe Gotta say, the election kinda excites me, it's always nice to cast a completely ineffectual vote
@sehe Oh god, at first I was thinking "Preprocessing is kinda shady, but hey, clever solution to give Go generics!". Then I read "If you look closely those aren't angle brackets" and I knew it was a terrible hack.
@Puppy ... oh well. Umbrellas can be used to catch tear drops too
20:47
@xeo poke
@sehe mfw I read this :ᐸ
wp
> 1. Learn to code. 2. Make game. 3. ??? 4. Profit.
@Code-Apprentice It weirds me out how many people think like that. There are quite a few of my family who spend their life chasing get rich quick schemes.
And it is a reference to underwear gnomes
21:00
Huh, I did not know that. It's become a meme in its own right
Cept my memory was faulty. The original only has three steps
21:18
> TSes can be a place where language proposals go to die in endless debate
Looks like Bjarne is still butthurt because concepts didn't make it into C++17 x)
s/butt//
@Telkitty amateur hour. Try XML and XSLT books
Bjarnes concepts implementation is looking more and more like Knuth's P=NP implementation
Not seen that either
I was at a "Ask me anything" seminar with Knuth. On the question of whether P=NP he stated a firm YES.
The implementation might be tricky and complex, but in P.
@sehe The amount of time I have wasted on xslt and FO (I think it was an abbreviation for Formatting Objects) is ridiculous.
nwp
nwp
@CaptainGiraffe huh, we were debating a few days ago to go down that route too, but then decided against it
21:30
@nwp json is like jQuery, can't have enough json.
@sehe btw do you have a moment?
me, I'm still partial to plain text. "username = Captain Giraffe\n" will always fly in my book.
21:42
@Code-Apprentice >game programming
LUL
@Mikhail @Fanael, looks like a good portion of the stuff under NDA has been announced by Intel. But you'll need to read between the lines to get the gnarly details: top500.org/news/intel-consolidates-xeon-product-lines
@LucDanton I guess. Been procrastinating everything for as long as I did.. :|
@nwp It was one thing I was able to dispell firmly during my job interview. They wanted to know my advice. I was clear :)
Oh yeah. You're right about matched batches reducing the effective MTBF.
In general 'reshaping' pools is hard/impossible with ZFS. Growing all disks in a vdev works well enough.
I would not feel great about spooling all of my data over just to create a new pool. Then again, I'm very very used to running 2 pools with just mirrored vdevs. I don't have much experience with the "true raid" options (with parity)
Specifically, I assume your raidz1 vdev has 3,5 or 7 disks. In which case, mostly by definition you don't have "just matched disks" in there? If you worry about having two of the same batch, you could opt to zpool replace one of those new ones and mix them up I guess
just the 2 disks, and now I have another set of 2 (that I have yet to set up)
21:57
@LucDanton Okay. Are they matching capacity? Because you might just opt to put all 4 in a raidz2 set.
@sehe yup, four 2TB disks in total
I'd seriously consider raidz2.
I’m reading up on it
> The reason the industry has mostly moved to RAID6/Z2 now is that with larger arrays and bigger disks, the chance of an error occurring after a single disk fail, and before rebuild has finished, is reasonably high. Especially is cases where replacement may not happen automatically the instant a disk fails (such as with ZFS on FreeBSD currently).
will probably sleep on it, too

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