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user784668
00:01
user784668
/cc @Mysticial @Mikhail
user784668
That makes even less sense.
I need 19th century Romantic poems. I named the last computer Ozymandias, what do I call this one?
00:17
@Mikhail Excelsior
@JerryCoffin nice
@Mikhail prometheus
how about pandora's box?
user784668
Hi @Telkitty
hey Fanael
name it Pandora's box so police can confiscate it and give it to some girl named Pandora
@Mikhail wait, you name your computers after 19th century Romantic poems??
user784668
@JerryCoffin I guess Windows will only get an memcpy-based emulation of shadow paging, then.
00:37
@nwp it's the trade off between having your buttons/text boxes/images etc distributed in a inconvenient/unaesthetic ways or having gigantic, enlarged, low quality(because enlarged) items on the screen.
user784668
@Mysticial What's this?
Super SSD
@Mysticial Out of curiosity, what you get if you increase to, say, 4 threads?
You can do that?
user784668
00:48
@Mysticial Yeah, in settings.
@Mysticial <ctrl>+Q
user784668
@Mysticial Model?
user784668
@Mysticial I think I know what kind of SSD is this.
@Mysticial Nearly doubles the random throughput (and a nice little bump in sequential as well)--nice.
user784668
01:00
@Mysticial Is this a DRAM-based "SSD"?
ahahahaha
Model # is: F4-3300C16Q2-128GTZKW
user784668
@Mysticial So you measured a ramdisk, nice.
Ok, how many of you did I fool?
user784668
@Mysticial Exactly IOPS of a cheap HDD divided by 1000.
@Mysticial Oh--were we supposed to believe it wasn't a RAMdisk? I figured it was pretty obvious when it showed as only 116 GiB.
01:05
@JerryCoffin 116 GiB is approximately the formatted size of a 120 GB drive.
Or actually, it's a little more than that.
@Mysticial Do they still make anything like a 120 GB drive? I know there are still smaller SSDs than hard drives, but it seems like the smallest I've seen at all recently was 256 G (but maybe I'm just not paying much attention).
@JerryCoffin Yes they do, they're pretty cheap.
My laptop has a 120GB NVMe SSD.
And it's only a year old.
user784668
@JerryCoffin They do because not everybody has monies for a bigger one.
@Mysticial Oh, okay.
my PC is more than 5 years old
01:08
@Fanael Hmm...kinda reminds me of the flash card that came with my first digital camera. So small it wouldn't hold even a single raw-format picture.
too lazy to change to a better one
user784668
Wonder how Rust no mutable aliasing policy would handle that.
probably would take me a few days to set up the developer environment on a new PC
@JerryCoffin FWIW, that is primarily how I test my Pi program's swap mode.
I do the vast majority of them on ram disk. And then a couple large ones on the disk array.
01:13
@Mysticial Makes sense--limit the available RAM and simultaneously give it swap space that won't slow down the test much.
user784668
Oh, I found the answer.
user784668
It's "lol it won't".
user784668
Do it yourself and if you screw up you're fucked, because a tiny mistake in unsafe code can destroy all safety guarantees of "safe" code.
01:37
Well C++ won't help you much more in this case either (w.r.t guarantees)
02:03
C++ won't help you this time!
Like all the previous times and all future ones too
C++ is an exercise in futility, just like all your dreams.
At least my dreams don't compile down to a pit of template vomit
5
02:16
your dreams maybe
@jaggedSpire ...and yet here in cold, barren reality (well, not so cold or barren here in San Diego) I've managed to support myself and my family for quite a while, most of it by sitting at a computer and keyboard.
strange isn't it
Feeding your children 1 SFINAE at a time
@JerryCoffin San Diego was fairly barren last time when I was there ...
no tall trees, mostly shrubs
@Telkitty Where were you looking? There are lots of palm trees. They aren't like redwoods, but they're quite a ways from shrubs too. In fairness, even this time last year, San Diego was pretty barren, but this winter/spring we got enough rain to (at least temporarily) end the years-long drought we'd been having (and that's not just San Diego either--pretty much California in general).
02:32
Sydney got a month rain too
If I was superstitious, weird weather meant one thing: world is about to change. But I am agnostic, meaning that I don't know whether I am superstitious. So even with weird weather, brexit and trump winning election. Everything might just be coincidence.
how to code java in c++
9
please help
I hope that was a thorough introduction.
who the fuck is flagging
lower you're tone, innapropriate language is not allowed in rooms I am a part of
8
03:06
So you're the flagger?
I'm starring, FYI. Mostly because the question drew an audible laugh.
CausingCringeEverywhere
3
good, that can be a type of underflow
Ill be back tomorrow to introduce new type of underflow
@Mikhail Just a heads up, the flagged message is yours. And it's getting near that threshold. So if you get booted, blame the flagger.
I can only cast one counter-flag.
Thanks for the heads up, don't worry about it. The guy asked a poorly phrased, potentially technically difficult question (although what exactly he wants isn't clear), possible in two room at once.
03:12
@CausingUnderflowsEverywhere You're getting very close to a kick there.
@CausingUnderflowsEverywhere If that kind of languages offends you, then you really shouldn't use the internet.
@Mikhail On the bright side you're getting 30 mins of work done!
@EtiennedeMartel is it because of the poor grammar
@EtiennedeMartel If Mikhail gets banned, then we boot the troll.
@Mysticial Sounds fair.
If the problem is that "inappropriate language" is not allowed in the rooms he's part of, then we can fix that by making him not part of this room.
03:16
@CausingUnderflowsEverywhere Do you support UEFI? Because you're about to get booted.
Breaking: water wet. More at 11.
Once I looked at Uber, pay for drivers are pretty low unless special occasions, looked at airbnb as well - but leasing to good long term tenants save a lot of hassles
I guess it's about how you perceive your hourly rate
@CausingUnderflowsEverywhere well friendo have I got some news for you
739 pages
...
that's actually impressive
searching for shit when said by ___
33464 messages found
guis I think this room might contain some inappropriate language
I think I own about half of the n-word occurences in this room
03:31
looks like it's closer to a quarter
Don't make me count
you don't have to just compare the message count for when you said it versus when anyone did
Aug 2 '11 at 14:22, by 0A0D
Jesus, somebody get these programmers a shrink
Ah yeah, a quarter indeed. Disappointing.
> temporary materialization conversion
"Quick, Spock! Trigger the temporary materialization conversion from the bridge to Vega prime!"
03:36
I think eyes mod the ...f-word... might be the most common swear word in the chat history
@Shog9 hey, what's up?
waffle: 83 messages found
not really a swear word, but eh
ooh
MSVC has 6217 instances, and MCVE has only 98.
I'm going to pin that one on insta-binning badlet questions posted here
and also the horrific trauma MSVC visits on all its victims
Bug Fixes:
Fixed a bug that occasionally made ice too slippery.
but when will they fix the MSVC bug where it has too much ICE
@SpongyFruitcake is that SAB-envy I detect in your eyes
how diligent of them to fix that early on a Monday
03:57
@CausingUnderflowsEverywhere Inappropriate language isn't allowed here either. We just have a rather different definition of what constitutes appropriate language than many (and apparently you) do.
The language we consider most inappropriate is one that starts with a "J" and rhymes with ... "lava".
04:09
hehe
04:21
@jaggedSpire That's "hehe or sheshe", you sexist ... person.
@jaggedSpire That works too.
04:48
are you saying French is a sexist language?
@Telkitty It's western European, so clearly sexist whether I say so or not.
05:09
@JerryCoffin PHP?
@SpongyFruitcake I said language. PHP isn't coherent enough to qualify.
lavascript
@jaggedSpire rektscript
user784668
05:29
(performance) Function parameter 'fds' should be passed by reference.
user784668
Fuck you, cppcheck.
user784668
It's a pair of ints.
05:52
tagged_pair<tag::min(int), tag::max(int)>
function type abuse again
user784668
@LucDanton "Tagged pair"?
user784668
You mean, like, a struct?
you cannot abstract over the members of a struct like you can over that abomination
so, no
user784668
Abstract how?
you know like a crippled, nightmarish record system
I’m getting chills just thinking about it, let’s leave it at that
user784668
06:00
@LucDanton do it
@Fanael I’m just reading the Ranges TS
user784668
@LucDanton wait what, it's a part of ranges?
well of course, how else are you going to range
Every 2-3 months, I need to clear my email folder a little
had to cut down some 8 year old spams to free up some spaces
06:29
marginally improve compile times by replacing std::forward with static_cast
c++ library design best practices
user784668
@LucDanton But now it compiles in 1000.2 s instead of 1000.3 s!!!
@LucDanton lol what
@LucDanton late April First?
an std::forward<…>(…) call does mean e.g. having to look-up std::forward
user784668
@LucDanton You know, I actually wonder how much impact does that have.
06:36
@SpongyFruitcake language–library parity strikes again
user784668
@LucDanton A function consisting of nothing but 100k std::forward/static_cast: 0.500s/0.247s.
did you vary the types?
(you can generate a lot via int*, int**, … and long*, long**, etc. although 100k is a lot)
char(*)[i][j]… might be more systematic
user784668
Redid with varied types and code generation.
oh yeah code generation for the function template specializations, duh
user784668
06:45
That with -O3, -O0 is slightly slower because it's more code.
#define FORWARD(arg) static_cast<decltype(arg)&&>(arg) is clearly the way to go, case closed
user784668
@LucDanton Yeah, if you do nothing but forward.
huh, I barely have 1571 occurences of std::forward
user784668
IMO std::forward and std::move should be called _Forward and _Move instead.
user784668
Because we both know the committee wouldn't just accept forward and move as keywords.
06:52
that would break all the precious code that uses std::forward and std::move!
user784668
@LucDanton But it's 2005 or whatever, there's no std::forward or std::move.
user784668
Unfortunately, in this timeline, we have them as standard library features.
user784668
And they're not even available in freestanding implementations.
user784668
@LucDanton Hey, but did you benchmark the cost of macro expansion?
an editor macro is clearly the way to go, case closed
speaking of I actually have a macro to expand ident to std::forward<Ident>(ident) lol and likewise one for std::move
07:05
@LucDanton :thinking:
@LucDanton I giggled
char* nl = find(p, unreachable(), ’\n’);
Provided a newline character really exists in the buffer, the use of unreachable above potentially makes the call to find more efficient since the loop test against the sentinel does not require a conditional branch.
in other words, the example suggests using unreachable() for a situation where a result is known to be reachable
user784668
@LucDanton Is unreachable() a sentinel that compares as not equal with anything? If so, it's reasonable.
@Fanael yes
user784668
fuck
07:17
I’m having fun with the choice of naming and example
user784668
How do I acquire a std::lock_guard on an initializer list?
@LucDanton __builtin_unreachable()
the library solution is superior, get with the times
Is that really a proposed thing btw
Because it's not a bad idea
yes this is all from the Ranges TS
user784668
07:21
HAHAHA
4 mins ago, by Luc Danton
I’m having fun with the choice of naming and example
user784668
I just used NULL in C++.
obviously it should have been painted fast_forward()
why not just provide an overload of find without end iterator? ._.
duplication! a hack is better
07:22
I laughed
I’m just now getting to the part of the Ranges TS that is about ranges and my head already hurts
it’s two thirds in btw
2
[ Note: Most algorithms requiring [the Range concept] simply forward to an Iterator-based algorithm by calling begin and end. — end note ]
how exciting
No but seriously though, what was the though process behind "let's use a hack instead of providing a 2nd overload"
inb4 "committee"
how would I know? file an issue and/or submit a PR
user784668
@SpongyFruitcake What second overload?
user784668
find(p, '\n')?
user784668
That exists.
although keep in mind that find(Iter, Sent, Needle); is already overloaded with find(Rng, Needle)
user784668
It's for ranges, though.
so make sure your needle is never a sentinel and you should be good to go
user784668
@LucDanton So a range in ranges TS is basically a pair of (iterator, sentinel)?
07:32
@Fanael what where
user784668
1 min ago, by Luc Danton
although keep in mind that find(Iter, Sent, Needle); is already overloaded with find(Rng, Needle)
@LucDanton throw in a couple more layers of sfinae
12 secs ago, by Spongy Fruitcake
@LucDanton throw in a couple more layers of sfinae
@Fanael yes
user784668
@LucDanton That's awesome (hint: it's not).
Both begin(t) and end(t) are amortized constant time and non-modifying.
^so, pair selectors
for a SizedRange whose iterator type does not model ForwardIterator, for example, size(t) might only be well-defined if evaluated before the first call to begin(t).
yes, but it might only be well-defined if evaluated after. how is generic code supposed to know?
user784668
07:35
How do I acquire a std::lock_guard on an initializer list?
I want generators
user784668
Is making a private construtor that takes (std::lock_guard<std::mutex>&&, whatever args) a good idea?
@Fanael well, at least it’s private
Ven
Ven
@Fanael how are you guaranteeing order of exec
Creating the lock before that?
user784668
@Ven Yeah, the public constructor just delegates to T(std::lock_guard<std::mutex>(mutex), whatever).
Ven
Ven
07:42
@Fanael ... it's too late to lock then, tho
user784668
@Ven How so?
Ven
Ven
Because the initlist already got created?
user784668
@Ven But none of the members have been created yet.
The Tesla aggressively approached him on his passenger side, Mr Irvine said, "at very close range" and "within about a foot". The driver of the Tesla stared at Mr Irvine for 10 to 15 seconds and continued to follow him, the court heard.
...
Mr Irvine said he was frightened that the Tesla driver was going to do something to hurt him. He even reached a provisional conclusion that the Tesla driver might, as he said, be "mentally disturbed".
were you talking about a member initializer list?
user784668
07:44
@LucDanton Yes.
then I suggest the private constructor should take std::lock_guard<…> i.e. by-val, not by-ref
otherwise delegating constructors + auxiliary computations is indeed how you set up things before initializing your members in the mem-init-list
user784668
@LucDanton std::lock_guard is non-move though.
this is a like a free promo for Uber, I don't get these people, they always do the opposite of what they expect…
07:47
yes, but uber is like full of negative news nowadays
this still produces hype, which keeps uber's name afloat in media
@Borgleader I can finally view deleted posts *-*
@Fanael reference param sounds fine then, I’d leave a comment re: intended lifetime of the lock probably
08:17
@Telkitty What? Also, you know you can use the > to paste quotes, right?
@Morwenn \o/ Welcome to the 10k club! :D
@wilx Thanks :D
@R.MartinhoFernandes I bit the bullet and skimmed the Ranges TS. I don’t mind the views, but the iterators and ranges are as questionable as ever. which I suppose means I don’t care for the views either
I wish the was a question closing reason like "OP is too lazy." — wilx 10 secs ago
Oh! RAVE. How did I miss this in the 1.59.0 release notes. I'm going to have to play with this. Thanks for the hint! — sehe 11 secs ago
Ranked indexes. Who knew.
Wait. How did his answer - that doesn't answer the question - end up having 2 upvotes - while mine whithers away
He even blatantly reused my example code. Hmm.
@Morwenn congrats
08:32
@sehe I did upvote him because of your mention of it here :) never knew about these indices as well
@milleniumbug Thanks. Waiting without answering new questions paid in the end x)
@login_not_failed Yeah. Some of these things fly under the radar in the release notes.
@sehe there's just too many things in boost to consistently keep track of everything…
Of course. One can try though
@SpongyFruitcake lol
Ven
Ven
08:47
Hi
user1804599
oi
09:12
@sehe cool
09:28
I've read more about it now, and it seems a bit more mundane (I think it literally keeps indexes in an intrusive tree)
But it's still cool to have it drop-in available in Multi Index. It's a tool I only really use for productivity tasks.
I've moved away from it as it is too slow for "muh latency" sadly :( otherwise very useful
The node-based tree is kinda harmful for prefromances
@SpongyFruitcake Mmm. I think you mean in general, yeah that too. I was referring to the additional "rank" metadata for ranked_[un]ordered
09:34
I tend to use BMI to prototype things (the cost of changing representations is lower). But I almost often end up implementing a hard-coded version of the final approach.
Most often the insertion complexity is what necks it for me. All the index updating on each operation makes e.g. bulk loading unnecessarily slow.
For me it's the search.
user1804599
@sehe What is BMI?
Body Mass Index
@SpongyFruitcake Are you above 30 you fat slob?
I'll be 26 this year.
09:44
BMI I assume
… is like BMW, but has far lower class
@rightfold boost multi index, see context
user1804599
Ah thanks.
@SpongyFruitcake So young
user1804599
09:52
SQLite :P
Not bad either. Except for the impedance mismatch :)
user1804599
Impotence mismatch.
user1804599
You can store pointers to your objects in SQLite.
user1804599
Just memcpy them.
such wisdom
10:55
Some idiot complaining on the Unicode mailing list that the UN's list of countries in Europe differs from the European Union's list of members.
@sehe Python has this with \N{name}
Not sure what Perl's is doing, but Python's also takes into account aliases.
(Meaning "\N{PRESENTATION FORM FOR VERTICAL RIGHT WHITE LENTICULAR BRAKCET}" == "\N{PRESENTATION FORM FOR VERTICAL RIGHT WHITE LENTICULAR BRACKET}")
(Note the spelling in the last word)
U+EF670 UK_LEVITATING_IN_BREXIT
Oh, better example.
"\N{SYRIAC SUBLINEAR COLON SKEWED RIGHT}" == "\N{SYRIAC SUBLINEAR COLON SKEWED LEFT}" is true in Python.
@R.MartinhoFernandes how do these aliases work? i.e. if I explicitly ban somewhere one code point, would this ban automagically expand to all its aliases as well?
What
That question doesn't make sense.
Code points are not their names.
11:12
mkay, maybe my terminology is a bit rusty, but I worry about this from sql injection field of view
precompiled statements ftw
say, if I want to disallow all variations of «'», even some obscure implicit casts to it, do I need to list every variant name of anything closely related to «'»? I might not get the idea of these names correctly, that's why I am asking here
@R.MartinhoFernandes I meant to point at the broader tweet conversation actually
solving sql injections by banning certain inputs is the wrong way to go about it
never let inputs be interpreted as code
@R.MartinhoFernandes hard to miss BRAKCET
11:14
sql statements are code
@sehe Barnachewicz!
mhm, thanks
Bratekc!
@SpongyFruitcake U+EFUUU
@login_not_failed There's nothing to worry unless you eval arbitrary Python code.
@sehe U+FUEU UK LEVITATING IN BREXIT (cheers @SpongyFruitcake and @sehe)
10
lolzing
double lol @ credits :)
11:21
@login_not_failed Also, banning specific characters is just misguided in most contexts.
I was wondering about what place these aliases are taking, looks like it has nothing to do with parsing sql junk, for example
and it's good
They're just identifiers. U+0041 and LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A are two identifiers of the same character.
@R.MartinhoFernandes :D
@Morwenn Congratulations!
@sehe !gi So young
11:26
Some characters are more identifiers (aliases), either by virtue of having many commonly used names (e.g. solidus and slash), abbreviations, or by having been given names that are wrong (and the Unicode Name property is stable, meaning it cannot be changed).
yup, and these «bracket/brakcet» variations now make perfect sense
Yeah, BRAKCET was a typo that snuck in.
@SpongyFruitcake google image search?
(And the RIGHT/LEFT thing was an even more egregious mistake)
@sehe Yeah, duck duck go shortcut.
11:27
I figured.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I would imagine so :D
@R.MartinhoFernandes Talking politics now, I assume :)
21 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
"\N{SYRIAC SUBLINEAR COLON SKEWED RIGHT}" == "\N{SYRIAC SUBLINEAR COLON SKEWED LEFT}" is true in Python.
lol
@sehe this is a very sneaky idea
11:29
There's a lot of weird name mistakes in Unicode.
@Borgleader Well, thanks :p
thankfully there is no syriac sublinear colon which is actually skewed right
Nov 10 '15 at 9:12, by R. Martinho Fernandes
U+02C7 CARON is a hacek; "caron" is suspected to be a name invented by an early standards body but no one really knows.
@milleniumbug Right.
@SpongyFruitcake Just !i is enough.
@milleniumbug There's a pair that is actually with names somewhat reversed (so aliases can't fix this).
So, to encode a zarqa or a tsinor, you need to use ZINOR, and to encode a tsinnorit, you need to use ZARQA.
Ah, wait, found the pairs that are exact reversals.
LAO LETTER FO TAM and LAO LETTER FO SUNG are reversed. To fix this they made aliases, respectively LAO LETTER FO FON and LAO LETTER FO FAY. I hope these aliases make sense if you know Lao, but they just look wronger to me.
11:35
fuuuuuuun
@milleniumbug a painful condition
12:00
With all respect, let's not try to fix the lack of leadership and the weakness of management in your company with a major language change.
@Morwenn Hah. I said ~the opposite to a prospective employer after our initial job interview.
You proposed a minor language change?
lel
@StackedCrooked Hehe, not me :D
No. I suggested that rewriting the GUI in C++ was not a good idea.
12:02
Sounds like a good suggestion.
They had outsourced things and it got written in C#. They had trouble maintaining it (no doubt, it was suboptimal code, too). They blamed the tools.
Just some guy on the future proposals forum that wanted to introduce a new int*:= a, b; declaration style to avoid the int* a, b; problem.
I happily informed them I had written projects in VB6. Of which I can still be proud.
From that point, they basically made me out for a "Windows User", and "I wouldn't understand". Lol
How far from the truth they were, they will never understand.
Were the troubles located in the binding between the UI and the app? (I assume the app internals were C++.)
@sehe Haha, that even sounds like a terrible idea x)
12:05
Nah.
It would be basically static data exchange (documents in standards/proprietary text formats)
There was live data too, but the interface for that was RS/232 anyways
Doing GUI in C++ cannot be that bad. Almost anything usable these days is better than MFC ever was and that was usable even though PITA a lot.
nwp
nwp
@wilx you basically have to use Qt which makes any attempt at writing proper code futile
@wilx It isn't. But it wasn't going to solve their issue in any way.
@nwp Qt5 is less bad. But I agree
user1804599
12:15
Yay I am so happy.
user1804599
@sehe Well you're a tool if you do a new project in C#, and should be blamed.
:yawn: I could quip but I won't
It wasn't a new project. And they were trying to repeat the netscape thing. Not a smart move IYAM
user1804599
always rewrite bad code
nwp
nwp
@rightfold last time you argued that bad code is ok as long as it is total, referentially transparent and written in a hipster language
@nwp Use Boost.GUI
user1804599
12:20
I need a good testing tool for web services.
user1804599
Maybe Cucumber.
12:59
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