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ScY
6:05 PM
Is there a way to filter new questions based on my favorite tags? Right now, I have to manually click on each tag individually.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's like a dead letter office. In this case, the r is apparently the dead letter.
@ScY You can search for tags (and you can save a URL that includes the tags you search for most often, if you like).
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/stl%20or%20templates
 
ScY
@JerryCoffin That's exactly what I'm looking for, thanks!
 
6:32 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Man, that show was great. How dare they.
 
Xeo
aaaah
being able to throw up after struggling with a stomachache all evening is nice
 
Bleurgh.
 
I never understood what was funny about The Office. The humour there completely misses me and passes by. Zero contact. Like neutrino and matter.
 
nwp
obligatory xkcd neutrino poisoning link ... meh, too lazy
 
@wilx I honestly only watched the American version, so I couldn't say if the UK version is any good.
 
6:49 PM
yo nubberies
 
7:06 PM
So someone just sent me a "benchmark" of 1 trillion digits of Pi - all in memory. For fucks sake.
192 cores, 8 sockets Broadwell-EX. 6 TB of memory.
/cc @Mikhail
 
Xeo
Well step up your game
 
clearly the real reason DDR4 prices are jacked up
 
192 x 32GB DIMMs
That's 24 DIMMs per socket. I didn't know you can do that.
 
192 sticks of RAM? that can't really be considered to be "one computer"
just looks like 8 computers glued together
@R.MartinhoFernandes I noticed that one of our MPs tweeted. "Heard gunshots, hiding in PA's office under desk". How to hide, British style- tweet to everybody publically where you are
 
best thing to do is to tell the media
 
7:32 PM
@Mysticial registered ram?
@Mysticial LRDIMMs
 
Definitely, and ECC.
 
and apparently they cheaped out... as you can get 64GB per stick... holy moly
I just looked at prices... that must have cost at least 20k in memory alone
 
@sehe Strange. The file can be retrieved using coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/5a52a7ba510df124/main.cpp. But not with the normal coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/5a52a7ba510df124.
 
@StackedCrooked If coliru is being hosted by a Ryzen processor, can I try to crash it?
 
Xeo
lol
 
7:45 PM
It's too easy to crash it.
But sure.
It's good at automated rebooting.
 
I think like 3 people at work came to me to talk about the FLOPs crash today.
 
@sehe Coliru fetches the JSON-encoded contents. Apparently JSON encoding failed due to invalid UTF8.
@sehe restarting coliru somehow fixed it...
 
 
1 hour later…
Ell
8:51 PM
@wilx it's the awkwardness
And the self delusion of brent
 
@Ell Well, I do not find it that humorous.
 
9:03 PM
Geebus. Users are the worst.
One is asking why am I not supporting obsolete MinGW and not using pthreads on Windows instead of FlsAlloc.
 
9:26 PM
I am considering resuming work on Wide now that I might be able to avoid having to use MinGW
 
@Puppy How come?
 
@StackedCrooked 'have you tried turning it on and off again?'
 
apparently Clang finished (mostly) their MSVC integration
 
@wilx Nor do I--but I know people who find it utterly hilarious. It's hardly unique in that respect either (e.g., to me it bears a strong resemblance to Seinfeld).
 
@Mysticial Yeah, do you happen to get the motherboard model for the 6TB server? I'm trying to figure out if there is some kind of spliter device on the RAM sticks (like in the old SGI Big Brain machines) or if the mobo just has a lot of holes. The most I've seen would give you about 3TB.
 
9:40 PM
@Mikhail I don't. The validation file that the guy sent me shows it blank. IOW, WMI didn't pick it up. And there's probably at least 2 mobos linked together. I'm guessing 4 or 8 since I don't see how you can fit 96 DIMMs on one board.
The guy works for HP and it looks like this is a large HP server.
Including HP-branded memory.
HT is also off since Windows does not support more than 256 logical cores.
 
9:57 PM
@Mikhail at that scale it's probably an OEM custom, I know HP and Supermicro offer boards that do special daughter boards for ram
or it could just be this
 
Do you know the Supermicro ones?
@Mgetz 48*64=3072, so I know how to do 3TB. But how do you do 6TB?
 
@Mikhail dunno but the board supports it
 
One day
 
I don't know what this HP board looks like. Almost certainly custom. I'm not aware of any socket 2011-v3 that has 24 DIMMs per socket.
8 sockets * 24 DIMMs * 32 GB = 6 TB.
 
@Mikhail 48 * 128 GB DIMMs.
 
@JerryCoffin Except I can't find where to buy that
 
@Mgetz Two of those. But yeah, 96 DIMMs for 4 sockets will do it.
 
@Mysticial one of those will dry a coat pretty fast
and catch it on fire if you're not careful
 
@JerryCoffin holy crap
the memory of the beast
 
10:04 PM
@JerryCoffin damn...
 
@JerryCoffin Its 10x more expensive then a 64GB stick
 
And I'm bitching about 8 x 16GB costing 1k atm.
 
@Mikhail I suspect the chips are extremely low yield, and your likelyhood of getting a bad stick is pretty high
 
@Mysticial Indeed.
 
Or maybe its because HP is the only company that is making them?
 
10:06 PM
@Mikhail no they are probably the only one branding them
 
I'm slightly pissed off that AMD is gonna do an HEDT with 16 Zen cores in a few months. Because:
1. I need to spend more money.
2. It puts Intel in a position where we really may never see AVX512 - ever.
 
Yes
 
TSMC is probably making them
 
@Mysticial AVX is dead, even in HPC
 
@Mysticial HEDT?
 
10:07 PM
high end desktop
I don't think Intel has an answer for a 16-core Ryzen.
 
eh... depends, the majority of workloads are not that parallel
and it better have massive caches to support that many cores
like 32mb or larger
 
Actually a lot of workloads benefit from AVX, even trivial stuff like browsing the web where you need to do audio or image manipulation.
 
otherwise that thing is going to grind to a halt
 
There will be 12-core Skylake HEDTs. But that might fall short of 16 Zen cores for the parallelizable stuff.
Intel is gonna need to bring their Purley dies into the HEDT if they want to compete with the 16-core Ryzen HEDT.
Which hopefully means AVX512 for desktop. But I'm not sure if Intel can deliver that.
 
Or MS :-)
 
10:10 PM
IMDO both cores have a major flaw: the cache is just too damn small
you can't feed the beast very easily
 
@Mikhail I'm 50% convinced at this point that MS will never support AVX512 at all. So it'll be only a Linux thing.
Mainly because Intel is taking too long. And Zen is gonna force Intel to realign its CPUs away from vectorization.
 
@Mysticial Yeah, so unless 2017 is the year of the Linux desktop, until MS does AVX512 its not going to hit mainstream users.
 
I don't think 256-bit AVX is gonna go away. But 512-bit AVX is probably as good as dead at this point.
So if we're gonna see AVX512 in the desktop, I won't be surprised if it's AMD that delivers it in Zen2 or Zen3.
 
@Mysticial Maybe AVX512 instructions that run on a 256 unit.
 
@Mysticial I wouldn't be surprised if AMD delivers a multi-register version that uses existing registers
 
10:13 PM
@Mikhail Nah, there are others. Most of them only cost $1300-1500 or so.
 
10:33 PM
@Mysticial Why not?
 
@Puppy Microsoft seems to deny the existence of AVX512. The only places the word, "AVX512" shows up in any Microsoft domain are in forums where users have requested it. And not surprisingly they get completely ignored.
 
any speculation as to why?
 
A possible reason for that is that they're just lazy. Nobody will be using AVX512. And given that Intel keeps delaying it over and over again, MS had no reason to implement any of it. Now AMD is back and they're in a position to force Intel to realign itself in a way that probably means abandoning AVX512 altogether.
In which case AVX512 dies now. And Microsoft will never have to implement it.
Given that AVX512 is already in silicon for Skylake Purley (which Google has), I'm really hoping that Intel will be forced to put those chips (which they already have) into the HEDT to compete with AMD. That'll bring AVX512 into the desktop a bit earlier than expected.
But whether or not that will be enough to make Microsoft support AVX512 is a different story.
 
what is HEDT?
 
high end desktop
 
10:39 PM
so more-or-less, the ball is with AMD
if they push it, it comes, else it goes
 
Or maybe dark silicon is real? And intel can add it to their chips purely for the Lulz? (I personally don't believe in dark silicon)
 
Adding kernel support for AVX512 is easy. It's just saving the extra registers. Adding it to the compiler is much harder. But I don't think anyone gives a shit about their compiler in that aspect. So I'll let MS off the hook on that. But it won't be below Microsoft to intentionally deny AVX512 from the kernel (like they did with 80-bit FPU) because they, "don't like it".
 
Pushing the AVX512 stack is computationally intensive. My old Linux kernel book says don't use this instruction sets because it will fuck shit up in userland.
 
All I want at this point is for Intel to deliver AVX512 in Skylake HEDT and Cannonlake. And for Microsoft to add kernel support for it.
But I'm coming to the realization that none of those may ever happen given that AMD doesn't like the wide SIMD and they are in a strong enough position to realign the entire x86 market away from it.
 
I suspect AMD doesn't have room to add wide SIMD, from the photographs their chip has less than half the density of Intel.
 
10:44 PM
@Mikhail That and also the power issues. Intel has all that fancy AVX-throttling to deal with it.
Intel has dragged their feet too long with AVX512.
 
Well, they fucked up KNL. They probably thought a good desktop/server CPU would cannibalize that market.
 
@Mikhail Really? I thought they were both using 14nm
since Intel can't seem to make 10nm work
 
Okay on an unrelated note, I want to use a recursive mutex, is there any significant performance difference compared to the non-recursive one on Windows?
 
@StackedCrooked all hail the ruby train :)
Seriously maybe an update/environment change
@R.MartinhoFernandes no no no you don't understand. The numbers for e.g. Java/Python/TypeScript coincide because they only ever appeared together :)
 
11:02 PM
> static char input_line [MAX_INPUT];
because this never went wrong
 
static std::array<char,MAX_INPUT> input_line; Fixed :-)
 
@Mysticial doesn't that mean context switches are more expensive for all other code as well?
if more registers need to be saved/restored?
 
@orlp Yes. And that would be a reason why MS would resent AVX512.
Twice as many registers + the mask registers.
 
though border tightened because of Brexit
still terror attacks
 
I think the "correct" solution to the context switch problem is to simply not context switch that often. But MS likes to do it as often as possible.
 
11:09 PM
@Mysticial An easier solution is to just grep the binary and only do the push if those registers are actually used! The whole flag can be replaced with static analysis.
 
@Mysticial revolutionary
 
@Mikhail Doesn't work for dynamic or self-modifying code.
Self-modifying code can go fuck itself. But dynamic code is here to stay because of JITs.
 
@Mysticial I think its not possible to get Windows Driver Certification if you're doing dynamic/self-modifying code. We don't need a JIT in the kernel!!!
 
they need to do context switches for user-mode code too
 
The problem isn't in the drivers. Drivers are generally banned from using SIMD registers anyway (unless they explicitly call an OS function to save them). But you need it for normal code.
 
11:11 PM
JIT kernel: there to crash your drivers
 
nwp
@Telkitty and it already reached you!
 
@Mysticial Wait, does that mean they only get the x87 FPU stuff?
 
@Puppy They're generally banned from that as well.
 
so.. just no floats then?
 
Correct, integer only in drivers. If you want to use floats, you need to save the registers yourself.
 
11:12 PM
ouch
 
That's no longer possible with AVX since you don't know how large the register is and there's no instruction that saves "the entire length". So you must call an OS function which saves everything for you because the OS knows how large the registers are.
 
Or rather you pass a flag on Windows. Was there some kind of trapping mechanisms in Linux, if you happened to use that instruction it would actually save the stack for you?
 
god bless usermode ;p
 
The idea with drivers is that they're supposed to be fast on interrupts. So the OS doesn't save anything.
 
@Puppy What is a user mode context switch?
 
11:14 PM
@Mikhail Save the entire register state.
 
@Mikhail When a CPU core is running user-mode code and then switches to running some other code.
 
@Puppy But that has to go through the kernel right? O rare you talking about something like a co-routine?
 
Interrupts to drivers don't save anything. If the driver wants to use a register, it needs to save it manually. But you can't do that with the larger vector registers. So you're banned from using them unless you call an OS function so save it for you.
 
@Mikhail Yes. it does have to go through the kernel, but the kernel still has to do all the work of saving all the registers.
 
@Mysticial doesn't at least 1 register need to be saved, or otherwise the driver code couldn't move any data without losing some
 
11:16 PM
so if you grant user-mode access to AVX512 registers, you have to save and load all those registers.
 
@orlp I think there are a few exceptions.
 
I was just thinking, how the fuck can driver code work if they can't use registers?
 
At minimum I think the OS will set rsp to something relevant to the interrupt handler.
And once you have that set, you can spill anything you want to use.
 
@Puppy well let's be real here, windows drivers don't work :D
 
We need an extra level of indirection, so that if you actually use AVX512 it calls a trap that pusha them to the stack. Maybe replace all AVX512 with invalid instructions?
 
11:17 PM
@Mysticial yeah, once you have 1 register free you can move around the rest
 
or is it not possible to interrupt drivers at arbitrary points, but rather only at fixed points?
 
but you need at least 1 free register
 
@Puppy I don't think you can interrupt an interrupt handler.
 
@Mysticial By higher priority interupts
 
this is odd, I went to sleep with a normal phone but woke up with 'no sim' display
 
11:22 PM
@Mysticial I guess another solution is to certify certain process as "non-dynamic", and give them all the fancy AVX instructions.
 
@Telkitty If that's a problem for you, you should flag for moderator attention.
 
hey @ MystitBot
I c, u still not passed turing test
 
@Telkitty If that's a problem, then you should flag for moderator attention.
 
@Mikhail This seems like a lot of arsing around for little benefit
@Mysticial What's the deal with the spam replies?
 
And this why AVX is dead, not to mention the massive iGPU, which occupies half the chip. Or GPUs in actual HPC.
 
11:26 PM
@Mikhail I think the iGPU overhead is still too high atm. And programming for it not entirely trivial. At least I can't figure out how to use the iGPU.
The other thing is that Intel's iGPU is so large because they can deny consumers the high-core-count processors.
AMD might be able to force them to change that.
@Puppy Giving somebody a taste of their own medicine.
 
after years of reading Reddit, I finally realized a way to get (limited) immortality: western media should recognize you as a Putin's political opponent. If that happens, only Putin can kill you, and nothing else.
 
meh, just chain kick them if they are being a problem instead of spamming up the chat as well
 
so I came here to share this wisdom
 
@Mikhail this version is much better, I was about to flag it
 
11:29 PM
Thanks, its actually an animated gif
 
@Mikhail you might want to stop reading the internets. It's no good if you see baits everywhere.
Eiffel Tower in Paris turns off its lights in mark of respect to #Westminster terror attack http://bbc.in/2mUCkxi https://t.co/KPI72eq4wM
oh, apparently something happened recently
 
hello!
Can somebody tell me what is the most efficient haarcascade.xml for face detection? or can I find one for head detection? because sometimes you can't catch the full face of people.
 
no.
 
:)) you are nice :P
 
@Abyx Don't really know much about what happened.
 
11:35 PM
> Police officer Keith Palmer has died after being stabbed outside the Houses of Parliament
Four other people died, including attacker, and at least 40 others were injured
The assailant drove into people on Westminster Bridge before reaching the Houses of Parliament
The attacker was shot and killed by police
 
@Puppy can I ask why :))
 
no.
 
savage =))
 
@ProgIsMetal wrong room, please move along
 
@ProgIsMetal wrong place
 
11:35 PM
yes, this room is full of experts on haar cascades
 
Haar features as so 2000. If you're not tensor flow you're not doing CV
@milleniumbug (I'm actually an expert on haar cascades, but the question is kinda bullshit :-)
 
and xml? what is this 1990?
 
Then point me to the right direction :P. I just want to learn stuff.
 
@ProgIsMetal I can point you to the exit
 
could you remind me, did the Eiffel Tower turn off its lights after a Saudi gunship killed 42 refugees on a boat?
quite Orwellian btw
guess they were inspired by 1984
 
11:38 PM
how to find "most efficient one": find all of them, get the set of test pictures, check which one is most efficient
 
@ProgIsMetal here
 
@Abyx I hope your apps crash 10 days for being a dick to people. :)
 
@ProgIsMetal they crash all the time anyways
crashdumps are mess and I hate windbg
 
@ProgIsMetal question, say you see a bunch of people in programmer t-shirts (let's pretend those are a thing for a second) on the street
will you approach them, open your laptop, and then ask them what is the most efficient haarcascade.xml for face detection?
and then if they look a bit weird at you "who is this guy" and tell you they don't know or care will you then demand that they at least point you in the right direction?
 
Actually, the guy is looking for a pre-trained database for OpenCV, but judging by the phrasing he doesn't have any clue what he is doing.
 
11:44 PM
well they could say "no" and that's it. you don't have to be a dick with newbies.
 
@ProgIsMetal if you scroll up you can see that's exactly what puppy did
 
well is he your leader? he speaks for all? :))
 
obviously
 
all hail puppy
 
@ProgIsMetal no
 
11:47 PM
@Mikhail I had no clue what exactly he was asking, but even without knowing anything about it I already knew it was an XY problem because he was asking for a specific 'most efficient file.xml'
@ProgIsMetal an XY problem is where you ask Y but the actual problem you want to solve is X, and Y is only your partial and/or incorrect
there, you learned something
 
thx :)
 
@ProgIsMetal also as to why we're 'dicks', read the first section here: loungecpp.net/the-law/the-rules
we're really not that bad but not for people that come here, ask their question that solves their immediate problem without generalizing or learning anything from it, leave, and never contribute back to the room
 
Yes it's true. I understand that! Probably I would do that too. But maybe in the future I will come back and help other people or explain what I learned here to the people I know if they get the same problem.
 
@SpongyFruitcake std::byte really is imbued with the special powers of friendship and unrestricted aliasing though. that 'fix' is not small: it’s the whole point of the type and it’s a counter-example to what OP claims
 
@LucDanton I love the special pwoers of friendhsip
 

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